Ask A Baylor Fan About Rg3
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The defense shows promise but their rankings are misleading. Opposing offenses had no pressure to score high against us because our offense was so horrid. It only took 17 points to beat the Browns so they stayed conservative and ran it down our throats.
If the Browns had anything close to something that resembled a competent NFL offense our pass defense numbers would not be so deceiving.
The Giants and Pats have some pretty big holes on their defense as well.
Ravens and 49ers have pretty solid defenses.
Difference between them?
QUARTERBACK!
The defense shows promise but their rankings are misleading. Opposing offenses had no pressure to score high against us because our offense was so horrid. It only took 17 points to beat the Browns so they stayed conservative and ran it down our throats.
If the Browns had anything close to something that resembled a competent NFL offense our pass defense numbers would not be so deceiving.
The Giants and Pats have some pretty big holes on their defense as well.
Ravens and 49ers have pretty solid defenses.
Difference between them?
QUARTERBACK!
See folks! Here's a fan who actually backs up his viewpoint with some facts. Yes the teams that scored the most points on offense usually surrendered the most passing yards on defense as teams were forced to throw the ball. Teams who had weak offenses like the Browns and Rams for example had the ball run down their throats as evidenced by the fact that opponents averaged the most rushing attempts per game against the lowest scoring teams. Good solid analysis by Bad News Browns.
However, unlike the Rams, Bucs and Colts the Browns defense managed to keep opposing teams out of the end zone. Every team that surrendered fewer points than the Browns made the playoffs. So I think the Browns are definitely closer to turning things around than the Rams, Bucs and Colts because our defense should have been good enough for us to win. Even if we had the Steelers defense which allowed the fewest points (14.2) and YPG we still would have been outscored by our opponents! When our pathetic offense cannot even score 2 TD's a game you have to say that our offense is in a state of crisis. So unless we have a defense that is better than the Steelers defense next season it is imperative that we draft offensive playmakers if we want to win games. I happen to believe RG3 is the biggest playmaker realistically available. We need to get him.
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I just hope if we get RG3 they'll be a little more flexible with the play calling and tailor it to his strengths a bit. From what we seen so far I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't.
I think our crap offense goes deeper than just lack of talent. Hopefully with a full off season and an OC things will be better next year.
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Thanks for those writeups DFW, that is awesome stuff to read for someone who knows little more than what they see on tv about the QB position.
I will say that I am slowly moving from the 'take him if he is there' camp, to the 'trade up for the guy' camp.
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If we really must take a QB, I'd take Brock Osweiler in the late third possibly fourth round range... I haven't seen him in many mocks and I think that he'll do okay as insurance for Colt. I could think of 32 ways to improve our roster without adding RG3 at all. I would prefer to use our early three picks to take players that we could scratch off our needs list next season.
me too. mcshay (and i don't believe in what a lot of draft pundits say) says he has the most upside.
weird delivery, tall and lanky but accurate and manages the game with a great arm.
sounds like a bernie kosar to me.
sounds like a bernie kosar to me.
You mean the guy who we all loved, but consistently failed to win anything significant? Still id take failing big over failing pathetically, like the browns have done recently.
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You mean the guy who we all loved, but consistently failed to win anything significant? Still id take failing big over failing pathetically, like the browns have done recently.
yeah. that guy.
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I think even if we don't make the biggest offer, that we have the best chance to trade with St. Louis. Lets say we offer then value and Washington offers them more than there value, I think we still make the trade. Fact is St. Louis wants either Kalil or Blackmon and at 6th neither will be there, but at 4 one of them still will. RGIII would only cost us our 22nd pick and if they think he can be the guy just pull the trigger.
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If St. Louis wants to trade down with us, they'd still be getting a guy they covet.
I'd give them our 4th and our third rounder this year and a third next year.
But we are both young and trying to build- we can't give them our #22 pick(which will be our WR/LB/DE of the future) or our #37 pick(which I'm hoping is our boy Chase Minnifield).
