Hines Ward Retires
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YOUR criteria. You're the same guy who claims Cleveland has 13 championships.
Whatever your criteria is, you can bet it's the same level of a joke.
Cleveland does have 13 championships.
Count them.
Google Wikipedia, google pro-football-reference, google the pro football Hall of Fame, google The Sporting news, etc. etc. etc. those are just some places you can do your count.
I mean, you think I made shit like that up?
As for the criteria for the HOF for receivers. Did you even bother to read that thread?
Like most ignorant Steeler fans you flap your stupid jaws without even bother to know what it is you are flapping your jaws about.
What I did was to compare stats with contemporaries and to note whose stats were higher.
Or, do you think that things like yards, catches, Touchdowns should not count in HOF consideration?
And at looking at those basic raw statistics in comparison with his contemporaries like Moss, Owens, Harrison, and Bruce, I concluded that Ward is a borderline Hall of Famer. Which, based on those, I believe is an accurate assessment. I continued and said that because he was a part of a couple of Super Bowl Champions that that might enhance his chances.
I also said that his reputation for being dirty, or nasty if you prefer, might work a bit against him.
But who knows because that is mostly subjective.
Now, what is it about the above you take issue with? Can the shit you call brains analyze that info?
Cleveland does have 13 championships.
Count them.
Google Wikipedia, google pro-football-reference, google the pro football Hall of Fame, google The Sporting news, etc. etc. etc. those are just some places you can do your count.
I mean, you think I made shit like that up?
As for the criteria for the HOF for receivers. Did you even bother to read that thread?
Like most ignorant Steeler fans you flap your stupid jaws without even bother to know what it is you are flapping your jaws about.
What I did was to compare stats with contemporaries and to note whose stats were higher.
Or, do you think that things like yards, catches, Touchdowns should not count in HOF consideration?
And at looking at those basic raw statistics in comparison with his contemporaries like Moss, Owens, Harrison, and Bruce, I concluded that Ward is a borderline Hall of Famer. Which, based on those, I believe is an accurate assessment. I continued and said that because he was a part of a couple of Super Bowl Champions that that might enhance his chances.
I also said that his reputation for being dirty, or nasty if you prefer, might work a bit against him.
But who knows because that is mostly subjective.
Now, what is it about the above you take issue with? Can the shit you call brains analyze that info?
PRE-CHAMPIONSHIP ERA - Era of football that has about much in common with current football as does Rugby. There was no championship game as championships were awarded and disputed, only 3 teams from this era still exist. Teams did not play organized schedules, many played non-league opponents.
1920 - Akron Pros - Akron is NOT Cleveland (defunct franchise)
1922 - Canton Bulldogs - Canton is NOT Cleveland (defunct franchise)
1923 - Canton Bulldogs - Canton is NOT Cleveland (defunct franchise)
1924 - Cleveland Bulldogs - (defunct franchise) Not the same "Bulldogs" Franchise - featured a dispute from the Chicago Franchise
All-America Football League - Defunct league that did not feature a draft - so they were not on the same playing field as a normal professional team. The NFL does NOT recognize these championships. All players were complete free agents - only 2 teams managed to not be defunct.
1946 - AAFC Championship
1947 - AAFC Championship
1948 - AAFC Championship
1949 - AAFC Championship
NFL Championships - Recognized by the NFL as the equivalent of the NFC Championship Game by the NFL Record and Fact Book. Playing Home Games on a rotating schedule gives one team distinct advantage vs. Neutral site game. Also did not have to enter into a playoff system, save for one tie breaker - needed 5 post-season wins for Browns to win 4 NFL Championships.
1945 - Cleveland Rams - The 2nd of 3 Cleveland Franchise to not remain in Cleveland. A more legitimate championship than the AAFC Browns as they had to play by the rules of the rest of the NFL, a more established league featuring a draft.
1950 - NFL Championship (played in Cleveland, not neutral site)
1954 - NFL Championship (played in Cleveland, not neutral site)
1955 - NFL Championship
1964 - NFL Championship (played in Cleveland, not neutral site)
Bottom line Gipper - you are the ONLY person in the world that thinks that any of Cleveland's 13 Championships are remotely close to what the Super Bowl is.
You can have all of those, you don't even know who played for any of those teams, rooted for any of them - even seen highlights of any kind. The rest of the World wants Super Bowls, I can tell you my friends who are Packers and Giants fans don't give a darn about the old championships, they prefer their Super Bowls.
Face it, you are desperate after losing for the majority of your history that you have to take credit for the accomplishments of other franchises.
-
Cleveland does have 13 championships.
Count them.
Google Wikipedia, google pro-football-reference, google the pro football Hall of Fame, google The Sporting news, etc. etc. etc. those are just some places you can do your count.
I mean, you think I made shit like that up?
As for the criteria for the HOF for receivers. Did you even bother to read that thread?
Like most ignorant Steeler fans you flap your stupid jaws without even bother to know what it is you are flapping your jaws about.
What I did was to compare stats with contemporaries and to note whose stats were higher.
Or, do you think that things like yards, catches, Touchdowns should not count in HOF consideration?
And at looking at those basic raw statistics in comparison with his contemporaries like Moss, Owens, Harrison, and Bruce, I concluded that Ward is a borderline Hall of Famer. Which, based on those, I believe is an accurate assessment. I continued and said that because he was a part of a couple of Super Bowl Champions that that might enhance his chances.
I also said that his reputation for being dirty, or nasty if you prefer, might work a bit against him.
But who knows because that is mostly subjective.
Now, what is it about the above you take issue with? Can the shit you call brains analyze that info?
PRE-CHAMPIONSHIP ERA - Era of football that has about much in common with current football as does Rugby. There was no championship game as championships were awarded and disputed, only 3 teams from this era still exist. Teams did not play organized schedules, many played non-league opponents.
1920 - Akron Pros - Akron is NOT Cleveland (defunct franchise)
1922 - Canton Bulldogs - Canton is NOT Cleveland (defunct franchise)
1923 - Canton Bulldogs - Canton is NOT Cleveland (defunct franchise)
1924 - Cleveland Bulldogs - (defunct franchise) Not the same "Bulldogs" Franchise - featured a dispute from the Chicago Franchise
All-America Football League - Defunct league that did not feature a draft - so they were not on the same playing field as a normal professional team. The NFL does NOT recognize these championships. All players were complete free agents - only 2 teams managed to not be defunct.
1946 - AAFC Championship
1947 - AAFC Championship
1948 - AAFC Championship
1949 - AAFC Championship
NFL Championships - Recognized by the NFL as the equivalent of the NFC Championship Game by the NFL Record and Fact Book. Playing Home Games on a rotating schedule gives one team distinct advantage vs. Neutral site game. Also did not have to enter into a playoff system, save for one tie breaker - needed 5 post-season wins for Browns to win 4 NFL Championships.
1945 - Cleveland Rams - The 2nd of 3 Cleveland Franchise to not remain in Cleveland. A more legitimate championship than the AAFC Browns as they had to play by the rules of the rest of the NFL, a more established league featuring a draft.
1950 - NFL Championship (played in Cleveland, not neutral site)
1954 - NFL Championship (played in Cleveland, not neutral site)
1955 - NFL Championship
1964 - NFL Championship (played in Cleveland, not neutral site)
Bottom line Gipper - you are the ONLY person in the world that thinks that any of Cleveland's 13 Championships are remotely close to what the Super Bowl is.
You can have all of those, you don't even know who played for any of those teams, rooted for any of them - even seen highlights of any kind. The rest of the World wants Super Bowls, I can tell you my friends who are Packers and Giants fans don't give a darn about the old championships, they prefer their Super Bowls.
