And After Last Night's Giants Win.....
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With all due respect, Tim Couch is not Robert Griffin III. He's not even in the conversation.
And I don't think he's the next Cam Newton. He's better than Cam Newton... by a wide margin.
-jj
Wow....no. Cam Newton took an average Auburn team and won the National Championship. Without him they win maybe 5 or 6 games. You can't say the same for Griffin. He didn't even win a Big 12 Championship in a conference that doesn't play defense.
Wow....no. Cam Newton took an average Auburn team and won the National Championship. Without him they win maybe 5 or 6 games. You can't say the same for Griffin. He didn't even win a Big 12 Championship in a conference that doesn't play defense.
An "average" Auburn team? Yeah, an average Auburn team that was ranked #22 before anyone knew who Cam Newton was. And produced 2 top 15 NFL draft picks. And, sorry, no, they're in contention in the SEC west with or without him. Their defense, while ranked in the middle of the pack (54th), boasted an FEI in the top 10 in the nation.
Baylor, on the other hand, began the year ranked 68th (with Griffin already installed and expected to be among the nation's best QBs). Finished the year ranked 13th. And boasted among the nations worst defensive units - ranked 112th BEFORE they gave up 620 yards to Washington in the Alamo Bowl... a game they won by the way.
When I say "better than Cam Newton," I'm talking about his quarterback play. Watch the game tapes. Griffin is as clean and polished a passer as you will find in any draft... not just this one. He's better than Stafford was on tape. He's put more NFL throws, sets, and reads on tape than Sam Bradford ever did. And he's a much better pure passer than Newton. Newton is an athlete that is going to take a couple of years to learn to be a quarterback. I know, I know 4000 yards and 21 touchdowns... still not a quarterback. Chud did a nice job of building that offense around his strengths. He also has a whole season's worth of tape out now. It won't go so well next year.
It actually started this season. Once his early season tapes made the rounds... while the team was actually doing better, Newton as a passer was becoming more and more compartmentalized in the offense. Only once in his last 5 games did he complete more than 15 passes, and only broke 200 yards twice. He didn't manage a single 300 yard performance after week 4. He's just not ready to be a championship level NFL quarterback. And that's not to say he won't be. I'm simply saying that he was nowhere near the prospect coming out of Auburn as Griffin is coming out of Baylor in 2011.
-jj
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Mik.....it wouldn't bother me is we went D.
IMO the D is closer to being a decent unit. A few more top picks with the right guys might make it a darn good unit. Nothing wrong with that.
There is something to be said for being very good on at least one side of the ball, and if your team is going to be that polar, it is probably better to be excellent at defense. IMO it is easier for a O to have a bad day then a D having a bad day. Defense is largely hustle and desire, and those are two things that should never "slump".
In other words, I think it is a better bet the D is going to keep you in a game than is a O going out and outscoring the opponent every week.
Go with the odds. Build the D. A corner, backer, and DE and we have a D that can push people around.
Mik.....it wouldn't bother me is we went D.
IMO the D is closer to being a decent unit. A few more top picks with the right guys might make it a darn good unit. Nothing wrong with that.
There is something to be said for being very good on at least one side of the ball, and if your team is going to be that polar, it is probably better to be excellent at defense. IMO it is easier for a O to have a bad day then a D having a bad day. Defense is largely hustle and desire, and those are two things that should never "slump".
In other words, I think it is a better bet the D is going to keep you in a game than is a O going out and outscoring the opponent every week.
Go with the odds. Build the D. A corner, backer, and DE and we have a D that can push people around.
I think you're ignoring the fact that offense and defense arent two totally separate units. If our offense cant stay on the field for any lasting amount of time, our "strength" of our Defense (our D line, which is 3 players and no depth, Rubin, Taylor, and Sheard) are going to get exhausted and not be effective, especially late in the game. Then we get no pass rush, and no teams secondary can last with no pass rush. Additionally, field position is huge for a defense. If our offense cant acquire good field position, our defense is going to have a real tough time keeping points off the board.
On the other hand, if an offense is strong with a poor defense, the offense will most likely have to stray from their gameplan in order to catch up to the other team..
I think we need to get both O and D up to an "average" playing level before we focus on making one "elite".. I think we may just be 2-3 starters on both to get to the average status though. Id say go with a somewhat balanced draft, with the top picks offense heavy because we just need some talent/spark on that side..
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
It didn't win them SHIT. A dropped pass -------------- is what gave them the ball back. The Giants D had nothing to do with that. The Giants D was " so good" that Brady passed for a SB record against them.
