Todd Mcshay Has Us...
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Trading the 4 and 22 to the Rams according to his interview on the really big show this morning, he didn't mention any other player for Cleveland he has locked in making this deal.... with that said
Love it?
Hate it?
I hate it if we use both picks for him, esp if we have a chance to snag blackmon off the board if the Rams do wanna move out of the 2 spot.
Trading the 4 and 22 to the Rams according to his interview on the really big show this morning, he didn't mention any other player for Cleveland he has locked in making this deal.... with that said
Love it?
Hate it?
I hate it if we use both picks for him, esp if we have a chance to snag blackmon off the board if the Rams do wanna move out of the 2 spot.
No way in F**KING hell would I want the Browns to do that. Not that I would not be for them drafting RGIII, but I do NOT want them trading their other first round pick to go up just 2 slots to get him. If he is there at 4, snatch him. If not, move on.
The Browns need TOO much to not get 2 talented players out of their first round picks.
If it was to go up to #1 to get Andrew Luck, maybe, but not to get RGIII.
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We need more than just talented, solid players. We need all-pro , superstar game changers at priority positions.
If RG3 is to become a star franchise quarterback than it's absolutely necessary and no question to trade the house to get him. If they do that and he becomes a franchise guy no one is going to care about the picks traded to get him when we are in the playoffs. On the other hand if we do that and he's not what we hope it will cripple us for years. And as a Browns fan it's hard not to be pessimistic.
Honestly at this point the Browns are so much of a joke why not take the risk and swing for the fences.
On one hand I like the idea of drafting solid guys and building a strong foundation but while new talent develops other talent declines and ages so we end up stuck in mediocrity. Sooner or later you have to gamble and this seems like a good as time as any on a guy like RG3.
At the end of the day passing up on the opportunity to take him is playing not to lose.
"All Truth Passes Through Three stages. First, It Is Ridiculed, Second It Is Violently Opposed, And Third, It Is Accepted As Self-Evident" ~Arthur Schopenhauer -
If the Browns let the Redskins trade with the Rams with anything less than a ridiculously lopsided trade in favor of St. Louis then we will remain a laughing stock of the league. Only on Browns forums am I hearing standing pat with McCoy is a option in favor of trading the #22 pick.
I mean, only EVERY nationally recognized media outlet has is trading UP to #2 using this 'holy grail' #22 pick.
The fixation by Browns fans on this #22 pick is laughable at best. If the Browns trade #4 + #22 + Atl 4th for Griffin, what's the big deal? They would have essentially leveraged Julio Jones for Taylor + Skrine + RGIII.
Ummmm... what's the problem? If you some how think trading three picks for one player is a lot then if McCoy has as much as potential as you all say he does then Heckert should be able to flip him for a 3rd or 4th round pick at minimum.
What?
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Let me ask it to you guys this way: If you could get a matt ryan, joe flacco, matt stafford, cam newton etc QB would you trade two first round picks for them? I'm in no way saying that RGIII is or is going to be that good, but most all the experts say he's going to be. The way I see it, I take that opportunity all day long.
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Why wouldn't RGIII be as good as the good as the guys you mentioned?
This is where I'm getting thrown off by Browns fans perception of RGIII. He has all the tools to be a dynamic quarterback. He's insanely accurate, has top 3 arm strength, and is an undeniable leader.
Where's the doubt manifesting itself from when it comes to projecting this guy at the next level? He's a no brainer selection that every national writer seems to understand the gravity of his talents. Now why aren't Browns fans in a consensus about him?
I'm very confused by this.
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If we trade our 22nd pick to move up two slots for RGR3, then i'm warning everyone on this Board right now that he'd better be a star from Day 1 with whatever line and whatever WR's are on our roster. If he isn't winning (starting with Week 1), then my assault will make Lumberg's episode here look like a fairy tale.
i haven't seen a love affair like this since we drafted Wali Rainer (and he was a 4th rounder). i'm getting psyched for this draft.
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Trading the 4 and 22 to the Rams according to his interview on the really big show this morning, he didn't mention any other player for Cleveland he has locked in making this deal.... with that said
Love it?
Hate it?
I hate it if we use both picks for him, esp if we have a chance to snag blackmon off the board if the Rams do wanna move out of the 2 spot.
