Ask A Baylor Fan About Rg3
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1.) Let me give you the back story here. Briles ( Baylor HC ) is legendary for how slowly he brings along QBs. In Griffin's freshman season, he was literally reading 2 guys on half the field before a delayed run action w/ the line would develop, and he would take off. Read 1 -> Read 2 -> run. That was it, EVERY play. In 09 he had the knee injury. In 2010, Briles opened it up somewhat by calling basically "two plays in one", two reads to one side, two reads to the other side, run. Briles emphasizes "decision making" with QBs before he really opens up his offense. It was not until the second half of this past season that Briles "opened up" the playbook for throwing into windows prior to a receiver being open. A lot of this has to do w/ play design . . . Briles LOVES to go vertical on the rails, so there isn't much anticipation in unleashing the bomb ( and there isn't any QB in college history that has experience throwing into the Cover-2 hole at 15-17 yards anyways ). Between the numbers, Briles relies on crossing actions typically 2~3 yards in front AND behind the second level deployment line ( lots of zone in the Big-XII ). Griffin shows quality anticipation in throwing into these windows, particularly the last half of this season. However, the play design is different from the NFL, and he doesn't have a ton of experience in it.
As to throwing guys open, on "The Play" ( as Baylor fans will call it 30 years from now, the winning pass against OU ), he threw open Terrance Williams, allowing him to use his speed to create separation towards the corner of the endzone.
2.) His freshman season he spent the majority of time under center, as Briles likes to use what can only be described as a "square dance" of run action calls . . . double pulls, traps 2 gaps over, he's a bit of a nutjob. As the line talent progressed, I'd say 80% shotgun and 20% under center, excluding goal-line sets. Of those under center plays, you are looking at 50 / 50 run-pass ratio ( Briles loves ghost action from the short side to the wide side ). Griffin handles the ball very well on initial drop back, in my opinion.
Griffin's footwork on "initialization" is quite good. Where he gets into trouble, footwork wise, is once pressure forces him to move. He still has "track feet" once he moves, as every leg action puts him into position to take off. He's much better than the was, but he must develop "QB feet", where ever movement IMMEDIATELY puts you back into position to rotate and release. At this time, once he starts moving, he typically has to slow down and reset his lower half, unless he's on a sprint out to the right.
Excellent post.
Now can you give your view regarding Browns fans believing its better to keep the #4 + #22 picks to build around Colt McCoy versus trading them for #2 to get RGIII. Given you're a Baylor fans I sense you've seen Colt in college and the pros.
Excellent post.
Now can you give your view regarding Browns fans believing its better to keep the #4 + #22 picks to build around Colt McCoy versus trading them for #2 to get RGIII. Given you're a Baylor fans I sense you've seen Colt in college and the pros.
I have seen plenty of Colt in both college and the pros. I can give a comparison between the two if asked.
No, I won't pass judgement on fans that desire to keep the 4 and the 22. I am not intimately familiar w/ the Browns roster in the way I am Big XII schools / NFC East / East Texas high schools ( yeah its a cliche, but yes I drive out into small town East Texas most Friday Nights in the fall to see games ). Thus, it would be inappropriate of me to disagree with someone that has far more knowledge than I do of the situation.
I will say this: if Griffin isn't on the team last season, Baylor wins 5 games. RGIII literally doubled our win total. TCU / Kansas / UT / OU / Washington are all games we lose if our backup, who is a good college QB, is in the game.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
Even if RG3 crashes and burns, the sports world will be tuned in to Cleveland again. THAT ALONE is worth drafting him.
If this isn't promoting a losing culture I don't know what is. We already went through that media crap with Brady Quinn. And everyone knows how that turned out..
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
Even if RG3 crashes and burns, the sports world will be tuned in to Cleveland again. THAT ALONE is worth drafting him.
If this isn't promoting a losing culture I don't know what is. We already went through that media crap with Brady Quinn. And everyone knows how that turned out..
If this isn't promoting a losing culture I don't know what is. We already went through that media crap with Brady Quinn. And everyone knows how that turned out..
As much as I love Griffin, this is correct.
Well managed teams recognize that the media only shines on winners in football; as Seinfeld says, we're really just rooting for laundry.
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Excellent post.
Now can you give your view regarding Browns fans believing its better to keep the #4 + #22 picks to build around Colt McCoy versus trading them for #2 to get RGIII. Given you're a Baylor fans I sense you've seen Colt in college and the pros.
I have seen plenty of Colt in both college and the pros. I can give a comparison between the two if asked.
