Mike Wallace?
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YOu listed Smith twice, plus, I don't think Couch was a bust. People don't understand the difficulty he was put under, and the fact that he took the team from being something only on paper to the playoffs. Certainly Bradford cannot be said to be better than Couch at this point....though obviously it is still early in Bradford's career. The same is true for Newton. Though he looks like a stud, it is too early. You put Vince Young down as a bust...yet early on he looked every bit as good if not better than Newton. VY after all has a 30-17 record as a starting QB. Not too shabby if you think.
Akili<>Alex
Couch defines bust.
I'm going to guess that you are just being sarcastic on the Newton and Young comparison. Newton had 35 TDs this year Young has 58 in his six year career.
Akili<>Alex
Couch defines bust.
Bull. That comment tells me that you must not have been alive when that whole thing went down. The Browns went from a paper team to the playoffs in 4 years with Couch at the helm.
Compared to other Browns QB taken since like Charlie Frye and Brady Quinn, Couch is a Hall of Famer
I'm going to guess that you are just being sarcastic on the Newton and Young comparison. Newton had 35 TDs this year Young has 58 in his six year career.
I am not being sarcastic at all. I am looking at their teams winning pct.
So far, Newton is looking good...yes, better than VY....but it is early. VY was a house afire his first year or two as well. Newton will probably end up doing better than VY, whose real problems were his emotional breakdowns, not his physical play.
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Eh, too much Steeler stink on him for me to agree to him. Matter of fact I wouldn't touch ANY of those "tainted" players... Just rubs me the wrong way, YUUUCK!
Eh, too much Steeler stink on him for me to agree to him. Matter of fact I wouldn't touch ANY of those "tainted" players... Just rubs me the wrong way, YUUUCK!
just curious: how did you feel about Orpheus Roye and his time with the Browns? were you able to accept his production? did you feel deep down he wasn't giving it his all?
do you harbor animosity against Pinkston for having his roots in the Pgh area and growing up a Steeler fan?
fwiw, Cribbs is from the DC area and he never reps that set that i ever hear. either he's ultra careful w his regional politics or he genuinely chooses Northern Ohio over his hometown area. >>
which leads me to my question. (not saying Cribbs feels this way about DC but....) what if Wallace feels completely grimy being there and he wants out?? he couldn't help that they drafted him and his ticket out is to outplay his draft position and current contract -- which he has clearly done -- to attract the attention of the rest of the league in order to try to force Pgh's hand.
admittedly, i have prejudices against Steeler players as well, but imo this one is worth giving the benefit of the doubt until we know he bleeds black/yellow.
the 2012 Browns team needs a guy like this. he's a proven, quality young talent. according to LaCanfora Pittsburgh is in "cap hell". i hope Heckert exploits this and tries hard to get him.
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last i checked, with 2 cuts and 3 contract restructures, the steelers have 10 mil to trim to get under the cap. ~5mil for rookies, and an additional ~9 mil for wallace....then the remaining signings to fill the roster. so theyre still looking at trimming 25 mil from the cap.....gonna be pretty difficult unless half the team restructures, which will continue to roll the snowball down the hill to next year.
woodleys cap hit next year (2013) is 13.1 million....
keep prorating all those bonuses and creating dead money when you are forced to cut.
i think this is the worst off the stools have been in a while.
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If Kendall Wright turns out to be as good as Wallace, that would be amazing for whoever gets him. I don't think that giving up the #4 for Wallace is worth it (I don't think drafting Blackmon at #4 is worth it either). But if the choice was the 22 for Wallace (vs. drafting Wright or Floyd or any other WR), I'd do that in a second.
I agree with the second half of your post, but I really don't understand how people can say Blackmon isn't worth a #4. I take Blackmon over RG3 in a second. RG3 has the athletic ability but I just don't see him as the next Cam Newton like many think. If he isn't than he isn't worth the #4 pick. Blackmon will be the next T.O. type and a HOF if he can stay healthy over his career. He is a about as close as you can get to a lock!
But I would still like to see Cleveland trade down up to 5 spots, and get this years 1st and 2nd round and next years 2st round from Washington in the opportunity presents itself. That way we get 4 quality starters this year if we pick right.
I agree with the second half of your post, but I really don't understand how people can say Blackmon isn't worth a #4. I take Blackmon over RG3 in a second. RG3 has the athletic ability but I just don't see him as the next Cam Newton like many think. If he isn't than he isn't worth the #4 pick. Blackmon will be the next T.O. type and a HOF if he can stay healthy over his career. He is a about as close as you can get to a lock!
will you still be calling him a lock if he runs a 4.5 at the combine?
if he does, don't blame it on a bad performance cuz all i've read are saying he doesn't have elite speed. Plus he's 6'1". sure, he has crazy "ups" and can out-jump Plexico, and his body control is AMAZING but it needs to be with that height. it remains to be seen if he can get separation in the NFL but, if he can track the ball in the air like AJ Green, Brandon Marshall, Fitz, or Megatron to name a few then maybe, just maybe he might be worth the #4 overall. because he fights for the ball and usually comes down w it that helps his cause a lot.
that said, i'd still consider Wallace w the #4 overall as well. i need to know more about him though.
good locker room guy? yes?
good citizen? yes?
tough? yes?
sure-handed? YES
crisp routes? YES
good vertical? YES
willing to go over the middle? i really don't know. if no >> total deal breaker for me.