No way in F**KING hell would I want the Browns to do that. Not that I would not be for them drafting RGIII, but I do NOT want them trading their other first round pick to go up just 2 slots to get him. If he is there at 4, snatch him. If not, move on.
The Browns need TOO much to not get 2 talented players out of their first round picks.
If it was to go up to #1 to get Andrew Luck, maybe, but not to get RGIII.
No way in F**KING hell would I want the Browns to do that. Not that I would not be for them drafting RGIII, but I do NOT want them trading their other first round pick to go up just 2 slots to get him. If he is there at 4, snatch him. If not, move on.
The Browns need TOO much to not get 2 talented players out of their first round picks.
If it was to go up to #1 to get Andrew Luck, maybe, but not to get RGIII.
I agree 100%
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Zombo said:
The Rams aren't going to take a QB, so if teams are smart they'll just force them to pick. Teams like the Redskins aren't smart, so if they try and jump in there at #2, then the Browns have to compete with that if they want their guy. If he is their guy.
Hate to see them draft this high and NOT come away with franchise QB prospect. After Luck and Grif the pickings are slim, IMO.
Trading a first rounder to move up seems steep ... I like our boy Heckert, I bet he gets him without overpaying.
Zombo
I don't think I agree with this. The Redskins know that the Rams aren't going to take RGIII; therefore, they will think they can get RGIII/2nd pick for cheaper than they can from the Browns at 4 because they know the Browns actually are considering and like him as an option.
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The Browns will never compete without a QB that teams have to respect.
Colt is not that QB.
RG3 has shown as much as any College QB at being successful in the NFL.
You make the move for a franchise QB with Olympic speed.
Heckert will get the best deal possible...Phil Savage he is not.
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The Browns will never compete without a QB that teams have to respect.
Colt is not that QB.
RG3 has shown as much as any College QB at being successful in the NFL.
You make the move for a franchise QB with Olympic speed.
Heckert will get the best deal possible...Phil Savage he is not.
The Browns will never compete without a QB that teams have to respect.
Colt is not that QB.
RG3 has shown as much as any College QB at being successful in the NFL.
You make the move for a franchise QB with Olympic speed.
Heckert will get the best deal possible...Phil Savage he is not.
Thank you... I mean, seriously, what's up with Browns fans? We really in that stage where fans are blaming the fact a QB can't/won't throw the ball down field on coaching/young players?
Who has the ball in their hands every play?
Who see's the defense before anyone else?
Who has the ear of every player on the team?
Despite all this, Colt really can't be expected to average more than 5 YPA?? That's five yards per pass attempt? That's abysmal, man.
0-10 in the AFC North?
Cmon, people... we really want another year of that nonsense? You think a rookie right tackle or receiver is gonna make Colt McCoy a Super Bowl caliber quarterback? We already have a Pro Bowl left tackle and center -- what has that gotten us?
Remember you all blamed the defense for giving up 25 points a game? Well, last year they gave up less than 20 and had a top-10 rated defense.
Why did that get us? Still 4-12...
Mediocre quarterback play is just that... mediocre. The time is now to draft the franchise talent who will make defenses all across the league FINALLY gameplan for us week in, week out. It's time, man. Damn, its time.
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4 + 22 to move up 2 spots to nab RG3 = Stupid
Might as well have Kellen Winslow Jr. hand him his Brown's shirt at Madison Square Garden.
4 + 22 to move up 3 spots to nab Luck = Genius
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Why wouldn't RGIII be as good as the good as the guys you mentioned?
This is where I'm getting thrown off by Browns fans perception of RGIII. He has all the tools to be a dynamic quarterback. He's insanely accurate, has top 3 arm strength, and is an undeniable leader.
Where's the doubt manifesting itself from when it comes to projecting this guy at the next level? He's a no brainer selection that every national writer seems to understand the gravity of his talents. Now why aren't Browns fans in a consensus about him?
I'm very confused by this.
Why wouldn't RGIII be as good as the good as the guys you mentioned?
This is where I'm getting thrown off by Browns fans perception of RGIII. He has all the tools to be a dynamic quarterback. He's insanely accurate, has top 3 arm strength, and is an undeniable leader.
Where's the doubt manifesting itself from when it comes to projecting this guy at the next level? He's a no brainer selection that every national writer seems to understand the gravity of his talents. Now why aren't Browns fans in a consensus about him?
