Taylor Mays & Clay Matthews
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Didn't Cleveland have the 2nd worst offense in the NFL? Why the obsession with players on D?
Didn't Cleveland have the 2nd worst offense in the NFL? Why the obsession with players on D?
IMO, there's talent on the offensive side of the ball, although I do feel we need a running back. When DA and Quinn went down, we were sunk, Dorsey is not an NFL caliber QB. However, the defensive side is clearly lacking. We couldn't stop anybody. If we strengthen the D, it makes the job of the offense that much easier.
I was a huge supporter of drafting Rey until yesterday - just not as sold on him now. We don't need an inconsistent LB. I loved the fact the Matthews was all over the QB.
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For anyone who missed it last night:
And I'm not sure comparing Matthews to the 1st Round inside guys makes a lot of sense. Matthews would play ROLB in the 3-4; Curry and Maualuga would play LILB.
Maybe you could turn Matthews into an inside guy, but I don't see how that would be a good use of his talents (especially his pass-rush skills).
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For anyone who missed it last night:
And I'm not sure comparing Matthews to the 1st Round inside guys makes a lot of sense. Matthews would play ROLB in the 3-4; Curry and Maualuga would play LILB.
Maybe you could turn Matthews into an inside guy, but I don't see how that would be a good use of his talents (especially his pass-rush skills).
Aloysius said:
For anyone who missed it last night:.
Funny....this video shows EXACTLY what I have been saying about Mays. Watch the hit. He leads with his shoulder (actually turning his body) and has his arms underneath his body.
It is TERRIBLE technique. It is also the kind of technique that is going to draw attention by the refs and get a lot of penalties called.
The more I see of these BIG HITTERS...the more I don't want them.
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I kind of like the Curry rd 1, Chung rd 2 combo. If you watched the Oregon game....you saw Chung lay the lumber on more than one occasion...and it gives us the top LBer in the draft, and the #2 SS as well.
I also had problems with Mays tackling technique. He didn't wrap up. He just lowered his shoulder and threw his body at the carrier. On at least 2 occasions in the first half the ball carrier bounced off him for big gains (one for a TD). He may be coached to wrap up...but his instincts are to lay the big hit first...and instincts are hard to break.
I kind of like the Curry rd 1, Chung rd 2 combo. If you watched the Oregon game....you saw Chung lay the lumber on more than one occasion...and it gives us the top LBer in the draft, and the #2 SS as well.
I also had problems with Mays tackling technique. He didn't wrap up. He just lowered his shoulder and threw his body at the carrier. On at least 2 occasions in the first half the ball carrier bounced off him for big gains (one for a TD). He may be coached to wrap up...but his instincts are to lay the big hit first...and instincts are hard to break.
In fairness, I think you're making the exception into the rule on this one. You don't earn Consensus All American if you're having difficulty tackling people as a Safety if your INT numbers aren't high. The ONLY Penn State ballcarrier I saw scoring a TD on the ground was Clark on a QB draw play which wouldn't include a Safety in the replay. They scored 2 other times on pass plays near the sidelines meaning stay away from the Safety - just go after the corner.
I DID see Mays jarring footballs loose on 2 different collisions he made. Did you see the play where the Penn State RB broke off a 40 yard run early on? The conclusion of that play was a turnover because Taylor Mays pryed the ball loose and USC recovered it. That's the kind of game changing event that swings momentum and did. The game was a 7 point difference at the time.
I'm sure there might be a couple things to fine tweak with Mays at the next level. The All American highlights on Mays prior to what he did vrs Penn State showcased the same intimidating hits. Our Safeties don't scare anybody to cross our middle and neither guy runs 4.2s or weighs 235. End result? Who has reason to drop the ball over the middle on us? We want to CREATE Dennis Northcutt Syndrome over the middle. Nobody has reason to go mini-skirt over the middle on us right now because our safeties always seem to be too late. I think Sean Jones has had 1 knee surgery too many. I didn't see the same player in 2008 that I saw in 2007; and I call Brodney Pool "Peak-A-Boo" because I always seem to ask late in the game - "oh, he's playing today?" . We've got young corners that can use better help than they're getting.