No, I won't pass judgement on fans that desire to keep the 4 and the 22. I am not intimately familiar w/ the Browns roster in the way I am Big XII schools / NFC East / East Texas high schools ( yeah its a cliche, but yes I drive out into small town East Texas most Friday Nights in the fall to see games ). Thus, it would be inappropriate of me to disagree with someone that has far more knowledge than I do of the situation.
I will say this: if Griffin isn't on the team last season, Baylor wins 5 games. RGIII literally doubled our win total. TCU / Kansas / UT / OU / Washington are all games we lose if our backup, who is a good college QB, is in the game.
No, I won't pass judgement on fans that desire to keep the 4 and the 22.
dont mind him.....he showed up a couple days ago, waving his pom poms, posting highlight reels, and kneeling at the alter of griffin with nothing more than subjective opinion based on little else but the prevailing opinion at BSPN.
ive not seen anyone ride a players cock like this since shep went bananas over the pickle.
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Excellent post.
Now can you give your view regarding Browns fans believing its better to keep the #4 + #22 picks to build around Colt McCoy versus trading them for #2 to get RGIII. Given you're a Baylor fans I sense you've seen Colt in college and the pros.
I have seen plenty of Colt in both college and the pros. I can give a comparison between the two if asked.
No, I won't pass judgement on fans that desire to keep the 4 and the 22. I am not intimately familiar w/ the Browns roster in the way I am Big XII schools / NFC East / East Texas high schools ( yeah its a cliche, but yes I drive out into small town East Texas most Friday Nights in the fall to see games ). Thus, it would be inappropriate of me to disagree with someone that has far more knowledge than I do of the situation.
I will say this: if Griffin isn't on the team last season, Baylor wins 5 games. RGIII literally doubled our win total. TCU / Kansas / UT / OU / Washington are all games we lose if our backup, who is a good college QB, is in the game.
I have seen plenty of Colt in both college and the pros. I can give a comparison between the two if asked.
No, I won't pass judgement on fans that desire to keep the 4 and the 22. I am not intimately familiar w/ the Browns roster in the way I am Big XII schools / NFC East / East Texas high schools ( yeah its a cliche, but yes I drive out into small town East Texas most Friday Nights in the fall to see games ). Thus, it would be inappropriate of me to disagree with someone that has far more knowledge than I do of the situation.
As you can see from the interceding posts, we have plenty of judgment passers, so thanks for not joining that crowd.
Really well thought out posts so far, displaying more than a smattering knowledge of football, so please do post your McCoy/ RG comparison, but first...
Please explain how you came to be both a Browns and a Cowboys fan. I ask this as a member of your age group who grew up believing this to be an impossibility...
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Excellent post.
Now can you give your view regarding Browns fans believing its better to keep the #4 + #22 picks to build around Colt McCoy versus trading them for #2 to get RGIII. Given you're a Baylor fans I sense you've seen Colt in college and the pros.
I have seen plenty of Colt in both college and the pros. I can give a comparison between the two if asked.
No, I won't pass judgement on fans that desire to keep the 4 and the 22. I am not intimately familiar w/ the Browns roster in the way I am Big XII schools / NFC East / East Texas high schools ( yeah its a cliche, but yes I drive out into small town East Texas most Friday Nights in the fall to see games ). Thus, it would be inappropriate of me to disagree with someone that has far more knowledge than I do of the situation.
I will say this: if Griffin isn't on the team last season, Baylor wins 5 games. RGIII literally doubled our win total. TCU / Kansas / UT / OU / Washington are all games we lose if our backup, who is a good college QB, is in the game.
if Griffin isn't on the team last season, Baylor wins 5 games. RGIII literally doubled our win total. TCU / Kansas / UT / OU / Washington are all games we lose if our backup, who is a good college QB, is in the game.
boy, that's some stiff competition there. i'm glad all it took was one player to beat up those tomato cans.
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Excellent post.
Now can you give your view regarding Browns fans believing its better to keep the #4 + #22 picks to build around Colt McCoy versus trading them for #2 to get RGIII. Given you're a Baylor fans I sense you've seen Colt in college and the pros.
I have seen plenty of Colt in both college and the pros. I can give a comparison between the two if asked.
No, I won't pass judgement on fans that desire to keep the 4 and the 22. I am not intimately familiar w/ the Browns roster in the way I am Big XII schools / NFC East / East Texas high schools ( yeah its a cliche, but yes I drive out into small town East Texas most Friday Nights in the fall to see games ). Thus, it would be inappropriate of me to disagree with someone that has far more knowledge than I do of the situation.
I will say this: if Griffin isn't on the team last season, Baylor wins 5 games. RGIII literally doubled our win total. TCU / Kansas / UT / OU / Washington are all games we lose if our backup, who is a good college QB, is in the game.
