And After Last Night's Giants Win.....
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That was funny ..... Maybe not if i was the owner.
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Mik.....it wouldn't bother me is we went D.
IMO the D is closer to being a decent unit. A few more top picks with the right guys might make it a darn good unit. Nothing wrong with that.
There is something to be said for being very good on at least one side of the ball, and if your team is going to be that polar, it is probably better to be excellent at defense. IMO it is easier for a O to have a bad day then a D having a bad day. Defense is largely hustle and desire, and those are two things that should never "slump".
In other words, I think it is a better bet the D is going to keep you in a game than is a O going out and outscoring the opponent every week.
Go with the odds. Build the D. A corner, backer, and DE and we have a D that can push people around.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
yeah and if it was just as easy to sit back in the pocket all day and throw the ball to someone that is wide open with no 300+ behemoths coming at you trying to break your neck, you and rich4eagle would be hall of famers. or is that flamers?
as far as i'm concerned everyone on the browns is shit. the only decent players we have are a couple of left overs from mangini and the only good ones are the ones heckert picked. sure both super bowl teams have better qbs and wrs than we do. both have better OLs. the pass rush by the giants made the difference. imagine playing four guys on the line and everyone else back into coverage and still being able to sack the opponents qb? i think every browns fan would enjoy that. how about a running game where a guy can get a block and maybe break a tackle for a 40 yd td run? wouldn't mind seeing that either, would you?
well it ain't happening anytime soon and the qb might be a position of need but he's nowhere near the top.
well it ain't happening anytime soon and the qb might be a position of need but he's nowhere near the top.
Are we talking about the Browns? I'm not sure how you watch that and not say, "Man, these guys need a quarterback." I don't know if there's a quarterback in the league that contributes more to his own lack of success. I'm not a big "big arm" guy, but when you match the lack of that with the rest of McCoy's shortcomings, it really compounds matters.
If I'm scouting McCoy from a defensive standpoint, I compress the top of the zone, and blitz him to death. His pre-snap is laughable. I've never seen a kid more surprised by guys in his face, and less equipped to do anything about it. You can blitz out of either slot at will, and he almost never sees it. He's very slow moving through his progressions, and he's way early, or way late with nearly everything. Then watching that ball that looks like it weighs 20 lbs. flutter through the air... it's just not up to NFL snuff.
The only thing more expensive and time-consuming for an NFL team than developing a young quarterback, is developing a young quarterback with serious deficiencies in his game. The Browns have a chance to cash out the Colt McCoy experiment and replace him with a complete player at quarterback... And not just a complete player, but a guy so gifted, that it's actually difficult to describe.
So, you can take the most important position on the field an upgrade it by a factor so large, that I'm quite not sure can actually be calculated, and you're not OK with that?
That's like a NASCAR team saying, "We don't want a faster engine... 'cause we've got a driver that tries real hard." What?
If you haven't run a decent race in a decade, and you have a chance to replace the engine with a dramatically better engine... you do it.
They draft RGIII, they immediately turn the most important position into a strength instead of a weakness. If they somehow fail to make a deal to get to #2, and Griffin falls to #4... run, don't walk to the podium.
-jj
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If we draft Coples at #4 he is going to be a huge bust. He is either A: going to be the kind of player who has a monster game one week and then is none existent the next, or B: the kind of person how legit just doesn't has a interest in playing football and will retire after only 2-4 seasons. There are several DE in the draft that are not only more talented the Coples but who actually have a consistent drive to want to play football.
who?
who?
Ingram and Curry both had good weeks during the Senior Bowl and both played on a more consistent level the whole week and can be had farther back in the 1st round. There is also Mercilus from Illinois who put up big sack numbers against great Big 10 o-lines, unlike Coples who put up smaller numbers against weaker competition.
Are you saying: Hello Kameron Wimbley part two?
Yes.
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well it ain't happening anytime soon and the qb might be a position of need but he's nowhere near the top.
Are we talking about the Browns? I'm not sure how you watch that and not say, "Man, these guys need a quarterback." I don't know if there's a quarterback in the league that contributes more to his own lack of success. I'm not a big "big arm" guy, but when you match the lack of that with the rest of McCoy's shortcomings, it really compounds matters.
If I'm scouting McCoy from a defensive standpoint, I compress the top of the zone, and blitz him to death. His pre-snap is laughable. I've never seen a kid more surprised by guys in his face, and less equipped to do anything about it. You can blitz out of either slot at will, and he almost never sees it. He's very slow moving through his progressions, and he's way early, or way late with nearly everything. Then watching that ball that looks like it weighs 20 lbs. flutter through the air... it's just not up to NFL snuff.