Alot of your elite Defenses have a Bob Sanders, Ed Reed or a Polly-wanna-scare-you. Didn't BB once feel the urgency to equip our defense with Eric Turner? This kid couldn't remind me any more of Eric Turner except he's rumored to run faster and weigh about 20 pounds more. I saw a game changer yesterday. While I like Curry better than Rey at LBer all of a sudden, I'm not sure he has better upside than Clay Matthews Jr. Tradition says, USC defenders have treated us well just as Safeties that went to college in Los Angeles have.
- Tom F. (Why is it in EVERY freakin Rose Bowl that the Big 10 Defense looks like they've never seen the forward pass before? Those were uncontested routes ALL day and it's not like ALOT of these USC WRs go on to NFL stardom after they embarass the Big 10 secondaries.)
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I kind of like the Curry rd 1, Chung rd 2 combo. If you watched the Oregon game....you saw Chung lay the lumber on more than one occasion...and it gives us the top LBer in the draft, and the #2 SS as well.
I also had problems with Mays tackling technique. He didn't wrap up. He just lowered his shoulder and threw his body at the carrier. On at least 2 occasions in the first half the ball carrier bounced off him for big gains (one for a TD). He may be coached to wrap up...but his instincts are to lay the big hit first...and instincts are hard to break.
In fairness, I think you're making the exception into the rule on this one. You don't earn Consensus All American if you're having difficulty tackling people as a Safety if your INT numbers aren't high. The ONLY Penn State ballcarrier I saw scoring a TD on the ground was Clark on a QB draw play which wouldn't include a Safety in the replay. They scored 2 other times on pass plays near the sidelines meaning stay away from the Safety - just go after the corner.
I DID see Mays jarring footballs loose on 2 different collisions he made. Did you see the play where the Penn State RB broke off a 40 yard run early on? The conclusion of that play was a turnover because Taylor Mays pryed the ball loose and USC recovered it. That's the kind of game changing event that swings momentum and did. The game was a 7 point difference at the time.
I'm sure there might be a couple things to fine tweak with Mays at the next level. The All American highlights on Mays prior to what he did vrs Penn State showcased the same intimidating hits. Our Safeties don't scare anybody to cross our middle and neither guy runs 4.2s or weighs 235. End result? Who has reason to drop the ball over the middle on us? We want to CREATE Dennis Northcutt Syndrome over the middle. Nobody has reason to go mini-skirt over the middle on us right now because our safeties always seem to be too late. I think Sean Jones has had 1 knee surgery too many. I didn't see the same player in 2008 that I saw in 2007; and I call Brodney Pool "Peak-A-Boo" because I always seem to ask late in the game - "oh, he's playing today?" . We've got young corners that can use better help than they're getting.
Alot of your elite Defenses have a Bob Sanders, Ed Reed or a Polly-wanna-scare-you. Didn't BB once feel the urgency to equip our defense with Eric Turner? This kid couldn't remind me any more of Eric Turner except he's rumored to run faster and weigh about 20 pounds more. I saw a game changer yesterday. While I like Curry better than Rey at LBer all of a sudden, I'm not sure he has better upside than Clay Matthews Jr. Tradition says, USC defenders have treated us well just as Safeties that went to college in Los Angeles have.
- Tom F. (Why is it in EVERY freakin Rose Bowl that the Big 10 Defense looks like they've never seen the forward pass before? Those were uncontested routes ALL day and it's not like ALOT of these USC WRs go on to NFL stardom after they embarass the Big 10 secondaries.)
I DID see Mays jarring footballs loose on 2 different collisions he made. Did you see the play where the Penn State RB broke off a 40 yard run early on? The conclusion of that play was a turnover because Taylor Mays pryed the ball loose and USC recovered it. That's the kind of game changing event that swings momentum and did. The game was a 7 point difference at the time.
Flugs..I saw that play too...and even the announcers finally admitted that they believed the ball was poked out by #7...and I gave mays props on that play as the one where he DID wrap up instead of going for the big hit. As for the TD....I believe it was the first TD (first half)...in which the runner bounced off him and went in for the score...and Mays never put his arms out...just went for the kill shot.
I agree that you don't get honors if you don't make tackles...but I am also saying that this kid has shown in THIS game that he is not as disciplined as I would like to see.