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if Griffin isn't on the team last season, Baylor wins 5 games. RGIII literally doubled our win total. TCU / Kansas / UT / OU / Washington are all games we lose if our backup, who is a good college QB, is in the game.
boy, that's some stiff competition there. i'm glad all it took was one player to beat up those tomato cans.
boy, that's some stiff competition there. i'm glad all it took was one player to beat up those tomato cans.
Kansas does indeed lick chode, no arguments there. None of those teams were elite, you will get no argument from me. However, the fact remains that without Griffin Baylor wins 5 games.
Baylor is rising from 15 years of oblivion from a talent standpoint. Honestly, our 3 first round draft picks the last few years are the rarity . . . these are individual players that don't begin to describe the derth of talent on the roster at most spots. It is improving, but its no where near what schools like OSU or Mizzou have, to say nothing of OU and UT.
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I have seen plenty of Colt in both college and the pros. I can give a comparison between the two if asked.
No, I won't pass judgement on fans that desire to keep the 4 and the 22. I am not intimately familiar w/ the Browns roster in the way I am Big XII schools / NFC East / East Texas high schools ( yeah its a cliche, but yes I drive out into small town East Texas most Friday Nights in the fall to see games ). Thus, it would be inappropriate of me to disagree with someone that has far more knowledge than I do of the situation.
As you can see from the interceding posts, we have plenty of judgment passers, so thanks for not joining that crowd.
Really well thought out posts so far, displaying more than a smattering knowledge of football, so please do post your McCoy/ RG comparison, but first...
Please explain how you came to be both a Browns and a Cowboys fan. I ask this as a member of your age group who grew up believing this to be an impossibility...
Please explain how you came to be both a Browns and a Cowboys fan. I ask this as a member of your age group who grew up believing this to be an impossibility...
One of my grandfathers emigrated from Cleveland to Texas after he returned from WWII and married my Baylor grandmother.
The Cowboys wouldn't come into existence until 1960, and it would be another 5~7 years until people in Texas paid more attention to the Cowboys than the Southwest Conference.
The Rangers wouldn't move from D.C. to Dallas until 1972.
As a result, my grandfather STILL roots for Cleveland teams first, and my dad grew up in his household . . . it wasn't until he was a teenager that he began to replace Cleveland with Dallas teams.
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DFWBear:
let me ask you this from someone who brings a different perspective than most of these guys that are just in love with RG3 for no other reason than his big smile and his cute dreads:
from a standpoint of building a team within a time line of say three years...... and if you look at the browns and their talent level right now with the roster they have and you realize you've got tons of holes to fill i.e. !) another cover CB 2) another DE 3) at least another WR 4) at least another LB 5) a RT 6) a speed RB. so right there that's 6-8 picks we need.
would you trade one of your picks to move up to get a QB or trade down, get another pick, and complete an already competent (but not dominate) defense, add some weapons at WR and RB and fix a problem on the right side of the OL?
another question: do you think 2 years is enough time to evaluate a rookie QB with no right side protection, no running game, wide receivers who can't get open and when they do drop the ball, injuries, a new coach and a new system in one of the toughest divisions in football?
do you think RG3 is a "once in a lifetime talent that we have to do anything we can to draft him?" (as i pointed out to the RG3 ball tuggers yesterday is that in my lifetime i've seen marino, kelly, elway, brees, rodgers, favre, brady, newton etc. etc. etc. drafted. i guess all of them were once in a lifetime too, if you're a flippin bee).
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Thanks for dropping by with your perspective.
I would really like to hear what you have to say when comparing the two quarterbacks.
The easiest thing to do is to start with Colt. Please note, all relative adjectives are used in the NFL context. Also, since this is long, I'm going to break it into two posts.
Colt is a very hardworking kid with decent talent, though his leadership skills are questionable due to the amount of sheltering he got at UT. At Texas, he was originally the third man on the roster, but he was such a "gamer" that he was able to fight against Texas' bad coaching to take the mantle. Colt is a good decision maker ( we'll get to this in a second ), though he takes his time with it. Due to the amount of work he puts in, he has very good mechanics for a player of his caliber. His arm slot rarely deviates, his legs are typically in unison w/ his torso on rotate, he has an average release, he has slightly below average arm strength. Defensive speed in the NFL has negated what made him special at Texas, which was the threat a scramble put on 2nd level zone players. He has good pocket awareness, and shows a very good ability to shift in the pocket to provide blocking angles for his OL to reengage ( there are't a lot of guys that do this, including Rogers ). What has impressed me the most about Colt is that he was able, for the most part, to shake off the "track feet" he had to develop as a necessity at Texas due to their HORRENDOUS play calling. I say this as a Football Fan and not a Baylor Fan; the coaching one gets at Texas is a hindrance to NFL performance, at all positions except secondary.
