Just A Reminder
-
Who is the cardinals QB? The reason I ask is because I don't know and they have one of the best, if not the best WR in the leauge in Fitzgerald. Zombo is right. QB's make WR not the other way around. Look at Tom Brady. He wasn't throwing to elite WR early in his career yet he still won how many Super Bowls? When Randy Moss came in why do you think he set career and NFL records? Its because he was extremely talented and he had one of the best QB's in the leauge throwing to him. Look Colt is a nice guy but if you see a more talented option then you take it.
-
Zombo said:
Our offensive line ranked better than the Giants, who are playing this week.
http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol
New England played three different running backs, none of whom rushed for more than 667 yards ... playing this week.
As seen everywhere else, the QB makes the receivers, and we will probably be starting two really good young ones this year ...
Let's quit making excuses and get a real quarterback, McFrye.
Zombo
I don't really care who we have at QB next year but the OL statistics you show have the giants 6th for pass blocking. The Browns were 16th. I realize that stats never give you the whole picture, but that's a huge difference in favor of the Giants..
-
Zombo said:
I see the same people that went down with the ship with Frye and Quinn clinging onto Colt because he's a good guy and they want him to get "a real chance".
Give me an asshole that wins football games.
Zombo
OK, I'm not totally sold on the idea we draft Blackmon and give Colt another year to see if he "gets it". We don't have a #1 overall invested in him like the 49ers did in Alex Smith. To me Colt's biggest flaw is taking too long to make a decision what to do with the ball.
I do like RG IIIs skill set, but I DO NOT want the Browns donating the extra 1st round pick to the Rams to move up and get him. We have too many holes on the team to do stuff like that.
-
franchise QBs? sam bradford. every highlight i've seen of him last year was him getting knocked on his ass. the wonder boy josh freeman who took the nfl by storm in his first year, looked like he had been beat up by tyson after every game last year and stunk up the joint. hell it's not their fault. no OL protection. no receivers getting open.
are those guys better than colt mccoy? did they have better receivers or 'were they supposed to make them better?"
TDS 6 INT 6 YDS 2,164 RTG 70.5 bradford 1st round pick (1) notable receivers on IR most of the year but brandon lloyd is better than any one on our team and don't forget about steven jackson. they finished worse than us at 2-14.
TDS 16 INT 22 YDS 3,592 RTG 74.6 freeman 1sr round pick (17) legarette blount is a beast rb. receivers are not much better than ours. finished with the same record as us 4-12.
TDS 14 INT 11 YDS 2,733 RTG 74.6 mccoy 3rd round pick (21) greg little. that's it. finished at 4-12.
all these guys have talent and could be good if not great with a TEAM around them. years ago matt ryan walked into a team ready to make a run. this year same goes for andy dalton. those teams have put all the necessary pieces of the puzzle together which took years BUT they didn't throw away picks on positions that are already filled with capable player.
oh BUT WAIT if we get a franchise qb he'll make the whole team better!
-
This is just funny!
So if someone gives 110% but still sucks donkey dick as a QB... many think we should still keep him? What kind of Cleveland logic is this?
The guy sucks...
I would love to be a top musician making millions... I gave it 20 years of hard work and traveled the USA playing in bands.....so if your logic is correct...
they should just say I wanted it bad enough and I gave it my all.... so just show me the money....
Do any of you colt lovers know anything about life... let alone football...?
Come on..... he just doesn't have franchise star ability!
Why shouldn't we want the best QB available.... instead of settling for someone who gave it 110% but SUCKS!!!!!
Jibz Actions4photographers.com I will bleed Orange & Brown till my last breath! -
This is just funny!
So if someone gives 110% but still sucks donkey dick as a QB... many think we should still keep him? What kind of Cleveland logic is this?
The guy sucks...
I would love to be a top musician making millions... I gave it 20 years of hard work and traveled the USA playing in bands.....so if your logic is correct...
they should just say I wanted it bad enough and I gave it my all.... so just show me the money....
Do any of you colt lovers know anything about life... let alone football...?
Come on..... he just doesn't have franchise star ability!
Why shouldn't we want the best QB available.... instead of settling for someone who gave it 110% but SUCKS!!!!!
This is just funny!
So if someone gives 110% but still sucks donkey dick as a QB... many think we should still keep him? What kind of Cleveland logic is this?
The guy sucks...
I would love to be a top musician making millions... I gave it 20 years of hard work and traveled the USA playing in bands.....so if your logic is correct...
they should just say I wanted it bad enough and I gave it my all.... so just show me the money....
Do any of you colt lovers know anything about life... let alone football...?
