Mega-Tons Of Bs About The Jones For Picks With Browns
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The amazing part about our situation is we are literally guaranteed something we want or need. Either Blackmon, RG3 or Kalil will fall to us.
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The amazing part about our situation is we are literally guaranteed something we want or need. Either Blackmon, RG3 or Kalil will fall to us.
The amazing part about our situation is we are literally guaranteed something we want or need. Either Blackmon, RG3 or Kalil will fall to us.
Or Luck
or Claiborne. -
I find it interesting how every big press report talks about a teams deficiency after a playoff defeat instead of showcasing it much earlier. If Atlanta had not traded picks with us, Who can they pick with their draft picks who would have helped avoid the defeat against the NY Giants ? Nobody answers that, All we see is finger pointing - Oh look they did wrong, they did wrong.... but there is no constructive suggestions.
Did the "pundits" ever think that maybe, all along the Gmen were playing below potential and have finally clicked or the fact that Falcons had a really bad game or the fact that the Falcons were outcoached by Tom Coughlin and the Giants ?
Nopes !!!
They blame it all on the trade with Cleveland as if that single-handedly wrecked their season. Total BS. The only truth is that they probably gave up way more than they should have for the #6 pick, but Jones was not a bad pick @ #6.
Is this really what they are saying in the Atlanta press and on Falcon message boards? That their failure in the playoffs was due to the trade with the Browns? I would like to see some of those articles.
Personally, I just think that their defense didn't play very well. Not sure why the acquisition of Jones had anything to do with that.
Is this really what they are saying in the Atlanta press and on Falcon message boards? That their failure in the playoffs was due to the trade with the Browns? I would like to see some of those articles.
Personally, I just think that their defense didn't play very well. Not sure why the acquisition of Jones had anything to do with that.
The quote is there in the very first post of this thread
http://sports.yahoo....rd_defeat_12833
The Atlanta front office
Atlanta gave up five picks in the 2011 draft to land wide receiver Julio Jones with the No. 6 overall selection. We listed that decision last week at No. 5 on our most Epic Failures of the 2011 season.
Apparently, the Cold, Hard Football Facts were a little too generous.
That decision looks even worse today than it did just a week ago, after the Falcons lost 24-2 to the Giants on Sunday. Atlanta’s only points came from a safety generated by the defense.
Jones was a non-factor: he caught 7 ineffective passes for 64 yards, a humble average of 9.1 yards per catch. You would expect something more out of a player who is supposed to be a once-in-a-lifetime talent so incredible that you trade away the equivalent of nearly an entire draft class to land him.
Hell, a ferocious right guard would have proved far more valuable to the Falcons than did Jones against the Giants. Twice Atlanta faced 4th and 1. Twice QB Matt Ryan tried to punch it up the middle. Twice his overmatched offensive line failed to generate any movement. Twice the attempt failed.
You figure on at least one of those plays, Atlanta would have had enough faith in its always-wide-open, once-in-a-lifetime, five-draft-pick talent to throw him the ball for an easy first down.
Instead of a once-in-a-lifetime, game-changing performance in the biggest game of the year, here’s what Atlanta got for its five draft picks: a player who helped its offense score exactly 0 points in the biggest game of the year. Keep in mind that the Giants surrendered 400 points during the 2011 season, most of any playoff team this year and among the most by any team in history.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
This much I DO know. If the Browns again go 4-12 or thereabouts in 2012, then Atlanta DID hose us in the draft.
PERFORMANCE ON THE FIELD............. that is the only way to judge if the Browns made good or bad choice.
Absolutely incorrect. If the Browns "go 4-12 or thereabouts in 2012," then that means we butchered the 2012 draft. It's really not that hard to understand but I'll spell it out once again:
Atlanta was already a playoff team BEFORE they traded for Julio Jones. So he was not the difference between making or missing out on the playoffs. Atlanta won their division in 2010 WITHOUT Julio Jones and lost in the Wild Card round this year WITH Julio Jones. If you truly believe that wins and losses are the only way to measure the success of a team, then he clearly did not make the Falcons any better. In fact, the Falcons won three less games this year with him than they did last year without him.
Cleveland already made the correct decision by receiving 5 picks for one player. It was a no brainer. And like I said, even if we butcher the 2012 draft (which Heckert won't), it was still a great trade as Julio Jones can not make the same impact as 2 or 3 players let alone 5. When looking at the trade, most of you guys are comparing Cleveland to Atlanta when you should be comparing Julio Jones to Phil Taylor, Greg Little, Owen Marecic, and our 1st (#22) and 4th rounders in the 2012 draft. The big winner is Cleveland unless Julio Jones plays a big part in a deep playoff run for Atlanta in the next couple years..
