Bountygate May Affect Redskins
-
If in fact the Browns and Redskins do get into some kind of pissing contest over the draft rights to RGIII, it seems possible that the Redskins could lose some ammunition in that fight due to this Bountygate situation. See this from the NY Daily New:
The New Orleans Saints may not be the only NFL team hit by the fallout from BountyGate.
The league investigation will set its sights next on the Washington Redskins, where disgraced defensive coordinator Gregg Williams reportedly ran a pay-for-pain scheme when he coached there from 2004-07. According to a story in The Washington Post, five former players and one former coach confirmed Williams would pay out "thousands" of dollars for big hits - especially if an opponent was knocked out of the game.
NFL: NEW ORLEANS SAINTS HAD BOUNTY FUND
An NFL source confirmed a Washington Post report that the league will investigate those allegations, too.
And the investigation might not end there, because more teams could be involved. Former Indianapolis Colts coach Tony Dungy told ProFootballTalk.com on Friday that he knew the Tennessee Titans once placed bounties on Peyton Manning. Interestingly, Williams was the defensive coordinator in Tennessee from 1997-2000, though Dungy didn't take over the Colts until 2002.
So far, though, the NFL has only specifically mentioned the Saints who are expected to be hit hard after an extensive investigation apparently found evidence that Williams - with the knowledge of head coach Sean Payton and general manager Mickey Loomis - ran an extensive bounty system in New Orleans from 2009-2011. The NFL, in a press release on on Friday, said it reviewed 18,000 documents and 50,000 pages of evidence that 22-27 got bonus money for big plays - including those that injured opponents.
The NFL said Williams' program paid players $1,500 for a "knockout" and $1,000 for a "cart-off" - a hit that left an opponent injured so badly that he had to be carted off the field. The money increased during the playoffs. In fact, according to several reports, a briefing sent to the NFL's 32 owners last week said that before the 2009 NFC championship game between the Saints and the Minnesota Vikings, Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma - a former Jet - offered $10,000 to any teammate who knocked Vikings quarterback Brett Favre out of the game.
One week earlier, Saints defensive end Bobby McCray decked Arizona Cardinals quarterback Kurt Warner with a vicious and questionable hit. That hit was one of the ones that sparked the NFL's investigation, though Warner reportedly said on Friday that he believes the hit was "clean".
Williams, now the defensive coordinator with the St. Louis Rams, has since apologized and acknowledged "we knew it was wrong while we were doing it." Saints owner Tom Benson even ordered Loomis to make sure any such bounty program was discontinued as soon Benson was made aware of the NFL's investigation. Loomis, who has not yet commented on the allegations, "did not carry out Mr. Benson's direction," according to the league, and denied to league investigators that any bounty program existed.
-
I wonder if Fujita was involved and would face any kind of punishment, he was with the Saints 06-09
-
This isn't the homer in me talking at all. The most the Redskins will face is a fine, for a number of reasons:
-
- Gregg was five years and two regimes ago. We only have three defensive players, one coach, and the owner around from when he was here.
- Williams' "bounty" system also stopped when Blatche took over right after he left.
- Gibbs didn't know about it, otherwise he would have ended it (he didn't know about the "missing man formation" that Williams planned after Sean Taylor died)
- The NFL didn't tell the Redskins to stop it, only to be ignored.
-
-
This isn't the homer in me talking at all. The most the Redskins will face is a fine, for a number of reasons:
-
- Gregg was five years and two regimes ago. We only have three defensive players, one coach, and the owner around from when he was here.
- Williams' "bounty" system also stopped when Blatche took over right after he left.
- Gibbs didn't know about it, otherwise he would have ended it (he didn't know about the "missing man formation" that Williams planned after Sean Taylor died)
- The NFL didn't tell the Redskins to stop it, only to be ignored.
This isn't the homer in me talking at all. The most the Redskins will face is a fine, for a number of reasons:
-
- Gregg was five years and two regimes ago. We only have three defensive players, one coach, and the owner around from when he was here.
- Williams' "bounty" system also stopped when Blatche took over right after he left.
- Gibbs didn't know about it, otherwise he would have ended it (he didn't know about the "missing man formation" that Williams planned after Sean Taylor died)
- The NFL didn't tell the Redskins to stop it, only to be ignored.