Take it our leave it but they should not be getting our top picks. We fleeced Atl last year for these picks, we could have used a good WR but we made a decision and we need those picks now. Trading all our extra picks is cutting your nose off to spite your face- to me anyways...
The secret of getting ahead is getting started. The secret of getting started is breaking your complex overwhelming tasks into small manageable tasks, and then starting on the first one. -Mark Twain- "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." -Mark Twain- -
If St. Louis wants to trade down with us, they'd still be getting a guy they covet.
I'd give them our 4th and our third rounder this year and a third next year.
But we are both young and trying to build- we can't give them our #22 pick(which will be our WR/LB/DE of the future) or our #37 pick(which I'm hoping is our boy Chase Minnifield).
Take it our leave it but they should not be getting our top picks. We fleeced Atl last year for these picks, we could have used a good WR but we made a decision and we need those picks now. Trading all our extra picks is cutting your nose off to spite your face- to me anyways...
If St. Louis wants to trade down with us, they'd still be getting a guy they covet.
I'd give them our 4th and our third rounder this year and a third next year.
But we are both young and trying to build- we can't give them our #22 pick(which will be our WR/LB/DE of the future) or our #37 pick(which I'm hoping is our boy Chase Minnifield).
Take it our leave it but they should not be getting our top picks. We fleeced Atl last year for these picks, we could have used a good WR but we made a decision and we need those picks now. Trading all our extra picks is cutting your nose off to spite your face- to me anyways...
They definitely won't make the trade if they don't get value and the trade last year would still be worth it cause it would essentially be trading a good WR for a franchise QB.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
He will NOT become the next Otto Graham. YOu already have Otto Graham in Colt McCoy.
Otto was smalish, didn't have much of an arm, AND played at a time when microsecond anticipation wasn't required. It was a much slower game.
Putting RG3 back into those days would be like taking a top 10 mens tennis player and having him play against women.
Otto never had physical skills anywhere close to RG3. Nowhere close.
Now, do we want RG3 to come here and have Otto-like success? Of course we do, but we don't want him to be a reincarnation of Otto. If that happened we would again need to draft a QB in 2013.
Bottom line? The Browns don't have a QB. Wallace is the best we have and he is a fine back up, he is capable of 8 - 8. Colt on the other hand is shit...... pure shit.
RG3 is available and the Browns need to sell moms pussy if that's what it takes to bring some excitement to CBS.
Even if RG3 crashes and burns, the sports world will be tuned in to Cleveland again. THAT ALONE is worth drafting him.
Greatest reply ever!!!!!!!!
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who exactly are you claiming to be the mom and what's that PUSSY look like? i mean i know there's always of a face of a franchise but what's that old dirty clam looke like or claim to be? probably not get us much and actually cost us more when they want their money back.
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Thanks for dropping by with your perspective.
I would really like to hear what you have to say when comparing the two quarterbacks.
Yay, the server is back. RGIII time ( and forgive me for rambling; asking me for a RGIII breakdown is like asking an old Browns fan to talk about Jim Brown, though I will be as honest as I can
From a 30 000 foot overview, I would encourage people to not be lazy and assume the Vick / Newton comparisons. If you are looking for a comp, the best one, BY FAR, is Steve Young ( from a prospect point of view, as well as a skill set ). For the lulz, his nickname on the team was "3000" because he looks so much like Andre 3000.
Griffin will measure a hair below 6'2'' ( say 6' 7/8'' ), and in the 220 range. When at his track weight of 185, Griffin was clocked at 18 at under 10.1 in the 100, and "track measured" ( meaning timed, not the crap football coaches use with their thumbs ) of 4.38 in the 40. The additional 35 lbs is all muscle, and he his frame will support another 10 MAYBE 15 lbs. At his current weight, I expect him to run in the mid 4.4 range.