I'm very confused by this.
Not everyone is as high on RGIII as you are. The reality is if you trade away that 22 there is still huge holes at every other skill position on offense. And no matter how good a rookie is you can't expect them to make Ben Watson, MoMass, Cribbs, and the rest of the misfit kids look like superstars. RGIII isn't going to step into the NFL and save the Browns. He is a rookie and is going to have to grow into a great QB.
And as high as you are on RGIII is how down you are on Colt. Not saying Colt is anything special, but it does take time for QB's to develop sometimes. Some people rather just see if Colt can succeed in a situation that is set up for success rather then failure. Drew Brees is a perfect example to Colt. There college careers, first 2 seasons as a pro, and physical stature paralell each other. Don't twist that into me saying Colt is going to Brees because I am not. I am just trying to give you some perspective on the situation.
I can go either way on the subject when it comes to sticking with Colt or moving onto a new QB. I personally would think it is a mistake to trade valuable picks away when we have a ton of holes of fill. In fact if RGIII fell to us at the 4 I would love nothing more then the Browns make a move with the Skins to pick up an extra second and an additional first next year. Then we have 2 first rounders next year to use to either move up in the draft with the grab a QB or if we or the Skins still suck (which wouldnt be suprising) we wont even need to move up. Hell the way the Browns and Skins have been lately we could end up with a pair of top 10 picks.
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The Browns will never compete without a QB that teams have to respect.
Colt is not that QB.
RG3 has shown as much as any College QB at being successful in the NFL.
You make the move for a franchise QB with Olympic speed.
Heckert will get the best deal possible...Phil Savage he is not.
Thank you... I mean, seriously, what's up with Browns fans? We really in that stage where fans are blaming the fact a QB can't/won't throw the ball down field on coaching/young players?
Who has the ball in their hands every play?
Who see's the defense before anyone else?
Who has the ear of every player on the team?
Despite all this, Colt really can't be expected to average more than 5 YPA?? That's five yards per pass attempt? That's abysmal, man.
0-10 in the AFC North?
Cmon, people... we really want another year of that nonsense? You think a rookie right tackle or receiver is gonna make Colt McCoy a Super Bowl caliber quarterback? We already have a Pro Bowl left tackle and center -- what has that gotten us?
Remember you all blamed the defense for giving up 25 points a game? Well, last year they gave up less than 20 and had a top-10 rated defense.
Why did that get us? Still 4-12...
Mediocre quarterback play is just that... mediocre. The time is now to draft the franchise talent who will make defenses all across the league FINALLY gameplan for us week in, week out. It's time, man. Damn, its time.
Thank you... I mean, seriously, what's up with Browns fans? We really in that stage where fans are blaming the fact a QB can't/won't throw the ball down field on coaching/young players?
Who has the ball in their hands every play?
Who see's the defense before anyone else?
Who has the ear of every player on the team?
Despite all this, Colt really can't be expected to average more than 5 YPA?? That's five yards per pass attempt? That's abysmal, man.
0-10 in the AFC North?
Cmon, people... we really want another year of that nonsense? You think a rookie right tackle or receiver is gonna make Colt McCoy a Super Bowl caliber quarterback? We already have a Pro Bowl left tackle and center -- what has that gotten us?
Remember you all blamed the defense for giving up 25 points a game? Well, last year they gave up less than 20 and had a top-10 rated defense.
Why did that get us? Still 4-12...
Mediocre quarterback play is just that... mediocre. The time is now to draft the franchise talent who will make defenses all across the league FINALLY gameplan for us week in, week out. It's time, man. Damn, its time.
What's up with Browns fans? I guess most just realize that one guy can't magically turn the franchise around. No one is saying that QBs aren't important. In fact, almost every football fan would agree that it is the most important position in football. But for a QB to have success, he has to be surrounded by talent: good WRs, TEs, RBs, and Lineman. A QB change will only have an impact if we can get another good WR, figure out what we are going to do about RB, fix the right side of our line, and decide if Cameron is the future at TE.
Too many question marks to put all our eggs into one basket. If H and H like RG3 they will take him if he is at #4. We won't trade up because we need all the picks we can get to completely overhaul our offense (plus OLB, DE, CB, S, ect on defense). And that would just fix our starting lineup. The Browns still lack quality depth all around..