The only thing more expensive and time-consuming for an NFL team than developing a young quarterback, is developing a young quarterback with serious deficiencies in his game. The Browns have a chance to cash out the Colt McCoy experiment and replace him with a complete player at quarterback... And not just a complete player, but a guy so gifted, that it's actually difficult to describe.
So, you can take the most important position on the field an upgrade it by a factor so large, that I'm quite not sure can actually be calculated, and you're not OK with that?
That's like a NASCAR team saying, "We don't want a faster engine... 'cause we've got a driver that tries real hard." What?
If you haven't run a decent race in a decade, and you have a chance to replace the engine with a dramatically better engine... you do it.
They draft RGIII, they immediately turn the most important position into a strength instead of a weakness. If they somehow fail to make a deal to get to #2, and Griffin falls to #4... run, don't walk to the podium.
-jj
Are we talking about the Browns? I'm not sure how you watch that and not say, "Man, these guys need a quarterback." I don't know if there's a quarterback in the league that contributes more to his own lack of success. I'm not a big "big arm" guy, but when you match the lack of that with the rest of McCoy's shortcomings, it really compounds matters.
If I'm scouting McCoy from a defensive standpoint, I compress the top of the zone, and blitz him to death. His pre-snap is laughable. I've never seen a kid more surprised by guys in his face, and less equipped to do anything about it. You can blitz out of either slot at will, and he almost never sees it. He's very slow moving through his progressions, and he's way early, or way late with nearly everything. Then watching that ball that looks like it weighs 20 lbs. flutter through the air... it's just not up to NFL snuff.
The only thing more expensive and time-consuming for an NFL team than developing a young quarterback, is developing a young quarterback with serious deficiencies in his game. The Browns have a chance to cash out the Colt McCoy experiment and replace him with a complete player at quarterback... And not just a complete player, but a guy so gifted, that it's actually difficult to describe.
So, you can take the most important position on the field an upgrade it by a factor so large, that I'm quite not sure can actually be calculated, and you're not OK with that?
That's like a NASCAR team saying, "We don't want a faster engine... 'cause we've got a driver that tries real hard." What?
If you haven't run a decent race in a decade, and you have a chance to replace the engine with a dramatically better engine... you do it.
They draft RGIII, they immediately turn the most important position into a strength instead of a weakness. If they somehow fail to make a deal to get to #2, and Griffin falls to #4... run, don't walk to the podium.
-jj
to each his own but i don't think it will happen.
are we going to make the playoffs if we draft rglll and a top 5 wr next year? NO. will we make a good defense even better by drafting cb, de and lb? YES.
listen we ain't making the playoffs or the super bowl next year. if there is a chance to make one side of the browns. offense or defense, complete by just adding 3 picks then why not do it? the other picks (not in any order BTW) wr, rt and a little scat-back. at least the team is 80% complete. then fill-in the skill positions starting with the 9th pick in next year's draft.
OR
we could do it your way, draft RGlll, have him scramble around while the right side of the line is getting over-run, get smacked left and right and turn him into the next tim couch. scramble/run? lord i hope so cuz he won't have any protection, there won't be any wide receivers open and by the half we'll be down by three touchdowns. way to build an org. twinkle toes.
i hope the redskins are gullible enough to believe the hype on this guy and trade us their spot and another pick.
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Are we talking about the Browns? I'm not sure how you watch that and not say, "Man, these guys need a quarterback." I don't know if there's a quarterback in the league that contributes more to his own lack of success. I'm not a big "big arm" guy, but when you match the lack of that with the rest of McCoy's shortcomings, it really compounds matters.
If I'm scouting McCoy from a defensive standpoint, I compress the top of the zone, and blitz him to death. His pre-snap is laughable. I've never seen a kid more surprised by guys in his face, and less equipped to do anything about it. You can blitz out of either slot at will, and he almost never sees it. He's very slow moving through his progressions, and he's way early, or way late with nearly everything. Then watching that ball that looks like it weighs 20 lbs. flutter through the air... it's just not up to NFL snuff.
The only thing more expensive and time-consuming for an NFL team than developing a young quarterback, is developing a young quarterback with serious deficiencies in his game. The Browns have a chance to cash out the Colt McCoy experiment and replace him with a complete player at quarterback... And not just a complete player, but a guy so gifted, that it's actually difficult to describe.
So, you can take the most important position on the field an upgrade it by a factor so large, that I'm quite not sure can actually be calculated, and you're not OK with that?
That's like a NASCAR team saying, "We don't want a faster engine... 'cause we've got a driver that tries real hard." What?