Colt's biggest problem though is a monster. QB coaches refer to Colt as someone who is "bicycling". Each "decision" a QB makes from the moment the ball is snapped is often referred to as a "cycle", and QBs practice each component of the cycle relentlessly. How to turn your head, whom to identify first, where your feet should be, hip placement for fast rotate, ball placement prior to the throw, on and on and on. Colt's fundamental issue is that while he makes good decisions PER CYCLE, he has never demonstrated an ability to "string together" a series of cycles to form a coherent mental image of the play at hand. In essence, when Colt drops back, he goes through his progressions until the play breaks down. He does not have the ability to hit his first cycle, connect it to what he saw pre-snap, then skip his normal 2nd cycle to hit the third option 2 seconds into the play.
This is a point of huge disagreement between coaches and personnel guys. Personnel guys see a quality decision maker and think that good coaches should be able to "get him off the bike". Coaches tend to believe that such ability is innate, and that while you can coach the decision process per cycle, you can't coach them to string it all together. The reason this is so important is that without the ability to understand the entire play at hand, a quarterback can never do the Ph.D. level work of looking off safeties, skipping covered hot routes to hit the backside, or making high quality audibles at the line.
This was never an issue at Texas due to their talent. When you have a lot of guys winning one on one matchups, eventually your cycles are going to lead you to someone that is open. When you lack talent, it becomes a huge issue. I do believe that the Browns could make the playoffs with Colt, but I am dubious that you could ever win a SuperBowl with him unless you had 2 or 3 All-Pro quality skill position guys.
If you're looking for guys that got off the bicycle, the best example is Troy Aikmen. If you're looking for guys that had it all but never could get off the bicycle, that's McNabb ( though he did have some technical issues that consistently plagued him throughout his career ).
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
He will NOT become the next Otto Graham. YOu already have Otto Graham in Colt McCoy.
Otto was smalish, didn't have much of an arm, AND played at a time when microsecond anticipation wasn't required. It was a much slower game.
Putting RG3 back into those days would be like taking a top 10 mens tennis player and having him play against women.
Otto never had physical skills anywhere close to RG3. Nowhere close.
Now, do we want RG3 to come here and have Otto-like success? Of course we do, but we don't want him to be a reincarnation of Otto. If that happened we would again need to draft a QB in 2013.
Bottom line? The Browns don't have a QB. Wallace is the best we have and he is a fine back up, he is capable of 8 - 8. Colt on the other hand is shit...... pure shit.
RG3 is available and the Browns need to sell moms pussy if that's what it takes to bring some excitement to CBS.
Even if RG3 crashes and burns, the sports world will be tuned in to Cleveland again. THAT ALONE is worth drafting him.
I think if OG were playing today he would be one of the best QBs in the game no doubt, because he was a leader and a winner. How about if I said "the next Joe Montana"? You could make the same argument about Joe Cool that you could make about OG. Those two were about the same height as RGIII, though RG has a little more muscle mass...though I suspect that if OG had to he could have put on the muscle that RG has through today's weight training programs.
Just having physical skills doesn't make you the best QB. Just an example from history: Mike Phipps had far more physical skills than Brian Sipe. Sipe was the better QB. Jamarcus Russell's physical skills earned him the #1 overall selection in the draft. OOOPS!
That said, I am all in favor of picking up RGIII...with our #4 pick.
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boy, that's some stiff competition there. i'm glad all it took was one player to beat up those tomato cans.
Kansas does indeed lick chode, no arguments there. None of those teams were elite, you will get no argument from me. However, the fact remains that without Griffin Baylor wins 5 games.
Baylor is rising from 15 years of oblivion from a talent standpoint. Honestly, our 3 first round draft picks the last few years are the rarity . . . these are individual players that don't begin to describe the derth of talent on the roster at most spots. It is improving, but its no where near what schools like OSU or Mizzou have, to say nothing of OU and UT.
Kansas does indeed lick chode, no arguments there. None of those teams were elite, you will get no argument from me. However, the fact remains that without Griffin Baylor wins 5 games.
Baylor is rising from 15 years of oblivion from a talent standpoint. Honestly, our 3 first round draft picks the last few years are the rarity . . . these are individual players that don't begin to describe the derth of talent on the roster at most spots. It is improving, but its no where near what schools like OSU or Mizzou have, to say nothing of OU and UT.
I wouldn't mind if the Browns drafted 2 Baylor Bears in the first round this year: RG at #4,and Kendell Williams at #22....to go along with Phil Taylor last year.
If that happens, no wonder a Baylor boy like you would follow the Browns.
