The Final Proof Of Oline Value
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Go look at the top ten offensive lines......
look at the offensive lines of the top ten qb's and rb's.....
You need the pieces in place to get the job done. And the big guys who lead the way are not to be ignored.
Even Jim Brown gave all the credit in the world to his offensive line. The Browns will draft a RT in the third or fourth rounds, I thinkl.
Or, they will sign one.... just fix the problem over there. Add elite wr, killer rb, rt, and watch the Browns offense starting kicking arse..
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Go look at the top ten offensive lines......
look at the offensive lines of the top ten qb's and rb's.....
You need the pieces in place to get the job done. And the big guys who lead the way are not to be ignored.
Even Jim Brown gave all the credit in the world to his offensive line. The Browns will draft a RT in the third or fourth rounds, I thinkl.
Or, they will sign one.... just fix the problem over there. Add elite wr, killer rb, rt, and watch the Browns offense starting kicking arse..
Go look at the top ten offensive lines......
look at the offensive lines of the top ten qb's and rb's.....
You need the pieces in place to get the job done. And the big guys who lead the way are not to be ignored.
Even Jim Brown gave all the credit in the world to his offensive line. The Browns will draft a RT in the third or fourth rounds, I thinkl.
Or, they will sign one.... just fix the problem over there. Add elite wr, killer rb, rt, and watch the Browns offense starting kicking arse..
You are undeniably right about a line being important. I'm just saying not important enough to use 5 1st and 2nd round picks on them. In my perfect football world the LT would be the only 1st rounder taken. Center and possibly RT could be 2nd round. Then the guards would be 3rd at the highest.
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Virgils root beer? Never heard of it. Now I'm missing out. dammit. I ususally like Barq's, or Frosttop. Now I have to try Virgils...
You said:
"I got your point, you equated a good oline with winning playoff games"
Not by itself, for cryin out loud. I also listed Thomas, wr, drafted in the first round. Their other wr was a 3rd rounder.
I've just been saying, that you don't have to have an elite qb to win games, but you have to have that surrounding cast,
The offensive line for the Browns needs a RT. Desperately. They need an elite, burner, star wr who catches everything thrown to him.
And a bigtime rb. They don't have to be first round picks. But they have to be able to do what the offense needs them to do.
The Browns, most years since 99, ignored the offensive line badly in drafts. And all the losing seasons show it.
Can run, can't pass protect. The wr's, qb, and rb's must have the blocking. And Denver had it. Go back and watch how much time
Tebow had on a whole lot of his throws.
Look at the top 10 RB's and see how many of those teams are in the playoffs, then go look at the top 10 QB's and see how many of them are in the playoffs. I think it's something like 9 out of the 12 playoff teams have top 10 QB's. With RB's, I think it's something like 4 of the 12 playoff teams have top 10 running backs. Same goes for wide outs, most of the playoff teams don't have top WR's. The glue that binds the elite teams are in fact, elite QB's.
And I watched most of the game, as much of the game as I could watch over my fiances grandmother house with her 19in SD tv with rabbit eras
I know Tebow had time. I could be wrong, I don't know the Steelers official game plan, but if I had to guess I'd say that they were purposely not being overly aggressive in order to contain Tebow. If you had a choice of letting Tebow beat you with his arm or legs, you choose his arm.jparsh said:
Look at the top 10 RB's and see how many of those teams are in the playoffs, then go look at the top 10 QB's and see how many of them are in the playoffs. I think it's something like 9 out of the 12 playoff teams have top 10 QB's. With RB's, I think it's something like 4 of the 12 playoff teams have top 10 running backs. Same goes for wide outs, most of the playoff teams don't have top WR's. The glue that binds the elite teams are in fact, elite QB's.
I would argue that only 5 playoff teams have elite QBs: Packers, Patriots, Giants, Steelers, and the Saints. Flacco is the only other QB (that isn't elite) that has even won a playoff game (Ok Yates did this past weekend but someone had to win).
Every team needs a franchise QB to win a Superbowl with few exceptions. But to give all the credit to the QBs and ignore the great WRs, RBs, and OL on these teams is pretty ridiculous. You think most playoff teams have only a great QB and no supporting cast (and this is not including defensive playmakers)?
