Taylor Mays & Clay Matthews
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There are a bunch of clips on YouTube, all too grainy to give you definitive evidence of anything.
Mays could end being a linebacker-sized Bob Sanders. Not a guy who'll gets a lot of picks, but he'll be another LB in the run game and a hitman in the secondary.
Mays is also pretty smart. He got a 1200 on his SAT (old test), which is better than most quarterbacks do.
Aloysius said:
There are a bunch of clips on YouTube, all too grainy to give you definitive evidence of anything.Mays could end being a linebacker-sized Bob Sanders. Not a guy who'll gets a lot of picks, but he'll be another LB in the run game and a hitman in the secondary.
Mays is also pretty smart. He got a 1200 on his SAT (old test), which is better than most quarterbacks do.
Aloy,
You are just MONEY!
About your concerns of Matthews OVER Curry. I'm stating I want Mays over Curry with Matthews becoming the 2nd round compensation for the LBer position. We don't know that Matthews can't play ILBer. Matthews is allegedly projected for round 2 but here's a kid that's just STARTING to show people what he can do. We're seeing upside and the reality that there's more to come. That right there pretty much explains why Clay stoled the show from the other LBers yesterday. There's no way anyone leaves that game with the impression that Clay Matthews isn't their best LBer right now as opposed to 7-10 weeks ago. We've made alot mistakes when we've contemplated upside vrs best football already played.
Clay's FATHER, self-described as being less athletic than his son, was awesome enough to play inside AND Outside LBer for us during his long tenure here. His kid will be the same way because he's a big boy with better foot speed than dad.
On Clay's final hit on the QB yesterday, didn't they line him up at ILBer? I thought I saw him standing up at the G-C gap and he just shot right through it. He's got that quickness that's innate. He'll be 3rd generation of pro football player in the bloodlines. While I LIKED every highlight I saw on Curry and I now like him better than Rey - I STILL think getting Mays in round 1 with Matthews in round 2 realy improves the footspeed lacking on our defense at this time. You can do so much more with creativity when you got speed like that in your lineup. Pittsburgh's defense in 2007 wasn't anything like it was in 2008 and the biggest difference? Polly is healthy and Dick LeBeau has alot of fun. That said, look how Baltimore can have fun with a guy like Ed Reed.
If you were told to pick a LBer for us after the game yesterday and your choices were: Lauranitis, Curry, Rey, Cushing or Matthews - who would you pick? My fondness for Curry is off a collection of his greatest plays. I'm impressed but who watches Wake Forrest play football very often? Can Curry takeover a game like Matthews did against a much better opponent than Navy? I'm REALLY starting to dig the idea of Mays in round 1 and Matthews in round 2 if doable. Our defense lacks footspeed, which shows up in so many different ways. These 2 kids bring us 4.2s and 4.5s, which is ideal for both positions of need on our roster. For example, how about a blitz that touches the passer BEFORE he throws the ball? We used to have those when we looked to USC for it.
- Tom F.
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Aloysius said:
There are a bunch of clips on YouTube, all too grainy to give you definitive evidence of anything.Mays could end being a linebacker-sized Bob Sanders. Not a guy who'll gets a lot of picks, but he'll be another LB in the run game and a hitman in the secondary.
Mays is also pretty smart. He got a 1200 on his SAT (old test), which is better than most quarterbacks do.
Aloy,
You are just MONEY!
About your concerns of Matthews OVER Curry. I'm stating I want Mays over Curry with Matthews becoming the 2nd round compensation for the LBer position. We don't know that Matthews can't play ILBer. Matthews is allegedly projected for round 2 but here's a kid that's just STARTING to show people what he can do. We're seeing upside and the reality that there's more to come. That right there pretty much explains why Clay stoled the show from the other LBers yesterday. There's no way anyone leaves that game with the impression that Clay Matthews isn't their best LBer right now as opposed to 7-10 weeks ago. We've made alot mistakes when we've contemplated upside vrs best football already played.
Clay's FATHER, self-described as being less athletic than his son, was awesome enough to play inside AND Outside LBer for us during his long tenure here. His kid will be the same way because he's a big boy with better foot speed than dad.
On Clay's final hit on the QB yesterday, didn't they line him up at ILBer? I thought I saw him standing up at the G-C gap and he just shot right through it. He's got that quickness that's innate. He'll be 3rd generation of pro football player in the bloodlines. While I LIKED every highlight I saw on Curry and I now like him better than Rey - I STILL think getting Mays in round 1 with Matthews in round 2 realy improves the footspeed lacking on our defense at this time. You can do so much more with creativity when you got speed like that in your lineup. Pittsburgh's defense in 2007 wasn't anything like it was in 2008 and the biggest difference? Polly is healthy and Dick LeBeau has alot of fun. That said, look how Baltimore can have fun with a guy like Ed Reed.
If you were told to pick a LBer for us after the game yesterday and your choices were: Lauranitis, Curry, Rey, Cushing or Matthews - who would you pick? My fondness for Curry is off a collection of his greatest plays. I'm impressed but who watches Wake Forrest play football very often? Can Curry takeover a game like Matthews did against a much better opponent than Navy? I'm REALLY starting to dig the idea of Mays in round 1 and Matthews in round 2 if doable. Our defense lacks footspeed, which shows up in so many different ways. These 2 kids bring us 4.2s and 4.5s, which is ideal for both positions of need on our roster. For example, how about a blitz that touches the passer BEFORE he throws the ball? We used to have those when we looked to USC for it.
