Guys That Will Be Visiting Teams
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I have these guys as being the first ones that I would like to see out. If the 53-man roster was made today, these guys would all make it.
QB – Thaddeus Lewis
RB – Chris Ogbonnaya
WR – Carlton Mitchell
WR – Rod Windsor
OL – Jarrod Shaw G
OL – Stanley Daniels G
OL – Dominic Alford G/T
LB – Craig Robertson MLB
LB – Quinton Spears MLB/OLB
DB – James Dockery CB
DB – Ray Ventrone S
That's 11 guys that I would not mind being cut by the end of pre-season. So... if I were to actually use all 13 picks it would be at these 11 positions + another OT and DT to compete for depth spots.
Add these names to the cuts:
Armond Smith, Eddie Williams FB, Owen Spencer, Dan Gronkowski, Brian Sanford DE, Emmanuel Stephens DE, Kiante Tripp DT, Auston English DE, Ben Jacobs OLB, Brian Smith MLB, David Sims SS, Jeff Wolfert K
#Justsayin' -
Hardesty and McCoy will have competetion in camp. Neither one is going to be "handed" the starting job. We will draft a QB and RB within the first 5 picks. This is our FOs style. Holmgren loves the idea of breeding competetion, so does Childress and Jauron. It makes you get the best out of who you have. The problem is that a lot of the competetion on our talent-starved team is weak and the winner should merely be a backup in a lot of instances, but they end up starting for us.
Hopefully this draft breeds competetion at a higher level, thus making guys like McCoy and Hardesty either become better or shrink and be overtaken by early and mid-round picks. This is how you build through the draft. The risk is... everybody can't shrink. You have to have guys that play at a higher level that you picked them at, or "Gems" so to say. Lots of young guys on our roster are being given the opportunity for greatness. We won't know how that pans out until we see it on Sundays... until then, this team will continue to look like crap on paper...
I don't think you have paid attention at all to what our FO does. You are expositing what you wish they would do, not what their track record is. They bring in "their guys" and they generally stick with "their guys". Aside from the 9 rookies and second year men that are starters on this roster they also have both Sheldon Brown and Chris Gocong which were Heckert's "guys" imported from his time in Philly...and maybe a couple of more.
No, it would NOT surprise me one bit if the Browns did NOT bring in a QB or RB in their first 5 picks. They could easily used those picks on a WR, a RT, a DB, a LB.
Perhaps starting in the 4th round, yes, they MAY bring in some picks to compete with Hardesty and McCoy.....but don't be surprised at all if they don't move any earlier than that.
I don't think you have paid attention at all to what our FO does. You are expositing what you wish they would do, not what their track record is. They bring in "their guys" and they generally stick with "their guys". Aside from the 9 rookies and second year men that are starters on this roster they also have both Sheldon Brown and Chris Gocong which were Heckert's "guys" imported from his time in Philly...and maybe a couple of more.
No, it would NOT surprise me one bit if the Browns did NOT bring in a QB or RB in their first 5 picks. They could easily used those picks on a WR, a RT, a DB, a LB.
Perhaps starting in the 4th round, yes, they MAY bring in some picks to compete with Hardesty and McCoy.....but don't be surprised at all if they don't move any earlier than that.
I can't say you're wrong, but I don't see Holmgren being dumb enough to only give McCoy a 4th rounder or later to compete with. That is barely pushing him, and he NEEDS pushed this offseason. Hardesty, on the other hand, I could see being given a little more leeway, and slipping into the starting role. Honestly though, I think I'm okay with both these guys as starters for 2012. There are so many holes at starting positions on this team, and a couple of them are going to have to be sacrificed to guys who win the jobs in camp despite having weak competetion.
And, every front office brings in "their guys." Most infamously was Mangini when he got the Browns job. That doesn't mean they NEED "their guys" to start, but they bring them in for a reason. If we continue to fill our roster with "their guys" that they draft and give them opportunities, it will only improve this team's future.
Then, one of these days when we only have 2-3 holes to fill up, we hit the FA market and field a championship-level team finally. You build from the ground up. That's the way it works. Until we start "sticking" with "their guys," we'll continue to be stuck in mediocrity and instability... unfortunately.
#Justsayin' -
I have these guys as being the first ones that I would like to see out. If the 53-man roster was made today, these guys would all make it.