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Zombo said:
The Rams aren't going to take a QB, so if teams are smart they'll just force them to pick. Teams like the Redskins aren't smart, so if they try and jump in there at #2, then the Browns have to compete with that if they want their guy. If he is their guy.
Hate to see them draft this high and NOT come away with franchise QB prospect. After Luck and Grif the pickings are slim, IMO.
Trading a first rounder to move up seems steep ... I like our boy Heckert, I bet he gets him without overpaying.
Zombo
Yes Z, but sanity on the Browns part is going to have to prevail- if Snyder can't get Manning and offers the ranch to move up- the 2012 first and second, a 2013 first rounder and um, say Jabbar Gaffney. We have to pass. In that scenario- the Vikes certainly take Kalil, and we have Blackmon sitting in our lap. LOL, if the Rams then want him badly enough- we move down into Washington's former slot and pick up the Deadskins second rounder that they forfeited to take RGIII. Sound interesting?
@ #6 we can take Richardson, or a stud DE.
The other interesting scenario would be if BOTH the Browns and Redskins call the Rams bluff and RGIII is there at #3. The cost for the Browns is way lower, and I doubt the Vikes would drop all the way down to #6, because Kalil will be gonzo fer sure.
Oh and if, if, IF H&H are absolutely certain RGIII is a true franchise qb on the level of say McNabb I don't have a problem giving up the #22 pick to get him- though I would much prefer offering our second rounder, and a mid round 2013 pick.
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The Browns will never compete without a QB that teams have to respect.
Colt is not that QB.
RG3 has shown as much as any College QB at being successful in the NFL.
You make the move for a franchise QB with Olympic speed.
Heckert will get the best deal possible...Phil Savage he is not.
Thank you... I mean, seriously, what's up with Browns fans? We really in that stage where fans are blaming the fact a QB can't/won't throw the ball down field on coaching/young players?
Who has the ball in their hands every play?
Who see's the defense before anyone else?
Who has the ear of every player on the team?
Despite all this, Colt really can't be expected to average more than 5 YPA?? That's five yards per pass attempt? That's abysmal, man.
0-10 in the AFC North?
Cmon, people... we really want another year of that nonsense? You think a rookie right tackle or receiver is gonna make Colt McCoy a Super Bowl caliber quarterback? We already have a Pro Bowl left tackle and center -- what has that gotten us?
Remember you all blamed the defense for giving up 25 points a game? Well, last year they gave up less than 20 and had a top-10 rated defense.
Why did that get us? Still 4-12...
Mediocre quarterback play is just that... mediocre. The time is now to draft the franchise talent who will make defenses all across the league FINALLY gameplan for us week in, week out. It's time, man. Damn, its time.
Thank you... I mean,
Who has the ball in their hands every play?
Who see's their balls before anyone else?
Who has the rear of every player on the team?
Despite all this, Colt really can't be expected to average more than 5 YPA?? That's five yards per pass attempt? That's abysmal, man.
Why did that get us? Still 4-12...
The time is now to shaft the franchise talent who will make defensless moves.It's time, man. Damn, its time.
7 posts in and you're movin all-in on the gay flush?
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Why wouldn't RGIII be as good as the good as the guys you mentioned?
This is where I'm getting thrown off by Browns fans perception of RGIII. He has all the tools to be a dynamic quarterback. He's insanely accurate, has top 3 arm strength, and is an undeniable leader.
Where's the doubt manifesting itself from when it comes to projecting this guy at the next level? He's a no brainer selection that every national writer seems to understand the gravity of his talents. Now why aren't Browns fans in a consensus about him?
I'm very confused by this.
Why wouldn't RGIII be as good as the good as the guys you mentioned?
This is where I'm getting thrown off by Browns fans perception of RGIII. He has all the tools to be a dynamic quarterback. He's insanely accurate, has top 3 arm strength, and is an undeniable leader.
Where's the doubt manifesting itself from when it comes to projecting this guy at the next level? He's a no brainer selection that every national writer seems to understand the gravity of his talents. Now why aren't Browns fans in a consensus about him?
I'm very confused by this.