Come on..... he just doesn't have franchise star ability!
Why shouldn't we want the best QB available.... instead of settling for someone who gave it 110% but SUCKS!!!!!
There's a best QB available every year, and many of them are greater than the best QB available this year.
-
This is just funny!
So if someone gives 110% but still sucks donkey dick as a QB... many think we should still keep him? What kind of Cleveland logic is this?
The guy sucks...
I would love to be a top musician making millions... I gave it 20 years of hard work and traveled the USA playing in bands.....so if your logic is correct...
they should just say I wanted it bad enough and I gave it my all.... so just show me the money....
Do any of you colt lovers know anything about life... let alone football...?
Come on..... he just doesn't have franchise star ability!
Why shouldn't we want the best QB available.... instead of settling for someone who gave it 110% but SUCKS!!!!!
I would love to be a top musician making millions... I gave it 20 years of hard work and traveled the USA playing in bands.....so if your logic is correct...
they should just say I wanted it bad enough and I gave it my all.... so just show me the money....
Do any of you colt lovers know anything about life... let alone football...?
yeah and you had the suckiest background musicians in your band, right? pleez.
i'm not saying he's the second coming of joe montana or dan marino, but this ring around the rosie shit this team does with it's personnel and coaching staff is ridiulous just because some browns fans want to win now, wah!!!
what's another year for evaluation given the right test parameters? give him a #1 wr with some speed and hands, give him some protection on the right side (the side he scrambles to) give him a running game, then see. you've gotta agree he had none of those last year. and if i could find it i bet i could pull up posts from all you mccoy haters (now) from his rookie year of you guys saying just the opposite shit that you're spouting now.
we've got a chance to really fill in our defense and make it one of the best with enough picks left over to get OL help and a #1 wr, why not use this opportunity?
are you saying that mccoy is at fault for last year? are you saying we're one qb away from making the playoffs or the super bowl? if we draft another qb how many years do we give him until you want him gone?
dude, we'll be lucky to make it to 8-8 next year even with the upgrades i mentioned.
-
This is just funny!
So if someone gives 110% but still sucks donkey dick as a QB... many think we should still keep him? What kind of Cleveland logic is this?
The guy sucks...
I would love to be a top musician making millions... I gave it 20 years of hard work and traveled the USA playing in bands.....so if your logic is correct...
they should just say I wanted it bad enough and I gave it my all.... so just show me the money....
Do any of you colt lovers know anything about life... let alone football...?
Come on..... he just doesn't have franchise star ability!
Why shouldn't we want the best QB available.... instead of settling for someone who gave it 110% but SUCKS!!!!!
This is just funny!
So if someone gives 110% but still sucks donkey dick as a QB... many think we should still keep him? What kind of Cleveland logic is this?
The guy sucks...
I would love to be a top musician making millions... I gave it 20 years of hard work and traveled the USA playing in bands.....so if your logic is correct...
they should just say I wanted it bad enough and I gave it my all.... so just show me the money....
Do any of you colt lovers know anything about life... let alone football...?
Come on..... he just doesn't have franchise star ability!
Why shouldn't we want the best QB available.... instead of settling for someone who gave it 110% but SUCKS!!!!!
your musician analogy is Retarded
-
Zombo said:
If we have a new RT, a stud WR and a 1,200 yard back next year and we are no better than 8-8 and Colt is in the middle of the QB pack, what have we proven?
It will have proven that our D wasn't good enough to go 9-7 or 10-6. i'd take the above scenario (assuming we'd have our same shitty defense). Double our wins and continue to build. The next step would be to fix the D.
-
This will be the sixth time in ten years that a Brady or Manning has won the SB ... superstar QBs don't grow on trees, if you've got a shot at one do you pass it up because your busy conducting an experiment on a third round guy? Zombo
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^'
Really ? You want us to draft a qb in the sixth round ?
-
Zombo said:
No, you see, they knew Brady was The Man in the first year he started.
If you have The Man then you don't have to draft QBs early.
If you are kinda hopey-prayey that the nice young man is THE man ... you don't pass up a stud.
Zombo
Where's the stud we're passing up?
Luck isn't making it to us. Other than him, all I see is a system QB, a 28 year old rookie, and a guy who is this year's Christian Ponder.
-
well one thing is for sure: come that friday night draft night some of us will be happy and some of us will be pissed. i'm willing to let it play out as i think heckert will do what's best for the team and not fall into some hype-driven campaign by some agent looking for the big commission check.
-
Zombo said:
You don't HAVE to give him anything.
