If We Only Hadn't Traded Down Last Year
-
Point? I don't see it.
Cleveland is the beneficiary of Atlanta's mistake. I dare you to use the draft pick to improve your team.
Endymion said:
Point? I don't see it.
Cleveland is the beneficiary of Atlanta's mistake. I dare you to use the draft pick to improve your team.
The point is, dicktits, the Browns actually made a good decision on draft day...finally.
-
the point is right there in front of your face.
a team isn't made by one player. the giants won with a team effort. their pass rush is dominant and kept ryan guessing and scrambling all day long. they have a good running game. their qb is top ten. their receivers are decent with speed.
sell your soul for that first pick doesn't always put you over the top as i'm sure the falcons thought jones would do.
-
In 2010 the Browns had a 5-11 record and in 2011 you dropped to 4-12. Trading your draft pick did not improve your team in 2011 (same as with the Falcons).
Based upon rookie 1st rounder performance, Phil Taylor (DT) was rated around #166, with 59 tackles, 1 forced fumble, and 4 sacks. (Granted, defensive players aren't given positional ratings like offensive players). Phil Taylor appears to be a decent pick-up, but he's not demonstrated that he's an elite defensive player.
Julio Jones, was ranked #25 in recievers for 2011, with 54 receptions for 959 yards and 8 TDs. Those are some impressive stats for a rookie. You may end up taking a WO with your #1 pick this year. Will he be as good as Julio was?
The one factor you have not considered is that the Falcons may have had an even worse record this year w/out Julio Jones.
In summary, you haven't proved trading down was a benefit to your organization and really you haven't proven that's it hurt Altanta particularly badly. Points wise on the draft grading scale, you really haven't traded the equivalent value for your #6 pick to Atlanta, as they didn't completely fall apart this year. Lastly, if another team isn't willing to gamble you couldn't have gotten extra picks, so bashing Atlanta for trading with you is akin to biting the hand that feeds.
-
It did not improve the team for 2011 because the pick was traded for a first rounder in 2012 you dipshit. Are you Retarded or what.
:neutral_face: -
Another point,
You could be going into next year with Jones and RG3. Wouldn't that be more exciting that the propects you are facing now?
-
he's a stooler fan so yes he is Retarded.
-
It did not improve the team for 2011 because the pick was traded for a first rounder in 2012 you dipshit. Are you Retarded or what.
It did not improve the team for 2011 because the pick was traded for a first rounder in 2012 you dipshit. Are you Retarded or what.
Who is more Retarded, the Retard or the one who cries Retard? I'm not even a fan of your team, yet I know you got Atlanta's 21th pick in the 2011 draft, along with their 1st rounder for 2012 and some other draft picks. Seriously though, pumpkin the fact that you can even type amazes me.
-
Yes, because I type stupid things about a first round pick in 2012 improving the Browns in 2011.
-
In 2010 the Browns had a 5-11 record and in 2011 you dropped to 4-12. Trading your draft pick did not improve your team in 2011 (same as with the Falcons).
Based upon rookie 1st rounder performance, Phil Taylor (DT) was rated around #166, with 59 tackles, 1 forced fumble, and 4 sacks. (Granted, defensive players aren't given positional ratings like offensive players). Phil Taylor appears to be a decent pick-up, but he's not demonstrated that he's an elite defensive player.
Julio Jones, was ranked #25 in recievers for 2011, with 54 receptions for 959 yards and 8 TDs. Those are some impressive stats for a rookie. You may end up taking a WO with your #1 pick this year. Will he be as good as Julio was?
The one factor you have not considered is that the Falcons may have had an even worse record this year w/out Julio Jones.
In summary, you haven't proved trading down was a benefit to your organization and really you haven't proven that's it hurt Altanta particularly badly. Points wise on the draft grading scale, you really haven't traded the equivalent value for your #6 pick to Atlanta, as they didn't completely fall apart this year. Lastly, if another team isn't willing to gamble you couldn't have gotten extra picks, so bashing Atlanta for trading with you is akin to biting the hand that feeds.
