Fodder For The Apologists, First Hand Account Of Gm Holmgren
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Which is the opposite of how the Browns have been drafting....
Heath is a weasel. Waste of thread space.
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So basically Heath Evans hated Holmgren as a coach and loved Belichick. Holmgren is the president now not the coach... So what exactly does this have to do with the Browns?
...and Pat Shurmur.
Also, exactly what is he accusing Holmgrem of being: not tough enough? too tough? inconsistent?
Too me the guy seems contradictory. I wish I knew WTF he is talking about. And correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Holmgren take the Seahawks to the SB AFTER they cut this guy loose?
Maybe it was Heath Evans who, indeed, was "the locker room cancer".
...and Pat Shurmur.
Also, exactly what is he accusing Holmgrem of being: not tough enough? too tough? inconsistent?
Too me the guy seems contradictory. I wish I knew WTF he is talking about. And correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Holmgren take the Seahawks to the SB AFTER they cut this guy loose?
Maybe it was Heath Evans who, indeed, was "the locker room cancer".
I don't see where he contradicts himself, Gip. His claims make perfect sense, and I'm not saying that because I dislike Holmgren. On the contrary, I like Holmgren and I really want him to succeed.
But Holmgren does give off that aura of being too "buddy-buddy" with his star players, and for a coach that is not a way to lead a team. Granted, Holmgren is no longer a coach, so this doesn't pertain entirely to our current situation but it still does offer some insight.
If you want your players to respect you, you have to treat each player the same. To get the true "family" dynamic, a coach must play no favorites, and hold each player to the same standard. This is true for every level, whether it's high school, college, or the professional level. Say what you want about him, but one thing Belichick does is command the respect of those around him. I dislike the guy heavily, but I do respect his coaching and drafting abilities.
Holmgren, on the other hand, seems to give off a different vibe. I can easily believe that he has his core group of favorites, and that he takes his anger out on some of the other "roster fodder" players.
I look at it this way. In high school, my HC was part of the good ol' boy network. He grew up in my hometown, his high school buddies were local coaches or business owners and their kids all went to my high school. Naturally, my HC preferred those kids over the others on the team, letting them start at varying "skill" positions even though there were better players on the roster. During practices, his group of kids could do no wrong, whereas the other players seemed to always mess up. I, unfortunately, wasn't part of "that group", but I also wasn't completely written off either. As a 4 year All-State OL at 6'5 330 lb, the HC at least respected my abilities, and tried to include me in "his group", but he also seized every opportunity he could to blame or belittle me on the field. In a way, I was a hybrid, one of the "in crowd" that he could yell at with no repercussions.
I tell you that story because, after 4 years, his players refused to play for him. Only 5 or 6 would show up for tryouts, and nobody would care to listen to him. The moment he was fired, nearly 100 kids began attending tryouts. Nobody respected him, and nobody wanted to play for him. I fear it could be the same way for Holmgren, if what Evans says is actually true.
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I will judge him solely on what he does here. So far im unhappy.
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Problem with our situation is that we have no stars. Also, who the hell is Heath Evans?
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So basically Heath Evans hated Holmgren as a coach and loved Belichick. Holmgren is the president now not the coach... So what exactly does this have to do with the Browns?
So basically Heath Evans hated Holmgren as a coach and loved Belichick. Holmgren is the president now not the coach... So what exactly does this have to do with the Browns?
Just about everything since he's President and the shit always rolls down hill. It's funny how guys will have double standards on this board. Blind fan passion? Big Gay Ben is a rapist but Jim Brown is Ok. Gimme a break. You can't have it both ways.
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Which is the opposite of how the Browns have been drafting....
Heath is a weasel. Waste of thread space.
Which is the opposite of how the Browns have been drafting....
Heath is a weasel. Waste of thread space.
Mangini was the one who drafted Smart, Athletic, and Tough. Not defending his draft picks cuz he had some busts but this new regime doesn't care about that. You think Mangini would have drafted Little? No way.
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Yeah, I heard this guy's interview on 92.3. While I'm sure he knows more about holmgren than anyone on this board, he sounded like he had a bit of a grudge against him. I'm not sure anything he says is objective. I've had certain bosses that I've hated, and I wouldn't have anything good to say.about them if I had a platform. Im pretty sure this is one of those situations.
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TCPO is da winna!
cysko....objectivity is required when looking at an issue one has no first hand knowledge, no facts. evans played under holmgren, and simply described what he thought about the situation that he was a part of. objectivity is not needed in this case....whether he has an axe to grind or not, would that change the fact that holmgren plays favorites and caused dissent amoung his team?
this is only to show a glimpse of the savior of this franchise...the football guy that has made crap teams into superbowl teams.
so, heath evans isn't credible. how about ron wolf, ya know, the GM that made holmgren into the who he is today?
so, can we at least temper the "complete faith" and the "he's a football guy" crap until he actually does something here? in no way am i saying he's completely incompetent. he's simply not guaranteed success because he doesn't have great football guys around him. he's it now.....and you see that he's not the same guys as in the past.