I agree, it is far more likely that the Saints will be punished by the loss of draft choices than the Skins would be....nevertheless, if Goodell wants to send a really harsh message, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that the will slap more than one franchise.
Because, here is the deal, in my opinion: Fines don't mean shit to an NFL franchise. That is no punishment. It just means the owner writes a check,and for most of them they could care less.
But the loss of a draft pick is a real punishment...though with Washington I suspect it would be a low round pick if any. The Saints can expect maybe even the loss of their first rounder.
The only other thing they could do....which would be creative, is to say: You are docked X amount from you salary cap.
If the salary cap is, say, 80 million and a team were docked and only be allowed to have a 75 million salary cap while it opponents enjoy the 80 million cap, that could mean something.
-
-
http://www.whotv.com/sports/sns-rt-fbn-saints-newssx1347aa1-20120305,0,6101713.story
The Bills, Titans and Redskins are not being investigated by the NFL, NFL.com reported, based on a source, but the Saints are.
Non-story now. Redskins are still in the running for RG3
-
It may impact us. Fujita is one of the players the league is investigating.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
It may impact us. Fujita is one of the players the league is investigating.
Same goes for Young.
Plus just because the Redskins are not being investigated now, doesn't mean they won't in the future. I would expect the NFL to follow up on all those teams just to figure out who all knew what was going on.
-
It may impact us. Fujita is one of the players the league is investigating.
Same goes for Young.
Plus just because the Redskins are not being investigated now, doesn't mean they won't in the future. I would expect the NFL to follow up on all those teams just to figure out who all knew what was going on.
Plus just because the Redskins are not being investigated now, doesn't mean they won't in the future. I would expect the NFL to follow up on all those teams just to figure out who all knew what was going on.
They already looked into the Skins. We are in the proverbial clear.
-
http://www.whotv.com/sports/sns-rt-fbn-saints-newssx1347aa1-20120305,0,6101713.story
The Bills, Titans and Redskins are not being investigated by the NFL, NFL.com reported, based on a source, but the Saints are.
Non-story now. Redskins are still in the running for RG3
http://www.whotv.com/sports/sns-rt-fbn-saints-newssx1347aa1-20120305,0,6101713.story
Non-story now. Redskins are still in the running for RG3
That might be the same source that said Hillis may want a job with the CIA. So don't think it necessarily reliable.
And you know what, here is a deal I have heard about: Redskins give the Browns their pick in the second round. Browns agree not to use 4th pick in 1st round. You pick RGIII at #6....we all go home happy?
(or Browns take him at #4...and trade him for your #6 and your second round pick...that way it is assured that someone doesn't jump you and take him at #5).
Deal?
(it assumes of course that the Browns don't really want RGIII)
-
http://www.whotv.com/sports/sns-rt-fbn-saints-newssx1347aa1-20120305,0,6101713.story
Non-story now. Redskins are still in the running for RG3
That might be the same source that said Hillis may want a job with the CIA. So don't think it necessarily reliable.
And you know what, here is a deal I have heard about: Redskins give the Browns their pick in the second round. Browns agree not to use 4th pick in 1st round. You pick RGIII at #6....we all go home happy?
(or Browns take him at #4...and trade him for your #6 and your second round pick...that way it is assured that someone doesn't jump you and take him at #5).
Deal?
(it assumes of course that the Browns don't really want RGIII)
That might be the same source that said Hillis may want a job with the CIA. So don't think it necessarily reliable.
And you know what, here is a deal I have heard about: Redskins give the Browns their pick in the second round. Browns agree not to use 4th pick in 1st round. You pick RGIII at #6....we all go home happy?
(or Browns take him at #4...and trade him for your #6 and your second round pick...that way it is assured that someone doesn't jump you and take him at #5).
Deal?
(it assumes of course that the Browns don't really want RGIII)
If I'm Washington's front office I'm offering a swap of firsts and our third and fourth. The difference in value on the chart is 200 points. Our third is worth 240 and our fourth is worth 92.
-
That might be the same source that said Hillis may want a job with the CIA. So don't think it necessarily reliable.
And you know what, here is a deal I have heard about: Redskins give the Browns their pick in the second round. Browns agree not to use 4th pick in 1st round. You pick RGIII at #6....we all go home happy?