- Tom F.
I want Mays over Curry with Matthews becoming the 2nd round compensation for the LBer position. We don't know that Matthews can't play ILBer. Matthews is allegedly projected for round 2 but here's a kid that's just STARTING to show people what he can do. We're seeing upside and the reality that there's more to come. That right there pretty much explains why Clay stoled the show from the other LBers yesterday. There's no way anyone leaves that game with the impression that Clay Matthews isn't their best LBer right now as opposed to 7-10 weeks ago. We've made alot mistakes when we've contemplated upside vrs best football already played.
Fair enough.
About a month ago, I predicted that Matthews would be a 5 sacks per year kind of guy. After watching a lot more of him, I think he could be significantly more than that. And if that's the case, then it'd be a waste to stick him inside in a 3-4.
Maybe you could turn him into a lunch pail version of Lawrence Timmons: a guy whose position nominally is ILB, but who lines up to rush the passer from a multitude of different spots. Still, I'm not sure I see an everydown ILB in Matthews. But as I said, I've already been wrong about this guy before...
If you were told to pick a LBer for us after the game yesterday and your choices were: Lauranitis, Curry, Rey, Cushing or Matthews - who would you pick? My fondness for Curry is off a collection of his greatest plays. I'm impressed but who watches Wake Forrest play football very often? Can Curry takeover a game like Matthews did against a much better opponent than Navy?
By the way, I have a lot of respect for you being willing to say you're not entirely comfortable with Curry because you haven't seen a lot of Wake Forest. Not having seen a lot of Wake makes you normal, and not pre-judging Curry makes you a very responsible poster.
By contrast, I'm completely insane, so I've watched more of Curry than I have of Maualuga this year. And I can say with confidence that Curry has games like Matthews' performance yesterday. He may be a little more raw as a pass-rusher, but that's because he's been too disruptive a force in other areas for the coaches to blitz him every down. I mean, you're talking about a guy who returned 3 picks for TD's last year and who's been called "an absolute terror in the run game" by Todd McShay. He can take over games, though he usually does it in more subtle ways than hitting the quarterback.
An example: getting an open-field tackle on a play in which he was the only guy who wasn't tricked by the reverse. Had he not been the smart guy & the form tackler, that would have gone for six & altered the momentum of the Clemson game. Instead, he made it a run for negative yardage.
And you have the Virginia game this year in which Curry had a FF (& recovery), a QB hit that led to an interception, a pass deflection, and a few TFL's, including one that occurred at Wake's 5 yard line.
For a guy likely to move inside in a 3-4, that's pretty good stuff. I think it matches up well with the production and potential that a guy like Taylor Mays offers.
Like JewDago, I'd be cool with drafting either one of those guys. But at this point, I think I'd go with Curry.
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the potential remains that the Browns trade out of the 5th pick, down to perhaps 10th and can maybe pick up a second 2nd round pick. I think this could potentially be a good situation if it provides the Browns the opportunity to select Mays in the 1st round, and Matthews in the 2nd, while having another 2nd round pick to snag Greene.
Tho, if Chris Wells decides to come back, I find it hard to believe that Greene will make it to round 2. He'd quickly become the 1st or 2nd rated RB in the draft. And Moreno has the potential to remain at UGA for his junior season. I think his decision rides more on what Stafford does.
There aren't a lot of RBs to get excited about in this years draft. Wells, Greene, Moreno, and that kid from Liberty I suppose. I'm 100% against a guy like Ringer. His stats are misleading. YPC are low. He had a lot of TDs because he was their offense. if you give Jamal Lewis 450-500 carries, he'd have 1500yds too.
The other guy I do like is the big back from Oregon. Not the guy slated to come out this year, Jeremiah Johnson #24, but LeGarrette Blount #9. Junior, JuCo transfer, 6'2" 240lbs. He was their secondary RB this season, with Johnson getting most of the work. In that role, he averaged over 7ypc, had 900+ yds and 16tds. I honestly have no idea if he's going to come out this year. I don't follow a whole lot of pac-10 football. But I'd assume he'll stay to have the fulltime job next season.
or
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@shepwrite said:
I'm not huge on DBs up high, but Mays would be that kind of guy. I would put him up there with Curry on my list now (Rey-Rey fell off for me, too). I'm waiting to see what Beanie does, but I'm thinking the notion of getting Shonn Greene in round 2 will become outdated soon.I think you're right about Greene. Ironically, our hiring his college coach to be our HC could make it less likely that Shonn ends up in Cleveland. Because of that relationship, any teams interested in Greene will be looking to trade up ahead of us. And with our small set of picks this year, I don't know if we have the ammo to trade up ourselves into the late 1st to make sure we get him.
Of course, all of this could change if Greene doesn't work out well or runs a poor 40 at the Combine. But as of now, I'm thinking we may end up having to look elsewhere for our young stud RB.