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Which is the opposite of how the Browns have been drafting....
Heath is a weasel. Waste of thread space.
Mangini was the one who drafted Smart, Athletic, and Tough. Not defending his draft picks cuz he had some busts but this new regime doesn't care about that. You think Mangini would have drafted Little? No way.
Mangini was the one who drafted Smart, Athletic, and Tough. Not defending his draft picks cuz he had some busts but this new regime doesn't care about that. You think Mangini would have drafted Little? No way.
No mangini would have traded that pick to the jets. Quit acting like mangini was the answer. He did nothing more or less with the Browns than any other coach has. That is what's so frustrating with that team.
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Mangini was the one who drafted Smart, Athletic, and Tough. Not defending his draft picks cuz he had some busts but this new regime doesn't care about that. You think Mangini would have drafted Little? No way.
No mangini would have traded that pick to the jets. Quit acting like mangini was the answer. He did nothing more or less with the Browns than any other coach has. That is what's so frustrating with that team.
No mangini would have traded that pick to the jets. Quit acting like mangini was the answer. He did nothing more or less with the Browns than any other coach has. That is what's so frustrating with that team.
Please show me where I said mangini had all the answers. I was refuting the statement that we don't draft guys with issues. Reading comprehension. Try to pick up on that skill.
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Reality Check to the Human Race....or at least to those who read this:
Star players are going to get treated differently. They are going to be given better, more special treatment.
Shaun Alexander, who was an NFL MVP, an NFL leading rusher..is going to get better, preferential treatment over a pine rider like Heath Evans who got nothing but splinters in his ass.
Fact of Life. Deal with it.
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How is Wolf saying MH failed to make adjustments in one game (albeit the SB) even in the same realm of converstation as Evans complaining about how he felt he was treated by MH in comparison to "star" players (note Evans doesn't tell you what he was ripped for)? Those two are not even the same discussion. MH isn't the coach of the Browns, and has anyone ever said he didn't make mistakes in during a game? What HC hasn't made a mistake in a game. To me this is simply one players opinion (guy has also ripped Saban) of how MH ran his locker room in SEA. That's one guy out of god knows how many players that have played under MH in his 17 years as an NFL head coach.
It is worth noting Evans talked about how talented those SEA teams (says most talented he ever played on, when he was on the NE team that went into the SB undefeated). If we are to believe all things Evans says, wouldn't that mean MH was not bad at being GM/HC, as far as aquiring talent (people have said over and over how bad he was as a GM in SEA)? Personally I don't think those teams were that talented, but I would disagree with Evans saying they were failures, since they were in the playoffs 2 of the 4 years Evans played in SEA.
As Gipper pointed out, reality is, star players are treated different on almost every team.
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So basically Heath Evans hated Holmgren as a coach and loved Belichick. Holmgren is the president now not the coach... So what exactly does this have to do with the Browns?
Just about everything since he's President and the shit always rolls down hill. It's funny how guys will have double standards on this board. Blind fan passion? Big Gay Ben is a rapist but Jim Brown is Ok. Gimme a break. You can't have it both ways.
Just about everything since he's President and the shit always rolls down hill.
I was asking what Heath Evan's opinion had to do with the Browns. And the answer is: absolutely nothing! Just because one former player holds a grudge against Holmgren doesn't mean Holmgren is a terrible coach/president. After all, he did bring 2 different teams to the Super Bowl.
It's funny how guys will have double standards on this board. Blind fan passion? Big Gay Ben is a rapist but Jim Brown is Ok. Gimme a break. You can't have it both ways.
And this statement makes you sound like the ignorant Ghoolie. This thread has nothing to do with Ben Roethlisberger or Jim Brown (nor have I ever entered in any debate about the two of them). So why bring it up?
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The Fat Cat Walrus
"All Truth Passes Through Three stages. First, It Is Ridiculed, Second It Is Violently Opposed, And Third, It Is Accepted As Self-Evident" ~Arthur Schopenhauer -
wow, all he's missing is the strippers, the mound of coke and money falling out of his pockets. (what's the driver of the golf cart doing...rolling a doob?)
drinking a strawberry dacquiri and smokin a stog at 9:30 am. now that's the life!!!
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The Fat Cat Walrus
The Fat Cat Walrus
I didn't know he smoked. It seems incongruous that a guy associated with sports these days would smoke.
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