If you haven't run a decent race in a decade, and you have a chance to replace the engine with a dramatically better engine... you do it.
They draft RGIII, they immediately turn the most important position into a strength instead of a weakness. If they somehow fail to make a deal to get to #2, and Griffin falls to #4... run, don't walk to the podium.
-jj
to each his own but i don't think it will happen.
are we going to make the playoffs if we draft rglll and a top 5 wr next year? NO. will we make a good defense even better by drafting cb, de and lb? YES.
listen we ain't making the playoffs or the super bowl next year. if there is a chance to make one side of the browns. offense or defense, complete by just adding 3 picks then why not do it? the other picks (not in any order BTW) wr, rt and a little scat-back. at least the team is 80% complete. then fill-in the skill positions starting with the 9th pick in next year's draft.
OR
we could do it your way, draft RGlll, have him scramble around while the right side of the line is getting over-run, get smacked left and right and turn him into the next tim couch. scramble/run? lord i hope so cuz he won't have any protection, there won't be any wide receivers open and by the half we'll be down by three touchdowns. way to build an org. twinkle toes.
i hope the redskins are gullible enough to believe the hype on this guy and trade us their spot and another pick.
to each his own but i don't think it will happen.
are we going to make the playoffs if we draft rglll and a top 5 wr next year? NO. will we make a good defense even better by drafting cb, de and lb? YES.
listen we ain't making the playoffs or the super bowl next year. if there is a chance to make one side of the browns. offense or defense, complete by just adding 3 picks then why not do it? the other picks (not in any order BTW) wr, rt and a little scat-back. at least the team is 80% complete. then fill-in the skill positions starting with the 9th pick in next year's draft.
OR
we could do it your way, draft RGlll, have him scramble around while the right side of the line is getting over-run, get smacked left and right and turn him into the next tim couch. scramble/run? lord i hope so cuz he won't have any protection, there won't be any wide receivers open and by the half we'll be down by three touchdowns. way to build an org. twinkle toes.
i hope the redskins are gullible enough to believe the hype on this guy and trade us their spot and another pick.
To answer your question... well you've got a much better chance than you do without him.
But your plan is to make sure the Browns don't score enough points to pick any lower than 10th next season? I don't get it. You can make the Browns defense as good as you want, they're still going to lose 10 games and score under 200 points.
To abuse a metaphor, you're essentially saying, forget the car, get the best pit crew we can... we'll still lose... just not by quite as much.
-jj
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Are we talking about the Browns? I'm not sure how you watch that and not say, "Man, these guys need a quarterback." I don't know if there's a quarterback in the league that contributes more to his own lack of success. I'm not a big "big arm" guy, but when you match the lack of that with the rest of McCoy's shortcomings, it really compounds matters.
If I'm scouting McCoy from a defensive standpoint, I compress the top of the zone, and blitz him to death. His pre-snap is laughable. I've never seen a kid more surprised by guys in his face, and less equipped to do anything about it. You can blitz out of either slot at will, and he almost never sees it. He's very slow moving through his progressions, and he's way early, or way late with nearly everything. Then watching that ball that looks like it weighs 20 lbs. flutter through the air... it's just not up to NFL snuff.
The only thing more expensive and time-consuming for an NFL team than developing a young quarterback, is developing a young quarterback with serious deficiencies in his game. The Browns have a chance to cash out the Colt McCoy experiment and replace him with a complete player at quarterback... And not just a complete player, but a guy so gifted, that it's actually difficult to describe.
So, you can take the most important position on the field an upgrade it by a factor so large, that I'm quite not sure can actually be calculated, and you're not OK with that?
That's like a NASCAR team saying, "We don't want a faster engine... 'cause we've got a driver that tries real hard." What?
If you haven't run a decent race in a decade, and you have a chance to replace the engine with a dramatically better engine... you do it.
They draft RGIII, they immediately turn the most important position into a strength instead of a weakness. If they somehow fail to make a deal to get to #2, and Griffin falls to #4... run, don't walk to the podium.
-jj
to each his own but i don't think it will happen.
are we going to make the playoffs if we draft rglll and a top 5 wr next year? NO. will we make a good defense even better by drafting cb, de and lb? YES.
listen we ain't making the playoffs or the super bowl next year. if there is a chance to make one side of the browns. offense or defense, complete by just adding 3 picks then why not do it? the other picks (not in any order BTW) wr, rt and a little scat-back. at least the team is 80% complete. then fill-in the skill positions starting with the 9th pick in next year's draft.