Face it, you are desperate after losing for the majority of your history that you have to take credit for the accomplishments of other franchises.
PRE-CHAMPIONSHIP ERA - Era of football that has about much in common with current football as does Rugby. There was no championship game as championships were awarded and disputed, only 3 teams from this era still exist. Teams did not play organized schedules, many played non-league opponents.
1920 - Akron Pros - Akron is NOT Cleveland (defunct franchise)
1922 - Canton Bulldogs - Canton is NOT Cleveland (defunct franchise)
1923 - Canton Bulldogs - Canton is NOT Cleveland (defunct franchise)
1924 - Cleveland Bulldogs - (defunct franchise) Not the same "Bulldogs" Franchise - featured a dispute from the Chicago Franchise
All-America Football League - Defunct league that did not feature a draft - so they were not on the same playing field as a normal professional team. The NFL does NOT recognize these championships. All players were complete free agents - only 2 teams managed to not be defunct.
1946 - AAFC Championship
1947 - AAFC Championship
1948 - AAFC Championship
1949 - AAFC Championship
NFL Championships - Recognized by the NFL as the equivalent of the NFC Championship Game by the NFL Record and Fact Book. Playing Home Games on a rotating schedule gives one team distinct advantage vs. Neutral site game. Also did not have to enter into a playoff system, save for one tie breaker - needed 5 post-season wins for Browns to win 4 NFL Championships.
1945 - Cleveland Rams - The 2nd of 3 Cleveland Franchise to not remain in Cleveland. A more legitimate championship than the AAFC Browns as they had to play by the rules of the rest of the NFL, a more established league featuring a draft.
1950 - NFL Championship (played in Cleveland, not neutral site)
1954 - NFL Championship (played in Cleveland, not neutral site)
1955 - NFL Championship
1964 - NFL Championship (played in Cleveland, not neutral site)
Bottom line Gipper - you are the ONLY person in the world that thinks that any of Cleveland's 13 Championships are remotely close to what the Super Bowl is.
You can have all of those, you don't even know who played for any of those teams, rooted for any of them - even seen highlights of any kind. The rest of the World wants Super Bowls, I can tell you my friends who are Packers and Giants fans don't give a darn about the old championships, they prefer their Super Bowls.
Face it, you are desperate after losing for the majority of your history that you have to take credit for the accomplishments of other franchises.
Again. Prime example of a Stooler Fag that thinks Championships didnt count until 1974...A Championship is a Championship regardless if its called the Superbowl or the Jockstrap bowl...theyre still championships wheter you accept it or not...Now go jack off on your little piss towel.
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This Thread should have been done at "Hines Ward Retires".
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PRE-CHAMPIONSHIP ERA - Era of football that has about much in common with current football as does Rugby. There was no championship game as championships were awarded and disputed, only 3 teams from this era still exist. Teams did not play organized schedules, many played non-league opponents.
1920 - Akron Pros - Akron is NOT Cleveland (defunct franchise)
1922 - Canton Bulldogs - Canton is NOT Cleveland (defunct franchise)
1923 - Canton Bulldogs - Canton is NOT Cleveland (defunct franchise)
1924 - Cleveland Bulldogs - (defunct franchise) Not the same "Bulldogs" Franchise - featured a dispute from the Chicago Franchise
All-America Football League - Defunct league that did not feature a draft - so they were not on the same playing field as a normal professional team. The NFL does NOT recognize these championships. All players were complete free agents - only 2 teams managed to not be defunct.
1946 - AAFC Championship
1947 - AAFC Championship
1948 - AAFC Championship
1949 - AAFC Championship
NFL Championships - Recognized by the NFL as the equivalent of the NFC Championship Game by the NFL Record and Fact Book. Playing Home Games on a rotating schedule gives one team distinct advantage vs. Neutral site game. Also did not have to enter into a playoff system, save for one tie breaker - needed 5 post-season wins for Browns to win 4 NFL Championships.
1945 - Cleveland Rams - The 2nd of 3 Cleveland Franchise to not remain in Cleveland. A more legitimate championship than the AAFC Browns as they had to play by the rules of the rest of the NFL, a more established league featuring a draft.
1950 - NFL Championship (played in Cleveland, not neutral site)
1954 - NFL Championship (played in Cleveland, not neutral site)
1955 - NFL Championship
1964 - NFL Championship (played in Cleveland, not neutral site)
Bottom line Gipper - you are the ONLY person in the world that thinks that any of Cleveland's 13 Championships are remotely close to what the Super Bowl is.
You can have all of those, you don't even know who played for any of those teams, rooted for any of them - even seen highlights of any kind. The rest of the World wants Super Bowls, I can tell you my friends who are Packers and Giants fans don't give a darn about the old championships, they prefer their Super Bowls.
Face it, you are desperate after losing for the majority of your history that you have to take credit for the accomplishments of other franchises.
Again. Prime example of a Stooler Fag that thinks Championships didnt count until 1974...A Championship is a Championship regardless if its called the Superbowl or the Jockstrap bowl...theyre still championships wheter you accept it or not...Now go jack off on your little piss towel.
Again. Prime example of a Stooler Fag that thinks Championships didnt count until 1974...A Championship is a Championship regardless if its called the Superbowl or the Jockstrap bowl...theyre still championships wheter you accept it or not...Now go jack off on your little piss towel.
well, the Pittsburgh Power and the Pittsburgh Passion (womens team) both have championships.......so those count for us right?
and we've had a couple semi-pro teams win their championships from the area so those count too right?
oh, and i started a "league" in my neighborhood for backyard games.......my team has won 4yrs running, so those count right?
well hell, if we lower the bar (as cleveland does) to include these quasi leagues then Pittsburgh has something like 83 football championships.
i mean according to you "a championship is a championship" right? hell, add on the 20 or so madden tournaments i've won online and that brings us up over 100 championships. so cleveland is STILL WAYYYYYYYYYYY below the championship curve.
dumb ass.
with all i've heard about Big Ben being a rapist and i go to a online sex offender registry and look up cleveland and Pittsburgh and what do i find? cleveland has a CRAP load more sex offenders (and expecially child molesters) than Pittsburgh.......over 4X as many over all. 2055 of them to Pittsburgh's 421. www.familywatchdog.us better never hear one of you date raping, can't get a woman with my tiny peep unless i hold her down, child molesting hypocrits say anything else about Ben. -
Again. Prime example of a Stooler Fag that thinks Championships didnt count until 1974...A Championship is a Championship regardless if its called the Superbowl or the Jockstrap bowl...theyre still championships wheter you accept it or not...Now go jack off on your little piss towel.
well, the Pittsburgh Power and the Pittsburgh Passion (womens team) both have championships.......so those count for us right?
and we've had a couple semi-pro teams win their championships from the area so those count too right?
oh, and i started a "league" in my neighborhood for backyard games.......my team has won 4yrs running, so those count right?
well hell, if we lower the bar (as cleveland does) to include these quasi leagues then Pittsburgh has something like 83 football championships.
i mean according to you "a championship is a championship" right? hell, add on the 20 or so madden tournaments i've won online and that brings us up over 100 championships. so cleveland is STILL WAYYYYYYYYYYY below the championship curve.
dumb ass.
well, the Pittsburgh Power and the Pittsburgh Passion (womens team) both have championships.......so those count for us right?
and we've had a couple semi-pro teams win their championships from the area so those count too right?
oh, and i started a "league" in my neighborhood for backyard games.......my team has won 4yrs running, so those count right?
well hell, if we lower the bar (as cleveland does) to include these quasi leagues then Pittsburgh has something like 83 football championships.
i mean according to you "a championship is a championship" right? hell, add on the 20 or so madden tournaments i've won online and that brings us up over 100 championships. so cleveland is STILL WAYYYYYYYYYYY below the championship curve.
dumb ass.