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Maybe OG was one of the best ever at riding that bike that DFW talks about.
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Thanks for dropping by with your perspective.
I would really like to hear what you have to say when comparing the two quarterbacks.
Yay, the server is back. RGIII time ( and forgive me for rambling; asking me for a RGIII breakdown is like asking an old Browns fan to talk about Jim Brown, though I will be as honest as I can
From a 30 000 foot overview, I would encourage people to not be lazy and assume the Vick / Newton comparisons. If you are looking for a comp, the best one, BY FAR, is Steve Young ( from a prospect point of view, as well as a skill set ). For the lulz, his nickname on the team was "3000" because he looks so much like Andre 3000.
Griffin will measure a hair below 6'2'' ( say 6' 7/8'' ), and in the 220 range. When at his track weight of 185, Griffin was clocked at 18 at under 10.1 in the 100, and "track measured" ( meaning timed, not the crap football coaches use with their thumbs ) of 4.38 in the 40. The additional 35 lbs is all muscle, and he his frame will support another 10 MAYBE 15 lbs. At his current weight, I expect him to run in the mid 4.4 range.
Griffin is an extremely hard working kid that has worked tirelessly on this throwing motion and footwork. Prior to his ACL injury, he was splitting time between track and football. The injury changed that, and his sole focus became football. He has excellent vision, a fast release, and a strong arm ( though it is not rocket launcher strong like Brady or Cutler ). Griffin has had to work a lot at "training himself out" of his athleticism. In 2008, he made the most ridiculous throw I've ever see in my life as an 18 year old against Washington State: moving to his right, he "jumped" off of one foot, whipped his body around, and threw a laser pass 55 yards down field from the opposite hash to the back pylon, dropping it between 2 defenders. As a result of his athleticism, he can get impatient in his technique, instead preferring to rely on his athleticism. It is a constant battle. His arm slot has improved, but he does have a tendency to drop out of it on quick strikes. He lacks touch on his short range throws . . . they are either too hard or too soft. His footwork has dramatically improved, but he still suffers from "track feet" I've already mentioned; once he starts to move in the pocket, his footwork breaks down. He is a ghost behind the lines, very difficult to bring down unless you have a clean shot. He has a quick release. He has extremely fluid hips ( he would make a great safety ), but is still raw in his rotation, which leads to overthrows on occasion. From a mental standpoint, the kid really is that freaking smart. He won't be dropping a 10 on the wonderlic. Sees the "whole field", and began to show ( particularly in the Texas game ) an ability to move linebackers with his shoulders and head. From a leadership standpoint, he does rub his teammates the wrong way sometimes, though personnel guys will tell you most elite QBs have this quality . . . a, "I'm that fucking good" confidence that isn't fake. He's also tough ( played another 10 minutes in a half after he had torn his ACL ). He does have a little showboat in him, particularly when he takes hits, he lays on the ground maybe 1 second longer than I would like. Not injury prone at all, outside the ACL tear.
His biggest asset is his accuracy on mid - long range throws. He doesn't just hit the strike zone, he paints the black.
If you are looking for a range, I would say his ceiling is an overpowered Steve Young . . . a little faster, a little more athletic, a little smarter, a little better arm. Unless he gets injured, his floor is probably a poor man's Randall Cunningham.
Finally, from just a personal belief, I really believe, as a football fan, that unless he gets injured he will be a top 15 QB in the league at a minimum; the man just works too hard, and is too competitive, for him to ever satisfied with anything less.
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Thanks for dropping by with your perspective.
I would really like to hear what you have to say when comparing the two quarterbacks.
Yay, the server is back. RGIII time ( and forgive me for rambling; asking me for a RGIII breakdown is like asking an old Browns fan to talk about Jim Brown, though I will be as honest as I can
From a 30 000 foot overview, I would encourage people to not be lazy and assume the Vick / Newton comparisons. If you are looking for a comp, the best one, BY FAR, is Steve Young ( from a prospect point of view, as well as a skill set ). For the lulz, his nickname on the team was "3000" because he looks so much like Andre 3000.
Griffin will measure a hair below 6'2'' ( say 6' 7/8'' ), and in the 220 range. When at his track weight of 185, Griffin was clocked at 18 at under 10.1 in the 100, and "track measured" ( meaning timed, not the crap football coaches use with their thumbs ) of 4.38 in the 40. The additional 35 lbs is all muscle, and he his frame will support another 10 MAYBE 15 lbs. At his current weight, I expect him to run in the mid 4.4 range.