OR
we could do it your way, draft RGlll, have him scramble around while the right side of the line is getting over-run, get smacked left and right and turn him into the next tim couch. scramble/run? lord i hope so cuz he won't have any protection, there won't be any wide receivers open and by the half we'll be down by three touchdowns. way to build an org. twinkle toes.
i hope the redskins are gullible enough to believe the hype on this guy and trade us their spot and another pick.
to each his own but i don't think it will happen.
are we going to make the playoffs if we draft rglll and a top 5 wr next year? NO. will we make a good defense even better by drafting cb, de and lb? YES.
listen we ain't making the playoffs or the super bowl next year. if there is a chance to make one side of the browns. offense or defense, complete by just adding 3 picks then why not do it? the other picks (not in any order BTW) wr, rt and a little scat-back. at least the team is 80% complete. then fill-in the skill positions starting with the 9th pick in next year's draft.
OR
we could do it your way, draft RGlll, have him scramble around while the right side of the line is getting over-run, get smacked left and right and turn him into the next tim couch. scramble/run? lord i hope so cuz he won't have any protection, there won't be any wide receivers open and by the half we'll be down by three touchdowns. way to build an org. twinkle toes.
i hope the redskins are gullible enough to believe the hype on this guy and trade us their spot and another pick.
Your making it sound like if we do draft RG3 we're just going to forfeit the rest of the draft or something. If we do take RG3 at 4 I'm sure we'll spend other picks on the right side and another WR at least. We have plenty of picks this year and if we take a franchise QB early I'm pretty confident the front office is going to do as much as possible to get the necessary talent around him so that he can succeed.
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to each his own but i don't think it will happen.
are we going to make the playoffs if we draft rglll and a top 5 wr next year? NO. will we make a good defense even better by drafting cb, de and lb? YES.
listen we ain't making the playoffs or the super bowl next year. if there is a chance to make one side of the browns. offense or defense, complete by just adding 3 picks then why not do it? the other picks (not in any order BTW) wr, rt and a little scat-back. at least the team is 80% complete. then fill-in the skill positions starting with the 9th pick in next year's draft.
OR
we could do it your way, draft RGlll, have him scramble around while the right side of the line is getting over-run, get smacked left and right and turn him into the next tim couch. scramble/run? lord i hope so cuz he won't have any protection, there won't be any wide receivers open and by the half we'll be down by three touchdowns. way to build an org. twinkle toes.
i hope the redskins are gullible enough to believe the hype on this guy and trade us their spot and another pick.
To answer your question... well you've got a much better chance than you do without him.
But your plan is to make sure the Browns don't score enough points to pick any lower than 10th next season? I don't get it. You can make the Browns defense as good as you want, they're still going to lose 10 games and score under 200 points.
To abuse a metaphor, you're essentially saying, forget the car, get the best pit crew we can... we'll still lose... just not by quite as much.
-jj
To answer your question... well you've got a much better chance than you do without him.
But your plan is to make sure the Browns don't score enough points to pick any lower than 10th next season? I don't get it. You can make the Browns defense as good as you want, they're still going to lose 10 games and score under 200 points.
To abuse a metaphor, you're essentially saying, forget the car, get the best pit crew we can... we'll still lose... just not by quite as much.
-jj
no, i don't like nascar so i don't pay any attention to anything that comes from it.
here's my point (as i've stated many times before). best case scenario iun my mind as far as the upcoming draft, we trade down, gain another 2nd round pick and still grab claiborne or some other impact defensive player in a posiiton of need. and that's a term you will hear me speak about throughout this thread: position of need. the last couple of years we could have won at least three games more than we did. it wasn't colt's fault that the jets just threw a sideline pass to (whoever) and we missed a game saving tackle. it's not colt's fault that we couldn't punch the ball into the endzone being 2 yards out. there is plenty of fault o go around.
if all the pieces were in place and colt was our qb and we won ten games would we be having this conversation. all the blame falls onto the qb. how about the tackle that missed blocking the opponent's left side DE all game long? how about the wr who couldn't outrun a turtle and if he did get open dropped the ball?
we are going NOWHERE next year. add to the D make them top 5. add someone on the OL that can handle a dt/de on the right side. a wr and a speed back. i don't care how you do it....FA or draft. but since we are going NOWHERE why waste the top pick on an unproven (yet very athletic) qb who's already been hurt once in his career and sat out most of a season, plays in a spread offense and is just the 'man of the minute'?
add those pieces above and see what happens. if colt shit s the bed, we can all suck on barkley's balls or who ever other man-child people will be salivating over next year.
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well it ain't happening anytime soon and the qb might be a position of need but he's nowhere near the top.