I guess I am less impressed with the BIG HIT and more impressed with the DEAD ON TECHNIQUE guy. If we had a D that tackled well already, go for the big hit...but right now we need disciplined technicians who wrap up the runner IN ADDITION to bringing the wood.
If Curry is there, I go that route. If not, Mays may be the option.
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Aloysius said:
For anyone who missed it last night:.
Funny....this video shows EXACTLY what I have been saying about Mays. Watch the hit. He leads with his shoulder (actually turning his body) and has his arms underneath his body.
It is TERRIBLE technique. It is also the kind of technique that is going to draw attention by the refs and get a lot of penalties called.
The more I see of these BIG HITTERS...the more I don't want them.
Funny....this video shows EXACTLY what I have been saying about Mays. Watch the hit. He leads with his shoulder (actually turning his body) and has his arms underneath his body.
It is TERRIBLE technique. It is also the kind of technique that is going to draw attention by the refs and get a lot of penalties called.
The more I see of these BIG HITTERS...the more I don't want them.
Where and when did they start teaching tackling without shoulders WPB? Are you aware that Mays was a Consensus All American for HOW he tackles people? That's the WRONG video to show Cleveland Browns' fans growing tired of too much ankle grabbing and passiveness over the middle of our secondary. It's no wonder why nobody ever drops passes crossing our middle. After watching Polly play Safety at the next level - I think Pete Carroll knows what he's doing better than you're giving him credit for here in this debate.
Just out of curiosity, did that receiver catch the ball or drop it? If you watch the reply like I have about 20 times. The officials got it wrong. It wasn't head to head. Mays led with his shoulder like they TEACH text book tackling. I've attended about 40 football camps in my life and I've never once seen someone teach ankle grabbing or arm tackling as the preferred way to do it. Football isn't played on a Madden video game - it's played outdoors with pads and hard surfaces. You teach hit with the shoulder, wrap with the arms and drive through the man so he's planted on the ground.
Mays also caused a fumble which created quite the point swing from just being up 7 and almost zero to going up 14 points and having momentum juice the rest of the team. Maybe it's just me, but there's something intriguing about a Safety weighing 235 pounds and running 4.2s that LOVES to intimidate people corssing his middle. I think he'll have more immediate impact than a guy like
- Tom F. (I keep visualizing what you can do with blitzes or against some of the AFC North receivers that remain unchallenged by our secondary)
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Aloysius said:
For anyone who missed it last night:.
Funny....this video shows EXACTLY what I have been saying about Mays. Watch the hit. He leads with his shoulder (actually turning his body) and has his arms underneath his body.
It is TERRIBLE technique. It is also the kind of technique that is going to draw attention by the refs and get a lot of penalties called.
The more I see of these BIG HITTERS...the more I don't want them.
Funny....this video shows EXACTLY what I have been saying about Mays. Watch the hit. He leads with his shoulder (actually turning his body) and has his arms underneath his body.
It is TERRIBLE technique. It is also the kind of technique that is going to draw attention by the refs and get a lot of penalties called.
The more I see of these BIG HITTERS...the more I don't want them.
You lost me on this one WPB. That was text book. Seperate the WR from the ball when he comes across the middle.
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Flugs...I know you lead with the shoulder...and HIT with the shoulder...but you don't do it with your arms tucked under your body....which is what he did on that play...and several others.
As for the hit in that video itself...I saw the helmet to helmet. It was there. The shoulder hit first...but the helmets also connected. He also LEFT HIS FEET AND WENT HIGH on the hit. Which, even without the helmet to helmet, would be a PF for unnecessary roughness in the NFL new rules. So either way you go on it...it was a bad decision.
If he can learn to get his arms extended instead of relying on the hit to take the ball carrier down...great. But when he starts going against guys as fast and as big and as talented as he is in the NFL....not using his arms is going to get him into trouble.
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Funny....this video shows EXACTLY what I have been saying about Mays. Watch the hit. He leads with his shoulder (actually turning his body) and has his arms underneath his body.
It is TERRIBLE technique. It is also the kind of technique that is going to draw attention by the refs and get a lot of penalties called.