Packers: Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, and Jermichael Finley (plus OL is full of 1st and 2nd rounders)
Saints: Marques Colston, Jimmy Graham, Robert Meachem, and Sproles (plus a very good OL)
Patriots: Rob Gronkowski, Wes Welker, and Aaron Hernandez (and outstanding offensive line)
Ravens: Anquan Boldin, Torrey Smith, Ray Rice and Vonta Leach
Giants: Hakeem Nicks, Victor Cruz, and Jake Ballard (Jacobs and Bradshaw help set up playaction)
Steelers: Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown, and Rashard Mendenhall (Isaac Redman is great backup RB)
Texans: Andre Johnson, Arian Foster, and Ben Tate
Lions: Calvin Johnson, Brandon Pettigrew, and Titus Young
Falcons: Roddy White, Tony Gonzalez, Julio Jones, and Michael Turner
Bengals: A.J. Green and Jermaine Gresham
49ers: Vernon Davis, Frank Gore, and Michael Crabtree
Broncos: Willis McGahee and DeMaryius Thomas
And just for fun..
Cleveland: Greg Little? and half of an offensive line.
Do you still actually believe RG3 or any other QB could have success with that kind of supporting cast?
I think you should reexamine your theory on QBs..
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One thing to remember too guys. Our offenseive play calling did not have us stretching the field very much. Teams could blitz because we would throw 5 yards on 3rd and 8. Pats are constantly stretching D's. When the Defense is kept honest, that helps the Offensive line as well because a defense can't send as many people.
Pittsburgh DC lost that game for them just as much as Tebow's exectution of the play by the way.
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Go look at the top ten offensive lines......
look at the offensive lines of the top ten qb's and rb's.....
You need the pieces in place to get the job done. And the big guys who lead the way are not to be ignored.
Even Jim Brown gave all the credit in the world to his offensive line. The Browns will draft a RT in the third or fourth rounds, I thinkl.
Or, they will sign one.... just fix the problem over there. Add elite wr, killer rb, rt, and watch the Browns offense starting kicking arse..
Go look at the top ten offensive lines......
look at the offensive lines of the top ten qb's and rb's.....
You need the pieces in place to get the job done. And the big guys who lead the way are not to be ignored.
Even Jim Brown gave all the credit in the world to his offensive line. The Browns will draft a RT in the third or fourth rounds, I thinkl.
Or, they will sign one.... just fix the problem over there. Add elite wr, killer rb, rt, and watch the Browns offense starting kicking arse..
So why can't we fill 3 spots and get a franchise QB in the same draft?
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It's late, maybe you're drunk or something? Besides...Thomas 1st round pick, Mack 1st round pick, Steinbach, early 2nd round pick. The Browns have high draft pick linemen. It hasn't done shit for them. And as much as I hate the Steelers, a healthy Pittsburgh team beats the hell out of the Broncos. Even with that fabulous offensive line they have there in Denver. And come back after this weekend and tell me if the team with the great line or great QB are continuing on in the playoffs. jparsh
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LOL. No, I don't get drunk on root beer. @@ But guard dawg heard coyotes off in the distance, and woke me up barking like crazy, so I rebuilt the fire in
the fireplace, and got online. Of course the Browns have some high draft picks on their oline. The point is, offensive RIGHT GUARD and RIGHT TACKLE.
It doesn't work well with only one half of the oline working.
The point is, Tebow TEBOWed the DEFENSE of the squeelers, not the offense with injuries. The defense was fine, despite one safety not playing. The point is,
the Bronco's oline handled the squeeler defense, after getting themselves into the playoffs.... with a qb that most figure is NOT "elite" by any stretch.
Miss the point if you want to, but it's true. Even a TEBOW can play an excellent defense and win, with the oline established to do the job.
Or, do you think Tebow is Peyton?
What kind of rootbeer? I'll only drink Virgils, the best rootbeer you can buy.
I got your point, you equated a good oline with winning playoff games. I disagreed with you. A good oline is nice, no doubt but it's not the end all be all. And I also said that the Steelers would have won the game if not for some injuries. Would you have still listed off a group of high round offensive linemen if the Broncos lost but managed to put up 20 points? Everything comes down to winning and losing, so I doubt this would even be a thread if the Broncos lost the game 30-20.
We need playmakers, at the QB position and WR position. RB's are a dime a dozen, just plug in a solid guy and you'll be fine. We've already got a few good TE's. And our line started playing better at the end of the year. I suspect that a single change at RT should equal a pretty damn good line for the Browns.
jparsh said:
What kind of rootbeer? I'll only drink Virgils, the best rootbeer you can buy.
I got your point, you equated a good oline with winning playoff games. I disagreed with you. A good oline is nice, no doubt but it's not the end all be all. And I also said that the Steelers would have won the game if not for some injuries. Would you have still listed off a group of high round offensive linemen if the Broncos lost but managed to put up 20 points? Everything comes down to winning and losing, so I doubt this would even be a thread if the Broncos lost the game 30-20.
We need playmakers, at the QB position and WR position. RB's are a dime a dozen, just plug in a solid guy and you'll be fine. We've already got a few good TE's. And our line started playing better at the end of the year. I suspect that a single change at RT should equal a pretty damn good line for the Browns.