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I find it interesting how every big press report talks about a teams deficiency after a playoff defeat instead of showcasing it much earlier. If Atlanta had not traded picks with us, Who can they pick with their draft picks who would have helped avoid the defeat against the NY Giants ? Nobody answers that, All we see is finger pointing - Oh look they did wrong, they did wrong.... but there is no constructive suggestions.
Did the "pundits" ever think that maybe, all along the Gmen were playing below potential and have finally clicked or the fact that Falcons had a really bad game or the fact that the Falcons were outcoached by Tom Coughlin and the Giants ?
Nopes !!!
They blame it all on the trade with Cleveland as if that single-handedly wrecked their season. Total BS. The only truth is that they probably gave up way more than they should have for the #6 pick, but Jones was not a bad pick @ #6.
I find it interesting how every big press report talks about a teams deficiency after a playoff defeat instead of showcasing it much earlier. If Atlanta had not traded picks with us, Who can they pick with their draft picks who would have helped avoid the defeat against the NY Giants ? Nobody answers that, All we see is finger pointing - Oh look they did wrong, they did wrong.... but there is no constructive suggestions.
Did the "pundits" ever think that maybe, all along the Gmen were playing below potential and have finally clicked or the fact that Falcons had a really bad game or the fact that the Falcons were outcoached by Tom Coughlin and the Giants ?
Nopes !!!
They blame it all on the trade with Cleveland as if that single-handedly wrecked their season. Total BS. The only truth is that they probably gave up way more than they should have for the #6 pick, but Jones was not a bad pick @ #6.
Jones was not a bad pick @ #6, but the Falcoons could have taken Torry Smith (virtually identical stats to Jones) or Jon Baldwin and given up NOTHING.
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I say trade down anyway.
We need a QB and I like Tannehill the best after Luck. I just don't want him at #4.
Drop 3-4 slots, grab Tannehill there, and secure a second round pick.
Works for me.
Most everything I have read says that Tannehill could be available in the second round....why bother trading up...or down for him?
Most everything I have read says that Tannehill could be available in the second round....why bother trading up...or down for him?
That may be what some think.
I'll bet you a beer he is gone by pick 20.
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Most everything I have read says that Tannehill could be available in the second round....why bother trading up...or down for him?
That may be what some think.
I'll bet you a beer he is gone by pick 20.
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Up front, I apologize in advance for starting a new thread on this subject. However, the other thread pertaining to the Jones trade was
just too dumb to continue.
Here are the Falcons' offensive line weaknesses (the RG the article refers to is a 4th rounder. The Falcons do have a solid LG, though.
Dang, if Atlanta had kept their picks, they could have really beefed up their oline, still nabbed a Randall Cobb in the draft,
or a burner like maybe Wright in this years first round.
Big fiasco for Atlanta. They had the qb, the rb, the wr(s).....but very weak engine on the car.
Once and for all, the Browns made a great, huge deal, and dramatically improved their defense.
And that doesn't include whoever they get with Atlanta's former pick in the first round THIS year.
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The Atlanta front office
Atlanta gave up five picks in the 2011 draft to land wide receiver Julio Jones with the No. 6 overall selection. We listed that decision last week at No. 5 on our most Epic Failures of the 2011 season.
Apparently, the Cold, Hard Football Facts were a little too generous.
That decision looks even worse today than it did just a week ago, after the Falcons lost 24-2 to the Giants on Sunday. Atlanta’s only points came from a safety generated by the defense.
Jones was a non-factor: he caught 7 ineffective passes for 64 yards, a humble average of 9.1 yards per catch. You would expect something more out of a player who is supposed to be a once-in-a-lifetime talent so incredible that you trade away the equivalent of nearly an entire draft class to land him.
Hell, a ferocious right guard would have proved far more valuable to the Falcons than did Jones against the Giants. Twice Atlanta faced 4th and 1. Twice QB Matt Ryan tried to punch it up the middle. Twice his overmatched offensive line failed to generate any movement. Twice the attempt failed.
You figure on at least one of those plays, Atlanta would have had enough faith in its always-wide-open, once-in-a-lifetime, five-draft-pick talent to throw him the ball for an easy first down.
Instead of a once-in-a-lifetime, game-changing performance in the biggest game of the year, here’s what Atlanta got for its five draft picks: a player who helped its offense score exactly 0 points in the biggest game of the year. Keep in mind that the Giants surrendered 400 points during the 2011 season, most of any playoff team this year and among the most by any team in history.