He is "insanely accurate" out of the shotgun, in a spread offense, and with the deep ball. Not "insanely accurate" with the short to intermediate passes from what I've seen on film and read, not saying he can't be or won't be.. The short passes are obviously crucial in the WCO as we all know, and so is taking snaps from under center. These are two key aspects that are still unknown with RGIII. Keep in mind Colt was "shunned" in his first offseason and didnt have a real offseason last year, with a patched line and no playmakers this year. The WCO QB position has been said by experts to take time to learn and develop under, and also timing and chemistry b/w the QB and WRs is noted to be important. Given all of those reasons, I am not sure that RGIII can run the WCO, just as I am not sure Colt cannot run the offense effectively yet. It's rash decisions like trading the #22 and #4 pick for RGIII that has led to the Browns being pathetic since their return.. You build through the draft. This is well documented and agreed upon. Personally, I would take RGIII if he fell to 4, but if he doesnt, I would work on building an actually talented team, and not take the "easy" home-run shot, silver bullet, quick fix etc. in RGIII that may not pan out. I wouldnt hate to see what Colt can do with actual weapons and an actual offseason...
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Why wouldn't RGIII be as good as the good as the guys you mentioned?
This is where I'm getting thrown off by Browns fans perception of RGIII. He has all the tools to be a dynamic quarterback. He's insanely accurate, has top 3 arm strength, and is an undeniable leader.
Where's the doubt manifesting itself from when it comes to projecting this guy at the next level? He's a no brainer selection that every national writer seems to understand the gravity of his talents. Now why aren't Browns fans in a consensus about him?
I'm very confused by this.
He is "insanely accurate" out of the shotgun, in a spread offense, and with the deep ball. Not "insanely accurate" with the short to intermediate passes from what I've seen on film and read, not saying he can't be or won't be.. The short passes are obviously crucial in the WCO as we all know, and so is taking snaps from under center. These are two key aspects that are still unknown with RGIII. Keep in mind Colt was "shunned" in his first offseason and didnt have a real offseason last year, with a patched line and no playmakers this year. The WCO QB position has been said by experts to take time to learn and develop under, and also timing and chemistry b/w the QB and WRs is noted to be important. Given all of those reasons, I am not sure that RGIII can run the WCO, just as I am not sure Colt cannot run the offense effectively yet. It's rash decisions like trading the #22 and #4 pick for RGIII that has led to the Browns being pathetic since their return.. You build through the draft. This is well documented and agreed upon. Personally, I would take RGIII if he fell to 4, but if he doesnt, I would work on building an actually talented team, and not take the "easy" home-run shot, silver bullet, quick fix etc. in RGIII that may not pan out. I wouldnt hate to see what Colt can do with actual weapons and an actual offseason...
He is "insanely accurate" out of the shotgun, in a spread offense, and with the deep ball. Not "insanely accurate" with the short to intermediate passes from what I've seen on film and read, not saying he can't be or won't be.. The short passes are obviously crucial in the WCO as we all know, and so is taking snaps from under center. These are two key aspects that are still unknown with RGIII. Keep in mind Colt was "shunned" in his first offseason and didnt have a real offseason last year, with a patched line and no playmakers this year. The WCO QB position has been said by experts to take time to learn and develop under, and also timing and chemistry b/w the QB and WRs is noted to be important. Given all of those reasons, I am not sure that RGIII can run the WCO, just as I am not sure Colt cannot run the offense effectively yet. It's rash decisions like trading the #22 and #4 pick for RGIII that has led to the Browns being pathetic since their return.. You build through the draft. This is well documented and agreed upon. Personally, I would take RGIII if he fell to 4, but if he doesnt, I would work on building an actually talented team, and not take the "easy" home-run shot, silver bullet, quick fix etc. in RGIII that may not pan out. I wouldnt hate to see what Colt can do with actual weapons and an actual offseason...
80% of your post is speculative banter.
In three years at Baylor he threw 1200 passes with only 17 being intercepted.
Try to marginalize those numbers all you want but RGIII is accurate no matter the circumstances. Short. Intermediate. Deep. In addition, he took snaps under center at Baylor. He was not a 100% shotgun QB there.
And really, the notion the WCO is this uber difficult offense to pick up is just hogwash. Cmon, man. You need to do better than that. It's so difficult that QBs with average arm strength are taught it to compensate for their lack of downfield throwing ability.
That doesn't sound complex, that sounds like a copout.
The principles of the WCO will be ripe for RGIII's talents. He has a trigger release and is accurate in and out of receiver's breaks. Add that to his arm strength, he's made for the offense.
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