An interesting draft nugget: if you look the last ten year's drafts, it's a virtual lock that between 5-7 running backs will be taken in the first two rounds. The only exception to that rule is the 2003 draft, in which Willis McGahee and Larry Johnson were the only decent RB's available.
What this means is that if you can find 8 or 9 running backs that you think can be decent pro's, you can afford to wait until the 3rd Round to draft your guy. That's especially true if you're planning on using him as a committee back.
If we get a 3rd for DA, I wouldn't be surprised if we ended up taking our RB there. Maybe Rashad Jennings falls, or maybe we make Russ's day and "reach" for Tyrell Sutton.
Either way, we should be able to find a back that can contribute next year, especially if Kirk Ferentz is making our o-line even better.
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as aloy has said, i'm fine with either curry or mays. we just have to hope that we have the chance to pick either. there's also the chance that we could fleece oakland into giving us a pick (any pick) to trade with them so they can get mays, though i'd be fairly upset if we came out of this draft without either mays or curry in the first.
chung is a great option in the second if we go curry in the first, but i don't see him as a huge upgrade over the guys we currently have, so it's somewhat of a moot point. if we don't get mays in the first, and therefore need to take a pass rusher in the second, we need to go RB in round two.
taking a DB in the top 10 is an interesting prospect; since 2002, here are the top 10 selections at CB and S:
quentin jammer cb
roy williams s
terence newman cb
sean taylor s
deangelo hall cb
dunta robinson cb
adam jones cb
antrel rolle cb/s
carlos rogers cb
michael huff s
donte whitner s
laron landry s
of that list, jammer, hall, robinson, rolle and huff qualify as guys who haven't performed to their draft status. only one is a pure safety. three of the other four are pure corners, and rolle is a man without a position. he's not quite fast enough to play corner but doesn't know safety well enough yet. he's coming on, though, and is a possible exclusion from the list.
the point of all of this is that safeties taken in the top 10 are normally special players, something mays has definitely shown himself as having the potential to be. when picking in the top 10, especially the top 5, you're looking at floor, ceiling and team need, likely in that order, to determine who you want to draft.
between curry and mays, i'd say mays has the higher ceiling, curry the higher floor and the browns need an ILB more than a safety. personally, i'm a bit enamored with mays. he's flashy; i like that. i also haven't seen curry play, which means that i'm not really qualified to evaluate him.
matthews might sneak into the first after the way he came on towards the end of the season. if he decides to play in the shrine game or any other senior-type bowl and plays well, his stock will soar.
being able to subtly take over a game is what an ILB does. he doesn't get to the QB, but he patrols the middle and takes away throwing and running lanes, which it sounds like is exactly what curry knows how to do, much like patrick willis.
last, lagarrette blount is a monster. he stood out in the oregon/oklahoma state game as someone who runs with power and absolutely demoralizes the opposing defense. brandon jacobs. he could be huge in the league.
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Mays highlighs
The guy looks like he is playing angry - frankly his reaction after some of those hits is very Ray Lewis like. As long he we aren't calling him 'Stabber Mays' in 3 years...I'm all in.
That's the kind of guy we need in secondary. We had one, although slower, in Brian Russell. Too bad we let him go.
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Mays highlighs
The guy looks like he is playing angry - frankly his reaction after some of those hits is very Ray Lewis like. As long he we aren't calling him 'Stabber Mays' in 3 years...I'm all in.
That's the kind of guy we need in secondary. We had one, although slower, in Brian Russell. Too bad we let him go.
The guy looks like he is playing angry - frankly his reaction after some of those hits is very Ray Lewis like. As long he we aren't calling him 'Stabber Mays' in 3 years...I'm all in.
That's the kind of guy we need in secondary. We had one, although slower, in Brian Russell. Too bad we let him go.
we actually let russell go at the exact right time. he's been a ridiculous liability in seattle all year, missing tackles, getting burned, making terry cousin look competent. seahawk fans have been calling for his head on a weekly basis.
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Rey had some great moments.
But Clay Mathews played brilliant, the kid is INTENSE and QUICK. And very instinctive.
BTW, Who was it that they said was the fastest player
on the SoCal team?
I didn't catch it...
but Mays is a fearsome hitter out there. Very quick and smart.
I could be very happy if the Browns could trade down for more picks, (one of them a second), and still pick up the player they want in the first round and Clay and ? in the second.
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Rey had some great moments.
But Clay Mathews played brilliant, the kid is INTENSE and QUICK. And very instinctive.
BTW, Who was it that they said was the fastest player
on the SoCal team?
I didn't catch it...
but Mays is a fearsome hitter out there. Very quick and smart.
I could be very happy if the Browns could trade down for more picks, (one of them a second), and still pick up the player they want in the first round and Clay and ? in the second.
Rey had some great moments.
But Clay Mathews played brilliant, the kid is INTENSE and QUICK. And very instinctive.
BTW, Who was it that they said was the fastest player
on the SoCal team?
I didn't catch it...
but Mays is a fearsome hitter out there. Very quick and smart.
I could be very happy if the Browns could trade down for more picks, (one of them a second), and still pick up the player they want in the first round and Clay and ? in the second.
Mays is the fastest guy on the team. 4.28 speed, supposedly. When was the last time someone with his size had 4.28 speed?