I want you to do something. Go look up videos of people talking about football in the 50's and 60's and what it meant to win the championship. See guys with completely messed up hands and fingers pointing each way with scars from broken bones. Listen to them talk about the shear passion they had for the game, how it wasn't about money it was about beating the hell out of the other team. Watch the film of guys barreling into each other with basically useless protection pads and helmets and get up and do it again.
The talent pool was thinner and the teams were less, sure. But the teams who won championships in the history of football merit more respect than anything that is done today. If anyone thinks championships aren't real or shouldn't be counted because "there wasn't many teams" is downright stupid, pompous and lack knowledge of football. In many respects, the championships earned back in the day hold much more weight than anything of the super bowl era. But you can go ahead and feel good about yourself and hide behind the internet, we all know the truth.
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PRE-CHAMPIONSHIP ERA - Era of football that has about much in common with current football as does Rugby. There was no championship game as championships were awarded and disputed, only 3 teams from this era still exist. Teams did not play organized schedules, many played non-league opponents.
1920 - Akron Pros - Akron is NOT Cleveland (defunct franchise)
1922 - Canton Bulldogs - Canton is NOT Cleveland (defunct franchise)
1923 - Canton Bulldogs - Canton is NOT Cleveland (defunct franchise)
1924 - Cleveland Bulldogs - (defunct franchise) Not the same "Bulldogs" Franchise - featured a dispute from the Chicago Franchise
All-America Football League - Defunct league that did not feature a draft - so they were not on the same playing field as a normal professional team. The NFL does NOT recognize these championships. All players were complete free agents - only 2 teams managed to not be defunct.
1946 - AAFC Championship
1947 - AAFC Championship
1948 - AAFC Championship
1949 - AAFC Championship
NFL Championships - Recognized by the NFL as the equivalent of the NFC Championship Game by the NFL Record and Fact Book. Playing Home Games on a rotating schedule gives one team distinct advantage vs. Neutral site game. Also did not have to enter into a playoff system, save for one tie breaker - needed 5 post-season wins for Browns to win 4 NFL Championships.
1945 - Cleveland Rams - The 2nd of 3 Cleveland Franchise to not remain in Cleveland. A more legitimate championship than the AAFC Browns as they had to play by the rules of the rest of the NFL, a more established league featuring a draft.
1950 - NFL Championship (played in Cleveland, not neutral site)
1954 - NFL Championship (played in Cleveland, not neutral site)
1955 - NFL Championship
1964 - NFL Championship (played in Cleveland, not neutral site)
Bottom line Gipper - you are the ONLY person in the world that thinks that any of Cleveland's 13 Championships are remotely close to what the Super Bowl is.
You can have all of those, you don't even know who played for any of those teams, rooted for any of them - even seen highlights of any kind. The rest of the World wants Super Bowls, I can tell you my friends who are Packers and Giants fans don't give a darn about the old championships, they prefer their Super Bowls.
Face it, you are desperate after losing for the majority of your history that you have to take credit for the accomplishments of other franchises.
Again. Prime example of a Stooler Fag that thinks Championships didnt count until 1974...A Championship is a Championship regardless if its called the Superbowl or the Jockstrap bowl...theyre still championships wheter you accept it or not...Now go jack off on your little piss towel.
Again. Prime example of a Stooler Fag that thinks Championships didnt count until 1974...A Championship is a Championship regardless if its called the Superbowl or the Jockstrap bowl...theyre still championships wheter you accept it or not...Now go jack off on your little piss towel.
Typical Stains Failure - this is what makes you the laughingstock of the other NFL franchises and fanbases, well, that and throwing batteries, dog bones and beer bottles onto the field.
Why is it the Giants Super Bowl ring that was leaded featured 4 Lombardi Trophies in the design? Same thing as the Packers last season?
The NFL ITSELF - Source: The NFL Record and Fact Book lists NFL Championships with NFC Championships, same as AFL with AFC. They are STILL CHAMPIONSHIPS. But they did not require a playoff and potentially played on a home field.
Never mind that the Baltimore Colts and Minnesota Vikings won the NFL Championship, and lost the Super Bowl. Which was more significant? By the way, the Browns lost the NFL Championship in both of those years, failing to reach the Super Bowl.
See, this is where you are pathetic - Steelers fans DO NOT discredit NFL Championships prior to 1974. The fact is - the NFL itself, the league in which the teams compete, does not equate them at the same level as the Super Bowl. There is no argument, no room for debate.
If you try to pull out the Pro Football Hall of Fame BS - like your hero Zombo does. The Browns AAFC Championships are no different that the Philadelphia Stars winning the USFL Championship in the eyes of Professional Football. But it is not recognized by the NFL - end of story, period.
I have given nothing but facts, now, on your end - you have a bunch of morons who claim that Steelers fans do not recognize an NFL before 1970, despite being one of 2 franchises with 4 coaches over 50 wins, featured the misfortune of seeing their team attain greatness when Jock Sutherland passed away due to brain cancer right as he finally righted the ship. The fact is, the Steelers history has seen more success than the Browns, who haven't sniffed success save for a 4 year stretch in the late 80s when the rules were circumvented and manipulated by Bernie Kosar so he could play for his hometown team and Ernie Accorsi grabbed up USFL talent.
On your end, you guys desperately stretch for something that you claim that Chuck Noll and Bill Cowher were "Browns guys" - even more laughable because Cowher grew up in Crafton, just outside of Pittsburgh and grew up a Steelers fan. On that logic, the Steelers have Dan Marino and Joe Montana, they grew up in the Pittsburgh area and were Steelers fans, so they are Steelers, according to Browns logic anyway.
The Steelers endured 40 years of bad football, had to re-organize and merge with teams because of WWII, had an owner that loved baseball first and foremost and did not acheive success until his more savvy son took over. Cleveland has seen 1 team go under, another team (that received NO support) leave for LA and another leave for Baltimore - both of which have Super Bowls while the Browns have NONE. For the record, the Browns teams you loved so much, didn't even get 30,000 in attendance for their NFL Championship wins in the 1950s - playing AT HOME. These are facts - not seen through the eyes of a desperate fanbase.
For the record - Steeler Nation is not calling for Hines Ward to be a first ballot Hall of Famer, that is a special honor for a rare level. But, even with the wait - 1000 receptions, 12000 yards, 2nd most post-season receptions all time, 3rd longest consecutive game with a catch streak, Super Bowl MVP, 2 Super Bowl Rings and the single greatest blocker to ever play the position -- football is not played on a computer with numbers, it is played with character, heart, ability and desire.
Close your eyes - imagine the 1987 AFC Championship Game - replace Webster Slaughter with Hines Ward. Do you think Castillo goes completely unblocked, thus causing "the Fumble". Winning games is not a matter of putting up statistics - its a matter of doing everything necessary to win, with both the Glory and the Unglorious. You'd have a Super Bowl win in 1987 if you had Hines Ward istead of a heartbreak because the Browns were better than the Redskins. It was that type of contribution, consistently over 14 years - combined with averaging 85 catches and 1000s yards from 2000-2010 - that were a major reason why the Steelers won 3 AFC Championshps and were the #1 or #2 seed 4 times.
So Gipper, take your ugly and disgusting comparisons to rooting for an NFL team to that of cheering for 9/11 and go shove it. You are dispicable - to anyone who lost a family member in that moment there is nothing funny about it. My best friend was murdered in a home invasion - how about if I compared you to that S.O.B. that shot him -- get it through your thick head there are lines that you don't cross. Zombo, go amuse yourself with your version of humor that if you tried to bring to a Steelers Board like www.steelernation.com, they would beat you down so bad you would need anti-depressants (if you don't take them already - in that case you'd be committed). In fact, I beg you, try it - go there, register - try your BS there - see how long you can last. You won't be banned, because you'll quit coming out of cowardice long before that.