QB – Thaddeus Lewis
RB – Chris Ogbonnaya
WR – Carlton Mitchell
WR – Rod Windsor
OL – Jarrod Shaw G
OL – Stanley Daniels G
OL – Dominic Alford G/T
LB – Craig Robertson MLB
LB – Quinton Spears MLB/OLB
DB – James Dockery CB
DB – Ray Ventrone S
That's 11 guys that I would not mind being cut by the end of pre-season. So... if I were to actually use all 13 picks it would be at these 11 positions + another OT and DT to compete for depth spots.
Add these names to the cuts:
Armond Smith, Eddie Williams FB, Owen Spencer, Dan Gronkowski, Brian Sanford DE, Emmanuel Stephens DE, Kiante Tripp DT, Auston English DE, Ben Jacobs OLB, Brian Smith MLB, David Sims SS, Jeff Wolfert K
I have these guys as being the first ones that I would like to see out. If the 53-man roster was made today, these guys would all make it.
QB – Thaddeus Lewis
RB – Chris Ogbonnaya
WR – Carlton Mitchell
WR – Rod Windsor
OL – Jarrod Shaw G
OL – Stanley Daniels G
OL – Dominic Alford G/T
LB – Craig Robertson MLB
LB – Quinton Spears MLB/OLB
DB – James Dockery CB
DB – Ray Ventrone S
That's 11 guys that I would not mind being cut by the end of pre-season. So... if I were to actually use all 13 picks it would be at these 11 positions + another OT and DT to compete for depth spots.
I might think that Aldon Smith rather than Obiwon could be out...though Smith is more of a scatback that we need. And I would see Owen Spencer rather than Carlton Mitchell out at WR.
Plus, you are really going to need to pick up some OL if you ditch the ones you mention....not that I disagree with that action
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I don't think you have paid attention at all to what our FO does. You are expositing what you wish they would do, not what their track record is. They bring in "their guys" and they generally stick with "their guys". Aside from the 9 rookies and second year men that are starters on this roster they also have both Sheldon Brown and Chris Gocong which were Heckert's "guys" imported from his time in Philly...and maybe a couple of more.
No, it would NOT surprise me one bit if the Browns did NOT bring in a QB or RB in their first 5 picks. They could easily used those picks on a WR, a RT, a DB, a LB.
Perhaps starting in the 4th round, yes, they MAY bring in some picks to compete with Hardesty and McCoy.....but don't be surprised at all if they don't move any earlier than that.
I can't say you're wrong, but I don't see Holmgren being dumb enough to only give McCoy a 4th rounder or later to compete with. That is barely pushing him, and he NEEDS pushed this offseason. Hardesty, on the other hand, I could see being given a little more leeway, and slipping into the starting role. Honestly though, I think I'm okay with both these guys as starters for 2012. There are so many holes at starting positions on this team, and a couple of them are going to have to be sacrificed to guys who win the jobs in camp despite having weak competetion.
And, every front office brings in "their guys." Most infamously was Mangini when he got the Browns job. That doesn't mean they NEED "their guys" to start, but they bring them in for a reason. If we continue to fill our roster with "their guys" that they draft and give them opportunities, it will only improve this team's future.
Then, one of these days when we only have 2-3 holes to fill up, we hit the FA market and field a championship-level team finally. You build from the ground up. That's the way it works. Until we start "sticking" with "their guys," we'll continue to be stuck in mediocrity and instability... unfortunately.
I can't say you're wrong, but I don't see Holmgren being dumb enough to only give McCoy a 4th rounder or later to compete with. That is barely pushing him, and he NEEDS pushed this offseason. Hardesty, on the other hand, I could see being given a little more leeway, and slipping into the starting role. Honestly though, I think I'm okay with both these guys as starters for 2012. There are so many holes at starting positions on this team, and a couple of them are going to have to be sacrificed to guys who win the jobs in camp despite having weak competetion.
And, every front office brings in "their guys." Most infamously was Mangini when he got the Browns job. That doesn't mean they NEED "their guys" to start, but they bring them in for a reason. If we continue to fill our roster with "their guys" that they draft and give them opportunities, it will only improve this team's future.
Then, one of these days when we only have 2-3 holes to fill up, we hit the FA market and field a championship-level team finally. You build from the ground up. That's the way it works. Until we start "sticking" with "their guys," we'll continue to be stuck in mediocrity and instability... unfortunately.
Only two of the guy 15-16 guys they have taken in the last two drafts are no longer on the team. See the depth chart. If Hardesty is a starter then that means 10 starters on the Browns will have come from those last 2 drafts....and probably at least 3-4 more from this draft. Natually, all those guys gotta get the job done. The jury is still out.