Griffin is an extremely hard working kid that has worked tirelessly on this throwing motion and footwork. Prior to his ACL injury, he was splitting time between track and football. The injury changed that, and his sole focus became football. He has excellent vision, a fast release, and a strong arm ( though it is not rocket launcher strong like Brady or Cutler ). Griffin has had to work a lot at "training himself out" of his athleticism. In 2008, he made the most ridiculous throw I've ever see in my life as an 18 year old against Washington State: moving to his right, he "jumped" off of one foot, whipped his body around, and threw a laser pass 55 yards down field from the opposite hash to the back pylon, dropping it between 2 defenders. As a result of his athleticism, he can get impatient in his technique, instead preferring to rely on his athleticism. It is a constant battle. His arm slot has improved, but he does have a tendency to drop out of it on quick strikes. He lacks touch on his short range throws . . . they are either too hard or too soft. His footwork has dramatically improved, but he still suffers from "track feet" I've already mentioned; once he starts to move in the pocket, his footwork breaks down. He is a ghost behind the lines, very difficult to bring down unless you have a clean shot. He has a quick release. He has extremely fluid hips ( he would make a great safety ), but is still raw in his rotation, which leads to overthrows on occasion. From a mental standpoint, the kid really is that freaking smart. He won't be dropping a 10 on the wonderlic. Sees the "whole field", and began to show ( particularly in the Texas game ) an ability to move linebackers with his shoulders and head. From a leadership standpoint, he does rub his teammates the wrong way sometimes, though personnel guys will tell you most elite QBs have this quality . . . a, "I'm that fucking good" confidence that isn't fake. He's also tough ( played another 10 minutes in a half after he had torn his ACL ). He does have a little showboat in him, particularly when he takes hits, he lays on the ground maybe 1 second longer than I would like. Not injury prone at all, outside the ACL tear.
His biggest asset is his accuracy on mid - long range throws. He doesn't just hit the strike zone, he paints the black.
If you are looking for a range, I would say his ceiling is an overpowered Steve Young . . . a little faster, a little more athletic, a little smarter, a little better arm. Unless he gets injured, his floor is probably a poor man's Randall Cunningham.
Finally, from just a personal belief, I really believe, as a football fan, that unless he gets injured he will be a top 15 QB in the league at a minimum; the man just works too hard, and is too competitive, for him to ever satisfied with anything less.
Finally, from just a personal belief, I really believe, as a football fan, that unless he gets injured he will be a top 15 QB in the league at a minimum; the man just works too hard, and is too competitive, for him to ever satisfied with anything less.
well if that all he is within 2 years we'll have to cut him.
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DFWBear:
let me ask you this from someone who brings a different perspective than most of these guys that are just in love with RG3 for no other reason than his big smile and his cute dreads:
from a standpoint of building a team within a time line of say three years...... and if you look at the browns and their talent level right now with the roster they have and you realize you've got tons of holes to fill i.e. !) another cover CB 2) another DE 3) at least another WR 4) at least another LB 5) a RT 6) a speed RB. so right there that's 6-8 picks we need.
would you trade one of your picks to move up to get a QB or trade down, get another pick, and complete an already competent (but not dominate) defense, add some weapons at WR and RB and fix a problem on the right side of the OL?
another question: do you think 2 years is enough time to evaluate a rookie QB with no right side protection, no running game, wide receivers who can't get open and when they do drop the ball, injuries, a new coach and a new system in one of the toughest divisions in football?
do you think RG3 is a "once in a lifetime talent that we have to do anything we can to draft him?" (as i pointed out to the RG3 ball tuggers yesterday is that in my lifetime i've seen marino, kelly, elway, brees, rodgers, favre, brady, newton etc. etc. etc. drafted. i guess all of them were once in a lifetime too, if you're a flippin bee).
DFWBear:
let me ask you this from someone who brings a different perspective than most of these guys that are just in love with RG3 for no other reason than his big smile and his cute dreads:
from a standpoint of building a team within a time line of say three years...... and if you look at the browns and their talent level right now with the roster they have and you realize you've got tons of holes to fill i.e. !) another cover CB 2) another DE 3) at least another WR 4) at least another LB 5) a RT 6) a speed RB. so right there that's 6-8 picks we need.
would you trade one of your picks to move up to get a QB or trade down, get another pick, and complete an already competent (but not dominate) defense, add some weapons at WR and RB and fix a problem on the right side of the OL?
another question: do you think 2 years is enough time to evaluate a rookie QB with no right side protection, no running game, wide receivers who can't get open and when they do drop the ball, injuries, a new coach and a new system in one of the toughest divisions in football?
do you think RG3 is a "once in a lifetime talent that we have to do anything we can to draft him?" (as i pointed out to the RG3 ball tuggers yesterday is that in my lifetime i've seen marino, kelly, elway, brees, rodgers, favre, brady, newton etc. etc. etc. drafted. i guess all of them were once in a lifetime too, if you're a flippin bee).