(or Browns take him at #4...and trade him for your #6 and your second round pick...that way it is assured that someone doesn't jump you and take him at #5).
Deal?
(it assumes of course that the Browns don't really want RGIII)
If I'm Washington's front office I'm offering a swap of firsts and our third and fourth. The difference in value on the chart is 200 points. Our third is worth 240 and our fourth is worth 92.
If I'm Washington's front office I'm offering a swap of firsts and our third and fourth. The difference in value on the chart is 200 points. Our third is worth 240 and our fourth is worth 92.
Dude the value chart doesn't matter anymore. The new rookie salary structure has changed it massively.
-
-
If I'm Washington's front office I'm offering a swap of firsts and our third and fourth. The difference in value on the chart is 200 points. Our third is worth 240 and our fourth is worth 92.
Dude the value chart doesn't matter anymore. The new rookie salary structure has changed it massively.
Dude the value chart doesn't matter anymore. The new rookie salary structure has changed it massively.
No it hasn't.
Contract value does not affect pick value. The value you are thinking of is not...in fact....pick value.
-
-
Bottom Line: RedSkins are very much in the RG3 contest.
Bottom Line: RedSkins are very much in the RG3 contest.
NSS
-
This isn't the homer in me talking at all. The most the Redskins will face is a fine, for a number of reasons:
-
- Gregg was five years and two regimes ago. We only have three defensive players, one coach, and the owner around from when he was here.
- Williams' "bounty" system also stopped when Blatche took over right after he left.
- Gibbs didn't know about it, otherwise he would have ended it (he didn't know about the "missing man formation" that Williams planned after Sean Taylor died)
- The NFL didn't tell the Redskins to stop it, only to be ignored.
I agree, it is far more likely that the Saints will be punished by the loss of draft choices than the Skins would be....nevertheless, if Goodell wants to send a really harsh message, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that the will slap more than one franchise.
Because, here is the deal, in my opinion: Fines don't mean shit to an NFL franchise. That is no punishment. It just means the owner writes a check,and for most of them they could care less.
But the loss of a draft pick is a real punishment...though with Washington I suspect it would be a low round pick if any. The Saints can expect maybe even the loss of their first rounder.
The only other thing they could do....which would be creative, is to say: You are docked X amount from you salary cap.
If the salary cap is, say, 80 million and a team were docked and only be allowed to have a 75 million salary cap while it opponents enjoy the 80 million cap, that could mean something.
The Gipper Wrote:
The only other thing they could do....which would be creative, is to say: You are docked X amount from you salary cap. If the salary cap is, say, 80 million and a team were docked and only be allowed to have a 75 million salary cap while it opponents enjoy the 80 million cap, that could mean something.
I believe the NFL can not do this, as the Players Assoc. would file a grievance and win. Docking the salary cap affects the employees of said organization, while allowing the owners to net more profit from said organization. The NFL can only fine an organization and/or remove draft picks. The NFL rarely takes 1st round draft picks away, the Patriots were the first (for Spygate).
-
-
The Gipper Wrote:
The only other thing they could do....which would be creative, is to say: You are docked X amount from you salary cap. If the salary cap is, say, 80 million and a team were docked and only be allowed to have a 75 million salary cap while it opponents enjoy the 80 million cap, that could mean something.
I believe the NFL can not do this, as the Players Assoc. would file a grievance and win. Docking the salary cap affects the employees of said organization, while allowing the owners to net more profit from said organization. The NFL can only fine an organization and/or remove draft picks. The NFL rarely takes 1st round draft picks away, the Patriots were the first (for Spygate).
Endymion said:
The Gipper Wrote:
I believe the NFL can not do this, as the Players Assoc. would file a grievance and win. Docking the salary cap affects the employees of said organization, while allowing the owners to net more profit from said organization. The NFL can only fine an organization and/or remove draft picks. The NFL rarely takes 1st round draft picks away, the Patriots were the first (for Spygate).
OK, makes sense....but, as I said, fining a team means absolutely nothing except to those whose pockets the money is taken from....and that is something no fan should give a shit about.
The draft picks though is a definite punishment.
-
This isn't the homer in me talking at all. The most the Redskins will face is a fine, for a number of reasons:
-
- Gregg was five years and two regimes ago. We only have three defensive players, one coach, and the owner around from when he was here.