Manning to Manningham...................... THAT was the game winner.
Defenses were shagged out and long since quit.
Manning to Manningham.
Manning, MVP.
Case closed.
OK, I agree with some of that, but it is still a fact that the Pats had an 8 point lead in the 4th quarter....and it stayed an 8 pt. lead only because the Giants defense began seriously dogging Tom Brady.
It was the play of their defense that allowed M&M to mount that comeback.
Yes, the dropped pass helped, but that could have been caused somewhat by the Giants defensive intimidation.
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If we draft Coples at #4 he is going to be a huge bust. He is either A: going to be the kind of player who has a monster game one week and then is none existent the next, or B: the kind of person how legit just doesn't has a interest in playing football and will retire after only 2-4 seasons. There are several DE in the draft that are not only more talented the Coples but who actually have a consistent drive to want to play football.
Are you saying: Hello Kameron Wimbley part two?
Are you saying: Hello Kameron Wimbley part two?
Why would this guy be Kam Wimbley part two? When Wimbley played for us, he was playing out of position and not at his natural spot at 4-3 defensive end. Some guys just can't make the transition to 3-4 outside linebacker. I would slide down two or three spots and take Coples, and pick up some extra picks, if he is there and Blackmon and rg3 are both gone. Then take Kendall Wright or Michael Floyd at 22 if either one of them is there.
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Mik.....it wouldn't bother me is we went D.
IMO the D is closer to being a decent unit. A few more top picks with the right guys might make it a darn good unit. Nothing wrong with that.
There is something to be said for being very good on at least one side of the ball, and if your team is going to be that polar, it is probably better to be excellent at defense. IMO it is easier for a O to have a bad day then a D having a bad day. Defense is largely hustle and desire, and those are two things that should never "slump".
In other words, I think it is a better bet the D is going to keep you in a game than is a O going out and outscoring the opponent every week.
Go with the odds. Build the D. A corner, backer, and DE and we have a D that can push people around.
I think you're ignoring the fact that offense and defense arent two totally separate units. If our offense cant stay on the field for any lasting amount of time, our "strength" of our Defense (our D line, which is 3 players and no depth, Rubin, Taylor, and Sheard) are going to get exhausted and not be effective, especially late in the game. Then we get no pass rush, and no teams secondary can last with no pass rush. Additionally, field position is huge for a defense. If our offense cant acquire good field position, our defense is going to have a real tough time keeping points off the board.
On the other hand, if an offense is strong with a poor defense, the offense will most likely have to stray from their gameplan in order to catch up to the other team..
I think we need to get both O and D up to an "average" playing level before we focus on making one "elite".. I think we may just be 2-3 starters on both to get to the average status though. Id say go with a somewhat balanced draft, with the top picks offense heavy because we just need some talent/spark on that side..
I think you're ignoring the fact that offense and defense arent two totally separate units. If our offense cant stay on the field for any lasting amount of time, our "strength" of our Defense (our D line, which is 3 players and no depth, Rubin, Taylor, and Sheard) are going to get exhausted and not be effective, especially late in the game. Then we get no pass rush, and no teams secondary can last with no pass rush. Additionally, field position is huge for a defense. If our offense cant acquire good field position, our defense is going to have a real tough time keeping points off the board.
On the other hand, if an offense is strong with a poor defense, the offense will most likely have to stray from their gameplan in order to catch up to the other team..
I think we need to get both O and D up to an "average" playing level before we focus on making one "elite".. I think we may just be 2-3 starters on both to get to the average status though. Id say go with a somewhat balanced draft, with the top picks offense heavy because we just need some talent/spark on that side..
what difference does it make, right now? would you rather have an average offense AND and average defense next year and still go nowhere? or would you like to have an above average defense which would be basically set for years to come, letting you address and build the offense the next year?
there are waaaaay to many holes to fill on offense to do it all in one year. BUT we CAN fill the holes on defense and make it a dominate unit with this upcoming draft. HEY that's not to say we can't get a WR and an OL to hopefully add some stability to that side of the ball. we then get to see how good/bad mccoy is with another weapon and a little more protection. but if he sucks and we need a couple more skill players.....all those picks we'll have next year....you can complete the team.
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I think you're ignoring the fact that offense and defense arent two totally separate units. If our offense cant stay on the field for any lasting amount of time, our "strength" of our Defense (our D line, which is 3 players and no depth, Rubin, Taylor, and Sheard) are going to get exhausted and not be effective, especially late in the game. Then we get no pass rush, and no teams secondary can last with no pass rush. Additionally, field position is huge for a defense. If our offense cant acquire good field position, our defense is going to have a real tough time keeping points off the board.