Endymion said:
In 2010 the Browns had a 5-11 record and in 2011 you dropped to 4-12. Trading your draft pick did not improve your team in 2011 (same as with the Falcons).
Based upon rookie 1st rounder performance, Phil Taylor (DT) was rated around #166, with 59 tackles, 1 forced fumble, and 4 sacks. (Granted, defensive players aren't given positional ratings like offensive players). Phil Taylor appears to be a decent pick-up, but he's not demonstrated that he's an elite defensive player.
Julio Jones, was ranked #25 in recievers for 2011, with 54 receptions for 959 yards and 8 TDs. Those are some impressive stats for a rookie. You may end up taking a WO with your #1 pick this year. Will he be as good as Julio was?
The one factor you have not considered is that the Falcons may have had an even worse record this year w/out Julio Jones.
In summary, you haven't proved trading down was a benefit to your organization and really you haven't proven that's it hurt Altanta particularly badly. Points wise on the draft grading scale, you really haven't traded the equivalent value for your #6 pick to Atlanta, as they didn't completely fall apart this year. Lastly, if another team isn't willing to gamble you couldn't have gotten extra picks, so bashing Atlanta for trading with you is akin to biting the hand that feeds.
How is it fair that you are comparing Phil Taylor to all defensive players in the league while Jones is only being compared to WR's. That makes no sense. Secondly it is still to be seen if the trade has worked out for the Browns, but it is clear the trade has NOT worked out for the Falcon's because of the fact that they made this move to put in, what they thought was, the last piece of the puzzle. This was a move that they thought would send them to the supper bowl. It didn't, they failed in their goal for the trade.
EDIT: By comparing Taylor to ALL DT (note as a DT not all defensive linemen) in the NFL this season he ranks the following.
3rd overall in Combined Tackles, and is tied for 9th in sacks. Out of rookie DTs he is 1st in combined tackles and 2nd in sacks. He should make all rookie team easily.
-
In 2010 the Browns had a 5-11 record and in 2011 you dropped to 4-12. Trading your draft pick did not improve your team in 2011 (same as with the Falcons).
Based upon rookie 1st rounder performance, Phil Taylor (DT) was rated around #166, with 59 tackles, 1 forced fumble, and 4 sacks. (Granted, defensive players aren't given positional ratings like offensive players). Phil Taylor appears to be a decent pick-up, but he's not demonstrated that he's an elite defensive player.
Julio Jones, was ranked #25 in recievers for 2011, with 54 receptions for 959 yards and 8 TDs. Those are some impressive stats for a rookie. You may end up taking a WO with your #1 pick this year. Will he be as good as Julio was?
The one factor you have not considered is that the Falcons may have had an even worse record this year w/out Julio Jones.
In summary, you haven't proved trading down was a benefit to your organization and really you haven't proven that's it hurt Altanta particularly badly. Points wise on the draft grading scale, you really haven't traded the equivalent value for your #6 pick to Atlanta, as they didn't completely fall apart this year. Lastly, if another team isn't willing to gamble you couldn't have gotten extra picks, so bashing Atlanta for trading with you is akin to biting the hand that feeds.
Endymion said:
In 2010 the Browns had a 5-11 record and in 2011 you dropped to 4-12. Trading your draft pick did not improve your team in 2011 (same as with the Falcons).
Based upon rookie 1st rounder performance, Phil Taylor (DT) was rated around #166, with 59 tackles, 1 forced fumble, and 4 sacks. (Granted, defensive players aren't given positional ratings like offensive players). Phil Taylor appears to be a decent pick-up, but he's not demonstrated that he's an elite defensive player.
Julio Jones, was ranked #25 in recievers for 2011, with 54 receptions for 959 yards and 8 TDs. Those are some impressive stats for a rookie. You may end up taking a WO with your #1 pick this year. Will he be as good as Julio was?
The one factor you have not considered is that the Falcons may have had an even worse record this year w/out Julio Jones.
In summary, you haven't proved trading down was a benefit to your organization and really you haven't proven that's it hurt Altanta particularly badly. Points wise on the draft grading scale, you really haven't traded the equivalent value for your #6 pick to Atlanta, as they didn't completely fall apart this year. Lastly, if another team isn't willing to gamble you couldn't have gotten extra picks, so bashing Atlanta for trading with you is akin to biting the hand that feeds.