Thinking how polymoomoo takes over a game, and the effect Bob Sanders has when he is and isn't in the Indy lineup - I drool over Mays. I really think a guy like that could make a bigger impact than Curry can because he can perform dual duty in terrorizing runners and catchers. A couple of years ago I watched Brian Dawkins just LIGHT guys up and thought 'the Browns need someone like that'. He gets fined a lot, but as a receiver, you had to be hearing footsteps when he was on the field.
Mays is 240 NOW - he'll easily be 250+ in a couple years. A guy that runs like a WR, weighs in like a linebacker, and hits like an MX Missile. Oh yeah - that's a guy opposing teams have to gameplan around.
Mays in the first, maybe a Matthews in the second? I guess a lot of this depends on how FA shakes out.
I guess I have one concern - the guy is a SUCH a freak...is there something making him that way. I hate to think about it, but it's unavoidable.
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I dont believe in all this unneccesary roughness, helmet to helmet bs, this is football, its a rough sport, people are going soft.
Thats the risk you take when you put on a Jersey
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I want Mays over Curry with Matthews becoming the 2nd round compensation for the LBer position. We don't know that Matthews can't play ILBer. Matthews is allegedly projected for round 2 but here's a kid that's just STARTING to show people what he can do. We're seeing upside and the reality that there's more to come. That right there pretty much explains why Clay stoled the show from the other LBers yesterday. There's no way anyone leaves that game with the impression that Clay Matthews isn't their best LBer right now as opposed to 7-10 weeks ago. We've made alot mistakes when we've contemplated upside vrs best football already played.
Fair enough.
About a month ago, I predicted that Matthews would be a 5 sacks per year kind of guy. After watching a lot more of him, I think he could be significantly more than that. And if that's the case, then it'd be a waste to stick him inside in a 3-4.
Maybe you could turn him into a lunch pail version of Lawrence Timmons: a guy whose position nominally is ILB, but who lines up to rush the passer from a multitude of different spots. Still, I'm not sure I see an everydown ILB in Matthews. But as I said, I've already been wrong about this guy before...
If you were told to pick a LBer for us after the game yesterday and your choices were: Lauranitis, Curry, Rey, Cushing or Matthews - who would you pick? My fondness for Curry is off a collection of his greatest plays. I'm impressed but who watches Wake Forrest play football very often? Can Curry takeover a game like Matthews did against a much better opponent than Navy?
By the way, I have a lot of respect for you being willing to say you're not entirely comfortable with Curry because you haven't seen a lot of Wake Forest. Not having seen a lot of Wake makes you normal, and not pre-judging Curry makes you a very responsible poster.
By contrast, I'm completely insane, so I've watched more of Curry than I have of Maualuga this year. And I can say with confidence that Curry has games like Matthews' performance yesterday. He may be a little more raw as a pass-rusher, but that's because he's been too disruptive a force in other areas for the coaches to blitz him every down. I mean, you're talking about a guy who returned 3 picks for TD's last year and who's been called "an absolute terror in the run game" by Todd McShay. He can take over games, though he usually does it in more subtle ways than hitting the quarterback.
An example: getting an open-field tackle on a play in which he was the only guy who wasn't tricked by the reverse. Had he not been the smart guy & the form tackler, that would have gone for six & altered the momentum of the Clemson game. Instead, he made it a run for negative yardage.
And you have the Virginia game this year in which Curry had a FF (& recovery), a QB hit that led to an interception, a pass deflection, and a few TFL's, including one that occurred at Wake's 5 yard line.
For a guy likely to move inside in a 3-4, that's pretty good stuff. I think it matches up well with the production and potential that a guy like Taylor Mays offers.
Like JewDago, I'd be cool with drafting either one of those guys. But at this point, I think I'd go with Curry.
Aloysius said:
Fair enough.About a month ago, I predicted that Matthews would be a 5 sacks per year kind of guy. After watching a lot more of him, I think he could be significantly more than that. And if that's the case, then it'd be a waste to stick him inside in a 3-4.
For a guy likely to move inside in a 3-4, that's pretty good stuff. I think it matches up well with the production and potential that a guy like Taylor Mays offers.
Like JewDago, I'd be cool with drafting either one of those guys. But at this point, I think I'd go with Curry.
It doesn't sound like any of us are that far off in what we want. You have INDEED sold me on Curry being better than Rey so if I know we're taking a LBer 1st, I'd like it to be Curry. That part I'm with you. As far as WHO could come in and be the sudden impact our defense needs - I think Mays brings more goodies than anyone I've observed. If we're being honest, I haven't seen ANY of the LBers kill the guy with the ball like Mays did. We always complain when we see Ed Reed or Polly that why can't the Browns get an impact player like that. Taylor Mays is on our door step and I have to admit he's my 1A with Curry being my 1B choice THIS week.
If we study football it's all about physics. You run 4.2s with more muscle and weight behind your speed - you're gonna have collisions that send opponents hobbling off the field and seperate them from the football. Didn't we see this? I saw highlights of him from other games doing the same stuff and consistently so he made Consensus All American against a conference of undefeated Bowl Teams. Our team has a doughnut hole in Centerfield from consistent injuries and wear and tear. In 2007, Sean Jones was my favorite defender. In 2008, I saw 1 more surgery on the wheel he blew out as a rookie. That doesn't give me comfort about upside and I'm not SOLD on Brodney Pool at all.