Are we talking about the Browns? I'm not sure how you watch that and not say, "Man, these guys need a quarterback." I don't know if there's a quarterback in the league that contributes more to his own lack of success. I'm not a big "big arm" guy, but when you match the lack of that with the rest of McCoy's shortcomings, it really compounds matters.
If I'm scouting McCoy from a defensive standpoint, I compress the top of the zone, and blitz him to death. His pre-snap is laughable. I've never seen a kid more surprised by guys in his face, and less equipped to do anything about it. You can blitz out of either slot at will, and he almost never sees it. He's very slow moving through his progressions, and he's way early, or way late with nearly everything. Then watching that ball that looks like it weighs 20 lbs. flutter through the air... it's just not up to NFL snuff.
The only thing more expensive and time-consuming for an NFL team than developing a young quarterback, is developing a young quarterback with serious deficiencies in his game. The Browns have a chance to cash out the Colt McCoy experiment and replace him with a complete player at quarterback... And not just a complete player, but a guy so gifted, that it's actually difficult to describe.
So, you can take the most important position on the field an upgrade it by a factor so large, that I'm quite not sure can actually be calculated, and you're not OK with that?
That's like a NASCAR team saying, "We don't want a faster engine... 'cause we've got a driver that tries real hard." What?
If you haven't run a decent race in a decade, and you have a chance to replace the engine with a dramatically better engine... you do it.
They draft RGIII, they immediately turn the most important position into a strength instead of a weakness. If they somehow fail to make a deal to get to #2, and Griffin falls to #4... run, don't walk to the podium.
-jj
Are we talking about the Browns? I'm not sure how you watch that and not say, "Man, these guys need a quarterback." I don't know if there's a quarterback in the league that contributes more to his own lack of success. I'm not a big "big arm" guy, but when you match the lack of that with the rest of McCoy's shortcomings, it really compounds matters.
If I'm scouting McCoy from a defensive standpoint, I compress the top of the zone, and blitz him to death. His pre-snap is laughable. I've never seen a kid more surprised by guys in his face, and less equipped to do anything about it. You can blitz out of either slot at will, and he almost never sees it. He's very slow moving through his progressions, and he's way early, or way late with nearly everything. Then watching that ball that looks like it weighs 20 lbs. flutter through the air... it's just not up to NFL snuff.
The only thing more expensive and time-consuming for an NFL team than developing a young quarterback, is developing a young quarterback with serious deficiencies in his game. The Browns have a chance to cash out the Colt McCoy experiment and replace him with a complete player at quarterback... And not just a complete player, but a guy so gifted, that it's actually difficult to describe.
So, you can take the most important position on the field an upgrade it by a factor so large, that I'm quite not sure can actually be calculated, and you're not OK with that?
That's like a NASCAR team saying, "We don't want a faster engine... 'cause we've got a driver that tries real hard." What?
If you haven't run a decent race in a decade, and you have a chance to replace the engine with a dramatically better engine... you do it.
They draft RGIII, they immediately turn the most important position into a strength instead of a weakness. If they somehow fail to make a deal to get to #2, and Griffin falls to #4... run, don't walk to the podium.
-jj
1) See what happened with Tim Couch.
2) I think people are making him out to be the next Cam Newton. I don't think he will be. He's fast and has a strong arm, but he's also only 6'2".
I think if we get RG3, we sit him a year until we can surround him with talent and not hang him out to dry like we did with Tim Ouch.
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To answer your question... well you've got a much better chance than you do without him.
But your plan is to make sure the Browns don't score enough points to pick any lower than 10th next season? I don't get it. You can make the Browns defense as good as you want, they're still going to lose 10 games and score under 200 points.
To abuse a metaphor, you're essentially saying, forget the car, get the best pit crew we can... we'll still lose... just not by quite as much.
-jj
no, i don't like nascar so i don't pay any attention to anything that comes from it.
here's my point (as i've stated many times before). best case scenario iun my mind as far as the upcoming draft, we trade down, gain another 2nd round pick and still grab claiborne or some other impact defensive player in a posiiton of need. and that's a term you will hear me speak about throughout this thread: position of need. the last couple of years we could have won at least three games more than we did. it wasn't colt's fault that the jets just threw a sideline pass to (whoever) and we missed a game saving tackle. it's not colt's fault that we couldn't punch the ball into the endzone being 2 yards out. there is plenty of fault o go around.
if all the pieces were in place and colt was our qb and we won ten games would we be having this conversation. all the blame falls onto the qb. how about the tackle that missed blocking the opponent's left side DE all game long? how about the wr who couldn't outrun a turtle and if he did get open dropped the ball?