The more I see of these BIG HITTERS...the more I don't want them.
You lost me on this one WPB. That was text book. Seperate the WR from the ball when he comes across the middle.
Masters said:
You lost me on this one WPB. That was text book. Seperate the WR from the ball when he comes across the middle.Nope, not even close.
1. He turned his body sideways before contact.
2. He left his feet and went high (unnecessary roughness in NFL)
3. He hit helmet to helmet (unnecessary roughness in NFL)
4. He left his arms tucked underneath him/no wrap up
Text book is going shoulder first with arms extended to the chest/mid-section. Not leaving your feet, going high, turning your body, and leaving your arms tucked beneath you.
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Masters said:
You lost me on this one WPB. That was text book. Seperate the WR from the ball when he comes across the middle.Nope, not even close.
1. He turned his body sideways before contact.
2. He left his feet and went high (unnecessary roughness in NFL)
3. He hit helmet to helmet (unnecessary roughness in NFL)
4. He left his arms tucked underneath him/no wrap up
Text book is going shoulder first with arms extended to the chest/mid-section. Not leaving your feet, going high, turning your body, and leaving your arms tucked beneath you.
Nope, not even close.
1. He turned his body sideways before contact.
2. He left his feet and went high (unnecessary roughness in NFL)
3. He hit helmet to helmet (unnecessary roughness in NFL)
4. He left his arms tucked underneath him/no wrap up
Text book is going shoulder first with arms extended to the chest/mid-section. Not leaving your feet, going high, turning your body, and leaving your arms tucked beneath you.
1. He turned his shoulder into the guy.
2. Agree, didn't need to leave his feet. But I saw him excellerate off his feet right before contact.
3. It was not helmet to helmet. That was all shoulder. Bad call by the refs.
4. He is not tackling, he is seperating the WR fromt he ball when the ball arrives. This is a routine play by top safties in the NFL.
5. Did the WR catch the ball?
That is text book for making a tackle in open space, not for seperating a WR from the football, when the ball is just arriving.
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I DID see Mays jarring footballs loose on 2 different collisions he made. Did you see the play where the Penn State RB broke off a 40 yard run early on? The conclusion of that play was a turnover because Taylor Mays pryed the ball loose and USC recovered it. That's the kind of game changing event that swings momentum and did. The game was a 7 point difference at the time.
Flugs..I saw that play too...and even the announcers finally admitted that they believed the ball was poked out by #7...and I gave mays props on that play as the one where he DID wrap up instead of going for the big hit. As for the TD....I believe it was the first TD (first half)...in which the runner bounced off him and went in for the score...and Mays never put his arms out...just went for the kill shot.
I agree that you don't get honors if you don't make tackles...but I am also saying that this kid has shown in THIS game that he is not as disciplined as I would like to see.
I guess I am less impressed with the BIG HIT and more impressed with the DEAD ON TECHNIQUE guy. If we had a D that tackled well already, go for the big hit...but right now we need disciplined technicians who wrap up the runner IN ADDITION to bringing the wood.
If Curry is there, I go that route. If not, Mays may be the option.
Flugs..I saw that play too...and even the announcers finally admitted that they believed the ball was poked out by #7...and I gave mays props on that play as the one where he DID wrap up instead of going for the big hit. As for the TD....I believe it was the first TD (first half)...in which the runner bounced off him and went in for the score...and Mays never put his arms out...just went for the kill shot.
I agree that you don't get honors if you don't make tackles...but I am also saying that this kid has shown in THIS game that he is not as disciplined as I would like to see.
I guess I am less impressed with the BIG HIT and more impressed with the DEAD ON TECHNIQUE guy. If we had a D that tackled well already, go for the big hit...but right now we need disciplined technicians who wrap up the runner IN ADDITION to bringing the wood.
If Curry is there, I go that route. If not, Mays may be the option.
Look, I respect your opinion but in this case - I think you're running with the exception and not the rule. Mays has about the best football defensive coach you can have teaching the art of tackling, which is a lost art in Cleveland so this kid jumped off the tv at me. I don't need to hear someone else tell me that someone else MIGHT have caused the fumble when he's showing me a replay 4 times that only 1 player caused the fumble. All Herby had to do was WATCH what we kept seeing and he would have seen the other USC kid with his back to the play. Instead Herbie was doing his John Madden impersonation and describing something completely different than the tv screen was showing us.