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thank you for the feedback choco. i'm barely a casual steeler observer so there may be a lot i'm missing regarding him.
to give up that 4th overall, he'd really have to have no glaring holes. but i'm sure Heckert has the answer to any question i'm asking.
OT and just thinking out loud, i wonder if any of the Blackmon fans on this board feel he is a better commodity than AJ Green.i like the kid but that thought makes me chuckle.
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If the Steelers let Mike Wallace hit restricted free agency, they will have trouble keeping him. He was one of the elite recievers last year, ranking between 7th to 12th overall in many publications. The Steelers rarely use the franchise tag (which they could do) but they probably believe they can match any restricted free agency offer (which would be foolish). For a play-off calibre team, giving up a late 1st round pick for Wallace is essentially a no-brainer.
If your team is considering say Blackmon or is even in the market for a game breaking wide out who stretches the field, giving up a top 10 pick for a known quantity still seems like a worth while investment. Once the March deadline hits, you will know where the Browns stand in terms of the draft, assuming Wallace hits RFA. If they don't make an offer for Wallace, your front office is likely gearing up to get RG3, which probably means they will be considering moving up in the 1st round. If they have Blackmon as their target, they will have to pursue Wallace to some degree. My guess is someone will way overpay for Wallace's services and basically cause the Browns to stop pursuing him.
Not wanting Wallace because he played for the Steelers is stupid. I'd love to have Joe Thomas on my team, and I wouldn't really care about his tainted Browns past.
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Gip, I won't argue with you on Couch but as a #1 pick you would like to see a much better career path. The thing I remember about Couch is he would show why he was a #1 pick one game which reeled you in then follow it up with some stinkers consecutively.
As far as Young goes, his first two years the Titans were 16th and 22nd in scoring I would hardly call that on fire. If you have watched Newton, you can see how impressive that kid is. I honestly hate admitting that because I was one of his biggest critics coming into the league. Kid is special.
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wow...only browns fans would think a rookie WR is worth the #4 while simultaneously thinking a stud #1 WR with 3 years experience is not.
some of you muthafuckas are downright we-fuckin-ta-did.
"randy moss only got a 4th rounder!" so fucking what...how old was he again? you really think its an apples to apples comparison?
see....dumb muthafuckas....
wow...only browns fans would think a rookie WR is worth the #4 while simultaneously thinking a stud #1 WR with 3 years experience is not.
some of you muthafuckas are downright we-fuckin-ta-did.
"randy moss only got a 4th rounder!" so fucking what...how old was he again? you really think its an apples to apples comparison?
see....dumb muthafuckas....
Randy Moss is a HOF caliber WR who was still at the top of his game. So if he is only worth a 4th, you want to be the #4 overall pick for who again?
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wow...only browns fans would think a rookie WR is worth the #4 while simultaneously thinking a stud #1 WR with 3 years experience is not.
some of you muthafuckas are downright we-fuckin-ta-did.
"randy moss only got a 4th rounder!" so fucking what...how old was he again? you really think its an apples to apples comparison?
see....dumb muthafuckas....
Randy Moss is a HOF caliber WR who was still at the top of his game. So if he is only worth a 4th, you want to be the #4 overall pick for who again?
Randy Moss is a HOF caliber WR who was still at the top of his game. So if he is only worth a 4th, you want to be the #4 overall pick for who again?
A malcontent that was coming off of a year where he had 553 yards and 3 TDs is never going to garner much. I'm not sure about some of your memories.
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wow...only browns fans would think a rookie WR is worth the #4 while simultaneously thinking a stud #1 WR with 3 years experience is not.
some of you muthafuckas are downright we-fuckin-ta-did.
"randy moss only got a 4th rounder!" so fucking what...how old was he again? you really think its an apples to apples comparison?
see....dumb muthafuckas....
Randy Moss is a HOF caliber WR who was still at the top of his game. So if he is only worth a 4th, you want to be the #4 overall pick for who again?
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No shit, Sherlock. Maybe I should have put the 4th instead of a 4th but if you have been following along you would know that I am well aware of what we would be giving up. I'd take a player of Wallace's caliber in a heartbeat over an unknown commodity.
You're stupid then. Randy Moss only garnered a 4th rd pick, you want to give a 1st for Wallace, you are crazy. Absolute highest I would even consider is a 3rd pick and even then I would be hesitant.
You're stupid then. Randy Moss only garnered a 4th rd pick, you want to give a 1st for Wallace, you are crazy. Absolute highest I would even consider is a 3rd pick and even then I would be hesitant.
Are you a real person? or a ridiculous alter ego? Randy Moss garnered a 4th round pick on the back end of his career when the Patriots MASTERS of taking every last ounce out of their players let him walk. He then proceeded to do absolutely NOTHING. I'd give up Wallace for 4th overall in a heart beat BUT I'd be sad to see Wallace go because he's quickly becoming an elite option.