Heck, I don't even try, and I take every one of you to the cleaners every time when comparing the teams. And I don't have to stretch and refer to non-football related garbage like being toothless. I know enough about Cleveland that I could write a book making fun of the people there, but I don't, because it is FOOTBALL, not life, and I have perspective between the two.
By the way, Mike Holmgren is a whiner, egotist and cries when things don't go his way. His history of it is well documented, from how he cried about the Jerry Rice fumble/non-fumble in 1998 and instant replay was reinstated in 1999, to his complaining of Super Bowl XL (any coincidence that after going into halftime complaining about a call that the 2nd play in the 2nd half was a 75 yard TD? -- Interesting how Bill Cowher never put the blame on two teams (Broncos & Patriots) caught and penalized for cheating, nor did he spend a second on the Joe Nedney flop in 2002 playoffs or the Troy Int overturn. Holmgren wanted all the power in GB - to be GM even though it was Ron Wolf that assembled the team including getting Reggie White and trading for Brett Favre - and the latest was his crying over how unfair it was he didn't RGIII in a trade. Yeah, that's great leadership. Turn a blind eye, but if you understand anything about personality and mentality, you'd realize the problems you face going forward.
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squeeler trolls suck bilgewater off the bottom of three rivers for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
blech.
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Again. Prime example of a Stooler Fag that thinks Championships didnt count until 1974...A Championship is a Championship regardless if its called the Superbowl or the Jockstrap bowl...theyre still championships wheter you accept it or not...Now go jack off on your little piss towel.
Typical Stains Failure - this is what makes you the laughingstock of the other NFL franchises and fanbases, well, that and throwing batteries, dog bones and beer bottles onto the field.
Why is it the Giants Super Bowl ring that was leaded featured 4 Lombardi Trophies in the design? Same thing as the Packers last season?
The NFL ITSELF - Source: The NFL Record and Fact Book lists NFL Championships with NFC Championships, same as AFL with AFC. They are STILL CHAMPIONSHIPS. But they did not require a playoff and potentially played on a home field.
Never mind that the Baltimore Colts and Minnesota Vikings won the NFL Championship, and lost the Super Bowl. Which was more significant? By the way, the Browns lost the NFL Championship in both of those years, failing to reach the Super Bowl.
See, this is where you are pathetic - Steelers fans DO NOT discredit NFL Championships prior to 1974. The fact is - the NFL itself, the league in which the teams compete, does not equate them at the same level as the Super Bowl. There is no argument, no room for debate.
If you try to pull out the Pro Football Hall of Fame BS - like your hero Zombo does. The Browns AAFC Championships are no different that the Philadelphia Stars winning the USFL Championship in the eyes of Professional Football. But it is not recognized by the NFL - end of story, period.
I have given nothing but facts, now, on your end - you have a bunch of morons who claim that Steelers fans do not recognize an NFL before 1970, despite being one of 2 franchises with 4 coaches over 50 wins, featured the misfortune of seeing their team attain greatness when Jock Sutherland passed away due to brain cancer right as he finally righted the ship. The fact is, the Steelers history has seen more success than the Browns, who haven't sniffed success save for a 4 year stretch in the late 80s when the rules were circumvented and manipulated by Bernie Kosar so he could play for his hometown team and Ernie Accorsi grabbed up USFL talent.
On your end, you guys desperately stretch for something that you claim that Chuck Noll and Bill Cowher were "Browns guys" - even more laughable because Cowher grew up in Crafton, just outside of Pittsburgh and grew up a Steelers fan. On that logic, the Steelers have Dan Marino and Joe Montana, they grew up in the Pittsburgh area and were Steelers fans, so they are Steelers, according to Browns logic anyway.
The Steelers endured 40 years of bad football, had to re-organize and merge with teams because of WWII, had an owner that loved baseball first and foremost and did not acheive success until his more savvy son took over. Cleveland has seen 1 team go under, another team (that received NO support) leave for LA and another leave for Baltimore - both of which have Super Bowls while the Browns have NONE. For the record, the Browns teams you loved so much, didn't even get 30,000 in attendance for their NFL Championship wins in the 1950s - playing AT HOME. These are facts - not seen through the eyes of a desperate fanbase.
For the record - Steeler Nation is not calling for Hines Ward to be a first ballot Hall of Famer, that is a special honor for a rare level. But, even with the wait - 1000 receptions, 12000 yards, 2nd most post-season receptions all time, 3rd longest consecutive game with a catch streak, Super Bowl MVP, 2 Super Bowl Rings and the single greatest blocker to ever play the position -- football is not played on a computer with numbers, it is played with character, heart, ability and desire.
Close your eyes - imagine the 1987 AFC Championship Game - replace Webster Slaughter with Hines Ward. Do you think Castillo goes completely unblocked, thus causing "the Fumble". Winning games is not a matter of putting up statistics - its a matter of doing everything necessary to win, with both the Glory and the Unglorious. You'd have a Super Bowl win in 1987 if you had Hines Ward istead of a heartbreak because the Browns were better than the Redskins. It was that type of contribution, consistently over 14 years - combined with averaging 85 catches and 1000s yards from 2000-2010 - that were a major reason why the Steelers won 3 AFC Championshps and were the #1 or #2 seed 4 times.
So Gipper, take your ugly and disgusting comparisons to rooting for an NFL team to that of cheering for 9/11 and go shove it. You are dispicable - to anyone who lost a family member in that moment there is nothing funny about it. My best friend was murdered in a home invasion - how about if I compared you to that S.O.B. that shot him -- get it through your thick head there are lines that you don't cross. Zombo, go amuse yourself with your version of humor that if you tried to bring to a Steelers Board like www.steelernation.com, they would beat you down so bad you would need anti-depressants (if you don't take them already - in that case you'd be committed). In fact, I beg you, try it - go there, register - try your BS there - see how long you can last. You won't be banned, because you'll quit coming out of cowardice long before that.
Heck, I don't even try, and I take every one of you to the cleaners every time when comparing the teams. And I don't have to stretch and refer to non-football related garbage like being toothless. I know enough about Cleveland that I could write a book making fun of the people there, but I don't, because it is FOOTBALL, not life, and I have perspective between the two.
By the way, Mike Holmgren is a whiner, egotist and cries when things don't go his way. His history of it is well documented, from how he cried about the Jerry Rice fumble/non-fumble in 1998 and instant replay was reinstated in 1999, to his complaining of Super Bowl XL (any coincidence that after going into halftime complaining about a call that the 2nd play in the 2nd half was a 75 yard TD? -- Interesting how Bill Cowher never put the blame on two teams (Broncos & Patriots) caught and penalized for cheating, nor did he spend a second on the Joe Nedney flop in 2002 playoffs or the Troy Int overturn. Holmgren wanted all the power in GB - to be GM even though it was Ron Wolf that assembled the team including getting Reggie White and trading for Brett Favre - and the latest was his crying over how unfair it was he didn't RGIII in a trade. Yeah, that's great leadership. Turn a blind eye, but if you understand anything about personality and mentality, you'd realize the problems you face going forward.
Typical Stains Failure - this is what makes you the laughingstock of the other NFL franchises and fanbases, well, that and throwing batteries, dog bones and beer bottles onto the field.
Why is it the Giants Super Bowl ring that was leaded featured 4 Lombardi Trophies in the design? Same thing as the Packers last season?
The NFL ITSELF - Source: The NFL Record and Fact Book lists NFL Championships with NFC Championships, same as AFL with AFC. They are STILL CHAMPIONSHIPS. But they did not require a playoff and potentially played on a home field.