If you look at our division, there's 2 Safeties in it that EVERY opponent wants to know where they are at all times. If they don't, it means they lose. I've ALWAYS wanted RBs or LBers in round 1. This time around I saw Taylor Mays claiming ownership of Centerfield. If we want to compete with the 2 teams making playoffs in our division, let's get wise to snagging the TYPES of players they hit home runs with on draft day.
Regarding Curry: I was really just trying to say I don't think Matthews is THAT much of a drop off from Curry if we go Mays first, Matthews next. It wasn't meant to insult Curry as much as it was meant to illustrate WHERE I see similarities. Trust me when I say you singlehandedly changed the mind of a stubborn old man like me about how intriguing he is. Mayock LOVES Curry too. I just took advantage of a convenient time to say Matthews basically took over the game against the highest ranked opponent on USC's schedule. He's been getting coached up by Ken Norton and Pete Carroll, which means he might be alot more pollished than people think. As Shep reminds me, Matthews was SUCH a good athlete that they didn't know WHERE he'd fit their defense best so he began the year coming in off the bench. Correct me if I'm wrong with this but I think Matthews got moved around quite a bit in that defense the other night, which makes him ideal for a 3-4. That's the kind of guy you want that can play inside or Outside. On the last inside blitz where he drilled Clark in the center of his Chest, Matthews came from an inside blitz and isn't Penn State's Center All Planet? Meanwhile, our ILBers NEVER got to the QB on inside blitzes because tiny RBs like Ray Rice could put D'Qwell Jackson on his seat. Matthews has way better footspeed.
Footspeed, flexibility and physics have me liking the 1-2 draft punch of Mays and Matthews. Unfortunately, Matthews stock is going to prolly get into late round 1. Until that happens, I'm gonna pound this Kool Aid like it's spiked.
- Tom F.
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as aloy has said, i'm fine with either curry or mays. we just have to hope that we have the chance to pick either. there's also the chance that we could fleece oakland into giving us a pick (any pick) to trade with them so they can get mays, though i'd be fairly upset if we came out of this draft without either mays or curry in the first.
chung is a great option in the second if we go curry in the first, but i don't see him as a huge upgrade over the guys we currently have, so it's somewhat of a moot point. if we don't get mays in the first, and therefore need to take a pass rusher in the second, we need to go RB in round two.
taking a DB in the top 10 is an interesting prospect; since 2002, here are the top 10 selections at CB and S:
quentin jammer cb
roy williams s
terence newman cb
sean taylor s
deangelo hall cb
dunta robinson cb
adam jones cb
antrel rolle cb/s
carlos rogers cb
michael huff s
donte whitner s
laron landry s
of that list, jammer, hall, robinson, rolle and huff qualify as guys who haven't performed to their draft status. only one is a pure safety. three of the other four are pure corners, and rolle is a man without a position. he's not quite fast enough to play corner but doesn't know safety well enough yet. he's coming on, though, and is a possible exclusion from the list.
the point of all of this is that safeties taken in the top 10 are normally special players, something mays has definitely shown himself as having the potential to be. when picking in the top 10, especially the top 5, you're looking at floor, ceiling and team need, likely in that order, to determine who you want to draft.
between curry and mays, i'd say mays has the higher ceiling, curry the higher floor and the browns need an ILB more than a safety. personally, i'm a bit enamored with mays. he's flashy; i like that. i also haven't seen curry play, which means that i'm not really qualified to evaluate him.
matthews might sneak into the first after the way he came on towards the end of the season. if he decides to play in the shrine game or any other senior-type bowl and plays well, his stock will soar.
being able to subtly take over a game is what an ILB does. he doesn't get to the QB, but he patrols the middle and takes away throwing and running lanes, which it sounds like is exactly what curry knows how to do, much like patrick willis.
last, lagarrette blount is a monster. he stood out in the oregon/oklahoma state game as someone who runs with power and absolutely demoralizes the opposing defense. brandon jacobs. he could be huge in the league.
as aloy has said, i'm fine with either curry or mays. we just have to hope that we have the chance to pick either. there's also the chance that we could fleece oakland into giving us a pick (any pick) to trade with them so they can get mays, though i'd be fairly upset if we came out of this draft without either mays or curry in the first.
taking a DB in the top 10 is an interesting prospect; since 2002, here are the top 10 selections at CB and S:
quentin jammer cb
roy williams s
terence newman cb
sean taylor s
deangelo hall cb
dunta robinson cb
adam jones cb
antrel rolle cb/s
carlos rogers cb
michael huff s
donte whitner s
laron landry s
I'd NEVER take a CB in round 1. Ever! However, you can't find better first round picks than Eric Turner here or Ed Reed in Balt or Polly in Pitt. You can try but you won't find more impactful players than these Safeties holding down ownership of centerfield for their teams. Bob Sanders was a 2nd round steal for Indy while we're talign importance of what the RIGHT Safety does for a team.
- Tom F.