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I have these guys as being the first ones that I would like to see out. If the 53-man roster was made today, these guys would all make it.
QB – Thaddeus Lewis
RB – Chris Ogbonnaya
WR – Carlton Mitchell
WR – Rod Windsor
OL – Jarrod Shaw G
OL – Stanley Daniels G
OL – Dominic Alford G/T
LB – Craig Robertson MLB
LB – Quinton Spears MLB/OLB
DB – James Dockery CB
DB – Ray Ventrone S
That's 11 guys that I would not mind being cut by the end of pre-season. So... if I were to actually use all 13 picks it would be at these 11 positions + another OT and DT to compete for depth spots.
I might think that Aldon Smith rather than Obiwon could be out...though Smith is more of a scatback that we need. And I would see Owen Spencer rather than Carlton Mitchell out at WR.
Plus, you are really going to need to pick up some OL if you ditch the ones you mention....not that I disagree with that action
I might think that Aldon Smith rather than Obiwon could be out...though Smith is more of a scatback that we need. And I would see Owen Spencer rather than Carlton Mitchell out at WR.
Plus, you are really going to need to pick up some OL if you ditch the ones you mention....not that I disagree with that action
I had those guys as farther down on the depth chart than the ones I listed. I made an assumption about Smith and Spencer that they would be below Obi and Mitchell, thus not even given a chance at the 53 this year.
My mistake.
The guys I listed were ones that would make the 53, if we had to make the cuts today.
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Note, there are 62 players on that depth chart. With 13 new draftees plus who knows what else, something is going to have to move out.
I definitely see major holes at:
RWR
RT
FS
RCB
SLB
(note I didn't put QB or RB in there)
to be filled possibly by:
RWR: Blackmon Ok St. 4th overallpick
ROT: Bobbie Massie Ole Miss 2d round #37
FS: Markelle Martin Ok. Stl 3rd round
SLB: Zach Brown UNC #22
RCB: Chase Minniefield, 4th round. His stock has dropped tremendously where some services say he is only the 17th best cornerback in the draft!! (I was surprised by that.
I definitely see major holes at:
RWR
RT
FS
RCB
SLB
I like it, but I see it a little differently.
We need day 1 starter quality, in this order at: WR1, RT, OLB
We need players to compete to start at (in this order): RB, RG, CB2, WR(slot), QB, FS
We need to add depth at: OT, MLB, OG, and DT
Right now I see:
Blackmon at #4 at WR
Jonathan Martin at #22 at RT (doubt he drops that far). Could also see Tannehill dropping here.
Either QB, RB, or OLB in the 2nd
Mid-round picks at QB, RB, OLB, CB
Later picks at the other positions mentioned above including a slot reciever, safety, guard.
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I definitely see major holes at:
RWR
RT
FS
RCB
SLB
I like it, but I see it a little differently.
We need day 1 starter quality, in this order at: WR1, RT, OLB
We need players to compete to start at (in this order): RB, RG, CB2, WR(slot), QB, FS
We need to add depth at: OT, MLB, OG, and DT
Right now I see:
Blackmon at #4 at WR
Jonathan Martin at #22 at RT (doubt he drops that far). Could also see Tannehill dropping here.
Either QB, RB, or OLB in the 2nd
Mid-round picks at QB, RB, OLB, CB
Later picks at the other positions mentioned above including a slot reciever, safety, guard.
I like it, but I see it a little differently.
We need day 1 starter quality, in this order at: WR1, RT, OLB
We need players to compete to start at (in this order): RB, RG, CB2, WR(slot), QB, FS
We need to add depth at: OT, MLB, OG, and DT
Right now I see:
Blackmon at #4 at WR
Jonathan Martin at #22 at RT (doubt he drops that far). Could also see Tannehill dropping here.
Either QB, RB, or OLB in the 2nd
Mid-round picks at QB, RB, OLB, CB
Later picks at the other positions mentioned above including a slot reciever, safety, guard.
I don't think that is too much different than what I said. I had WR and LB at 4/22, and OT at 37. You had WR/OT at 4/22 with LB at 37. Either order could work.
I did put a priority on a FS. I mean, if I were pushed, I would rather keep Sheldon Brown at CB than Usama Young at FS...so FS is more of my priority.
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I really thought Hardesty was a steel in the draft, I was wrong!!!!! cant stay on the field and does not have the vision I thought he had...
And for the 10,000 time we will not draft 4th
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I really thought Hardesty was a steel in the draft, I was wrong!!!!! cant stay on the field and does not have the vision I thought he had...
