Evidently, Rucker and Bell both suck.
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Not as sure about Bell. I thought he looked like a terror on film but now everybody says he's slow and stiff... and we've done that with Davis.
Though slow and stiff works for dicks, it doesn't work for football players.
Add in the guy isn't known for being very sharp, and you have a prospect who is fighting some long odds.
I never understood drafting him.
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considering corey williams who we just picked up and was a starter and pro bowler at GB, i'd say they are full of shit. and thats only naming 1 other player
considering corey williams who we just picked up and was a starter and pro bowler at GB, i'd say they are full of shit. and thats only naming 1 other player
Overrating that clown KILLED us because Robaire Smith was on IR so we had no solutions for him. I don't care what excuses are offered - he STUNK in a 3-4 so the idea was atrocious. It also means we didn't feel compelled to draft anyone there. We paid him a Pro Bowl salary and got an exchange value of 0 sacks even though Savage was excited about his ability to rush the passer. When you have more offsides penalties than sacks as a millionaire - let's just say I'm glad the OWNER asked "why the freak am I paying this sweat the GNP of a couple small countries?" Now we're gagging on his cap hit. We didn't go 4-12 because we were spoiled with front 7 talent and I think our team sack totals reflect that. When Rogers trots off the field it's instant stinkage.
There isn't anything that can convince me I need to excuse Williams when I just watched a documentary of Jack Youngblood who played with a fractured Fibulla that was described as breaking like a twig in week 5 and Youngblood said "tape my ass up I'm a football player." He played all the way through the playoffs and into the SB STILL pressuring QBs and it wasn't because Ray Malavasi was the next Vince Lombardi coaching him up. It's because he was born to be a football player instead an overpaid candyass game check casher. We gotta get back to FINDING football players instead of the same old "just give me my damn game check" types.
Now that we've fired the coach and GM - it STILL doesn't erase what our front 7 looks like or is perceived as around the league. The next GM has his work cut out for him so we HAVE to draft better to improve our cap health. As we learned the hard way, the Head Coach and the GM need to be cohesive for things to work. It's a chemistry thing so if Shep tells me Kokkinos or Kinkos works efficiently with Mangini - then Lerner ought to give that a very strong consideration if Mangini is his guy.
- Tom F.
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R. Smith went on IR after CLE got Williams. He also played hurt all year, yet still produced at times. Williams would start just about anywhere in the NFL, though likely as a 4-3 DT, which is where he more naturally fits. He was a bit of a square peg into a round hole. But it's not like its an easy transistion from 4-3 DT to 3-4 DE. He was credited w/ a half of sack, a forced fumble, and 4 PD, to go with 50 tackles.
To put it in perspective, Williams performed on par with Keisel of PIT, Bannan of BALT, Coleman of NYJ, Catillo of SD, or Warren of NE.
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@shepwrite said:
I'll say this with a great deal of conviction: Martin Rucker does not suck. I mean, I don't know if he can cook, but he can run and catch the football very well. He did it a TON at Missouri.Not as sure about Bell. I thought he looked like a terror on film but now everybody says he's slow and stiff... and we've done that with Davis.
Staph...?
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Beau wasn't even on the field, so how can you judge him? I mean, if he would have started 4 games next to Jackson and did decent, i wouldn't call him a bust. Plus, sewage drafted Bell to be Davis' replacement and Martin Rucker for insurance to Winslow. That's why i was begging Romeo to experiment with the younger guys in the last couple of games to see what we have for next year.
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considering corey williams who we just picked up and was a starter and pro bowler at GB, i'd say they are full of shit. and thats only naming 1 other player
Corey Williams never made a Pro Bowl
Typical Browns fans who think our players are better than they are, people keep making excuses about injuries and the coaching when people fail to realize this team is not as talented as we all want to believe.
I agree with the article that only Rogers could start for any team, the remainder of our defense Pool and Jones are both slow and not ball hawks at safety, McDonald is a nickle back, Eric Wright would be a 3rd cornerback, D'Qwell could start for some 4-3 teams, Wimbley, McGinest and Davis would not start for anyone and Corey Williams and Robaire Smith would be rotation guys.
Offfensively Edwards would start along with Joe Thomas and Steinbach and a healthy Winslow, other than those guys Shaffer, Hadnot and Fraley would not start for many teams,, neither would Lewis who is just about finished and Stallworth if used correctly still could be a #2 or #3 receiver.
Wake up folks we don't have the talent you all have been fooled into thinking we have. RAC may have been a terrible head coach but he and injuries are not the only reason this team won 4 games.
You can't win without talent
Corey Williams never made a Pro Bowl
Typical Browns fans who think our players are better than they are, people keep making excuses about injuries and the coaching when people fail to realize this team is not as talented as we all want to believe.