Griffin is an extremely hard working kid that has worked tirelessly on this throwing motion and footwork. Prior to his ACL injury, he was splitting time between track and football. The injury changed that, and his sole focus became football. He has excellent vision, a fast release, and a strong arm ( though it is not rocket launcher strong like Brady or Cutler ). Griffin has had to work a lot at "training himself out" of his athleticism. In 2008, he made the most ridiculous throw I've ever see in my life as an 18 year old against Washington State: moving to his right, he "jumped" off of one foot, whipped his body around, and threw a laser pass 55 yards down field from the opposite hash to the back pylon, dropping it between 2 defenders. As a result of his athleticism, he can get impatient in his technique, instead preferring to rely on his athleticism. It is a constant battle. His arm slot has improved, but he does have a tendency to drop out of it on quick strikes. He lacks touch on his short range throws . . . they are either too hard or too soft. His footwork has dramatically improved, but he still suffers from "track feet" I've already mentioned; once he starts to move in the pocket, his footwork breaks down. He is a ghost behind the lines, very difficult to bring down unless you have a clean shot. He has a quick release. He has extremely fluid hips ( he would make a great safety ), but is still raw in his rotation, which leads to overthrows on occasion. From a mental standpoint, the kid really is that freaking smart. He won't be dropping a 10 on the wonderlic. Sees the "whole field", and began to show ( particularly in the Texas game ) an ability to move linebackers with his shoulders and head. From a leadership standpoint, he does rub his teammates the wrong way sometimes, though personnel guys will tell you most elite QBs have this quality . . . a, "I'm that fucking good" confidence that isn't fake. He's also tough ( played another 10 minutes in a half after he had torn his ACL ). He does have a little showboat in him, particularly when he takes hits, he lays on the ground maybe 1 second longer than I would like. Not injury prone at all, outside the ACL tear.
His biggest asset is his accuracy on mid - long range throws. He doesn't just hit the strike zone, he paints the black.
If you are looking for a range, I would say his ceiling is an overpowered Steve Young . . . a little faster, a little more athletic, a little smarter, a little better arm. Unless he gets injured, his floor is probably a poor man's Randall Cunningham.
Finally, from just a personal belief, I really believe, as a football fan, that unless he gets injured he will be a top 15 QB in the league at a minimum; the man just works too hard, and is too competitive, for him to ever satisfied with anything less.
DFWBear,
Again some really good posts... aside from that Cowboys bit
... but have to cut you some slack since I ended up an Oiler/ Texans fan following my '74 move to Houston.I've a few follow-ups to your replies. Hope you are still around to salvage your thread...
Griffin is an extremely hard working kid that has worked tirelessly on this throwing motion and footwork. Prior to his ACL injury...
Griffin has had to work a lot at "training himself out" of his athleticism.
As a result of his athleticism, he can get impatient in his technique, instead preferring to rely on his athleticism. It is a constant battle.
His arm slot has improved, but he does have a tendency to drop out of it on quick strikes. He lacks touch on his short range throws . . . they are either too hard or too soft.
His footwork has dramatically improved, but he still suffers from "track feet" I've already mentioned; once he starts to move in the pocket, his footwork breaks down.
He is a ghost behind the lines, very difficult to bring down unless you have a clean shot. He has a quick release. He has extremely fluid hips ( he would make a great safety ), but is still raw in his rotation, which leads to overthrows on occasion. From a mental standpoint, the kid really is that freaking smart. He won't be dropping a 10 on the wonderlic.
Sees the "whole field", and began to show ( particularly in the Texas game ) an ability to move linebackers with his shoulders and head.
From a leadership standpoint, he does rub his teammates the wrong way sometimes, though personnel guys will tell you most elite QBs have this quality . . . a, "I'm that fucking good" confidence that isn't fake. He's also tough ( played another 10 minutes in a half after he had torn his ACL ). He does have a little showboat in him, particularly when he takes hits, he lays on the ground maybe 1 second longer than I would like. Not injury prone at all, outside the ACL tear.