Never mind that the Baltimore Colts and Minnesota Vikings won the NFL Championship, and lost the Super Bowl. Which was more significant? By the way, the Browns lost the NFL Championship in both of those years, failing to reach the Super Bowl.
See, this is where you are pathetic - Steelers fans DO NOT discredit NFL Championships prior to 1974. The fact is - the NFL itself, the league in which the teams compete, does not equate them at the same level as the Super Bowl. There is no argument, no room for debate.
If you try to pull out the Pro Football Hall of Fame BS - like your hero Zombo does. The Browns AAFC Championships are no different that the Philadelphia Stars winning the USFL Championship in the eyes of Professional Football. But it is not recognized by the NFL - end of story, period.
I have given nothing but facts, now, on your end - you have a bunch of morons who claim that Steelers fans do not recognize an NFL before 1970, despite being one of 2 franchises with 4 coaches over 50 wins, featured the misfortune of seeing their team attain greatness when Jock Sutherland passed away due to brain cancer right as he finally righted the ship. The fact is, the Steelers history has seen more success than the Browns, who haven't sniffed success save for a 4 year stretch in the late 80s when the rules were circumvented and manipulated by Bernie Kosar so he could play for his hometown team and Ernie Accorsi grabbed up USFL talent.
On your end, you guys desperately stretch for something that you claim that Chuck Noll and Bill Cowher were "Browns guys" - even more laughable because Cowher grew up in Crafton, just outside of Pittsburgh and grew up a Steelers fan. On that logic, the Steelers have Dan Marino and Joe Montana, they grew up in the Pittsburgh area and were Steelers fans, so they are Steelers, according to Browns logic anyway.
The Steelers endured 40 years of bad football, had to re-organize and merge with teams because of WWII, had an owner that loved baseball first and foremost and did not acheive success until his more savvy son took over. Cleveland has seen 1 team go under, another team (that received NO support) leave for LA and another leave for Baltimore - both of which have Super Bowls while the Browns have NONE. For the record, the Browns teams you loved so much, didn't even get 30,000 in attendance for their NFL Championship wins in the 1950s - playing AT HOME. These are facts - not seen through the eyes of a desperate fanbase.
For the record - Steeler Nation is not calling for Hines Ward to be a first ballot Hall of Famer, that is a special honor for a rare level. But, even with the wait - 1000 receptions, 12000 yards, 2nd most post-season receptions all time, 3rd longest consecutive game with a catch streak, Super Bowl MVP, 2 Super Bowl Rings and the single greatest blocker to ever play the position -- football is not played on a computer with numbers, it is played with character, heart, ability and desire.
Close your eyes - imagine the 1987 AFC Championship Game - replace Webster Slaughter with Hines Ward. Do you think Castillo goes completely unblocked, thus causing "the Fumble". Winning games is not a matter of putting up statistics - its a matter of doing everything necessary to win, with both the Glory and the Unglorious. You'd have a Super Bowl win in 1987 if you had Hines Ward istead of a heartbreak because the Browns were better than the Redskins. It was that type of contribution, consistently over 14 years - combined with averaging 85 catches and 1000s yards from 2000-2010 - that were a major reason why the Steelers won 3 AFC Championshps and were the #1 or #2 seed 4 times.
So Gipper, take your ugly and disgusting comparisons to rooting for an NFL team to that of cheering for 9/11 and go shove it. You are dispicable - to anyone who lost a family member in that moment there is nothing funny about it. My best friend was murdered in a home invasion - how about if I compared you to that S.O.B. that shot him -- get it through your thick head there are lines that you don't cross. Zombo, go amuse yourself with your version of humor that if you tried to bring to a Steelers Board like www.steelernation.com, they would beat you down so bad you would need anti-depressants (if you don't take them already - in that case you'd be committed). In fact, I beg you, try it - go there, register - try your BS there - see how long you can last. You won't be banned, because you'll quit coming out of cowardice long before that.
Heck, I don't even try, and I take every one of you to the cleaners every time when comparing the teams. And I don't have to stretch and refer to non-football related garbage like being toothless. I know enough about Cleveland that I could write a book making fun of the people there, but I don't, because it is FOOTBALL, not life, and I have perspective between the two.
By the way, Mike Holmgren is a whiner, egotist and cries when things don't go his way. His history of it is well documented, from how he cried about the Jerry Rice fumble/non-fumble in 1998 and instant replay was reinstated in 1999, to his complaining of Super Bowl XL (any coincidence that after going into halftime complaining about a call that the 2nd play in the 2nd half was a 75 yard TD? -- Interesting how Bill Cowher never put the blame on two teams (Broncos & Patriots) caught and penalized for cheating, nor did he spend a second on the Joe Nedney flop in 2002 playoffs or the Troy Int overturn. Holmgren wanted all the power in GB - to be GM even though it was Ron Wolf that assembled the team including getting Reggie White and trading for Brett Favre - and the latest was his crying over how unfair it was he didn't RGIII in a trade. Yeah, that's great leadership. Turn a blind eye, but if you understand anything about personality and mentality, you'd realize the problems you face going forward.
Herein lies another excuse and useless rant by a spineless Stooler fag that just cant handle the truth...talk about pathetic....and yes...I agree this thread should be closed.
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This is quite possibly the gayest thread I've read on this board. Someone said it earlier, the only championships that matter are last years, and even that only matters until next season begins (which in my opinion starts the day after the Super Bowl.)
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
Look,
here is the deal. It isn't that all that ancient bullshit doesn't deserve respect....... it does.
At the same time, NONE OF IT.......... not one single iota has ANYTHING to do the Lerner era football.
The Ravens are more closely tied to the Paul Brown teams than Lerner's Browns Revision II fabrication are.
Even so, Browns fans are the only fans in the NFL envelope that have to justify their team's accomplishments by pointing shit out that happened before the majority of us were born.
Again, you are all going around here giving bareback blowjobs to what is probably the worst crop of NFL players, rating them with B amd A ratings, never mind at 4 - 12 they ar probably the NFLs worst team.
Who cares WTF happened in teh AAFC? WTF cares about Paul Warfield.............. the Dolphin.
so YOU ARE a steeler's fan.
why don't the mods just forbid any trolling from these people? i guess you guys like confrontation.
and buttfuck hines ward. that bitch.
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**enter the engergizer bunny**
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Why is there still a discussion concerning the pie-faced Steeler cheap-shot artist?!
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Cleveland does have 13 championships.
Count them.
Google Wikipedia, google pro-football-reference, google the pro football Hall of Fame, google The Sporting news, etc. etc. etc. those are just some places you can do your count.
I mean, you think I made shit like that up?
As for the criteria for the HOF for receivers. Did you even bother to read that thread?
Like most ignorant Steeler fans you flap your stupid jaws without even bother to know what it is you are flapping your jaws about.
What I did was to compare stats with contemporaries and to note whose stats were higher.
Or, do you think that things like yards, catches, Touchdowns should not count in HOF consideration?
And at looking at those basic raw statistics in comparison with his contemporaries like Moss, Owens, Harrison, and Bruce, I concluded that Ward is a borderline Hall of Famer. Which, based on those, I believe is an accurate assessment. I continued and said that because he was a part of a couple of Super Bowl Champions that that might enhance his chances.
I also said that his reputation for being dirty, or nasty if you prefer, might work a bit against him.
But who knows because that is mostly subjective.
Now, what is it about the above you take issue with? Can the shit you call brains analyze that info?
PRE-CHAMPIONSHIP ERA - Era of football that has about much in common with current football as does Rugby. There was no championship game as championships were awarded and disputed, only 3 teams from this era still exist. Teams did not play organized schedules, many played non-league opponents.