On the other hand, if an offense is strong with a poor defense, the offense will most likely have to stray from their gameplan in order to catch up to the other team..
I think we need to get both O and D up to an "average" playing level before we focus on making one "elite".. I think we may just be 2-3 starters on both to get to the average status though. Id say go with a somewhat balanced draft, with the top picks offense heavy because we just need some talent/spark on that side..
what difference does it make, right now? would you rather have an average offense AND and average defense next year and still go nowhere? or would you like to have an above average defense which would be basically set for years to come, letting you address and build the offense the next year?
there are waaaaay to many holes to fill on offense to do it all in one year. BUT we CAN fill the holes on defense and make it a dominate unit with this upcoming draft. HEY that's not to say we can't get a WR and an OL to hopefully add some stability to that side of the ball. we then get to see how good/bad mccoy is with another weapon and a little more protection. but if he sucks and we need a couple more skill players.....all those picks we'll have next year....you can complete the team.
what difference does it make, right now? would you rather have an average offense AND and average defense next year and still go nowhere? or would you like to have an above average defense which would be basically set for years to come, letting you address and build the offense the next year?
there are waaaaay to many holes to fill on offense to do it all in one year. BUT we CAN fill the holes on defense and make it a dominate unit with this upcoming draft. HEY that's not to say we can't get a WR and an OL to hopefully add some stability to that side of the ball. we then get to see how good/bad mccoy is with another weapon and a little more protection. but if he sucks and we need a couple more skill players.....all those picks we'll have next year....you can complete the team.
What difference does it make ?
If we have an average O and average D we can win against the teams we can win against by scoring and preventing them from scoring.If we have a monster D, then we will stop them from scoring but will struggle to score and thereby only win against teams we can win against.The end product therefore is the same. Also, If you think we can complete the team building with the picks we have next year - i think you are overvaluing how much talent we have.
You need to go BPA.
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man you're missing my point.
answer this: either way we draft defense or offense, are we making the playoffs?
if the answer was no (which is the answer) wouldn't it be wiser to focus on the side of the ball which needs the least amount of positional help (defense)? let's see: a DE, a CB and a LB would (if the players pan out ) make us a dominate defense.
in your mind on offense we need a qb, 2 wrs, rb, RT.
why not use our top picks to get dominate defensive players and then concentrate on offensive needs.
mccoy is not the reason the browns sucked last year. the only bright spot of the whole year is the way jauron's defense stepped up. ward(gotta stay healthy) haden, rubin, taylor, sheard, jackson.....imagine adding a claiborne opposite haden or a coples opposite sheard and a beast LB like hightower crushing anything crossing the line of scrimmage. you've got to be nuts not to like that scenario.
not making the playoffs anyways. so if mccoy shits the bed, sit him or cut him and draft all of your offensive wunderkind.
and WTF is BPA?
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BPA-best player available.
I feel it will be more useful to draft WR/RB. Im not sold on McCoy but i dont necessarily believe that RG3 is the solution.
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BPA-best player available.
I feel it will be more useful to draft WR/RB. Im not sold on McCoy but i dont necessarily believe that RG3 is the solution.
BPA-best player available.
duh. brain fart.
wr yes. rb (IMO) no. and pleez no qb. i'm not sold on colt either. if he gets a little help with a running game and a #1 receiver and lays an egg, i guess we're looking at barkley next year.
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Ballpeen, I agree but what about reversing that order? A DE, a Backer, a corner... as in Mercelious, Burfict and Minnifield.
But I also see merit in Drafting RG3, Wright and Minnifield. Or Blackmon, Wright and Minnifield... anyway you slice it you gotta get Minnifield! We are the Dawgpound and Minnifield started the DPound and Chase is a "CHIP off the old Block".
I haven't really thought about it but what about Blackmon AND Wright in the first? I think that our Wide Receiver Corps goes from worst to first in a hurry!
Blackmon
Wright
Little
Cribbs
OUTSTANDING! I think I have a new mock... as long as we get Minnifield and address RT in the Third!
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Ballpeen, I agree but what about reversing that order? A DE, a Backer, a corner... as in Mercelious, Burfict and Minnifield.
But I also see merit in Drafting RG3, Wright and Minnifield. Or Blackmon, Wright and Minnifield... anyway you slice it you gotta get Minnifield! We are the Dawgpound and Minnifield started the DPound and Chase is a "CHIP off the old Block".