And the factor you have not considered is the Browns also would have had a worse record this season without Taylor Little and even Marecic. The fact is we got three starters for their one, and we still have two more picks to include, shitsniffer.
Go back to reading shitty 8th grade Keats poetry and thinking you're a member of academia.
-
Point? I don't see it.
Cleveland is the beneficiary of Atlanta's mistake. I dare you to use the draft pick to improve your team.
Endymion said:
Point? I don't see it.
Cleveland is the beneficiary of Atlanta's mistake. I dare you to use the draft pick to improve your team.
Yes, the Browns must hit on their #22 pick. How? Not sure. But they must hit.
-
In 2010 the Browns had a 5-11 record and in 2011 you dropped to 4-12. Trading your draft pick did not improve your team in 2011 (same as with the Falcons).
Based upon rookie 1st rounder performance, Phil Taylor (DT) was rated around #166, with 59 tackles, 1 forced fumble, and 4 sacks. (Granted, defensive players aren't given positional ratings like offensive players). Phil Taylor appears to be a decent pick-up, but he's not demonstrated that he's an elite defensive player.
Julio Jones, was ranked #25 in recievers for 2011, with 54 receptions for 959 yards and 8 TDs. Those are some impressive stats for a rookie. You may end up taking a WO with your #1 pick this year. Will he be as good as Julio was?
The one factor you have not considered is that the Falcons may have had an even worse record this year w/out Julio Jones.
In summary, you haven't proved trading down was a benefit to your organization and really you haven't proven that's it hurt Altanta particularly badly. Points wise on the draft grading scale, you really haven't traded the equivalent value for your #6 pick to Atlanta, as they didn't completely fall apart this year. Lastly, if another team isn't willing to gamble you couldn't have gotten extra picks, so bashing Atlanta for trading with you is akin to biting the hand that feeds.
Endymion said:
In 2010 the Browns had a 5-11 record and in 2011 you dropped to 4-12. Trading your draft pick did not improve your team in 2011 (same as with the Falcons).
Based upon rookie 1st rounder performance, Phil Taylor (DT) was rated around #166, with 59 tackles, 1 forced fumble, and 4 sacks. (Granted, defensive players aren't given positional ratings like offensive players). Phil Taylor appears to be a decent pick-up, but he's not demonstrated that he's an elite defensive player.
Julio Jones, was ranked #25 in recievers for 2011, with 54 receptions for 959 yards and 8 TDs. Those are some impressive stats for a rookie. You may end up taking a WO with your #1 pick this year. Will he be as good as Julio was?
The one factor you have not considered is that the Falcons may have had an even worse record this year w/out Julio Jones.
In summary, you haven't proved trading down was a benefit to your organization and really you haven't proven that's it hurt Altanta particularly badly. Points wise on the draft grading scale, you really haven't traded the equivalent value for your #6 pick to Atlanta, as they didn't completely fall apart this year. Lastly, if another team isn't willing to gamble you couldn't have gotten extra picks, so bashing Atlanta for trading with you is akin to biting the hand that feeds.
You are by no means going far enough with this analysis. The Falcons got:
Julio Jones
The Browns got:
Phil Taylor....as someone said, he should make all rookie team on D...and very well may turn out to be an elite player at his position.
Greg Little....Who had practically as productive a year as Jones.
Owen Marecic...a contributor.....hopefully improving
all three of the above were starters, also the Browns get:
Atlanta's first round pick in 2012, which we know will be #22 overall (and who the Browns, yes, will expect to become an immediate starter)
Atlanta's fourth round pick in 2012. Again, hopefully a contributor.