we are going NOWHERE next year. add to the D make them top 5. add someone on the OL that can handle a dt/de on the right side. a wr and a speed back. i don't care how you do it....FA or draft. but since we are going NOWHERE why waste the top pick on an unproven (yet very athletic) qb who's already been hurt once in his career and sat out most of a season, plays in a spread offense and is just the 'man of the minute'?
add those pieces above and see what happens. if colt shit s the bed, we can all suck on barkley's balls or who ever other man-child people will be salivating over next year.
no, i don't like nascar so i don't pay any attention to anything that comes from it.
here's my point (as i've stated many times before). best case scenario iun my mind as far as the upcoming draft, we trade down, gain another 2nd round pick and still grab claiborne or some other impact defensive player in a posiiton of need. and that's a term you will hear me speak about throughout this thread: position of need. the last couple of years we could have won at least three games more than we did. it wasn't colt's fault that the jets just threw a sideline pass to (whoever) and we missed a game saving tackle. it's not colt's fault that we couldn't punch the ball into the endzone being 2 yards out. there is plenty of fault o go around.
if all the pieces were in place and colt was our qb and we won ten games would we be having this conversation. all the blame falls onto the qb. how about the tackle that missed blocking the opponent's left side DE all game long? how about the wr who couldn't outrun a turtle and if he did get open dropped the ball?
we are going NOWHERE next year. add to the D make them top 5. add someone on the OL that can handle a dt/de on the right side. a wr and a speed back. i don't care how you do it....FA or draft. but since we are going NOWHERE why waste the top pick on an unproven (yet very athletic) qb who's already been hurt once in his career and sat out most of a season, plays in a spread offense and is just the 'man of the minute'?
add those pieces above and see what happens. if colt shit s the bed, we can all suck on barkley's balls or who ever other man-child people will be salivating over next year.
I understand your point. I just disagree. And, by your own example, you fix the defense, and win 3 more games. Great. Now you're 12-20 over two seasons.
And I suspect, if the Browns were equipped to be winning 10 games with Colt McCoy at quarterback, it would be beginning to be obvious that he's the weak link. So... let's just say, possibly. It was pretty obvious that the quarterback was more of a hindrance than a help the last time they won 10 games, so I would be less than surprised if folks were looking to move him out.
Then again, they haven't won 10 games. They haven't won half that. So what are we talking about really?
First, let me state that I'm not a quarterback guy. I haven't once suggested the Browns draft #1 quarterback since their return. Even in 1999, I was all for drafting Ricky Williams and Shaun King. So, what do I know. Although, I still contend that King was every bit as effective as a pro as Couch was. That said, my interest in RGIII has nothing to do with wanting to replace Colt McCoy with whoever is the next best quarterback out there. What I'm saying is, based on what I see with my own eyes, with the exception of Andrew Luck, this is the best QB prospect to enter the league since the Browns '99. And, coincidentally, the Browns have a chance to draft him.
I don't believe for one second that Griffin is a "man of the minute." At least not in my opinion. I don't have a minute for him to be the man of. I've only ever graded 2 quarterbacks worthy of a top 5 pick.
There are no guarantees in the draft. There's no way you can say that adding a couple of draft picks makes the Browns defense top 5 and make it sound anything like a fact. So the reason you "waste a draft pick on an unproven (yet very athletic) quarterback, is that he is the best player on the board after Luck. He is an immediate upgrade at a position where the team is sorely lacking. And, save the fact that he's in the same draft as Andrew Luck, he's the best pure passer to enter the draft in more than a decade. That's why.
Obviously, we're of different minds on the idea. But, I just don't get this sort of 5 year plan that starts with building up the defense and waits to get a quarterback, when there's one of the best players ever sitting right in front of you.
That's where we disagree. I'm a believer that this kid is a once in decade kind of talent. And when is the right time to add someone of that stature?
The second he becomes available to you.
-jj
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That was funny ..... Maybe not if i was the owner.
That was funny ..... Maybe not if i was the owner.
That was so cute. I love Betty White!
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Are we talking about the Browns? I'm not sure how you watch that and not say, "Man, these guys need a quarterback." I don't know if there's a quarterback in the league that contributes more to his own lack of success. I'm not a big "big arm" guy, but when you match the lack of that with the rest of McCoy's shortcomings, it really compounds matters.
If I'm scouting McCoy from a defensive standpoint, I compress the top of the zone, and blitz him to death. His pre-snap is laughable. I've never seen a kid more surprised by guys in his face, and less equipped to do anything about it. You can blitz out of either slot at will, and he almost never sees it. He's very slow moving through his progressions, and he's way early, or way late with nearly everything. Then watching that ball that looks like it weighs 20 lbs. flutter through the air... it's just not up to NFL snuff.