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Aloysius said:
There are a bunch of clips on YouTube, all too grainy to give you definitive evidence of anything.Mays could end being a linebacker-sized Bob Sanders. Not a guy who'll gets a lot of picks, but he'll be another LB in the run game and a hitman in the secondary.
Mays is also pretty smart. He got a 1200 on his SAT (old test), which is better than most quarterbacks do.
Aloy,
You are just MONEY!
About your concerns of Matthews OVER Curry. I'm stating I want Mays over Curry with Matthews becoming the 2nd round compensation for the LBer position. We don't know that Matthews can't play ILBer. Matthews is allegedly projected for round 2 but here's a kid that's just STARTING to show people what he can do. We're seeing upside and the reality that there's more to come. That right there pretty much explains why Clay stoled the show from the other LBers yesterday. There's no way anyone leaves that game with the impression that Clay Matthews isn't their best LBer right now as opposed to 7-10 weeks ago. We've made alot mistakes when we've contemplated upside vrs best football already played.
Clay's FATHER, self-described as being less athletic than his son, was awesome enough to play inside AND Outside LBer for us during his long tenure here. His kid will be the same way because he's a big boy with better foot speed than dad.
On Clay's final hit on the QB yesterday, didn't they line him up at ILBer? I thought I saw him standing up at the G-C gap and he just shot right through it. He's got that quickness that's innate. He'll be 3rd generation of pro football player in the bloodlines. While I LIKED every highlight I saw on Curry and I now like him better than Rey - I STILL think getting Mays in round 1 with Matthews in round 2 realy improves the footspeed lacking on our defense at this time. You can do so much more with creativity when you got speed like that in your lineup. Pittsburgh's defense in 2007 wasn't anything like it was in 2008 and the biggest difference? Polly is healthy and Dick LeBeau has alot of fun. That said, look how Baltimore can have fun with a guy like Ed Reed.
If you were told to pick a LBer for us after the game yesterday and your choices were: Lauranitis, Curry, Rey, Cushing or Matthews - who would you pick? My fondness for Curry is off a collection of his greatest plays. I'm impressed but who watches Wake Forrest play football very often? Can Curry takeover a game like Matthews did against a much better opponent than Navy? I'm REALLY starting to dig the idea of Mays in round 1 and Matthews in round 2 if doable. Our defense lacks footspeed, which shows up in so many different ways. These 2 kids bring us 4.2s and 4.5s, which is ideal for both positions of need on our roster. For example, how about a blitz that touches the passer BEFORE he throws the ball? We used to have those when we looked to USC for it.
- Tom F.
Aloy,
You are just MONEY!
About your concerns of Matthews OVER Curry. I'm stating I want Mays over Curry with Matthews becoming the 2nd round compensation for the LBer position. We don't know that Matthews can't play ILBer. Matthews is allegedly projected for round 2 but here's a kid that's just STARTING to show people what he can do. We're seeing upside and the reality that there's more to come. That right there pretty much explains why Clay stoled the show from the other LBers yesterday. There's no way anyone leaves that game with the impression that Clay Matthews isn't their best LBer right now as opposed to 7-10 weeks ago. We've made alot mistakes when we've contemplated upside vrs best football already played.
Clay's FATHER, self-described as being less athletic than his son, was awesome enough to play inside AND Outside LBer for us during his long tenure here. His kid will be the same way because he's a big boy with better foot speed than dad.
On Clay's final hit on the QB yesterday, didn't they line him up at ILBer? I thought I saw him standing up at the G-C gap and he just shot right through it. He's got that quickness that's innate. He'll be 3rd generation of pro football player in the bloodlines. While I LIKED every highlight I saw on Curry and I now like him better than Rey - I STILL think getting Mays in round 1 with Matthews in round 2 realy improves the footspeed lacking on our defense at this time. You can do so much more with creativity when you got speed like that in your lineup. Pittsburgh's defense in 2007 wasn't anything like it was in 2008 and the biggest difference? Polly is healthy and Dick LeBeau has alot of fun. That said, look how Baltimore can have fun with a guy like Ed Reed.
If you were told to pick a LBer for us after the game yesterday and your choices were: Lauranitis, Curry, Rey, Cushing or Matthews - who would you pick? My fondness for Curry is off a collection of his greatest plays. I'm impressed but who watches Wake Forrest play football very often? Can Curry takeover a game like Matthews did against a much better opponent than Navy? I'm REALLY starting to dig the idea of Mays in round 1 and Matthews in round 2 if doable. Our defense lacks footspeed, which shows up in so many different ways. These 2 kids bring us 4.2s and 4.5s, which is ideal for both positions of need on our roster. For example, how about a blitz that touches the passer BEFORE he throws the ball? We used to have those when we looked to USC for it.
- Tom F.
Flugs, I have been saying for the past month if the Browns go DEFENSE they need to get a playmaker, we need our Troy Palamalu and the guy in this draft that would help the Browns the most is Taylor Mays, this guy is a game changing type player and what I call a PLAYMAKER, the guy that makes the big plays at crunch time.
I have seen plenty of Curry and he is a very good player, but Curry reminds me so much of Derrick Johnson linebacker with the Chiefs who everyone was predicting great things for a few years ago and he is a good LB but nothing great, don't forget all the hype about A.J. Hawk just a few years ago, and Hawk has done nothing in Green Bay based on where he was drafted.