That's what the Quinn Apologists and the Frye Apologists said ... and my how their careers blossomed once they left Cleveland.
You only have one year in the system invested in McCoy, if they see someone with better tools and a higher ceiling that is available then by all means grab him, we don't owe Colt anything. It's a Big Boy league. Colt is a late third round pick that has played like a late third round pick, if there is a better QB out there for the Cleveland Browns, then by all means grab him.
All the off-seasons in the world aren't going to make him taller or his arm much stronger, they have to decide if has the tools to win with or not instead of wasting another year trying to find out.
Make a gut call and move on.
Zombo
This is absolutely the perfect response to the Colt problem. It's today's NFL, you show the tools to succeed now and not later. We don't owe him anything, he's had 22 ish starts now to prove he's got it. Stop marring his ability on everything else. A QB in the NFL either has it or he doesn't.
This is absolutely the perfect response to the Colt problem. It's today's NFL, you show the tools to succeed now and not later. We don't owe him anything, he's had 22 ish starts now to prove he's got it. Stop marring his ability on everything else. A QB in the NFL either has it or he doesn't.
Nope. Couldn't be more wrong. Very Rarely does a QB come into the league and tear it up in his first 22 starts.
The perfect example to compare Colt to is Drew Brees. It is perfect because they are both "undersized" and were/are in similar situations. Bad to average Oline, and no talent to throw to. The big difference was when Bree was given the starting job in year 2 he had LT in his second year as well. They also had very similar scouting reports coming out of college. Brees looked to be a huge bust in his first 2-3 years. His numbers in his first 2 years as a starter are almost identical to Colts through his first 2 years. Brees turned out rather well.
Not saying that Colt is the answer. What I am saying is changing from one young QB to another every other year isn't the answer. As it stands now we have no weapons on offense. We should fill those holes first to give whomever the QB is a chance to succeed. We should also go out and improve the line to give whomever the QB is a chance to survive. In the meantime though we should give Colt a full off season and with some actual talent around him to see if the offense can grow.
-
This is absolutely the perfect response to the Colt problem. It's today's NFL, you show the tools to succeed now and not later. We don't owe him anything, he's had 22 ish starts now to prove he's got it. Stop marring his ability on everything else. A QB in the NFL either has it or he doesn't.
Nope. Couldn't be more wrong. Very Rarely does a QB come into the league and tear it up in his first 22 starts.
The perfect example to compare Colt to is Drew Brees. It is perfect because they are both "undersized" and were/are in similar situations. Bad to average Oline, and no talent to throw to. The big difference was when Bree was given the starting job in year 2 he had LT in his second year as well. They also had very similar scouting reports coming out of college. Brees looked to be a huge bust in his first 2-3 years. His numbers in his first 2 years as a starter are almost identical to Colts through his first 2 years. Brees turned out rather well.
Not saying that Colt is the answer. What I am saying is changing from one young QB to another every other year isn't the answer. As it stands now we have no weapons on offense. We should fill those holes first to give whomever the QB is a chance to succeed. We should also go out and improve the line to give whomever the QB is a chance to survive. In the meantime though we should give Colt a full off season and with some actual talent around him to see if the offense can grow.
Nope. Couldn't be more wrong. Very Rarely does a QB come into the league and tear it up in his first 22 starts.
The perfect example to compare Colt to is Drew Brees. It is perfect because they are both "undersized" and were/are in similar situations. Bad to average Oline, and no talent to throw to. The big difference was when Bree was given the starting job in year 2 he had LT in his second year as well. They also had very similar scouting reports coming out of college. Brees looked to be a huge bust in his first 2-3 years. His numbers in his first 2 years as a starter are almost identical to Colts through his first 2 years. Brees turned out rather well.
Not saying that Colt is the answer. What I am saying is changing from one young QB to another every other year isn't the answer. As it stands now we have no weapons on offense. We should fill those holes first to give whomever the QB is a chance to succeed. We should also go out and improve the line to give whomever the QB is a chance to survive. In the meantime though we should give Colt a full off season and with some actual talent around him to see if the offense can grow.
How many times do I have to say that comparing Colt to Drew Brees is extremely ignorant? His first two real years in the league were 2002-2003. This was the peak of the era of football where QB's needed time to develop because defense was stressed and offense was something not as important. Since Goddell and the gang has arrived The game of football has completely changed. Today's NFL is all about having an offensive, passing team that wins games and having a front four that can pressure the QB. Whether you think it's fair or not, the learning curve for QB's has risen due to these changes. Do you think it's a coincidence that all these franchise guys of the last 4 years started early and often? It's easy to see the pattern here: Ryan, Stafford, Flacco, Newton, Bradford (hurt about all this season), Dalton, Freeman and the like. They show from DAY 1 they can win or at least light it up on bad team to mediocre teams.