Curry is a NICE choice and I think yesterday put him quite a bit of Rey IMO. I wouldn't have ANY problem with Curry. That said, if they're projecting Clay Matthews for round 2 - I think I can find reason to HOPE we go Mays then Matthews at 1 and 2. I watched a USC game earlier this year where they said Matthews was the backup so I think what's happened is he's continued to improve into what we witnessed yesterday. Was anyone more impressive than Matthews at the LBer position? Do our LBers ever sack QBs? Or hit them during the pass? Matthews was so impressive that we barely noticed the better known kids like Rey and Cushing. I think the other ILBer is VERY underrated in that defense.
He made a ratload of tackles where you want your ILBers making them.
- Tom F.
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JewDago mentioned the idea of drafting Mays a month or so ago in one of those draft threads, and I said I wasn't sure about drafting a safety when I feel Jones and Pool are pretty solid. At least not the first area to address on the defensive side of the ball.
Since then, I've made a point to watch some USC games, and I have to take back what I said. He is certainly a beast. His play reminds me alot of Sean Taylor. Maybe it also has to do with his size and speed. But I wouldn't complain if he ended up on this team. I haven't ever been sold on Maualuga. He is as others have said in this thread, inconsistent. I do love Curry. He does play alot like Patrick Willis. And I am hesitant to try and justify taking a safety in the top 5 picks. I know it probably shouldn't matter what position he plays if someone is talented enough to justify the draft position.
And I too would love to see Clay Matthews on the Browns. I felt it was partly for sentimental reasons, but after watching USC play a few times over the last 2 months, there are a lot more reasons to draft him in my book, that have nothing to do with who his father is. And I'm hoping that we stick with a 3-4 defense.
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Listen guys...I 'like' Mays. I think he has a lot of potential. But I keep coming back to the fact that our #1 and #2 NEEDS in this draft are LB and DE.
While Mays may very well be an improvement over what we have....there is NOTHING at LB and DE currently that I feel comfortable with...and if we improve there...I think the guys we have at S would be plenty good enough to get the job done.
Jones and Pool were both injured last year...but still played decent ball. If they had a little less time that they needed to cover...and a little less run support REQUIRED....they will get the job done.
I don't think adding a S is going to significantly improve our pass rush or run stoppage.
I would far prefer we get Curry and then a DE in round 2....maybe Tyson Jackson out of LSU if he slips a bit.
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Listen guys...I 'like' Mays. I think he has a lot of potential. But I keep coming back to the fact that our #1 and #2 NEEDS in this draft are LB and DE.
While Mays may very well be an improvement over what we have....there is NOTHING at LB and DE currently that I feel comfortable with...and if we improve there...I think the guys we have at S would be plenty good enough to get the job done.
Jones and Pool were both injured last year...but still played decent ball. If they had a little less time that they needed to cover...and a little less run support REQUIRED....they will get the job done.
I don't think adding a S is going to significantly improve our pass rush or run stoppage.
I would far prefer we get Curry and then a DE in round 2....maybe Tyson Jackson out of LSU if he slips a bit.
I don't think adding a S is going to significantly improve our pass rush or run stoppage.
How much does having Bob Sanders on the field help Indy stop the run?
I am not advocating picking Mays, but he could have as much impact stopping the run as any ILB in the draft. I certainly think he'd help more than Rey.
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Nope, not even close.
1. He turned his body sideways before contact.
2. He left his feet and went high (unnecessary roughness in NFL)
3. He hit helmet to helmet (unnecessary roughness in NFL)
4. He left his arms tucked underneath him/no wrap up
Text book is going shoulder first with arms extended to the chest/mid-section. Not leaving your feet, going high, turning your body, and leaving your arms tucked beneath you.
1. He turned his shoulder into the guy.
2. Agree, didn't need to leave his feet. But I saw him excellerate off his feet right before contact.
3. It was not helmet to helmet. That was all shoulder. Bad call by the refs.
4. He is not tackling, he is seperating the WR fromt he ball when the ball arrives. This is a routine play by top safties in the NFL.