Flugs, this team needs a dominant pass rusher and looking at the linebackers only Rey Rey and Mathews Jr. stand out as pass rushing linebackers, so I agree with you if we could get a Taylor Mays in round 1 and mathews in round 2 that would be the best for the Browns we get a playmaking safety and pass rusher LB..
FYI, here is a list of linebackers taken in round 1 the past 3 years...2008- Keith Rivers, Jerod Mayo, 2007- Patrick Willis, Lawrence Timmons, Jon Beason ( Great 1st rd for LB's) ...2006- A.J. Hawk, Ernie Sims, Kamerion Wimbley
The Browns must get this pick right
-
Aloy,
You are just MONEY!
About your concerns of Matthews OVER Curry. I'm stating I want Mays over Curry with Matthews becoming the 2nd round compensation for the LBer position. We don't know that Matthews can't play ILBer. Matthews is allegedly projected for round 2 but here's a kid that's just STARTING to show people what he can do. We're seeing upside and the reality that there's more to come. That right there pretty much explains why Clay stoled the show from the other LBers yesterday. There's no way anyone leaves that game with the impression that Clay Matthews isn't their best LBer right now as opposed to 7-10 weeks ago. We've made alot mistakes when we've contemplated upside vrs best football already played.
Clay's FATHER, self-described as being less athletic than his son, was awesome enough to play inside AND Outside LBer for us during his long tenure here. His kid will be the same way because he's a big boy with better foot speed than dad.
On Clay's final hit on the QB yesterday, didn't they line him up at ILBer? I thought I saw him standing up at the G-C gap and he just shot right through it. He's got that quickness that's innate. He'll be 3rd generation of pro football player in the bloodlines. While I LIKED every highlight I saw on Curry and I now like him better than Rey - I STILL think getting Mays in round 1 with Matthews in round 2 realy improves the footspeed lacking on our defense at this time. You can do so much more with creativity when you got speed like that in your lineup. Pittsburgh's defense in 2007 wasn't anything like it was in 2008 and the biggest difference? Polly is healthy and Dick LeBeau has alot of fun. That said, look how Baltimore can have fun with a guy like Ed Reed.
If you were told to pick a LBer for us after the game yesterday and your choices were: Lauranitis, Curry, Rey, Cushing or Matthews - who would you pick? My fondness for Curry is off a collection of his greatest plays. I'm impressed but who watches Wake Forrest play football very often? Can Curry takeover a game like Matthews did against a much better opponent than Navy? I'm REALLY starting to dig the idea of Mays in round 1 and Matthews in round 2 if doable. Our defense lacks footspeed, which shows up in so many different ways. These 2 kids bring us 4.2s and 4.5s, which is ideal for both positions of need on our roster. For example, how about a blitz that touches the passer BEFORE he throws the ball? We used to have those when we looked to USC for it.
- Tom F.
Flugs, I have been saying for the past month if the Browns go DEFENSE they need to get a playmaker, we need our Troy Palamalu and the guy in this draft that would help the Browns the most is Taylor Mays, this guy is a game changing type player and what I call a PLAYMAKER, the guy that makes the big plays at crunch time.
I have seen plenty of Curry and he is a very good player, but Curry reminds me so much of Derrick Johnson linebacker with the Chiefs who everyone was predicting great things for a few years ago and he is a good LB but nothing great, don't forget all the hype about A.J. Hawk just a few years ago, and Hawk has done nothing in Green Bay based on where he was drafted.
Flugs, this team needs a dominant pass rusher and looking at the linebackers only Rey Rey and Mathews Jr. stand out as pass rushing linebackers, so I agree with you if we could get a Taylor Mays in round 1 and mathews in round 2 that would be the best for the Browns we get a playmaking safety and pass rusher LB..
FYI, here is a list of linebackers taken in round 1 the past 3 years...2008- Keith Rivers, Jerod Mayo, 2007- Patrick Willis, Lawrence Timmons, Jon Beason ( Great 1st rd for LB's) ...2006- A.J. Hawk, Ernie Sims, Kamerion Wimbley
The Browns must get this pick right
I have seen plenty of Curry and he is a very good player, but Curry reminds me so much of Derrick Johnson linebacker with the Chiefs who everyone was predicting great things for a few years ago and he is a good LB but nothing great, don't forget all the hype about A.J. Hawk just a few years ago, and Hawk has done nothing in Green Bay based on where he was drafted.
Which games did you watch? Just curious.
-
I have seen plenty of Curry and he is a very good player, but Curry reminds me so much of Derrick Johnson linebacker with the Chiefs who everyone was predicting great things for a few years ago and he is a good LB but nothing great, don't forget all the hype about A.J. Hawk just a few years ago, and Hawk has done nothing in Green Bay based on where he was drafted.
Which games did you watch? Just curious.