What I think is that for the Browns to win they need a good offensive line, and a good QB. Also good WRs and RBs. Also, they should have a good defensive line, linebackers, and defensive backs. And don't forget the kicker, punter, and kick returners.
But, more importantly than all that....they need a good coach. You think they can find one somewhere?
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I'd pull the trigger on Kalil if he's there at 4. Bookend Tackles to seal the edge for McCoy to make plays(to give him a change to make plays) would do wonders for the kid. Even top QB's like Brady and Brees can get happy feet when the Oline crumbles in the face of a heavy rush. QB's make untimely decisions and force balls into coverages when they don't have enough time to go through their reads and progressions.
...put it this way, if you know that you have a juggernaut of a DE and a Linebacker coming from the right and you need 2 seconds for your WR to beat his man but you know that you're only afforded 1.5 seconds before you're sacked or maimed and your WR has questionable hands and your star RB is nursing a bottle of milk on the sidelines... OH! I know the answer put fresh meat in at QB and lets see what happens!!!
I think that is the definition of insanity right there, sooner or later even the blind man has to "see" that we need a FRANCHISE RT... don't hate the player, hate the game...
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I'd pull the trigger on Kalil if he's there at 4. Bookend Tackles to seal the edge for McCoy to make plays(to give him a change to make plays) would do wonders for the kid. Even top QB's like Brady and Brees can get happy feet when the Oline crumbles in the face of a heavy rush. QB's make untimely decisions and force balls into coverages when they don't have enough time to go through their reads and progressions.
...put it this way, if you know that you have a juggernaut of a DE and a Linebacker coming from the right and you need 2 seconds for your WR to beat his man but you know that you're only afforded 1.5 seconds before you're sacked or maimed and your WR has questionable hands and your star RB is nursing a bottle of milk on the sidelines... OH! I know the answer put fresh meat in at QB and lets see what happens!!!
I think that is the definition of insanity right there, sooner or later even the blind man has to "see" that we need a FRANCHISE RT... don't hate the player, hate the game...
I'd pull the trigger on Kalil if he's there at 4. Bookend Tackles to seal the edge for McCoy to make plays(to give him a change to make plays) would do wonders for the kid. Even top QB's like Brady and Brees can get happy feet when the Oline crumbles in the face of a heavy rush. QB's make untimely decisions and force balls into coverages when they don't have enough time to go through their reads and progressions.
...put it this way, if you know that you have a juggernaut of a DE and a Linebacker coming from the right and you need 2 seconds for your WR to beat his man but you know that you're only afforded 1.5 seconds before you're sacked or maimed and your WR has questionable hands and your star RB is nursing a bottle of milk on the sidelines... OH! I know the answer put fresh meat in at QB and lets see what happens!!!
I think that is the definition of insanity right there, sooner or later even the blind man has to "see" that we need a FRANCHISE RT... don't hate the player, hate the game...
You don't draft a RT with the 4th pick. Kalil isn't looking to play RT, or get a RT's contract.
I agree we need a RT, but Andrew Datko in the second is more than suitable, and we don't "waste" the #4 pick.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
I'd pull the trigger on Kalil if he's there at 4. Bookend Tackles to seal the edge for McCoy to make plays(to give him a change to make plays) would do wonders for the kid. Even top QB's like Brady and Brees can get happy feet when the Oline crumbles in the face of a heavy rush. QB's make untimely decisions and force balls into coverages when they don't have enough time to go through their reads and progressions.
...put it this way, if you know that you have a juggernaut of a DE and a Linebacker coming from the right and you need 2 seconds for your WR to beat his man but you know that you're only afforded 1.5 seconds before you're sacked or maimed and your WR has questionable hands and your star RB is nursing a bottle of milk on the sidelines... OH! I know the answer put fresh meat in at QB and lets see what happens!!!
I think that is the definition of insanity right there, sooner or later even the blind man has to "see" that we need a FRANCHISE RT... don't hate the player, hate the game...
You don't draft a RT with the 4th pick. Kalil isn't looking to play RT, or get a RT's contract.
I agree we need a RT, but Andrew Datko in the second is more than suitable, and we don't "waste" the #4 pick.
You don't draft a RT with the 4th pick. Kalil isn't looking to play RT, or get a RT's contract.
I agree we need a RT, but Andrew Datko in the second is more than suitable, and we don't "waste" the #4 pick.
Okay, okay... I get it, I'd HATE to HAVE to pick a LT to go to RT with the number 4 overall pick of the draft. It's just, if the guy is another Joe Thomas we're gonna need that talent when Eric retires... I'd hate to be left with just Joe Thomas and Alex Mack because then I feel like we're "wasting" Joe Thomas AND that pick we used on him. JT and Mack does not a line make. I know what your saying though I just cannot bear the thought of another season watching the Rightside get slaughtered game after game.