That's it, plain and simple. Holmgren obviously understands this and has made it clear that he's bringing in someone to compete with the guy. Does that scream like confidence from a guy who knows more about QB's than everyone on this board combined? So, stop comparing colt to Brees, Manning, Marino hell I even saw Bradshaw haha. The game then and the game now aren't the same and those who have their eyes open realize that. Just think if we had this same mentality with Quinn and Anderson. they both went to team with better talent and they sure shined didn't they?
-
Zombo said:
All YOU see.
NFL Scouts are extremely high on Robert Griffin III. I wouldn't be surprised if the Browns are too.
Don't by shy ... go ahead and look at their scouting reports.
And let me know who has the edge in arm strength, release, accuracy, footwork, speed, intelligence ... in fact, explain to me what quarterback skills that Colt McCoy has that Griffin is lacking, I'd be interested to know.
Zombo
I have been reading the scouting reports. Seems to me they're carbon copies of those for Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young, etc. NFL Scouts were extremely high on them as well. The only difference is people are falling in love with his "athleticism" (read: 4.3 speed).
I never said Colt was better than RG3. I don't want Colt to play for us again. I'm just not blowing my wad over RG3 like you have been in every single thread since the Texas Tech game.
-
Zombo said:
You don't HAVE to give him anything.
That's what the Quinn Apologists and the Frye Apologists said ... and my how their careers blossomed once they left Cleveland.
You only have one year in the system invested in McCoy, if they see someone with better tools and a higher ceiling that is available then by all means grab him, we don't owe Colt anything. It's a Big Boy league. Colt is a late third round pick that has played like a late third round pick, if there is a better QB out there for the Cleveland Browns, then by all means grab him.
All the off-seasons in the world aren't going to make him taller or his arm much stronger, they have to decide if has the tools to win with or not instead of wasting another year trying to find out.
Make a gut call and move on.
Zombo
First down and 10: McCoy is under center and takes snap with a planned 3 yard drop. After 2 steps he has to duck and fling it into the stands or get creamed.
2nd down and 10: (Hillis is sick with strep throat, or a bad hammie or is on the rag or something) McCoy hands to Hardesty or Ooglyboogly up the middle for 2 yards.
3rd down and 8: Browns send two receivers out (Robiskie and Mass) that are cover by 5 defenders and McCoy incompletes a pass to uh uh uh nobody.
Our O-line is great. Our RB's are great. Our WR's are great. Our play calling is great. Our QB sucks. i wish he was two inches taller.
First down and 10: McCoy is under center and takes snap with a planned 3 yard drop. After 2 steps he has to duck and fling it into the stands or get creamed.
2nd down and 10: (Hillis is sick with strep throat, or a bad hammie or is on the rag or something) McCoy hands to Hardesty or Ooglyboogly up the middle for 2 yards.
3rd down and 8: Browns send two receivers out (Robiskie and Mass) that are cover by 5 defenders and McCoy incompletes a pass to uh uh uh nobody.
You forget...the Browns send two receivers out on 3rd and 8, and they both run 4-5 yard patterns....and even if the catch the ball they are tackled short of the first down.
Our O-line is great. Our RB's are great. Our WR's are great. Our play calling is great. Our QB sucks. i wish he was two inches taller.
-
This will be the sixth time in ten years that a Brady or Manning has won the SB ... superstar QBs don't grow on trees, if you've got a shot at one do you pass it up because your busy conducting an experiment on a third round guy? Zombo
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^'
Really ? You want us to draft a qb in the sixth round ?
This will be the sixth time in ten years that a Brady or Manning has won the SB ... superstar QBs don't grow on trees, if you've got a shot at one do you pass it up because your busy conducting an experiment on a third round guy? Zombo
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^'
Really ? You want us to draft a qb in the sixth round ?
Even if the Browns take RGIII, and I am not opposed to it, he will have to take the job, because I see no reason why McCoy would still not be here, why he still would not be the designated starting QB even if RGIII is here to challenge him.
And that is what it would be: a QB challenge. In fact, I look forward to that. Every team has to have 3 QBs on the roster, so if you have RGIII, McCoy, and Wallace on board, what is so bad about that?
As they say : BRING IT ON. May the best man win.
-
Zombo said:
So you don't really have anything specific you don't like about Griffin other than naming a bunch of guys that were busts. I guess this is the part where I name guys that weren't busts
Let's keep avoiding franchise quarterbacks ... that's been working well for us. Good plan of action.