I agree with the article that only Rogers could start for any team, the remainder of our defense Pool and Jones are both slow and not ball hawks at safety, McDonald is a nickle back, Eric Wright would be a 3rd cornerback, D'Qwell could start for some 4-3 teams, Wimbley, McGinest and Davis would not start for anyone and Corey Williams and Robaire Smith would be rotation guys.
Offfensively Edwards would start along with Joe Thomas and Steinbach and a healthy Winslow, other than those guys Shaffer, Hadnot and Fraley would not start for many teams,, neither would Lewis who is just about finished and Stallworth if used correctly still could be a #2 or #3 receiver.
Wake up folks we don't have the talent you all have been fooled into thinking we have. RAC may have been a terrible head coach but he and injuries are not the only reason this team won 4 games.
You can't win without talent
Know who thinks their a coach with all the answers? Your opinion isn't any better then anyone elses.
Get a life
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Come on, guys. Let's just all agree that none of us really know anything
These reports on Bell & Rucker really surprise me. I may have not been a fan of Bell (based on him being "exposed" at the Senior Bowl), but I wouldn't have gone so far as to say that Bell couldn't cut it in the NFL.
Neither would have Mike Mayock, who compared Bell to Jets' linebacker David Harris.
Charles Davis also pointed out that Bell played the roaming weakside linebacker spot at UNLV - not the position an unathletic stiff would end up starting at.
The Rucker comment confuses me even more. My guess is that the league source was commenting on Rucker not being able to develop as a blocker, which could be true. But I can't see a big guy with soft hands being unable to eek out a niche as a slot receiver/red zone target in the NFL.
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Im really pissed at people who dont see the potential awesomeness of B-mac. He is so underrated its rediculous.
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@shepwrite said:
Obviously the "only Rogers" thing is bullshit. I mean OBVIOUSLY. Corey Williams already started for Green Bay and was really good, 7 sacks each of the past two years. The talk in Green Bay is that they lost a lot in run defense when they lost him. So that one's a "duh," so the minimum is two.But now you're going to suggest that the #1 tackler in the NFL couldn't start for 31 teams? I refuse to believe you or anyone else would say something so undeniably Retarded. So let's assume we have at least three players who could start for most other teams.
Considering we were 13th in the NFL in pass defense in spite of ZERO pass rush, it's a given that our four defensive backs are better than those on about 18 other teams, right? In spite of their youth? If Wright, Jones, or Pool make it to free agency some day, any of the three would be very popular and would have plenty of suitors. Jones struggled in the first half of the year but came on late. I'd say 30 teams would LOVE Brandon McDonald as their nickel back, but I'll conservatively say three of our DBs would start on many other teams.
So we can agree that 6 of our defensive starters would start on most other teams. Saying otherwise is just being, as mz the pussy put it, a curmudgeon.
Oh, wait: Wimbley is too good of an athlete not to start and do better on defenses way better than ours. But I'll hold off.
BAH, HUMBUG! Other than Rodgers- who deserved his Pro Bowl berth, and the CBs (impossible to accurately evaluate them with zero pass rush) the rest of the defense was mighty suspect in my book. We shouldn't be talking barely adequate- I want to see guys good enough to win the Browns a Super Bowl. We might have better overall talent than the Bengals or Kansas City, but that's not saying much.
Shep, did you watch any of the Baltimore- Dolphins game? Catch it on NFL Network if you didn't, because that's what a REAL defense is supposed to look like. It's the kind of defense that can win championships. Any comparison of Ed Reed (or Poly-moo-moo from the Squealers) to Poole or Jones is a figment of your imagination.
The heart of the 3-4 is your linebackers, and I've been saying for years Andra Davis blows. NE knows when to get rid of overpriced over the hill talent- see McGinest or Andruzzi.
Wimbley might be a great athlete, but it's all about production. You want to mention him in the same breath as Terrell Suggs or any other top pass rushers I'd care to mention? Put down the crack pipe.
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Zombo said:
If Bell and Rucker are not big-time players, I'm not real concerned ... what were they 4th rounders?If you are banking on 4th rounders to carry your team, you are in trouble.
What troubles me is watching guys this weekend that I was dying for us to take, only for us to pass on, in the first round:
Ed Reed and Adrian Peterson.
All we had to do was hand the commissioner a little piece of paper and they would both be Browns.
Ozzie Newsome took Ed Reed and Haloti Ngata, we took William Green and Kameron Wimbley ... I don't think Beau Bell is our problem.
Zombo
Wouldn't have even have had to take Willie Green if you know who had taken a guy by the name of (hint: initials LT) instead of Fatso Warren.