I haven't really thought about it but what about Blackmon AND Wright in the first? I think that our Wide Receiver Corps goes from worst to first in a hurry!
Blackmon
Wright
Little
Cribbs
OUTSTANDING! I think I have a new mock... as long as we get Minnifield and address RT in the Third!
Ballpeen, I agree but what about reversing that order? A DE, a Backer, a corner... as in Mercelious, Burfict and Minnifield.
But I also see merit in Drafting RG3, Wright and Minnifield. Or Blackmon, Wright and Minnifield... anyway you slice it you gotta get Minnifield! We are the Dawgpound and Minnifield started the DPound and Chase is a "CHIP off the old Block".
I haven't really thought about it but what about Blackmon AND Wright in the first? I think that our Wide Receiver Corps goes from worst to first in a hurry!
Blackmon
Wright
Little
Cribbs
OUTSTANDING! I think I have a new mock... as long as we get Minnifield and address RT in the Third!
I like ur WR corps suggestion.
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BPA-best player available.
duh. brain fart.
wr yes. rb (IMO) no. and pleez no qb. i'm not sold on colt either. if he gets a little help with a running game and a #1 receiver and lays an egg, i guess we're looking at barkley next year.
duh. brain fart.
wr yes. rb (IMO) no. and pleez no qb. i'm not sold on colt either. if he gets a little help with a running game and a #1 receiver and lays an egg, i guess we're looking at barkley next year.
Maybe not draft a QB, but we need someone to challenge Colt. Maybe draft someone in Round 6 or get a journeyman QB.
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After Last Night's Giants Win I have noticed that:
1. The Giants do not have 1 first round Offensive Linesman in their roster while we have 2.
2. The Giants had 3 awesome WR's while we have 0.5.
3. The Giants have 2 great Strong and fast RB's while we have 1 strong RB and 1 fast RB.
4. If Tom Brady had thrown the hail mary a little higher, the catch would have been made and the Patriots would have won. Also if Bradshaw had run the TD in the previous play, It would have given Brady more seconds to do it.
5. From a Browns draft perspective - It is absolutely vital to draft the BPA to fill in needs and make upgrades - And that means NOT drafting an Offensive linesman in 1st round to shield the Right side.
After Last Night's Giants Win I have noticed that:
1. The Giants do not have 1 first round Offensive Linesman in their roster while we have 2.
2. The Giants had 3 awesome WR's while we have 0.5.
3. The Giants have 2 great Strong and fast RB's while we have 1 strong RB and 1 fast RB.
4. If Tom Brady had thrown the hail mary a little higher, the catch would have been made and the Patriots would have won. Also if Bradshaw had run the TD in the previous play, It would have given Brady more seconds to do it.
5. From a Browns draft perspective - It is absolutely vital to draft the BPA to fill in needs and make upgrades - And that means NOT drafting an Offensive linesman in 1st round to shield the Right side.
I like your #4 and agree. That play was close to a Superbowl Miracle.
Also, I can't believe the Giants first TD pass wasn't intercepted. And they had the fumble with 12 men on the field. Another fumble not recovered. Dropped passes. Hate to say it, but Giants didn't win as much as the Patriots (uncharacteristically?)lost (and I hate the Patriots!)
As for the Browns, I "learned" (LOL) that we need WR weapons, and need to fill positions currently held by non-NFL calibre players. i.e. WR (as mentioned), possibly RB (if Hillis leaves)& FB, DE, OL, perhaps OLB. If we can do this in FA + Draft, we should see a .500 season next year - even with Colt.
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To answer your question... well you've got a much better chance than you do without him.
But your plan is to make sure the Browns don't score enough points to pick any lower than 10th next season? I don't get it. You can make the Browns defense as good as you want, they're still going to lose 10 games and score under 200 points.
To abuse a metaphor, you're essentially saying, forget the car, get the best pit crew we can... we'll still lose... just not by quite as much.