Two keys in all of this... athleticism and injury... the reasons I am against drafting him high.
From what I have seen, RG reverts to his comfort zone, to what he is, when under stress. And what he is is athletic... so he runs. And in the NFL he is going to be under many times more stress, game in and game out than he was ever under at Baylor.
So what I see is him running, with some success, reinforcing his running while he's told to slide in there pocket hang in there until ultimately he is hurt either running or hanging in there.
In other words I see Michael Vick the 2nd...
Why am I wrong?
And your one example of how he "throws receivers open" doesn't ring true to me. I put that TD pass more in the desperation category. Given no other choice with nothing to lose, most QB's get "braver" and make throws they normally won't.
Finally, from just a personal belief, I really believe, as a football fan, that unless he gets injured he will be a top 15 QB in the league at a minimum; the man just works too hard, and is too competitive, for him to ever satisfied with anything less.
And there it is... two or more 1st round picks for a can't miss top 15 QB...
Step right up for the Magical Mystery Tour.
I can recall only 5 quarterbacks in the modern era that were considered "locks": King Hill in 58 out of Rice, Bradshaw in 70, Elway in 83, Manning in 98, Vick in 2000. All but Vick cleared that bar. No, I would not place Griffin in that group. If anyone is curious, yes, I would put Luck in that group.
Finally, in today's NFL an elite QB is breathing room. The Giants had subpar running backs, merely above average WRs, average linebackers, and the worst secondary in the league. They just won the Super Bowl. Conversely, look at Baltimore ( I know you guys see them constantly ). Quality receivers, good line play, dominant defense, consistent running game, and haven't made it back to the Super Bowl since they've won because of the QB play. Without an elite QB, your margin is so slim it is borderline impossible to win a Super Bowl.`
Never would have thought of King Hill let alone put a QB with a lifetime rating of 49.3 in that group... but that aside...
That Vick was your only miss, and from the above you saw that I see RG as the 2nd coming of Vick, that in a nutshell is my case against RG. A case you seem to build yet deny... why?
See folks! Here's a fan who actually backs up his viewpoint with some facts. Yes the teams that scored the most points on offense usually surrendered the most passing yards on defense as teams were forced to throw the ball. Teams who had weak offenses like the Browns and Rams for example had the ball run down their throats as evidenced by the fact that opponents averaged the most rushing attempts per game against the lowest scoring teams. Good solid analysis by Bad News Browns.
Except for the fact that teams did not run on us or the Rams because of their view of our offense, they ran because they could.
Facts are nice, but coming up with solid conclusions based upon those facts is just as important... and something you are sorely lacking the at least the objectivity, if not the ability, to do.
Oh, and we were 28th in Rushing. I'm sure you have facts to show how that was Colt's fault as well...
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If St. Louis wants to trade down with us, they'd still be getting a guy they covet.
I'd give them our 4th and our third rounder this year and a third next year.
But we are both young and trying to build- we can't give them our #22 pick(which will be our WR/LB/DE of the future) or our #37 pick(which I'm hoping is our boy Chase Minnifield).
Take it our leave it but they should not be getting our top picks. We fleeced Atl last year for these picks, we could have used a good WR but we made a decision and we need those picks now. Trading all our extra picks is cutting your nose off to spite your face- to me anyways...
If St. Louis wants to trade down with us, they'd still be getting a guy they covet.
I'd give them our 4th and our third rounder this year and a third next year.
But we are both young and trying to build- we can't give them our #22 pick(which will be our WR/LB/DE of the future) or our #37 pick(which I'm hoping is our boy Chase Minnifield).
Take it our leave it but they should not be getting our top picks. We fleeced Atl last year for these picks, we could have used a good WR but we made a decision and we need those picks now. Trading all our extra picks is cutting your nose off to spite your face- to me anyways...
I agree. That is the max I would give up. If Washington wants to give up 2#1s a 2 and a 3, let them have him. To me that would mean they are just bidding against themselves.
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