Our list of first round busts post 1999 is approaching the Bungles level of futility- but it's more than that- at least the really good teams occasionally find gems in the later rounds.
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I disagree. The Browns have two players that could start for a good defense. That's twice as many.
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@shepwrite said:
Obviously the "only Rogers" thing is bullshit. I mean OBVIOUSLY. Corey Williams already started for Green Bay and was really good, 7 sacks each of the past two years. The talk in Green Bay is that they lost a lot in run defense when they lost him. So that one's a "duh," so the minimum is two.But now you're going to suggest that the #1 tackler in the NFL couldn't start for 31 teams? I refuse to believe you or anyone else would say something so undeniably Retarded. So let's assume we have at least three players who could start for most other teams.
Considering we were 13th in the NFL in pass defense in spite of ZERO pass rush, it's a given that our four defensive backs are better than those on about 18 other teams, right? In spite of their youth? If Wright, Jones, or Pool make it to free agency some day, any of the three would be very popular and would have plenty of suitors. Jones struggled in the first half of the year but came on late. I'd say 30 teams would LOVE Brandon McDonald as their nickel back, but I'll conservatively say three of our DBs would start on many other teams.
So we can agree that 6 of our defensive starters would start on most other teams. Saying otherwise is just being, as mz the pussy put it, a curmudgeon.
Oh, wait: Wimbley is too good of an athlete not to start and do better on defenses way better than ours. But I'll hold off.
BAH, HUMBUG! Other than Rodgers- who deserved his Pro Bowl berth, and the CBs (impossible to accurately evaluate them with zero pass rush) the rest of the defense was mighty suspect in my book. We shouldn't be talking barely adequate- I want to see guys good enough to win the Browns a Super Bowl. We might have better overall talent than the Bengals or Kansas City, but that's not saying much.
Shep, did you watch any of the Baltimore- Dolphins game? Catch it on NFL Network if you didn't, because that's what a REAL defense is supposed to look like. It's the kind of defense that can win championships. Any comparison of Ed Reed (or Poly-moo-moo from the Squealers) to Poole or Jones is a figment of your imagination.
The heart of the 3-4 is your linebackers, and I've been saying for years Andra Davis blows. NE knows when to get rid of overpriced over the hill talent- see McGinest or Andruzzi.
Wimbley might be a great athlete, but it's all about production. You want to mention him in the same breath as Terrell Suggs or any other top pass rushers I'd care to mention? Put down the crack pipe.
Shep, did you watch any of the Baltimore- Dolphins game? Catch it on NFL Network if you didn't, because that's what a REAL defense is supposed to look like. It's the kind of defense that can win championships. Any comparison of Ed Reed (or Poly-moo-moo from the Squealers) to Poole or Jones is a figment of your imagination.
The heart of the 3-4 is your linebackers, and I've been saying for years Andra Davis blows. NE knows when to get rid of overpriced over the hill talent- see McGinest or Andruzzi.
Wimbley might be a great athlete, but it's all about production. You want to mention him in the same breath as Terrell Suggs or any other top pass rushers I'd care to mention? Put down the crack pipe.
That reminds me, did anyone else notice that Bart Scott sucked big time in that game and wasn't giving much effort? I really hope we don't make a run for him (I think he is a free agent, could be wrong) this offseason, seemed heartless.
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@shepwrite said:
The Browns have 6-7 players on defense who could start for most other teams. Not all, but most.I know you think I stalk you around, but I don't know it it is that high....I was thinking maybe 3-4 tops....for most teams
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rogers and wright could start for pretty much any team. wright might be the #2 corner, but he'd start. d'qwell could probably start for at least half the teams in the league, a healthy sean jones 75%. and that's it. corey williams could be just about any 4-3 team's second DT, if one were to consider that starting.
that's it.
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rogers and wright could start for pretty much any team. wright might be the #2 corner, but he'd start. d'qwell could probably start for at least half the teams in the league, a healthy sean jones 75%. and that's it. corey williams could be just about any 4-3 team's second DT, if one were to consider that starting.
that's it.
rogers and wright could start for pretty much any team. wright might be the #2 corner, but he'd start. d'qwell could probably start for at least half the teams in the league, a healthy sean jones 75%. and that's it. corey williams could be just about any 4-3 team's second DT, if one were to consider that starting.
that's it.
Poole could start for a lot of teams. Robaire Smith could start or be in the line rotation for most 3-4 teams. Sean Jones is a free agent, let's see how much action he gets in FA. Someone is going to sign him to start at SS.
There a a whole lot of teams that would love to have some of our young guys to develop into solid starters. McDonald, Hall and Rubin.
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