5. Did the WR catch the ball?
That is text book for making a tackle in open space, not for seperating a WR from the football, when the ball is just arriving.
Masters said:
1. He turned his shoulder into the guy.2. Agree, didn't need to leave his feet. But I saw him excellerate off his feet right before contact.
3. It was not helmet to helmet. That was all shoulder. Bad call by the refs.
4. He is not tackling, he is seperating the WR fromt he ball when the ball arrives. This is a routine play by top safties in the NFL.
5. Did the WR catch the ball?
That is text book for making a tackle in open space, not for seperating a WR from the football, when the ball is just arriving.
I saw what you saw Masters. I've watched the play countless times and I've never once seen the spearing described or flagged. The first contact is the shoulder and I could watch it 15 more times and not be convinced otherwise. I think it's evident, announcers don't always watch replays and I think it was clear when they tried to invent another player prying the ball loose from the Penn State RB earlier on in the game as they kept showing a replay of Mays causing the fumble.
I didn't even set out to WANT to see Mays impressing me most. I wanted Rey to intrigue me alot more than he did but I came away most impressed with Clay Matthews and Taylor Mays on that defense. The 3rd most impressive player was the other ILBer on that team. #42??? That might be wrong but he's other Samoan kid that caught my eye for consistency better than Rey. I gotta call it like I saw it though.
I LIKE Curry alot but if we can get the footspeed of Mays and Matthews into our defense in the first 2 rounds on a D that lacks foot speed, I gotta reconsider the bang for buckage if Matthews remains a rd 2 projection. Our defense is slow right now and one of those guys is rumored to run 4.2s and the other runs 4.5s. We got room for that IMO.
- Tom F.
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Masters said:
1. He turned his shoulder into the guy.2. Agree, didn't need to leave his feet. But I saw him excellerate off his feet right before contact.
3. It was not helmet to helmet. That was all shoulder. Bad call by the refs.
4. He is not tackling, he is seperating the WR fromt he ball when the ball arrives. This is a routine play by top safties in the NFL.
5. Did the WR catch the ball?
That is text book for making a tackle in open space, not for seperating a WR from the football, when the ball is just arriving.
I saw what you saw Masters. I've watched the play countless times and I've never once seen the spearing described or flagged. The first contact is the shoulder and I could watch it 15 more times and not be convinced otherwise. I think it's evident, announcers don't always watch replays and I think it was clear when they tried to invent another player prying the ball loose from the Penn State RB earlier on in the game as they kept showing a replay of Mays causing the fumble.
I didn't even set out to WANT to see Mays impressing me most. I wanted Rey to intrigue me alot more than he did but I came away most impressed with Clay Matthews and Taylor Mays on that defense. The 3rd most impressive player was the other ILBer on that team. #42??? That might be wrong but he's other Samoan kid that caught my eye for consistency better than Rey. I gotta call it like I saw it though.
I LIKE Curry alot but if we can get the footspeed of Mays and Matthews into our defense in the first 2 rounds on a D that lacks foot speed, I gotta reconsider the bang for buckage if Matthews remains a rd 2 projection. Our defense is slow right now and one of those guys is rumored to run 4.2s and the other runs 4.5s. We got room for that IMO.
- Tom F.
I saw what you saw Masters. I've watched the play countless times and I've never once seen the spearing described or flagged. The first contact is the shoulder and I could watch it 15 more times and not be convinced otherwise. I think it's evident, announcers don't always watch replays and I think it was clear when they tried to invent another player prying the ball loose from the Penn State RB earlier on in the game as they kept showing a replay of Mays causing the fumble.
I didn't even set out to WANT to see Mays impressing me most. I wanted Rey to intrigue me alot more than he did but I came away most impressed with Clay Matthews and Taylor Mays on that defense. The 3rd most impressive player was the other ILBer on that team. #42??? That might be wrong but he's other Samoan kid that caught my eye for consistency better than Rey. I gotta call it like I saw it though.
I LIKE Curry alot but if we can get the footspeed of Mays and Matthews into our defense in the first 2 rounds on a D that lacks foot speed, I gotta reconsider the bang for buckage if Matthews remains a rd 2 projection. Our defense is slow right now and one of those guys is rumored to run 4.2s and the other runs 4.5s. We got room for that IMO.