The only thing more expensive and time-consuming for an NFL team than developing a young quarterback, is developing a young quarterback with serious deficiencies in his game. The Browns have a chance to cash out the Colt McCoy experiment and replace him with a complete player at quarterback... And not just a complete player, but a guy so gifted, that it's actually difficult to describe.
So, you can take the most important position on the field an upgrade it by a factor so large, that I'm quite not sure can actually be calculated, and you're not OK with that?
That's like a NASCAR team saying, "We don't want a faster engine... 'cause we've got a driver that tries real hard." What?
If you haven't run a decent race in a decade, and you have a chance to replace the engine with a dramatically better engine... you do it.
They draft RGIII, they immediately turn the most important position into a strength instead of a weakness. If they somehow fail to make a deal to get to #2, and Griffin falls to #4... run, don't walk to the podium.
-jj
1) See what happened with Tim Couch.
2) I think people are making him out to be the next Cam Newton. I don't think he will be. He's fast and has a strong arm, but he's also only 6'2".
I think if we get RG3, we sit him a year until we can surround him with talent and not hang him out to dry like we did with Tim Ouch.
1) See what happened with Tim Couch.
2) I think people are making him out to be the next Cam Newton. I don't think he will be. He's fast and has a strong arm, but he's also only 6'2".
I think if we get RG3, we sit him a year until we can surround him with talent and not hang him out to dry like we did with Tim Ouch.
With all due respect, Tim Couch is not Robert Griffin III. He's not even in the conversation.
And I don't think he's the next Cam Newton. He's better than Cam Newton... by a wide margin.
-jj
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Sign Mario Williams
Sign a WR
Draft RGIII/Claiborne
Trade back and take Claiborne/Richardson or whoever is best available. Then take a WR/DE/LB at 22. Sign Manningham for sure.
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Sign Mario Williams
Sign a WR
Draft RGIII/Claiborne
Trade back and take Claiborne/Richardson or whoever is best available. Then take a WR/DE/LB at 22. Sign Manningham for sure.
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1) See what happened with Tim Couch.
2) I think people are making him out to be the next Cam Newton. I don't think he will be. He's fast and has a strong arm, but he's also only 6'2".
I think if we get RG3, we sit him a year until we can surround him with talent and not hang him out to dry like we did with Tim Ouch.
With all due respect, Tim Couch is not Robert Griffin III. He's not even in the conversation.
And I don't think he's the next Cam Newton. He's better than Cam Newton... by a wide margin.
-jj
With all due respect, Tim Couch is not Robert Griffin III. He's not even in the conversation.
And I don't think he's the next Cam Newton. He's better than Cam Newton... by a wide margin.
-jj
Wow....no. Cam Newton took an average Auburn team and won the National Championship. Without him they win maybe 5 or 6 games. You can't say the same for Griffin. He didn't even win a Big 12 Championship in a conference that doesn't play defense.
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With all due respect, Tim Couch is not Robert Griffin III. He's not even in the conversation.
And I don't think he's the next Cam Newton. He's better than Cam Newton... by a wide margin.
-jj
Wow....no. Cam Newton took an average Auburn team and won the National Championship. Without him they win maybe 5 or 6 games. You can't say the same for Griffin. He didn't even win a Big 12 Championship in a conference that doesn't play defense.
Wow....no. Cam Newton took an average Auburn team and won the National Championship. Without him they win maybe 5 or 6 games. You can't say the same for Griffin. He didn't even win a Big 12 Championship in a conference that doesn't play defense.
The SEC is the only conference that plays defense and Baylor without RG3 is a 4 win team at best. Plus OU and Oklahoma St play in the Big 12, both having pretty good years. Everyone needs to quit with the notion that the Big 12 doesn't play defense. You have to keep in mind the Big 12 has some of the best, if not the best offenses in college football (the Pac 12 is the only other conference that can compete.) It truly amazes me that RG3 catches all this flack for playing Big 12 defenses but I've yet to hear a peep, on this board or in national media, about Andrew Luck playing Pac 12 defenses who play at the same level as Big 12 defenses.
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i don't know. i think any player from the SEC is steps above anyone in any other conference, especially on the defensive side of the ball. then the big ten/12...whatever it is now.
offensive numbers of the pac 12 big west conf's mean nothing since they basically conceed giving up 40 points a game for having more speed and scoring 50 points a game.
see how that scheme works in the afc north division in december. HA!