Here's an idea!!! Let's get a Lefthanded QB so we can move Joe Thomas to the Rightside and then we could at least complain about the horrid leftside for awhile, that would be refreshing!
Seriously though, if you think Donnie Darko can hold out on the Right side and be a stable stud for our Oline for the next 7 years I'm all for getting him and using that #4 pick on a playmaker, for sure!
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I'd pull the trigger on Kalil if he's there at 4. Bookend Tackles to seal the edge for McCoy to make plays(to give him a change to make plays) would do wonders for the kid. Even top QB's like Brady and Brees can get happy feet when the Oline crumbles in the face of a heavy rush. QB's make untimely decisions and force balls into coverages when they don't have enough time to go through their reads and progressions.
...put it this way, if you know that you have a juggernaut of a DE and a Linebacker coming from the right and you need 2 seconds for your WR to beat his man but you know that you're only afforded 1.5 seconds before you're sacked or maimed and your WR has questionable hands and your star RB is nursing a bottle of milk on the sidelines... OH! I know the answer put fresh meat in at QB and lets see what happens!!!
I think that is the definition of insanity right there, sooner or later even the blind man has to "see" that we need a FRANCHISE RT... don't hate the player, hate the game...
You don't draft a RT with the 4th pick. Kalil isn't looking to play RT, or get a RT's contract.
I agree we need a RT, but Andrew Datko in the second is more than suitable, and we don't "waste" the #4 pick.
You don't draft a RT with the 4th pick. Kalil isn't looking to play RT, or get a RT's contract.
I agree we need a RT, but Andrew Datko in the second is more than suitable, and we don't "waste" the #4 pick.
Lookie here, we agree on something.
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Actually the play calling by the Steelers DC was pathetic. Also, if BR was not injured they would have probably won the game. If Kyle Orton had played that game instead of TT the same O Line would not have guaranteed the Broncos a victory.
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eh, forget the Oline... just get Trent Richardson and you could put "crash test dummies" on the right side and he'd still run wild!
eh, forget the Oline... just get Trent Richardson and you could put "crash test dummies" on the right side and he'd still run wild!
Did you watch the national championship game? Dude can't run worth a crap unless he has a hole the size of Ohio to run through.
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jparsh said:
Did you watch the national championship game? Dude can't run worth a crap unless he has a hole the size of Ohio to run through.
Keep telling yourself that.
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jparsh said:
Did you watch the national championship game? Dude can't run worth a crap unless he has a hole the size of Ohio to run through.
Keep telling yourself that.
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jparsh said:
Did you watch the national championship game? Dude can't run worth a crap unless he has a hole the size of Ohio to run through.
Keep telling yourself that.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
The Steelers O line played just as good and produced just as many points in a regulation football game as did the Bronco's line.
The difference in ALL championship games as it was in this one.............. IS THE QUARTERBACK.
The oline had absolutely nothing to do with the winning play, AND most of TEBOW's BIG plays had nothing to do with the OL. He made most of his plays while being forced out of the pocket.
The final play he released the ball in less than 2.5 seconds. Even your homo ass could give him that much time.
QUICK RELEASE and ACCURATE PASSING COMBINED WITH WR SPEED. OL HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
Skilled players won. End of discussion.
Would you honestly trade, even up, the Steelers "skill players" for those of the Broncos?
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
The Steelers O line played just as good and produced just as many points in a regulation football game as did the Bronco's line.
The difference in ALL championship games as it was in this one.............. IS THE QUARTERBACK.
The oline had absolutely nothing to do with the winning play, AND most of TEBOW's BIG plays had nothing to do with the OL. He made most of his plays while being forced out of the pocket.
The final play he released the ball in less than 2.5 seconds. Even your homo ass could give him that much time.
QUICK RELEASE and ACCURATE PASSING COMBINED WITH WR SPEED. OL HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
Skilled players won. End of discussion.
The Stoolers had help. The lateral that was ruled an incomplete pass could have been a 14 point swing in the other direction.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
The Steelers O line played just as good and produced just as many points in a regulation football game as did the Bronco's line.
The difference in ALL championship games as it was in this one.............. IS THE QUARTERBACK.
The oline had absolutely nothing to do with the winning play, AND most of TEBOW's BIG plays had nothing to do with the OL. He made most of his plays while being forced out of the pocket.
The final play he released the ball in less than 2.5 seconds. Even your homo ass could give him that much time.
QUICK RELEASE and ACCURATE PASSING COMBINED WITH WR SPEED. OL HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
Skilled players won. End of discussion.
c'mon man....you know deep down in your heart that's not how they won.
they won because of the grace of GOD!!!
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