- Tom F.
I have liked Mattherws and Cushing over Rey since the USC/OSU game. I went to that game, and Clay Matthews name was called over and over (which made it more painful) for making plays. While Reys name was barely called.
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Listen guys...I 'like' Mays. I think he has a lot of potential. But I keep coming back to the fact that our #1 and #2 NEEDS in this draft are LB and DE.
While Mays may very well be an improvement over what we have....there is NOTHING at LB and DE currently that I feel comfortable with...and if we improve there...I think the guys we have at S would be plenty good enough to get the job done.
Jones and Pool were both injured last year...but still played decent ball. If they had a little less time that they needed to cover...and a little less run support REQUIRED....they will get the job done.
I don't think adding a S is going to significantly improve our pass rush or run stoppage.
I would far prefer we get Curry and then a DE in round 2....maybe Tyson Jackson out of LSU if he slips a bit.
Listen guys...I 'like' Mays. I think he has a lot of potential. But I keep coming back to the fact that our #1 and #2 NEEDS in this draft are LB and DE.
While Mays may very well be an improvement over what we have....there is NOTHING at LB and DE currently that I feel comfortable with...and if we improve there...I think the guys we have at S would be plenty good enough to get the job done.
Jones and Pool were both injured last year...but still played decent ball. If they had a little less time that they needed to cover...and a little less run support REQUIRED....they will get the job done.
I don't think adding a S is going to significantly improve our pass rush or run stoppage.
I would far prefer we get Curry and then a DE in round 2....maybe Tyson Jackson out of LSU if he slips a bit.
WPB, as always, you make some good points. You really do. I'm just trying to open your mind in this debate. Don't they always say you need to draft the best guy available instead of going by need in round 1? Once Mays declares - you're going to see the public wood factor for him go from balsa to sekoya.
In 2007, Sean Jones was arguably the most valuable defensive player we had. In 2008, he had his 2nd knee surgery on the knee he blew out as a rookie and I don't think he's ever regained his form. The game is all about wear and tear and upside. Brodney Pool runs too hot and cold for me to ever get comfortable with when he's even healthy enough to suit up. Some of the guys we STICK with just don't have the upside of a Mays or a Matthews. These guys are currently coached by a former PRO Defensive Coach and I don't think we should underrate that.
A Safety like Eric Turner once took away Ben Coates in a post season game so the RIGHT guy can do more for your pass defense than you think. As Masters points out Bob Sanders or even Polly make opponents game plan exclusively for them. Do you realize Mays is supposed to be FASTER than Polly? That's a FUN guy to have on your side of a chess match. With Mays, he's about 235 pounds carrying that footspeed so he just has a uniqueness about him that reminds us what an Eric Turner type can bring to our defense.
We just spent GNP of several countries overseas on Corey Williams to play DE so I think a new contract incentive to play at a certain weight AFTER he heals up this offseason could work well for him and us. He should be able to play in either scheme since he came from a 4-3 nd had more than 7 sacks in it. Adding Clay Matthews in round 2 gives us a LBer CAPABLE of reaching the QB we lack at this point. We shouldn't have to ALWAYS blitz our Safeties or Corners. That said, I think Mays and Matthews has the speed to give us more than pawns in our plan of attack in the chess match.
- Tom F.
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Actually, the hit WAS helmet to helmet. It was replayed again a little past the point where Aloysius' video lets off. For some damn reason, I forgot to TIVO the game, so I cannot back it up with the other angle they showed, but it was definately helmet to helmet.
If that was Ryan Clark laying out Braylon Edwards you all would have been saying how dirty it was.
Aloy, if you can find the replay past the end of yours it has another replay on it.
That said, the kid is an animal - Sean Taylor, Steve Atwater and John Lynch all in one.
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There are a bunch of clips on YouTube, all too grainy to give you definitive evidence of anything.
Mays could end being a linebacker-sized Bob Sanders. Not a guy who'll gets a lot of picks, but he'll be another LB in the run game and a hitman in the secondary.
Mays is also pretty smart. He got a 1200 on his SAT (old test), which is better than most quarterbacks do.
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