I know this wasn't intended for me. But I wanted to address that each of the quarterbacks you mentioned had significant shortcomings entering the draft - save Elway. None (again, save Elway) was a transcendent talent. They were all outstanding college quarterbacks that managed to put it together at the pro level.
Marino was just a guy, Kelly - same way. The rest of them were too short, too slow, too skinny, system quarterbacks, or too undisciplined to be "can't miss.". And they didn't miss.
Without hindsight, only Elway was a whatever it takes to draft him kind of guy. The rest were guys that had the brains and heart... And enough of all of the physical traits to make it work.
What I'm talking about with RGIII is a collection of talents in one guy you've never seen before... And based on history, aren't likely to see again any time soon.
-jj
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DFWBear:
let me ask you this from someone who brings a different perspective than most of these guys that are just in love with RG3 for no other reason than his big smile and his cute dreads:
from a standpoint of building a team within a time line of say three years...... and if you look at the browns and their talent level right now with the roster they have and you realize you've got tons of holes to fill i.e. !) another cover CB 2) another DE 3) at least another WR 4) at least another LB 5) a RT 6) a speed RB. so right there that's 6-8 picks we need.
would you trade one of your picks to move up to get a QB or trade down, get another pick, and complete an already competent (but not dominate) defense, add some weapons at WR and RB and fix a problem on the right side of the OL?
another question: do you think 2 years is enough time to evaluate a rookie QB with no right side protection, no running game, wide receivers who can't get open and when they do drop the ball, injuries, a new coach and a new system in one of the toughest divisions in football?
do you think RG3 is a "once in a lifetime talent that we have to do anything we can to draft him?" (as i pointed out to the RG3 ball tuggers yesterday is that in my lifetime i've seen marino, kelly, elway, brees, rodgers, favre, brady, newton etc. etc. etc. drafted. i guess all of them were once in a lifetime too, if you're a flippin bee).
DFWBear:
let me ask you this from someone who brings a different perspective than most of these guys that are just in love with RG3 for no other reason than his big smile and his cute dreads:
from a standpoint of building a team within a time line of say three years...... and if you look at the browns and their talent level right now with the roster they have and you realize you've got tons of holes to fill i.e. !) another cover CB 2) another DE 3) at least another WR 4) at least another LB 5) a RT 6) a speed RB. so right there that's 6-8 picks we need.
would you trade one of your picks to move up to get a QB or trade down, get another pick, and complete an already competent (but not dominate) defense, add some weapons at WR and RB and fix a problem on the right side of the OL?
another question: do you think 2 years is enough time to evaluate a rookie QB with no right side protection, no running game, wide receivers who can't get open and when they do drop the ball, injuries, a new coach and a new system in one of the toughest divisions in football?
do you think RG3 is a "once in a lifetime talent that we have to do anything we can to draft him?" (as i pointed out to the RG3 ball tuggers yesterday is that in my lifetime i've seen marino, kelly, elway, brees, rodgers, favre, brady, newton etc. etc. etc. drafted. i guess all of them were once in a lifetime too, if you're a flippin bee).
I can recall only 5 quarterbacks in the modern era that were considered "locks": King Hill in 58 out of Rice, Bradshaw in 70, Elway in 83, Manning in 98, Vick in 2000. All but Vick cleared that bar. No, I would not place Griffin in that group. If anyone is curious, yes, I would put Luck in that group.
Yes, I think 2 years is enough given the player that Colt is.
Finally, in today's NFL an elite QB is breathing room. The Giants had subpar running backs, merely above average WRs, average linebackers, and the worst secondary in the league. They just won the Super Bowl. Conversely, look at Baltimore ( I know you guys see them constantly ). Quality receivers, good line play, dominant defense, consistent running game, and haven't made it back to the Super Bowl since they've won because of the QB play. Without an elite QB, your margin is so slim it is borderline impossible to win a Super Bowl.
-
DFWBear:
let me ask you this from someone who brings a different perspective than most of these guys that are just in love with RG3 for no other reason than his big smile and his cute dreads:
from a standpoint of building a team within a time line of say three years...... and if you look at the browns and their talent level right now with the roster they have and you realize you've got tons of holes to fill i.e. !) another cover CB 2) another DE 3) at least another WR 4) at least another LB 5) a RT 6) a speed RB. so right there that's 6-8 picks we need.
would you trade one of your picks to move up to get a QB or trade down, get another pick, and complete an already competent (but not dominate) defense, add some weapons at WR and RB and fix a problem on the right side of the OL?
another question: do you think 2 years is enough time to evaluate a rookie QB with no right side protection, no running game, wide receivers who can't get open and when they do drop the ball, injuries, a new coach and a new system in one of the toughest divisions in football?
do you think RG3 is a "once in a lifetime talent that we have to do anything we can to draft him?" (as i pointed out to the RG3 ball tuggers yesterday is that in my lifetime i've seen marino, kelly, elway, brees, rodgers, favre, brady, newton etc. etc. etc. drafted. i guess all of them were once in a lifetime too, if you're a flippin bee).