Zombo
I don't like the fact most of his passes were to wide open receivers. I don't like the fact that he's 6'1 in heels. I don't like the fact that until this last season, he wasn't a "franchise QB" and nobody had even heard of him. I don't like the fact that he very rarely took snaps under center. I don't like the fact that he only played two defenses in the top 50, and that most of his wins came against teams ranked 100th or higher in defense. I don't like the fact that he's a Big 12 QB, where it seems like system QB's run rampant.
I don't like the fact that people are trying to find another Cam Newton in RG3, which isn't going to happen.
I don't want us to avoid taking a franchise QB, I just want us to stop making stupid draft picks. In three years, RG3 will be another one of those stupid draft picks.
-
Nope. Couldn't be more wrong. Very Rarely does a QB come into the league and tear it up in his first 22 starts.
The perfect example to compare Colt to is Drew Brees. It is perfect because they are both "undersized" and were/are in similar situations. Bad to average Oline, and no talent to throw to. The big difference was when Bree was given the starting job in year 2 he had LT in his second year as well. They also had very similar scouting reports coming out of college. Brees looked to be a huge bust in his first 2-3 years. His numbers in his first 2 years as a starter are almost identical to Colts through his first 2 years. Brees turned out rather well.
Not saying that Colt is the answer. What I am saying is changing from one young QB to another every other year isn't the answer. As it stands now we have no weapons on offense. We should fill those holes first to give whomever the QB is a chance to succeed. We should also go out and improve the line to give whomever the QB is a chance to survive. In the meantime though we should give Colt a full off season and with some actual talent around him to see if the offense can grow.
How many times do I have to say that comparing Colt to Drew Brees is extremely ignorant? His first two real years in the league were 2002-2003. This was the peak of the era of football where QB's needed time to develop because defense was stressed and offense was something not as important. Since Goddell and the gang has arrived The game of football has completely changed. Today's NFL is all about having an offensive, passing team that wins games and having a front four that can pressure the QB. Whether you think it's fair or not, the learning curve for QB's has risen due to these changes. Do you think it's a coincidence that all these franchise guys of the last 4 years started early and often? It's easy to see the pattern here: Ryan, Stafford, Flacco, Newton, Bradford (hurt about all this season), Dalton, Freeman and the like. They show from DAY 1 they can win or at least light it up on bad team to mediocre teams.
That's it, plain and simple. Holmgren obviously understands this and has made it clear that he's bringing in someone to compete with the guy. Does that scream like confidence from a guy who knows more about QB's than everyone on this board combined? So, stop comparing colt to Brees, Manning, Marino hell I even saw Bradshaw haha. The game then and the game now aren't the same and those who have their eyes open realize that. Just think if we had this same mentality with Quinn and Anderson. they both went to team with better talent and they sure shined didn't they?
How many times do I have to say that comparing Colt to Drew Brees is extremely ignorant? His first two real years in the league were 2002-2003. This was the peak of the era of football where QB's needed time to develop because defense was stressed and offense was something not as important. Since Goddell and the gang has arrived The game of football has completely changed. Today's NFL is all about having an offensive, passing team that wins games and having a front four that can pressure the QB. Whether you think it's fair or not, the learning curve for QB's has risen due to these changes. Do you think it's a coincidence that all these franchise guys of the last 4 years started early and often? It's easy to see the pattern here: Ryan, Stafford, Flacco, Newton, Bradford (hurt about all this season), Dalton, Freeman and the like. They show from DAY 1 they can win or at least light it up on bad team to mediocre teams.
That's it, plain and simple. Holmgren obviously understands this and has made it clear that he's bringing in someone to compete with the guy. Does that scream like confidence from a guy who knows more about QB's than everyone on this board combined? So, stop comparing colt to Brees, Manning, Marino hell I even saw Bradshaw haha. The game then and the game now aren't the same and those who have their eyes open realize that. Just think if we had this same mentality with Quinn and Anderson. they both went to team with better talent and they sure shined didn't they?
The Colt/Brees comparison was further then just a physical/statistical comparison. It was a comparison of situation. If you throw RGIII or even Luck into the same mess Colt has they would probably do shit. Like I said I don't know if Colt is the answer. I just know there are a ton of other holes on the offense that need to be addressed before another young QB can succeed so why not fix them first and lets see what Colt can do with them. Colt has shown both good and bad. NFL QB is the hardest position in pro sports to play. You have to atleast give him a shot to grow into the position ...changing QB every year or every other year is going to accomplish nothing. We just need to pick a direction and go.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login