Calfoxwc Wrote:
Big fiasco for Atlanta. They had the qb, the rb, the wr(s).....but very weak engine on the car.
Once and for all, the Browns made a great, huge deal, and dramatically improved their defense.
Okay, part of this statment is fact, part is fiction. The Cleveland Browns did dramatically improve their defense from 2010 (ranked 22) to 2011 (ranked 10). Big fiasco for Altanta? I think not. Atlanta's defense also improved from 2010 (ranked 16) to 2011 (ranked 12). Looking at total team offense, Cleveland ranked 29 from 2010 to 2011. So your offensive draft impact from 2011 had no net benefit for your team, while Atlanta improved from 2010 (Ranked 16) to 2011 (ranked 10).
Cleveland's draft is not based upon whether Atlanta screwed up or not, it's based on whether or not your front office identified the best possible players at the positions you selected from. In 10 years, you'll know who should've been selected and who shouldn't. As of right now, you can't definitively say who did better in the 2011 draft, and the evidence so far still points to Atlanta doing better than Cleveland.
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Calfoxwc Wrote:
Big fiasco for Atlanta. They had the qb, the rb, the wr(s).....but very weak engine on the car.
Once and for all, the Browns made a great, huge deal, and dramatically improved their defense.
Okay, part of this statment is fact, part is fiction. The Cleveland Browns did dramatically improve their defense from 2010 (ranked 22) to 2011 (ranked 10). Big fiasco for Altanta? I think not. Atlanta's defense also improved from 2010 (ranked 16) to 2011 (ranked 12). Looking at total team offense, Cleveland ranked 29 from 2010 to 2011. So your offensive draft impact from 2011 had no net benefit for your team, while Atlanta improved from 2010 (Ranked 16) to 2011 (ranked 10).
Cleveland's draft is not based upon whether Atlanta screwed up or not, it's based on whether or not your front office identified the best possible players at the positions you selected from. In 10 years, you'll know who should've been selected and who shouldn't. As of right now, you can't definitively say who did better in the 2011 draft, and the evidence so far still points to Atlanta doing better than Cleveland.
Endymion said:
Calfoxwc Wrote:
Okay, part of this statment is fact, part is fiction. The Cleveland Browns did dramatically improve their defense from 2010 (ranked 22) to 2011 (ranked 10). Big fiasco for Altanta? I think not. Atlanta's defense also improved from 2010 (ranked 16) to 2011 (ranked 12). Looking at total team offense, Cleveland ranked 29 from 2010 to 2011. So your offensive draft impact from 2011 had no net benefit for your team, while Atlanta improved from 2010 (Ranked 16) to 2011 (ranked 10).
Cleveland's draft is not based upon whether Atlanta screwed up or not, it's based on whether or not your front office identified the best possible players at the positions you selected from. In 10 years, you'll know who should've been selected and who shouldn't. As of right now, you can't definitively say who did better in the 2011 draft, and the evidence so far still points to Atlanta doing better than Cleveland.
You are determining total offense and total defense on yards alone. That is a big mistake. And secondly, the Browns spent the past 2 drafts building the defense. I expect more offense in 2012. We will know whether or not it was a good trade for Atlanta if Julio Jones can lead them deep into the playoffs or to the Super Bowl. If he doesn't, it was a terrible trade. It was already a great trade for Cleveland as Phil Taylor, Greg Little, and Owen Marecic together are better than Julio Jones. And Cleveland still has another 1st and 4th to add to that..
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Calfoxwc Wrote:
Big fiasco for Atlanta. They had the qb, the rb, the wr(s).....but very weak engine on the car.
Once and for all, the Browns made a great, huge deal, and dramatically improved their defense.
Okay, part of this statment is fact, part is fiction. The Cleveland Browns did dramatically improve their defense from 2010 (ranked 22) to 2011 (ranked 10). Big fiasco for Altanta? I think not. Atlanta's defense also improved from 2010 (ranked 16) to 2011 (ranked 12). Looking at total team offense, Cleveland ranked 29 from 2010 to 2011. So your offensive draft impact from 2011 had no net benefit for your team, while Atlanta improved from 2010 (Ranked 16) to 2011 (ranked 10).
Cleveland's draft is not based upon whether Atlanta screwed up or not, it's based on whether or not your front office identified the best possible players at the positions you selected from. In 10 years, you'll know who should've been selected and who shouldn't. As of right now, you can't definitively say who did better in the 2011 draft, and the evidence so far still points to Atlanta doing better than Cleveland.