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last i checked, with 2 cuts and 3 contract restructures, the steelers have 10 mil to trim to get under the cap. ~5mil for rookies, and an additional ~9 mil for wallace....then the remaining signings to fill the roster. so theyre still looking at trimming 25 mil from the cap.....gonna be pretty difficult unless half the team restructures, which will continue to roll the snowball down the hill to next year.
woodleys cap hit next year (2013) is 13.1 million....
keep prorating all those bonuses and creating dead money when you are forced to cut.
i think this is the worst off the stools have been in a while.
last i checked, with 2 cuts and 3 contract restructures, the steelers have 10 mil to trim to get under the cap. ~5mil for rookies, and an additional ~9 mil for wallace....then the remaining signings to fill the roster. so theyre still looking at trimming 25 mil from the cap.....gonna be pretty difficult unless half the team restructures, which will continue to roll the snowball down the hill to next year.
woodleys cap hit next year (2013) is 13.1 million....
keep prorating all those bonuses and creating dead money when you are forced to cut.
i think this is the worst off the stools have been in a while.
Aaron Smith, Casey Hampton, James Farrior, Hines Ward all could be gone. I also sincerely doubt Wallace will get the franchise tag and if he does for some reason i see a long term deal being struck almost immediately. Wallace is not worth 9.4 million dollars for one year, not yet at least.
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colon got ya down to 8 mil over...so your gettin there. of those 4, farrior isn't going anywhere. he's still playing at a high level, and sylvester(?) isn't quite ready to take over yet. he's got one more year.
with hoke already retired, not sure big snack is a desired casualty tho. thats both your NT...
hines is done...i wouldnt waste the roster spot on him tbh. he got his 1000 catches....time to hang it up.
smith isn't really needed. how many games has he played in the last 3 years? heywood and hood have taken over there very well.
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Gip, I won't argue with you on Couch but as a #1 pick you would like to see a much better career path. The thing I remember about Couch is he would show why he was a #1 pick one game which reeled you in then follow it up with some stinkers consecutively.
As far as Young goes, his first two years the Titans were 16th and 22nd in scoring I would hardly call that on fire. If you have watched Newton, you can see how impressive that kid is. I honestly hate admitting that because I was one of his biggest critics coming into the league. Kid is special.
Gip, I won't argue with you on Couch but as a #1 pick you would like to see a much better career path. The thing I remember about Couch is he would show why he was a #1 pick one game which reeled you in then follow it up with some stinkers consecutively.
As far as Young goes, his first two years the Titans were 16th and 22nd in scoring I would hardly call that on fire. If you have watched Newton, you can see how impressive that kid is. I honestly hate admitting that because I was one of his biggest critics coming into the league. Kid is special.
I'm inpressed by winning, not by big numbers.
I think that Newton will turn out better than VY eventually....but there are still no guarantees.
On Couch, I think his "career path" was initially derailed by such a god awful team around him....by some idiocy by the HCs of the Browns, and eventually by injury.
People talk about how the Browns should have taken McNabb. I don't think McNabb could have done any better here at all than Couch did. If the drafting had been the other way around, it may have been TC that took the Eagles to multiple championship games.
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You're stupid then. Randy Moss only garnered a 4th rd pick, you want to give a 1st for Wallace, you are crazy. Absolute highest I would even consider is a 3rd pick and even then I would be hesitant.
Are you a real person? or a ridiculous alter ego? Randy Moss garnered a 4th round pick on the back end of his career when the Patriots MASTERS of taking every last ounce out of their players let him walk. He then proceeded to do absolutely NOTHING. I'd give up Wallace for 4th overall in a heart beat BUT I'd be sad to see Wallace go because he's quickly becoming an elite option.
Homotron said:
Are you a real person? or a ridiculous alter ego? Randy Moss garnered a 4th round pick on the back end of his career when the Patriots MASTERS of taking every last ounce out of their players let him walk. He then proceeded to do absolutely NOTHING. I'd give up Wallace for 4th overall in a heart beat BUT I'd be sad to see Wallace go because he's quickly becoming an elite option.
Actually, when the Patriots got Moss from the Raiders, all they gave up was a 4th, and that was before his record setting 2007. I think character issues played a role in the low valuation at the time, and Wallace would likely garner more than that. I'd give up the 22 or the 2nd rounder, considering he is still young.
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you got some things mixxed up man....
first, for the raiders to get moss? the 7th overall and napoleon harris, in march of '05. the pats gave up a 4th rounder to acquire moss in '07 (not before his record setting '07 season). moss produced little in oakland due to injuries and a bad attitude.....so how does a player go from very high net worth to garbage over the course of 2 years?
small note. the 22nd is not up for trade of a RFA. it has to be our pick...the 4th.
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Not even in "Steeler Fantasy Land" is Mike Wallace worth a fourth overall draft pick...
Keep dreaming... and kill this thread... oops, I just kicked a dead horse... dammit!
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