1920 - Akron Pros - Akron is NOT Cleveland (defunct franchise)
1922 - Canton Bulldogs - Canton is NOT Cleveland (defunct franchise)
1923 - Canton Bulldogs - Canton is NOT Cleveland (defunct franchise)
1924 - Cleveland Bulldogs - (defunct franchise) Not the same "Bulldogs" Franchise - featured a dispute from the Chicago Franchise
All-America Football League - Defunct league that did not feature a draft - so they were not on the same playing field as a normal professional team. The NFL does NOT recognize these championships. All players were complete free agents - only 2 teams managed to not be defunct.
1946 - AAFC Championship
1947 - AAFC Championship
1948 - AAFC Championship
1949 - AAFC Championship
NFL Championships - Recognized by the NFL as the equivalent of the NFC Championship Game by the NFL Record and Fact Book. Playing Home Games on a rotating schedule gives one team distinct advantage vs. Neutral site game. Also did not have to enter into a playoff system, save for one tie breaker - needed 5 post-season wins for Browns to win 4 NFL Championships.
1945 - Cleveland Rams - The 2nd of 3 Cleveland Franchise to not remain in Cleveland. A more legitimate championship than the AAFC Browns as they had to play by the rules of the rest of the NFL, a more established league featuring a draft.
1950 - NFL Championship (played in Cleveland, not neutral site)
1954 - NFL Championship (played in Cleveland, not neutral site)
1955 - NFL Championship
1964 - NFL Championship (played in Cleveland, not neutral site)
Bottom line Gipper - you are the ONLY person in the world that thinks that any of Cleveland's 13 Championships are remotely close to what the Super Bowl is.
You can have all of those, you don't even know who played for any of those teams, rooted for any of them - even seen highlights of any kind. The rest of the World wants Super Bowls, I can tell you my friends who are Packers and Giants fans don't give a darn about the old championships, they prefer their Super Bowls.
Face it, you are desperate after losing for the majority of your history that you have to take credit for the accomplishments of other franchises.
PRE-CHAMPIONSHIP ERA - Era of football that has about much in common with current football as does Rugby. There was no championship game as championships were awarded and disputed, only 3 teams from this era still exist. Teams did not play organized schedules, many played non-league opponents.
1920 - Akron Pros - Akron is NOT Cleveland (defunct franchise)
1922 - Canton Bulldogs - Canton is NOT Cleveland (defunct franchise)
1923 - Canton Bulldogs - Canton is NOT Cleveland (defunct franchise)
1924 - Cleveland Bulldogs - (defunct franchise) Not the same "Bulldogs" Franchise - featured a dispute from the Chicago Franchise
All-America Football League - Defunct league that did not feature a draft - so they were not on the same playing field as a normal professional team. The NFL does NOT recognize these championships. All players were complete free agents - only 2 teams managed to not be defunct.
1946 - AAFC Championship
1947 - AAFC Championship
1948 - AAFC Championship
1949 - AAFC Championship
NFL Championships - Recognized by the NFL as the equivalent of the NFC Championship Game by the NFL Record and Fact Book. Playing Home Games on a rotating schedule gives one team distinct advantage vs. Neutral site game. Also did not have to enter into a playoff system, save for one tie breaker - needed 5 post-season wins for Browns to win 4 NFL Championships.
1945 - Cleveland Rams - The 2nd of 3 Cleveland Franchise to not remain in Cleveland. A more legitimate championship than the AAFC Browns as they had to play by the rules of the rest of the NFL, a more established league featuring a draft.
1950 - NFL Championship (played in Cleveland, not neutral site)
1954 - NFL Championship (played in Cleveland, not neutral site)
1955 - NFL Championship
1964 - NFL Championship (played in Cleveland, not neutral site)
Bottom line Gipper - you are the ONLY person in the world that thinks that any of Cleveland's 13 Championships are remotely close to what the Super Bowl is.
What is a Super Bowl but yet another American Professional Football Championship.
You have listed all the titles. There you are, there are the facts. They are all Northeast Ohio. I live in the Akron/Canton area. I make no distinction. It is all the same sports market. If Aliquippa had an NFL franchise that was defunct that won a title I would count that for Pittsburgh...just like I count the Frankford Yellow Jackets for Philly and the Providence Steamrollers for New England.
The fact that you may not like those facts is not my problem.
Those titles were won under the rules of the competition at the time.
Plain and simple.
You can have all of those, you don't even know who played for any of those teams, rooted for any of them - even seen highlights of any kind. The rest of the World wants Super Bowls, I can tell you my friends who are Packers and Giants fans don't give a darn about the old championships, they prefer their Super Bowls.
Face it, you are desperate after losing for the majority of your history that you have to take credit for the accomplishments of other franchises.
Other franchises? Not sure what you mean by "other franchises". These titles were accomplished by teams located in Northeast Ohio.
Are you geographically impaired?
The only thing that counts is what is accomplished in your home area. The NFL has clearly been subject to too much of the whim of some of its incompetent owners...such that it is only your home town....that matters.
Your logic would be applicable to say if Indianapolis claimed it won yay many titles by the Colts....all but one of which was one in Baltimore.
And, quite frankly, you are wrong about the Packers and Giants fans...at least the Packer fan.
I know because my wife is from Wisconsin and her Dad and other family are Packer fans...and he makes absolutely no distinction between pre-Super Bowl or Post Super Bowl titles.
One of our closest family friends lives on the Fox River overlooking downtown Green Bay. When we visited we take a tour of Lambeau Field.
So go blow smoke up someone else's ass about what the fans of Green Bay do or do not cherish.
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Again. Prime example of a Stooler Fag that thinks Championships didnt count until 1974...A Championship is a Championship regardless if its called the Superbowl or the Jockstrap bowl...theyre still championships wheter you accept it or not...Now go jack off on your little piss towel.
well, the Pittsburgh Power and the Pittsburgh Passion (womens team) both have championships.......so those count for us right?
and we've had a couple semi-pro teams win their championships from the area so those count too right?
oh, and i started a "league" in my neighborhood for backyard games.......my team has won 4yrs running, so those count right?
well hell, if we lower the bar (as cleveland does) to include these quasi leagues then Pittsburgh has something like 83 football championships.
i mean according to you "a championship is a championship" right? hell, add on the 20 or so madden tournaments i've won online and that brings us up over 100 championships. so cleveland is STILL WAYYYYYYYYYYY below the championship curve.
dumb ass.
well, the Pittsburgh Power and the Pittsburgh Passion (womens team) both have championships.......so those count for us right?
Did they play in the NFL, or are they currently an NFL franchise.
Its a pretty simple criteria. Only Steeler fans are too stupid to comprehend it.
The Pros/Bulldogs/Rams won the National Football League Championship.
The Cleveland Browns are a National Football League franchise.
and we've had a couple semi-pro teams win their championships from the area so those count too right?
oh, and i started a "league" in my neighborhood for backyard games.......my team has won 4yrs running, so those count right?
well hell, if we lower the bar (as cleveland does) to include these quasi leagues then Pittsburgh has something like 83 football championships.
i mean according to you "a championship is a championship" right? hell, add on the 20 or so madden tournaments i've won online and that brings us up over 100 championships. so cleveland is STILL WAYYYYYYYYYYY below the championship curve.
dumb ass.
When your semi-pro team or beer league is wins the NFL title...or become NFL franchises, then we will admit that those titles count.
Do you see that happening?
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See, this is where you are pathetic - Steelers fans DO NOT discredit NFL Championships prior to 1974.
Isn't that exactly what you did when you said that the Akron Pros and Canton Bulldogs etc. don't count, cunt?