And for the 10,000 time we will not draft 4th
I really thought Hardesty was a steel in the draft, I was wrong!!!!! cant stay on the field and does not have the vision I thought he had...
And for the 10,000 time we will not draft 4th
Oh, I forgot that just because you say so we wont'! Makes sense...
Well, I happen to "know" that we will be picking 4th, for the draft chart tells me so. So, unless you have inside knowledge or are a fortune teller...
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I really thought Hardesty was a steel in the draft, I was wrong!!!!! cant stay on the field and does not have the vision I thought he had...
And for the 10,000 time we will not draft 4th
I really thought Hardesty was a steel in the draft, I was wrong!!!!! cant stay on the field and does not have the vision I thought he had...
And for the 10,000 time we will not draft 4th
Politics 101 my friend. Don't admitt failed believes while prognosticating the future.
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David Wilson looks sick!
David Wilson looks sick!
Are you a doctor? What is his diagnosis?
Elephantitis?
Werewolf Syndrome?
Blue Skin Disorder?
Vampire Disease?
Alice in Wonderland Disorder?
Walking Corpse Syndrome?
Jumping Frenchman Disorder?
These are are real diseases. So, what do you say, Bones?
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David Wilson looks sick!
Are you a doctor? What is his diagnosis?
Elephantitis?
Werewolf Syndrome?
Blue Skin Disorder?
Vampire Disease?
Alice in Wonderland Disorder?
Walking Corpse Syndrome?
Jumping Frenchman Disorder?
These are are real diseases. So, what do you say, Bones?
Are you a doctor? What is his diagnosis?
Elephantitis?
Werewolf Syndrome?
Blue Skin Disorder?
Vampire Disease?
Alice in Wonderland Disorder?
Walking Corpse Syndrome?
Jumping Frenchman Disorder?
These are are real diseases. So, what do you say, Bones?
lol. I just ment that I am impressed with what I've seen (which is only a few highlight reals so take it with a grain of salt). He looks to have ridiculous balance, good speed and seems harder to bring down than he looks like he would be from his size.
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Are you a doctor? What is his diagnosis?
Elephantitis?
Werewolf Syndrome?
Blue Skin Disorder?
Vampire Disease?
Alice in Wonderland Disorder?
Walking Corpse Syndrome?
Jumping Frenchman Disorder?
These are are real diseases. So, what do you say, Bones?
lol. I just ment that I am impressed with what I've seen (which is only a few highlight reals so take it with a grain of salt). He looks to have ridiculous balance, good speed and seems harder to bring down than he looks like he would be from his size.
lol. I just ment that I am impressed with what I've seen (which is only a few highlight reals so take it with a grain of salt). He looks to have ridiculous balance, good speed and seems harder to bring down than he looks like he would be from his size.
That sounds like he is pretty healthy to me!
(Regina....does that mean you are the bloody Queen...or that you live in Saskatchewan?
By the way, the one time I ran into the Queen was in Saskatoon. Though, I did have a cousin that once worked closely with her)
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Here is what I believe this portends: The Browns are going to force feed Montario Hardesty into the starting RB spot. They are going to give him the job and say "You were a second round draft pick. You are our #1 guy. We draft people that high to start. You are the starter and you have this year to prove that you deserve it. So put on your big boy pants and get the hell out there and run the damn ball."
The same could go for Colt. In other words, H&H have not given up on them. They will get a WR, a RT, some defense, and maybe a QB and another RB somewhere down the line with their 13 picks...but they are going to make Hardesty and McCoy prove they are not worthy of their investment in them or they are going to die trying.
Here is what I believe this portends: The Browns are going to force feed Montario Hardesty into the starting RB spot. They are going to give him the job and say "You were a second round draft pick. You are our #1 guy. We draft people that high to start. You are the starter and you have this year to prove that you deserve it. So put on your big boy pants and get the hell out there and run the damn ball."
The same could go for Colt.
Interesting "tough love" take, Gip...
In Hardesty's case it also plays the odds that he should not get hurt again... but if he should happen to get hurt, he's gone.
Interesting thing about Pro days is how many teams go supposedly to look at "the star" everyone is focusing upon when either:
- it was really about another player going in; or
- ends up being about someone that unexpectedly grabs their attention.
Then there's always the pure, Kabuki Theater aspect of star gazing...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Here is what I believe this portends: The Browns are going to force feed Montario Hardesty into the starting RB spot. They are going to give him the job and say "You were a second round draft pick. You are our #1 guy. We draft people that high to start. You are the starter and you have this year to prove that you deserve it. So put on your big boy pants and get the hell out there and run the damn ball."