-
^^^
thats pretty much the gist. overall, i think WR is a vastly overrated position by the masses. this guy sees it as well, which i think explains the snarky attitude conveyed in the writing. that aside, we now get to see the first effects of that atlanta trade, and there's a few lessons some need to understand, or at minimum, acknowledge.
this is a similar trade i think as what a few have condoned to obtain luck, under the impression that one player, albiet a possible franchise QB, is all this team needs to compete. sounds nice in principle, but the effect of trading multiple picks has a lasting reaction in the following years, especially first rounders. Atlanta this year is down one crucial pick to continue adding talent to their roster.....without it, they'll have to supplement that spot in FA. this is how teams get into cap hell....relying on FA.
similarly, i realize the love affair with blackmon isn't going anywhere with this post, however this is case and point why some of us are a bit hesitant to spend this pick on a WR. its not a knock on the kid, more that i dont think he's what we need/are missing. W've got all kinds of short route/slot receivers on this team. if we go WR anytime, the kid needs elite speed. I'm more on the side of grabbing wright than blackmon soley for this reason...blackmon wont take the top off, wright can. i know there's a myriad of reasons against this position....most are good too, but the bottom line impact of a guy like jones on an already good team with a average QB in Ryan wasn't what everyone thought a year ago. it will take time and practice for jones to grow into the position...same with each and every WR taken in the draft. so again, blackmon would be a nice hood ornament....but this team isn't there yet.....if ever.
so, we already got 3 rookie starters, still 2 more picks, and atlanta is left with only 5 picks, an older roster, and less wins than last year. whats important there is value....what exactly did atlanta get for trading all those picks? was their offense magically transformed with the addition of an "elite" receiver? this is often a misconception....while cases like AJ green do happen, its hardly the norm for any one player to make this kind of impact in a team sport. its a theory that the individual is not greater than the whole, which proves true in many aspects of life. i'll argue that having 11 guys on each side that are average players is better than having 2-3 standouts and a bunch of scrubs. quality is a nice thing to chase in the draft, however we need quantity as well. i think if heckert can hit on the high picks this year, next years draft is all about quality....targeting 2-3 elite talents to add to a young but promising roster. I know patience is a sin to utter to browns fans, but we're simply not to the point of competing yet. we need way more than 1 or 2 elite players....we need 5-10 solid guys.
now, i realize the offseason is the best, most exciting time for browns fans. draft mode is in full swing....but i implore the lot of ya: we have 3 months to comb thru every detail of these kids, they have exhibitions, practices, the combine, pro-days, private workouts, skeletons in their closets, etc etc etc. lets temper the freaking excitement, stop falling immediately in love with a player or 2 ya want in the draft, and be realistic about these positives and negatives.
-
One or even two superstud players cannot consistently get it done alone regardless of position, there has to be a smart and working system with decent players along with a matching chemistry in place that allows a superstud to be a stud and without that system and core of support even a superstud may look quite average at best..
Tom heckert has done one helluva job setting the club up for a potentially great draft that may pretty much make or break the club over the next few years, i will trust heckerts decisions on draft day and even in FA, i am by far more concerned with the "shurmur factor" as all of the talent in the world cant help if you have an inferior coaching philosophy and system that fails to utilize player strengths and abilities along with poor decision making and bad playcalling..
With heckert i expect if his guy is not there at #4 or if he gets an offer he cant refuse he will trade down and take players not many fans really considered, it will likely piss fans off but should make the team better in the end depending on the shurmur factor..
-
One or even two superstud players cannot consistently get it done alone regardless of position, there has to be a smart and working system with decent players along with a matching chemistry in place that allows a superstud to be a stud and without that system and core of support even a superstud may look quite average at best..
Tom heckert has done one helluva job setting the club up for a potentially great draft that may pretty much make or break the club over the next few years, i will trust heckerts decisions on draft day and even in FA, i am by far more concerned with the "shurmur factor" as all of the talent in the world cant help if you have an inferior coaching philosophy and system that fails to utilize player strengths and abilities along with poor decision making and bad playcalling..
With heckert i expect if his guy is not there at #4 or if he gets an offer he cant refuse he will trade down and take players not many fans really considered, it will likely piss fans off but should make the team better in the end depending on the shurmur factor..
One or even two superstud players cannot consistently get it done alone regardless of position, there has to be a smart and working system with decent players along with a matching chemistry in place that allows a superstud to be a stud and without that system and core of support even a superstud may look quite average at best..