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I would love to see us go all D in the first 3 rounds. The Giants dominated the line of scrimmage from the defensive side of the ball. A ball buster defense will set up our offense and shorten the field so they will be able to score more often.
Look at the steelers when their defense is hitting and making plays Big Gay only has to move the ball 50 yards or less.
We need to gain yards and not just inches when it comes to field position.
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With all due respect, Tim Couch is not Robert Griffin III. He's not even in the conversation.
And I don't think he's the next Cam Newton. He's better than Cam Newton... by a wide margin.
-jj
Wow....no. Cam Newton took an average Auburn team and won the National Championship. Without him they win maybe 5 or 6 games. You can't say the same for Griffin. He didn't even win a Big 12 Championship in a conference that doesn't play defense.
Wow....no. Cam Newton took an average Auburn team and won the National Championship. Without him they win maybe 5 or 6 games. You can't say the same for Griffin. He didn't even win a Big 12 Championship in a conference that doesn't play defense.
An "average" Auburn team? Yeah, an average Auburn team that was ranked #22 before anyone knew who Cam Newton was. And produced 2 top 15 NFL draft picks. And, sorry, no, they're in contention in the SEC west with or without him. Their defense, while ranked in the middle of the pack (54th), boasted an FEI in the top 10 in the nation.
Baylor, on the other hand, began the year ranked 68th (with Griffin already installed and expected to be among the nation's best QBs). Finished the year ranked 13th. And boasted among the nations worst defensive units - ranked 112th BEFORE they gave up 620 yards to Washington in the Alamo Bowl... a game they won by the way.
When I say "better than Cam Newton," I'm talking about his quarterback play. Watch the game tapes. Griffin is as clean and polished a passer as you will find in any draft... not just this one. He's better than Stafford was on tape. He's put more NFL throws, sets, and reads on tape than Sam Bradford ever did. And he's a much better pure passer than Newton. Newton is an athlete that is going to take a couple of years to learn to be a quarterback. I know, I know 4000 yards and 21 touchdowns... still not a quarterback. Chud did a nice job of building that offense around his strengths. He also has a whole season's worth of tape out now. It won't go so well next year.
It actually started this season. Once his early season tapes made the rounds... while the team was actually doing better, Newton as a passer was becoming more and more compartmentalized in the offense. Only once in his last 5 games did he complete more than 15 passes, and only broke 200 yards twice. He didn't manage a single 300 yard performance after week 4. He's just not ready to be a championship level NFL quarterback. And that's not to say he won't be. I'm simply saying that he was nowhere near the prospect coming out of Auburn as Griffin is coming out of Baylor in 2011.
-jj
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Mik.....it wouldn't bother me is we went D.
IMO the D is closer to being a decent unit. A few more top picks with the right guys might make it a darn good unit. Nothing wrong with that.
There is something to be said for being very good on at least one side of the ball, and if your team is going to be that polar, it is probably better to be excellent at defense. IMO it is easier for a O to have a bad day then a D having a bad day. Defense is largely hustle and desire, and those are two things that should never "slump".
In other words, I think it is a better bet the D is going to keep you in a game than is a O going out and outscoring the opponent every week.
Go with the odds. Build the D. A corner, backer, and DE and we have a D that can push people around.
Mik.....it wouldn't bother me is we went D.
IMO the D is closer to being a decent unit. A few more top picks with the right guys might make it a darn good unit. Nothing wrong with that.
There is something to be said for being very good on at least one side of the ball, and if your team is going to be that polar, it is probably better to be excellent at defense. IMO it is easier for a O to have a bad day then a D having a bad day. Defense is largely hustle and desire, and those are two things that should never "slump".
In other words, I think it is a better bet the D is going to keep you in a game than is a O going out and outscoring the opponent every week.
Go with the odds. Build the D. A corner, backer, and DE and we have a D that can push people around.
I think you're ignoring the fact that offense and defense arent two totally separate units. If our offense cant stay on the field for any lasting amount of time, our "strength" of our Defense (our D line, which is 3 players and no depth, Rubin, Taylor, and Sheard) are going to get exhausted and not be effective, especially late in the game. Then we get no pass rush, and no teams secondary can last with no pass rush. Additionally, field position is huge for a defense. If our offense cant acquire good field position, our defense is going to have a real tough time keeping points off the board.
On the other hand, if an offense is strong with a poor defense, the offense will most likely have to stray from their gameplan in order to catch up to the other team..
I think we need to get both O and D up to an "average" playing level before we focus on making one "elite".. I think we may just be 2-3 starters on both to get to the average status though. Id say go with a somewhat balanced draft, with the top picks offense heavy because we just need some talent/spark on that side..
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