Endymion said:
Calfoxwc Wrote:
Okay, part of this statment is fact, part is fiction. The Cleveland Browns did dramatically improve their defense from 2010 (ranked 22) to 2011 (ranked 10). Big fiasco for Altanta? I think not. Atlanta's defense also improved from 2010 (ranked 16) to 2011 (ranked 12). Looking at total team offense, Cleveland ranked 29 from 2010 to 2011. So your offensive draft impact from 2011 had no net benefit for your team, while Atlanta improved from 2010 (Ranked 16) to 2011 (ranked 10).
Cleveland's draft is not based upon whether Atlanta screwed up or not, it's based on whether or not your front office identified the best possible players at the positions you selected from. In 10 years, you'll know who should've been selected and who shouldn't. As of right now, you can't definitively say who did better in the 2011 draft, and the evidence so far still points to Atlanta doing better than Cleveland.
Well, Atlanta SHOULD in theory have gotten the one single better player out of that deal in the 2011 draft. That is why they made the trade. And maybe they did.
But when you take the contributions of all three players the Browns got out of that deal, Taylor, Little, and Marecic, I think, overall, the Browns did better.
But then, as Paul Harvey used to say, you have to hear the rest of the story. There are the two picks the Browns get in the 2012 draft...the #22 overall, and a 4th round pick, actual number TBD.
One mock draft I have seen has the Browns taking RGIII at #4, RT Zebrie Sanders from FSU (6'6"305), and Mohamed Sanu WR Rutgers at #37.
If the Browns came away with a starting ROT from that #22 pick, that would be productive.
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I disagree with the assessment. When you are a consistent playoff team like Atlanta you already have a decent squad. The next step is to become elite. They gambled on taking Jones @ 6 cos they felt he would be a difference maker. His performance this year was decent. He did not help the Falcons in the playoffs but neither did Turner, or White or Gonzales or Ryan.
If they identify their weakness and fix it via FA and Jones has a great year next season, then the trade will seem worth it.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
This much I DO know. If the Browns again go 4-12 or thereabouts in 2012, then Atlanta DID hose us in the draft.
PERFORMANCE ON THE FIELD............. that is the only way to judge if the Browns made good or bad choice.
Absolutely incorrect. If the Browns "go 4-12 or thereabouts in 2012," then that means we butchered the 2012 draft. It's really not that hard to understand but I'll spell it out once again:
Atlanta was already a playoff team BEFORE they traded for Julio Jones. So he was not the difference between making or missing out on the playoffs. Atlanta won their division in 2010 WITHOUT Julio Jones and lost in the Wild Card round this year WITH Julio Jones. If you truly believe that wins and losses are the only way to measure the success of a team, then he clearly did not make the Falcons any better. In fact, the Falcons won three less games this year with him than they did last year without him.
Cleveland already made the correct decision by receiving 5 picks for one player. It was a no brainer. And like I said, even if we butcher the 2012 draft (which Heckert won't), it was still a great trade as Julio Jones can not make the same impact as 2 or 3 players let alone 5. When looking at the trade, most of you guys are comparing Cleveland to Atlanta when you should be comparing Julio Jones to Phil Taylor, Greg Little, Owen Marecic, and our 1st (#22) and 4th rounders in the 2012 draft. The big winner is Cleveland unless Julio Jones plays a big part in a deep playoff run for Atlanta in the next couple years..
Absolutely incorrect. If the Browns "go 4-12 or thereabouts in 2012," then that means we butchered the 2012 draft. It's really not that hard to understand but I'll spell it out once again:Atlanta was already a playoff team BEFORE they traded for Julio Jones. So he was not the difference between making or missing out on the playoffs. Atlanta won their division in 2010 WITHOUT Julio Jones and lost in the Wild Card round this year WITH Julio Jones. If you truly believe that wins and losses are the only way to measure the success of a team, then he clearly did not make the Falcons any better. In fact, the Falcons won three less games this year with him than they did last year without him.Cleveland already made the correct decision by receiving 5 picks for one player. It was a no brainer. And like I said, even if we butcher the 2012 draft (which Heckert won't), it was still a great trade as Julio Jones can not make the same impact as 2 or 3 players let alone 5. When looking at the trade, most of you guys are comparing Cleveland to Atlanta when you should be comparing Julio Jones to Phil Taylor, Greg Little, Owen Marecic, and our 1st (#22) and 4th rounders in the 2012 draft. The big winner is Cleveland unless Julio Jones plays a big part in a deep playoff run for Atlanta in the next couple years..
Great post.......I can't help but notice that our Village Idiot has yet to respond.
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