Tom heckert has done one helluva job setting the club up for a potentially great draft that may pretty much make or break the club over the next few years, i will trust heckerts decisions on draft day and even in FA, i am by far more concerned with the "shurmur factor" as all of the talent in the world cant help if you have an inferior coaching philosophy and system that fails to utilize player strengths and abilities along with poor decision making and bad playcalling..
With heckert i expect if his guy is not there at #4 or if he gets an offer he cant refuse he will trade down and take players not many fans really considered, it will likely piss fans off but should make the team better in the end depending on the shurmur factor..
Well said. The "Shurmur Factor" is, indeed, I believe, the major concern for this team going forward. I mean, he could be a Chuck Noll/Bill Walsh stoic type HC who goes 1-13 his first year to multiple championships....or he could just alway be a 4-12 quality HC. We don't know yet.
-
Will just say, look at what Fitzgareld has done in Arizona without a QB and what Johnson did in Detroit when Stafford was constantly put on IR. Nothing. These guys still performed but it helped their teams none. I still think we need Blackmon to get that #1 WR cause I think Colt is better than Kolb/Skelton and Detroits #2 but the importance put on the position is not warranted.
-
Remember the fable the fox and the grapes? Browns fans are the fox and your draft is grapes. Atlanta scored a top flight reciever in Jones, and you guys whine about what they had to give up to get Jones. Who cares what they gave up, it's about what get from the draft. The Browns didn't have to give up anything to get Jones, they got consolation prizes instead. Atlanta made the play-offs, the Browns came no where near close. As long as you make the play-offs, you've got a chance to get to the Super Bowl.
All you talk about is who needs elite players and recievers don't touch the ball much...after all elite players don't make up a team, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, you got some starters in late draft rounds, but that's because the alternatives were far worse. If your organization is run right, you don't need 3rd-7th rounders to start for you franchise (except on special teams). Ultimately, you need about 5 elite players to be a play-off contender, typically they include: QB, WR, RB, LB/DL and CB/S.
In today's NFL, teams (especially winning organizations) must hit a home-run with their first round picks. If your first rounder isn't an elite type player at his position, who can start his rookie season and make a big impact, you've probably drafted badly or have a team chocked full of talented players. Your second round picks must also be big time pick-ups. The second round picks don't need to be "elite" but they need to be major contributors to the organization 1-2 years down the road. The remainder of the draft is for developmental/experimental players, ones who you are "gambling" on being good. You can afford to have misses with the later round picks.
If you select a wide-out with your #1 draft pick (slot #4) in 2012, then has the Atlanta trade really been good for you? Will that WO be as good a Jones (appears to be after 1 season)?
Phil Taylor is a decent pick-up for you. He would've been a steal had you nabbed him the second round. He's got to get a whole lot better for him to be justification over Jones, or you've got to nail your #22 pick this year (while not screwing up your #4 pick with a bust WR).
-
I hope we sign Calais Campbell from Arizona as our big offseason FA signing for RDE.. this would make the D much better. He's easily the top defensive line FA, and he's 25.
-
Remember the fable the fox and the grapes? Browns fans are the fox and your draft is grapes. Atlanta scored a top flight reciever in Jones, and you guys whine about what they had to give up to get Jones. Who cares what they gave up, it's about what get from the draft. The Browns didn't have to give up anything to get Jones, they got consolation prizes instead. Atlanta made the play-offs, the Browns came no where near close. As long as you make the play-offs, you've got a chance to get to the Super Bowl.
All you talk about is who needs elite players and recievers don't touch the ball much...after all elite players don't make up a team, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, you got some starters in late draft rounds, but that's because the alternatives were far worse. If your organization is run right, you don't need 3rd-7th rounders to start for you franchise (except on special teams). Ultimately, you need about 5 elite players to be a play-off contender, typically they include: QB, WR, RB, LB/DL and CB/S.