I know this wasn't intended for me. But I wanted to address that each of the quarterbacks you mentioned had significant shortcomings entering the draft - save Elway. None (again, save Elway) was a transcendent talent. They were all outstanding college quarterbacks that managed to put it together at the pro level.
Marino was just a guy, Kelly - same way. The rest of them were too short, too slow, too skinny, system quarterbacks, or too undisciplined to be "can't miss.". And they didn't miss.
Without hindsight, only Elway was a whatever it takes to draft him kind of guy. The rest were guys that had the brains and heart... And enough of all of the physical traits to make it work.
What I'm talking about with RGIII is a collection of talents in one guy you've never seen before... And based on history, aren't likely to see again any time soon.
-jj
What I'm talking about with RGIII is a collection of talents in one guy you've never seen before... And based on history, aren't likely to see again any time soon.
-jj
so if that's the case why is andrew luck projected to go #1. so he must be from planet krypton?
you RG3 guys are all the same: his skillset blah blah blah, his accuracy blah blah blah.
i guarantee you if we don't draft him and play mccoy and we address the other needs on the team including WR and RB and RT he will look 100% better.
if we address said needs AND draft RG3 and he starts, it will all be because RG3 is soooo much better.
:lol: -
DFWBear:
let me ask you this from someone who brings a different perspective than most of these guys that are just in love with RG3 for no other reason than his big smile and his cute dreads:
from a standpoint of building a team within a time line of say three years...... and if you look at the browns and their talent level right now with the roster they have and you realize you've got tons of holes to fill i.e. !) another cover CB 2) another DE 3) at least another WR 4) at least another LB 5) a RT 6) a speed RB. so right there that's 6-8 picks we need.
would you trade one of your picks to move up to get a QB or trade down, get another pick, and complete an already competent (but not dominate) defense, add some weapons at WR and RB and fix a problem on the right side of the OL?
another question: do you think 2 years is enough time to evaluate a rookie QB with no right side protection, no running game, wide receivers who can't get open and when they do drop the ball, injuries, a new coach and a new system in one of the toughest divisions in football?
do you think RG3 is a "once in a lifetime talent that we have to do anything we can to draft him?" (as i pointed out to the RG3 ball tuggers yesterday is that in my lifetime i've seen marino, kelly, elway, brees, rodgers, favre, brady, newton etc. etc. etc. drafted. i guess all of them were once in a lifetime too, if you're a flippin bee).
I can recall only 5 quarterbacks in the modern era that were considered "locks": King Hill in 58 out of Rice, Bradshaw in 70, Elway in 83, Manning in 98, Vick in 2000. All but Vick cleared that bar. No, I would not place Griffin in that group. If anyone is curious, yes, I would put Luck in that group.
Yes, I think 2 years is enough given the player that Colt is.
Finally, in today's NFL an elite QB is breathing room. The Giants had subpar running backs, merely above average WRs, average linebackers, and the worst secondary in the league. They just won the Super Bowl. Conversely, look at Baltimore ( I know you guys see them constantly ). Quality receivers, good line play, dominant defense, consistent running game, and haven't made it back to the Super Bowl since they've won because of the QB play. Without an elite QB, your margin is so slim it is borderline impossible to win a Super Bowl.
The Giants had subpar running backs, merely above average WRs, average linebackers, and the worst secondary in the league. They just won the Super Bowl. Conversely, look at Baltimore ( I know you guys see them constantly ). Quality receivers, good line play, dominant defense, consistent running game, and haven't made it back to the Super Bowl since they've won because of the QB play. Without an elite QB, your margin is so slim it is borderline impossible to win a Super Bowl.
maybe when they played the cowboys they looked that way but you are way off base. living in NY and watching every flippin game they played this year: their OL is superior, bradshaw is better than any RB we have, their #4 wide receiver could beat out our number one, their secondary does suck but when you've got 4 DEs flushing you out of the pocket in 2 seconds you don't need a very good secondary. btw they play 2 DEs in LB positions at times.
put colt mccoy on that team and they have at least 10 wins. hell even RG3.
we've got none of that so you can't compare your hey the giants won the super bowl because of great qb play. they won because of defense. period.
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