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This is quite possibly the gayest thread I've read on this board. Someone said it earlier, the only championships that matter are last years, and even that only matters until next season begins (which in my opinion starts the day after the Super Bowl.)
This is quite possibly the gayest thread I've read on this board. Someone said it earlier, the only championships that matter are last years, and even that only matters until next season begins (which in my opinion starts the day after the Super Bowl.)
That was me that said that. And yes, it is true. The fact that I compile more historical data than anyone else here for information purposes does not make that statment of mine any less true.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
Look,
here is the deal. It isn't that all that ancient bullshit doesn't deserve respect....... it does.
At the same time, NONE OF IT.......... not one single iota has ANYTHING to do the Lerner era football.
The Ravens are more closely tied to the Paul Brown teams than Lerner's Browns Revision II fabrication are.
Even so, Browns fans are the only fans in the NFL envelope that have to justify their team's accomplishments by pointing shit out that happened before the majority of us were born.
Again, you are all going around here giving bareback blowjobs to what is probably the worst crop of NFL players, rating them with B amd A ratings, never mind at 4 - 12 they ar probably the NFLs worst team.
Who cares WTF happened in teh AAFC? WTF cares about Paul Warfield.............. the Dolphin.
You apparently care enough to comment on it.
Just because our current ownership sucks swampwater doesn't mean we deny history.
Just because Nagasaki was blow to hell by a nuclear bomb in WWII doesn't mean that the history of Nagasaki as the trading center with Europe or as the center of Confucianism in Japan and the center of the Jesuit missionaries never happened.
And it doesn't mean that the Browns, like Nagasaki, won't be reborn from the ashes of Modell and Lerner either. It'll just take about the same amount of time. Nagasaki was devastated for 20 years until the mid 60s before it started its comeback.
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See, this is where you are pathetic - Steelers fans DO NOT discredit NFL Championships prior to 1974.
Isn't that exactly what you did when you said that the Akron Pros and Canton Bulldogs etc. don't count, cunt?
See, this is where you are pathetic - Steelers fans DO NOT discredit NFL Championships prior to 1974.
Isn't that exactly what you did when you said that the Akron Pros and Canton Bulldogs etc. don't count, cunt?
How ignorant are you really? The NFL itself did not have a championship game from 1920-1932, they did not have a balanced schedule, they did not have an organized league. The NFL of that era bears no resemblance to the one that would exist even 20 years later, to say nothing of today - it was not the full time job of players, it was a barnstorming league and since championships were awarded, no less than 4 were disputed - including to this day the Pottsville Maroons NFL Championship in 1925. You sound like a damn fool - I am referring to actual NFL History, you are desperately trying to make Cleveland stand out as the greatest NFL team of all time - using 5 different teams as one to do it.
Why do you consider Akron and Canton as NE Ohio franchises to be interchangeable with Cleveland? You are the one that keeps saying CLEVELAND has 13 NFL Championships when the history books clearly indicate they do not. NE Ohio is NOT Cleveland. Akron is not Cleveland. Canton is not Cleveland.
It's actually fun, watching you desperately and feebly attempt to legitimize football championships in Cleveland. You embarrass yourself more and more each time.
Here are the facts: the NFL Record and Fact Book lists NFL/AFL Championships prior to the Super Bowl in the same classification as NFC/AFC Championships. What that means is, at best, you have half as many NFL Championships as the Steelers do, and 6 less Super Bowls which - in case you haven't noticed, is what the teams currently play for.
Just look at the Giants Super Bowl ring design - it features 4 Lombardi Trophies on it, signifying the 4 Super Bowls. Green Bay did the same thing last year.
I know it sucks to be you - but you're a pompous ass anyway for the WTC comments - the reality is that you've been rooting for a loser for over 40 years. You accuse Pittsburgh fans of not acknowledging the NFL since 1974, but Cleveland Browns fans like you seem to think the only NFL that matters is what happened before 1964.
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See, this is where you are pathetic - Steelers fans DO NOT discredit NFL Championships prior to 1974.
Isn't that exactly what you did when you said that the Akron Pros and Canton Bulldogs etc. don't count, cunt?
How ignorant are you really? The NFL itself did not have a championship game from 1920-1932, they did not have a balanced schedule, they did not have an organized league. The NFL of that era bears no resemblance to the one that would exist even 20 years later, to say nothing of today - it was not the full time job of players, it was a barnstorming league and since championships were awarded, no less than 4 were disputed - including to this day the Pottsville Maroons NFL Championship in 1925. You sound like a damn fool - I am referring to actual NFL History, you are desperately trying to make Cleveland stand out as the greatest NFL team of all time - using 5 different teams as one to do it.
Why do you consider Akron and Canton as NE Ohio franchises to be interchangeable with Cleveland? You are the one that keeps saying CLEVELAND has 13 NFL Championships when the history books clearly indicate they do not. NE Ohio is NOT Cleveland. Akron is not Cleveland. Canton is not Cleveland.
It's actually fun, watching you desperately and feebly attempt to legitimize football championships in Cleveland. You embarrass yourself more and more each time.
Here are the facts: the NFL Record and Fact Book lists NFL/AFL Championships prior to the Super Bowl in the same classification as NFC/AFC Championships. What that means is, at best, you have half as many NFL Championships as the Steelers do, and 6 less Super Bowls which - in case you haven't noticed, is what the teams currently play for.
Just look at the Giants Super Bowl ring design - it features 4 Lombardi Trophies on it, signifying the 4 Super Bowls. Green Bay did the same thing last year.
I know it sucks to be you - but you're a pompous ass anyway for the WTC comments - the reality is that you've been rooting for a loser for over 40 years. You accuse Pittsburgh fans of not acknowledging the NFL since 1974, but Cleveland Browns fans like you seem to think the only NFL that matters is what happened before 1964.
How ignorant are you really? The NFL itself did not have a championship game from 1920-1932,
So what? They did name Champions.
they did not have a balanced schedule,
The NFL doesn't have a balanced schedule now.
they did not have an organized league.
Of course they had an organized league. Jesus, do you never read anything? What do you think Jim Thorpe and George Halas were doing that day in the Hayes Huppmobile Office? Having a sewing circle? They were organizing a league. If you would like I can take you to the spot it happended.
The NFL of that era bears no resemblance to the one that would exist even 20 years later,
How the fuck would you know? The NFL has been evolving all along. The NFL of 20 years ago doesn't resemble the NFL of Today.
to say nothing of today - it was not the full time job of players, it was a barnstorming league and since championships were awarded, no less than 4 were disputed - including to this day the Pottsville Maroons NFL Championship in 1925.
That was all part of the evolution of the league. And to my knowledge ONLY the one was disputed...by Pottsville. Again, so what? That was the era. I don't know how old you are, but rest assured, the game of today has about as much resemblence to the game of the 70s as the game of the 70s had to the game of the 20s. History happens. I am not sure why you can't handle that fact.
You sound like a damn fool - I am referring to actual NFL History, you are desperately trying to make Cleveland stand out as the greatest NFL team of all time - using 5 different teams as one to do it.
When I list the Championship attributable to a particular market, I use all teams in that market. Cleveland is not the only city to have multiple franchises that have won titles.
Boston/New England (Steamrollers/Pats) has multiple franchises as does: Chicago (Cards/Bear), New York(Giants/Jets), Dallas(Texans/Cowboys), Los Angeles(Rams/Raiders), The Bay area (49ers/Raiders), Philadelphia (Yellow Jackets/Eagle). Note that the Cleveland area isn't the only regione with more than one city named in that region, nor is it the only one with a defunct team..
Why do you consider Akron and Canton as NE Ohio franchises to be interchangeable with Cleveland? You are the one that keeps saying CLEVELAND has 13 NFL Championships when the history books clearly indicate they do not. NE Ohio is NOT Cleveland. Akron is not Cleveland. Canton is not Cleveland.