In today's NFL, teams (especially winning organizations) must hit a home-run with their first round picks. If your first rounder isn't an elite type player at his position, who can start his rookie season and make a big impact, you've probably drafted badly or have a team chocked full of talented players. Your second round picks must also be big time pick-ups. The second round picks don't need to be "elite" but they need to be major contributors to the organization 1-2 years down the road. The remainder of the draft is for developmental/experimental players, ones who you are "gambling" on being good. You can afford to have misses with the later round picks.
If you select a wide-out with your #1 draft pick (slot #4) in 2012, then has the Atlanta trade really been good for you? Will that WO be as good a Jones (appears to be after 1 season)?
Phil Taylor is a decent pick-up for you. He would've been a steal had you nabbed him the second round. He's got to get a whole lot better for him to be justification over Jones, or you've got to nail your #22 pick this year (while not screwing up your #4 pick with a bust WR).
Endymion said:
Remember the fable the fox and the grapes? Browns fans are the fox and your draft is grapes. Atlanta scored a top flight reciever in Jones, and you guys whine about what they had to give up to get Jones. Who cares what they gave up, it's about what get from the draft. The Browns didn't have to give up anything to get Jones, they got consolation prizes instead. Atlanta made the play-offs, the Browns came no where near close. As long as you make the play-offs, you've got a chance to get to the Super Bowl.
All you talk about is who needs elite players and recievers don't touch the ball much...after all elite players don't make up a team, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, you got some starters in late draft rounds, but that's because the alternatives were far worse. If your organization is run right, you don't need 3rd-7th rounders to start for you franchise (except on special teams). Ultimately, you need about 5 elite players to be a play-off contender, typically they include: QB, WR, RB, LB/DL and CB/S.
In today's NFL, teams (especially winning organizations) must hit a home-run with their first round picks. If your first rounder isn't an elite type player at his position, who can start his rookie season and make a big impact, you've probably drafted badly or have a team chocked full of talented players. Your second round picks must also be big time pick-ups. The second round picks don't need to be "elite" but they need to be major contributors to the organization 1-2 years down the road. The remainder of the draft is for developmental/experimental players, ones who you are "gambling" on being good. You can afford to have misses with the later round picks.
If you select a wide-out with your #1 draft pick (slot #4) in 2012, then has the Atlanta trade really been good for you? Will that WO be as good a Jones (appears to be after 1 season)?
Phil Taylor is a decent pick-up for you. He would've been a steal had you nabbed him the second round. He's got to get a whole lot better for him to be justification over Jones, or you've got to nail your #22 pick this year (while not screwing up your #4 pick with a bust WR).
Regarding the red part, sure assuming we get Blackmon, and he turns out as good as Jones- the Browns just delayed selecting the stud WR by a year. AND we can use Atlanta's 21st pick on either a DE to play opposite Sheard, or a linebacker to replace the increasingly fragile Fujita.
We didn't whine about it either-(well some bozos on this board did) we just pointed out- Atlanta gave up FAR too much to get Jones. Jones was going to be the Crown Jewel that was going to put the Falcons in the Super Bowl. EPIC FAIL. And you're undervaluing Taylor, the guy is drawing double teams on a routine basis. Little would have had similar stats to Jones if he had learned to hang onto the ball earlier in the year.
So go look in a mirror Steeler guy and tell me where Ward and Wallace were drafted- third round. Atlanta gave up a truckload to try and get over the top, and it's seriously going to bite them in the upcoming season.
-
As discussed the Browns 2011 draft has/had a great impact on WRs for your team. You could've been set with an elite player at that position, and/or you may draft an elite player at that position this year. However, by not selecting Jones in 2011, the Browns have for the most part ignored the QB position.
Many of you on this board (before the season) said Colt reminded you of a young Joe Montana. Now most of you think he needs jettisoned. RG3 what the majority of Browns fans seem to be hoping for with the #4 pick. St. Louis or Minnesota may also be gunning for him. You may have to give up your 2nd first round pick (from Atlanta) to move up and secure him.
Maybe Colt is good enough to get your team to the play-offs, however, he's not been surrounded with any weapons of any repute, so it's kinda hard to say if he sucks as bad as Ryan Leaf or not. Had you selected Jones, you'd have known more about Colt and subsequently, your top pick this year could've address another position of need (other than QB or WR).
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login