Aloysius said:
Which games did you watch? Just curious.I saw him in the games against Clemson, Duke, N.C. State and Boston College, so I feel I have got a good read on him
The guy is good but I just don't see him as the type of LB to take over games
Kinda like when Derrick Johnson was getting all the hype at Texas
I feel we need a dominant edge rusher and Curry will not be that type of player
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Didn't see the Duke or NC State games, but I though he was very impressive in the Clemson game. Even in the BC game, considered his "worst" game of the year, he had a TFL & knocked BC's starting QB out of the game.
Agreed about him not being a dominant edge rusher, but that's not what we'd be drafting him for. Nor is Maualuga - I'm not sure why you mentioned him as being a "dominant pass rusher".
We definitely have a hole at ILB that needs to be filled. Maybe we do it in FA, but Curry's the guy if we want to grab one in the draft.
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someone we've been forgetting is leroy hill, currently in seattle. he's a free agent and could be on the move. though he's played outside in seattle, because they play a 4-3, the concepts of flowing to the balllcarrier and stopping the run are essentially the same if we move him inside, something he's got the speed and strength to do.
the only concern is that he's listed only at 238 on his team's site, meaning he's definitely less than that. however, he's a hard hitter who could shed blocks and make plays in the backfield; he had 7 TFL this year.
one concern about him is that he's not much in pass coverage as he has no career picks and only eleven passes defensed in a four-year career.
another is that he's coming off a neck injury that kept him out of the last four games of the year, but that could work out in our favor.
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Don't see Hill playing in a 3-4, JD. You're right about his size being an issue: he weighed in at 229 lbs. at the Combine a few years ago. And here's some of his college scouting report:
If only he could find a way to generate that weight room strength on the field. While he has a strong hand jolt, usage and placement have been his problems. He fails to use his hands to keep blockers off his feet and because he is constantly trying to escape the bigger blockers, he leaves his chest too exposed, resulting in him getting stonewalled on the inside plays.
He has decent instincts, but appears to regret attempting to work in-line to stuff the running game. He struggles too much to shed and has marginal control at the point of attack. On the move, he has the straight-line speed to give chase, string plays wide and make the tackle along the sidelines. He takes better angles in the open than he does at the line, but has little bulk to consistently fight through the trash.
If we switch to a 4-3, he'd be at the top of my list of potential FA targets. I'd be particularly interested in having a coach try to get him back to the 7.5 sack total he notched his rookie season. But if we stick to a 3-4, I don't think he'll be in our plans.
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Here are some guys who could be 3-4 ILB targets:
- Ray Lewis
- 6'1", 250 lbs., Age: 33
- '08 Stats: 117 TT, 85 solo, 3.5 sacks, 3 INT
- Can't see Baltimore lettting this guy go
- Bart Scott
- 6'2", 240 lbs., Age: 28
- '08 Stats: 82 TT, 61 solo, 1.5 sacks, 0 INT
- Versatile defender plays Mike in Baltimore's 3-4 alignment, but he's physical enough to move over to Ted. Also doubtful that Baltimore lets Scott go, but you never know...
- Karlos Dansby
- 6'4", 250 lbs., Age: 27
- '08 Stats: 119 TT, 95 solo, 4.0 sacks, 2 INT
- May get the biggest contract of all these guys, based on his relative youth & ability stopping the run (9 TFL) and pass-rush ability (8 sacks in '06). If recent reports of us being close to cap hell are true, then it's likely that Dansby will be too expensive for our tastes.
- Channing Crowder
- 6'2", 259 lbs., Age: 25
- '08 Stats: 113 TT, 92 solo, 0 sacks, 0 INT
- May actually be the best fit for our defense, but character and chronic knee issues may keep him out of a Browns uniform.
- Eric Barton
- 6'2", 245 lbs., Age: 31
- '08 Stats: 119 TT, 93 solo, 1.5 sacks, 0 INT
- The Jets' Ted backer had a big year playing behind Kris Jenkins. If we go with Mangini as HC, the chances of Barton playing for us next year go way up.
- Mike Peterson
- 6'1", 238 lbs., Age: 32
- '08 Stats: 84 TT, 70 solo, 1.0 sacks, 0 INT
- Peterson has clashed with HC Jack Del Rio, which means he won't be returning to Jacksonville next year. His size and past durability issues may seem to make him a poor fit for 3-4 ILB, but I could see him having a Takeo Spikes-esque resurrection as a 3-4 ILB.
- Leroy Hill
- 6'1", 238 lbs., Age: 26
- '08 Stats: 84 TT, 64 solo, 1.0 sacks, 0 INT
- Read what JewDago posted above
- Angelo Crowell
- 6'1", 246 lbs., Age: 27
- '07 Stats: 126 TT, 86 solo, 2.0 sacks, 1 INT
- Crowell appeared to be a burgeoning star before the '08 season, but ended up sidelined for the year with a knee injury. Should be available for relatively cheap. He may even have some value if we stick to the 3-4, based on his size and experience playing in Al Groh's 3-4 at Virginia.
- Michael Boley
- 6'3", 223 lbs., Age: 26
- '08 Stats: 73 TT, 63 solo, 0.0 sacks, 1 INT
- Boley had a down year and ended up getting benched on run-downs, which will kill his FA value. But those issues may be explained by an early-season neck strain, so he may be able to return to his '07 form (109 TT, 93 solo, 3.0 sacks). Could be worth a minor gamble.
- Ray Lewis
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