- Williams' "bounty" system also stopped when Blatche took over right after he left.
- Gibbs didn't know about it, otherwise he would have ended it (he didn't know about the "missing man formation" that Williams planned after Sean Taylor died)
- The NFL didn't tell the Redskins to stop it, only to be ignored.
I agree, it is far more likely that the Saints will be punished by the loss of draft choices than the Skins would be....nevertheless, if Goodell wants to send a really harsh message, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that the will slap more than one franchise.
Because, here is the deal, in my opinion: Fines don't mean shit to an NFL franchise. That is no punishment. It just means the owner writes a check,and for most of them they could care less.
But the loss of a draft pick is a real punishment...though with Washington I suspect it would be a low round pick if any. The Saints can expect maybe even the loss of their first rounder.
The only other thing they could do....which would be creative, is to say: You are docked X amount from you salary cap.
If the salary cap is, say, 80 million and a team were docked and only be allowed to have a 75 million salary cap while it opponents enjoy the 80 million cap, that could mean something.
If the salary cap is, say, 80 million and a team were docked and only be allowed to have a 75 million salary cap while it opponents enjoy the 80 million cap, that could mean something.
In light of the discipline now administered to the Dallas Cowboys and the Washington Redskins, this form of punishment is now a very realistic possibility for the Saints and other bounty-gate teams. The NFL and PA Union have determined that a team that willfully disregards the spirit of the collective bargaining agreement can be docked salary cap space, provided that docked amount is distributed to the other teams.
In terms of the Saints and other bounty-gate teams, they have provided additional compensation to players (beyond the terms of the collective bargaining agreement) for players to hurt other players. This type of infraction would make a salary cap penalty a realistic possibility and the PA would support such an action in the name of player safety. However, in order for it to have any realistic impact, the salary cap hit would have to be significant (greater than 10%) and probably extended (more than 1 year). The loss of a first round draft pick, has the potential to impact a team for 4-5 years, while the financial impact to that team (under the new agreement) is insignificant.
-
-
If the salary cap is, say, 80 million and a team were docked and only be allowed to have a 75 million salary cap while it opponents enjoy the 80 million cap, that could mean something.
In light of the discipline now administered to the Dallas Cowboys and the Washington Redskins, this form of punishment is now a very realistic possibility for the Saints and other bounty-gate teams. The NFL and PA Union have determined that a team that willfully disregards the spirit of the collective bargaining agreement can be docked salary cap space, provided that docked amount is distributed to the other teams.
In terms of the Saints and other bounty-gate teams, they have provided additional compensation to players (beyond the terms of the collective bargaining agreement) for players to hurt other players. This type of infraction would make a salary cap penalty a realistic possibility and the PA would support such an action in the name of player safety. However, in order for it to have any realistic impact, the salary cap hit would have to be significant (greater than 10%) and probably extended (more than 1 year). The loss of a first round draft pick, has the potential to impact a team for 4-5 years, while the financial impact to that team (under the new agreement) is insignificant.
Endymion said:
In light of the discipline now administered to the Dallas Cowboys and the Washington Redskins, this form of punishment is now a very realistic possibility for the Saints and other bounty-gate teams. The NFL and PA Union have determined that a team that willfully disregards the spirit of the collective bargaining agreement can be docked salary cap space, provided that docked amount is distributed to the other teams.
In terms of the Saints and other bounty-gate teams, they have provided additional compensation to players (beyond the terms of the collective bargaining agreement) for players to hurt other players. This type of infraction would make a salary cap penalty a realistic possibility and the PA would support such an action in the name of player safety. However, in order for it to have any realistic impact, the salary cap hit would have to be significant (greater than 10%) and probably extended (more than 1 year). The loss of a first round draft pick, has the potential to impact a team for 4-5 years, while the financial impact to that team (under the new agreement) is insignificant.
Yes, I see what you are saying. By the way, I came up with this "Salary Cap penalty" concept before I ever heard anything about the Skins and Cowboys getting hit by it.
But I see that the Player's Assoc. is saying: "Teams should be hit by salary cap penalty, but our player's should not", so that is where the "spreading of the penalty to other teams" concept comes from.
It may not be surprising if the Saints are hit with both the loss of a draft pick and a salary cap penalty.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login