The same could go for Colt.
Interesting "tough love" take, Gip...
In Hardesty's case it also plays the odds that he should not get hurt again... but if he should happen to get hurt, he's gone.
Interesting thing about Pro days is how many teams go supposedly to look at "the star" everyone is focusing upon when either:
- it was really about another player going in; or
- ends up being about someone that unexpectedly grabs their attention.
Then there's always the pure, Kabuki Theater aspect of star gazing...
Interesting "tough love" take, Gip...
In Hardesty's case it also plays the odds that he should not get hurt again... but if he should happen to get hurt, he's gone.
Interesting thing about Pro days is how many teams go supposedly to look at "the star" everyone is focusing upon when either:
- it was really about another player going in; or
- ends up being about someone that unexpectedly grabs their attention.
Then there's always the pure, Kabuki Theater aspect of star gazing...
My take on this is a bit of tough love....but it is also based on the fact that Holmgren and Heckert are arrogant enough to not believe they have made a mistake with one of their choice assets, like a second round draft pick. They won't admit that this guy is a bust until it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt that he is a bust.
And they believe....and for all we know it may be that given proper health Hardesty will flourish...now especially that he has had 2 years in the system.
It would be nice to know if this guy really is worth a shit or not...when healthy.
The other reason for my opinion is that, true to their word H&H really DO want to build through the draft.
They got a hole at RT and a hole at WR that are currently filled by guys that are A. not doing the job and B. are not H&H guys.
And they have holes at FS, CB and LB that are of the same ilk.
With Hardesty at RB they have 10 starters on this team from their last two drafts. I think they would like to make it 13 or 14, minimally, out of 3 drafts.
Whether or not this clattering collection of caliginous junk can win after having been built remains...to us...to be seen. H&H however have no doubt that it will.
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Interesting "tough love" take, Gip...
In Hardesty's case it also plays the odds that he should not get hurt again... but if he should happen to get hurt, he's gone.
Interesting thing about Pro days is how many teams go supposedly to look at "the star" everyone is focusing upon when either:
- it was really about another player going in; or
- ends up being about someone that unexpectedly grabs their attention.
Then there's always the pure, Kabuki Theater aspect of star gazing...
My take on this is a bit of tough love....but it is also based on the fact that Holmgren and Heckert are arrogant enough to not believe they have made a mistake with one of their choice assets, like a second round draft pick. They won't admit that this guy is a bust until it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt that he is a bust.
And they believe....and for all we know it may be that given proper health Hardesty will flourish...now especially that he has had 2 years in the system.
It would be nice to know if this guy really is worth a shit or not...when healthy.
The other reason for my opinion is that, true to their word H&H really DO want to build through the draft.
They got a hole at RT and a hole at WR that are currently filled by guys that are A. not doing the job and B. are not H&H guys.
And they have holes at FS, CB and LB that are of the same ilk.
With Hardesty at RB they have 10 starters on this team from their last two drafts. I think they would like to make it 13 or 14, minimally, out of 3 drafts.
Whether or not this clattering collection of caliginous junk can win after having been built remains...to us...to be seen. H&H however have no doubt that it will.
Whether or not this clattering collection of caliginous junk can win after having been built remains...to us...to be seen. H&H however have no doubt that it will.
Good points, but please cool it with the cacophony of collectible colloquial alliteration before we collectively succumb to its contagious appeal...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
lol. I just ment that I am impressed with what I've seen (which is only a few highlight reals so take it with a grain of salt). He looks to have ridiculous balance, good speed and seems harder to bring down than he looks like he would be from his size.
That sounds like he is pretty healthy to me!
(Regina....does that mean you are the bloody Queen...or that you live in Saskatchewan?
By the way, the one time I ran into the Queen was in Saskatoon. Though, I did have a cousin that once worked closely with her)
That sounds like he is pretty healthy to me!
(Regina....does that mean you are the bloody Queen...or that you live in Saskatchewan?
By the way, the one time I ran into the Queen was in Saskatoon. Though, I did have a cousin that once worked closely with her)
From Saskatchewan......and not the bloody queen. lol
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Whether or not this clattering collection of caliginous junk can win after having been built remains...to us...to be seen. H&H however have no doubt that it will.
Good points, but please cool it with the cacophony of collectible colloquial alliteration before we collectively succumb to its contagious appeal...
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