-jj
no, i don't like nascar so i don't pay any attention to anything that comes from it.
here's my point (as i've stated many times before). best case scenario iun my mind as far as the upcoming draft, we trade down, gain another 2nd round pick and still grab claiborne or some other impact defensive player in a posiiton of need. and that's a term you will hear me speak about throughout this thread: position of need. the last couple of years we could have won at least three games more than we did. it wasn't colt's fault that the jets just threw a sideline pass to (whoever) and we missed a game saving tackle. it's not colt's fault that we couldn't punch the ball into the endzone being 2 yards out. there is plenty of fault o go around.
if all the pieces were in place and colt was our qb and we won ten games would we be having this conversation. all the blame falls onto the qb. how about the tackle that missed blocking the opponent's left side DE all game long? how about the wr who couldn't outrun a turtle and if he did get open dropped the ball?
we are going NOWHERE next year. add to the D make them top 5. add someone on the OL that can handle a dt/de on the right side. a wr and a speed back. i don't care how you do it....FA or draft. but since we are going NOWHERE why waste the top pick on an unproven (yet very athletic) qb who's already been hurt once in his career and sat out most of a season, plays in a spread offense and is just the 'man of the minute'?
add those pieces above and see what happens. if colt shit s the bed, we can all suck on barkley's balls or who ever other man-child people will be salivating over next year.
no, i don't like nascar so i don't pay any attention to anything that comes from it.
here's my point (as i've stated many times before). best case scenario iun my mind as far as the upcoming draft, we trade down, gain another 2nd round pick and still grab claiborne or some other impact defensive player in a posiiton of need. and that's a term you will hear me speak about throughout this thread: position of need. the last couple of years we could have won at least three games more than we did. it wasn't colt's fault that the jets just threw a sideline pass to (whoever) and we missed a game saving tackle. it's not colt's fault that we couldn't punch the ball into the endzone being 2 yards out. there is plenty of fault o go around.
if all the pieces were in place and colt was our qb and we won ten games would we be having this conversation. all the blame falls onto the qb. how about the tackle that missed blocking the opponent's left side DE all game long? how about the wr who couldn't outrun a turtle and if he did get open dropped the ball?
we are going NOWHERE next year. add to the D make them top 5. add someone on the OL that can handle a dt/de on the right side. a wr and a speed back. i don't care how you do it....FA or draft. but since we are going NOWHERE why waste the top pick on an unproven (yet very athletic) qb who's already been hurt once in his career and sat out most of a season, plays in a spread offense and is just the 'man of the minute'?
add those pieces above and see what happens. if colt shit s the bed, we can all suck on barkley's balls or who ever other man-child people will be salivating over next year.
So would you like me to post the Patriots and Giants defensive stats for the year? Trust me it ain't pretty.
1) Couples has motivation issues- pass. Mike Adams kicked his ass in practices.
2) Claiborne? Care to tell me what the Jets and Eagles were doing come Playoff time with two stud CBs? Like watching them on the Tube, just like the Browns?
3) If we follow your defensive Paradigm, you can kiss Barkley bye-bye come 2013.
And as far as position of need- I'm going to side with (believe it or not) Ghoolie and (not so believable) JJ. Colt's a nice kid, tries hard, and is Charlie Frye II.
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no, i don't like nascar so i don't pay any attention to anything that comes from it.
here's my point (as i've stated many times before). best case scenario iun my mind as far as the upcoming draft, we trade down, gain another 2nd round pick and still grab claiborne or some other impact defensive player in a posiiton of need. and that's a term you will hear me speak about throughout this thread: position of need. the last couple of years we could have won at least three games more than we did. it wasn't colt's fault that the jets just threw a sideline pass to (whoever) and we missed a game saving tackle. it's not colt's fault that we couldn't punch the ball into the endzone being 2 yards out. there is plenty of fault o go around.
if all the pieces were in place and colt was our qb and we won ten games would we be having this conversation. all the blame falls onto the qb. how about the tackle that missed blocking the opponent's left side DE all game long? how about the wr who couldn't outrun a turtle and if he did get open dropped the ball?
we are going NOWHERE next year. add to the D make them top 5. add someone on the OL that can handle a dt/de on the right side. a wr and a speed back. i don't care how you do it....FA or draft. but since we are going NOWHERE why waste the top pick on an unproven (yet very athletic) qb who's already been hurt once in his career and sat out most of a season, plays in a spread offense and is just the 'man of the minute'?
add those pieces above and see what happens. if colt shit s the bed, we can all suck on barkley's balls or who ever other man-child people will be salivating over next year.
So would you like me to post the Patriots and Giants defensive stats for the year? Trust me it ain't pretty.
1) Couples has motivation issues- pass. Mike Adams kicked his ass in practices.
2) Claiborne? Care to tell me what the Jets and Eagles were doing come Playoff time with two stud CBs? Like watching them on the Tube, just like the Browns?
3) If we follow your defensive Paradigm, you can kiss Barkley bye-bye come 2013.
And as far as position of need- I'm going to side with (believe it or not) Ghoolie and (not so believable) JJ. Colt's a nice kid, tries hard, and is Charlie Frye II.
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