Why are you so stupid about this? I am counting the "market area", the geographic hub.
Arlington isn't Dallas...East Rutherford isn't New York...Foxboro isn't Boston...Landover MD isn't Washington D.C., Orchard Park isn't Buffalo, Miami Gardens isn't Miami, Pontiac wasn't Detroit, Glendale isn't Phoenix, Anaheim isn't LA, the "San Francisco 49ers" will soon be playing in Santa Clara, 35 miles away. Nashville isn't Tennessee, Minneapolis isn't Minnesota, Arizona isn't Glendale or Phoenix or whatever, New England is a 5 state area.
It's actually fun, watching you desperately and feebly attempt to legitimize football championships in Cleveland. You embarrass yourself more and more each time.
Then apparently the entire cities and states of Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, Boston, Foxboro Providence, New York City, New York State, Buffalo, Orchard Park , Maryland, Landover, the District of Columbia, Nashville, Tennessee, Florida, Miami, Miami Gardens, Minneapolis, St. Paul, Minnesota, Texas, Irving, Arlington, Dallas, Glendale, Phoenix, Arizona, San Francisco, Santa Clara, California etc.etc. must all embarass themselves as well.
Or maybe they just don't have their sphincters puckered quite as tight as you do, nor do they try to spin on the head of a needle worrying about such thing like geographis boundaries like you do.
Here are the facts: the NFL Record and Fact Book lists NFL/AFL Championships prior to the Super Bowl in the same classification as NFC/AFC Championships.
NO, they don't. You are wrong.
What that means is, at best, you have half as many NFL Championships as the Steelers do, and 6 less Super Bowls which - in case you haven't noticed, is what the teams ccurrently play for.
Currently. Operative term. Prior to whenever they played for a championship by some different name. In the future that may change as well.
Evolution...every scientist on earth knows that it is a confirmed fact.
All except of course, stupid, fundamentalist, creationists....like you apparently.
AND GOD CREATED THE EARTH, THE STARS, THE SUN AND THE SEAS ONLY AT SUCH POINT IN TIME THAT THE PITTSBURGH STEELERS BECAME WORTH A SHIT. Stupidicus 9:70
Just look at the Giants Super Bowl ring design - it features 4 Lombardi Trophies on it, signifying the 4 Super Bowls. Green Bay did the same thing last year.
I know it sucks to be you - but you're a pompous ass anyway for the WTC comments - the reality is that you've been rooting for a loser for over 40 years.
That is the only accurate thing you have said in 100 posts. But, someday, the Browns will win. You however, will, apparently always be ignorant.
(and it has been now 48 years. I was 12 when the Browns last won a title. I know in my heart that your sorry sack of shit ass couldn't last as long. What I don't know is if you are a Fairweather fan, or a FRAK. Hopefully the former)
You accuse Pittsburgh fans of not acknowledging the NFL since 1974, but Cleveland Browns fans like you seem to think the only NFL that matters is what happened before 1964.
Where on earth did you get that? We acknowledge everything since 1920....we certainly know the Browns have not won since '64. What fucking board have you been reading?
The thing is: you are hung up on the truth. You can't handle it. Don't know why.
All you need to say is that "we have won 6 titles since 1974(?) and you have won none". And all we can say is "yes, you have".
But, apparently, that is not good enough for you, and I am not sure why.
Clearly an inferiority complex. Maybe in your case justified. (Certainly not in the Steeler's case)
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Designates all 210 Markets in the United States, detailing each county and state for Single Unit and Area Franchise Development Sales. The DMA system is a nationally accepted standard by all Media. The DMA map is an excellent method of awarding territories to area developers and multi-unit Franchisee's.
Designated market areas in the US.
•1 New York 7,493,530 20,093,347 2.68
•2 Los Angeles 5,659,170 17,036,504 3.01
•3 Chicago 3,501,010 9,381,467 2.68
•4 Philadelphia 2,955,190 7,444,967 2.52
•5 Dallas-Ft. Worth 2,544,410 6,786,334 2.67
•6 San Francisco-Oak-San Jose 2,503,400 6,718,840 2.68
•7 Atlanta 2,387,520 6,316,859 2.65
•8 Boston (Manchester) 2,410,180 5,983,812 2.48
•9 Washington, DC (Hagerstown) 2,335,040 5,935,943 2.54
•10 Houston 2,123,460 5,883,467 2.77
•11 Phoenix (Prescott) 1,873,930 4,982,357 2.66
•12 Detroit 1,890,220 4,757,983 2.52
•13 Seattle-Tacoma 1,833,990 4,492,765 2.45
•14 Minneapolis-St. Paul 1,732,050 4,283,492 2.47
•15 Tampa-St. Pete (Sarasota) 1,805,810 4,177,920 2.31
•16 Miami-Ft. Lauderdale 1,538,090 4,104,449 2.67
•17 Denver 1,539,380 3,839,416 2.49
•18 Sacramento-Stockton-Modesto 1,404,580 3,837,728 2.73
•19 Cleveland-Akron (Canton) 1,520,750 3,668,743 2.41
•20 Orlando-Daytona Bch-Melbourne 1,455,620 3,561,548 2.45
•21 St. Louis 1,249,450 3,048,858 2.44
•22 Portland, OR 1,188,770 2,994,368 2.52
•23 San Diego 1,073,390 2,889,035 2.69
•24 Charlotte 1,147,910 2,828,148 2.46
•25 Salt Lake City 944,060 2,826,515 2.99
•26 Raleigh-Durham (Fayetville) 1,107,820 2,726,148 2.46
•27 Baltimore 1,093,170 2,720,118 2.49
•28 Indianapolis 1,119,760 2,704,483 2.42
•29 Pittsburgh 1,154,950 2,663,615 2.31
•30 Nashville 1,019,010 2,483,920 2.44
•31 Hartford & New Haven 1,010,630 2,472,114 2.45
•32 Kansas City 941,360 2,298,002 2.44
•33 Cincinnati 918,670 2,261,716 2.46
•34 San Antonio 830,000 2,259,437 2.72
•35 Milwaukee 901,790 2,183,639 2.42
•36 Columbus, OH 904,030 2,178,783 2.41
•37 Greenvll-Spart-Ashevll-And 865,810 2,039,502 2.36
•38 Las Vegas 721,780 1,889,396 2.62
•39 Grand Rapids-Kalmzoo-B.Crk 740,430 1,878,788 2.54
•40 Harrisburg-Lncstr-Leb-York 743,420 1,820,476 2.45
•41 West Palm Beach-Ft. Pierce 776,080 1,820,181 2.35
•42 Fresno-Visalia 579,180 1,817,626 3.14
•43 Birmingham (Ann and Tusc) 742,140 1,764,377 2.38
•44 Norfolk-Portsmth-Newpt Nws 709,880 1,761,530 2.48
•45 Albuquerque-Santa Fe 694,040 1,746,794 2.52
•46 Austin 678,730 1,743,018 2.57
•47 Memphis 667,660 1,675,981 2.51
•48 Jacksonville 679,120 1,673,528 2.46
•49 Oklahoma City 694,030 1,662,429 2.40
•50 Greensboro-H.Point-W.Salem 691,380 1,644,404 2.38
•51 New Orleans 633,930 1,613,446 2.55
•52 Louisville 668,310 1,595,863 2.39
•53 Providence-New Bedford 619,610 1,512,733 2.44
•54 Buffalo 633,220 1,493,990 2.36
•55 Wilkes Barre-Scranton 593,480 1,401,126 2.36
•56 Little Rock-Pine Bluff 564,490 1,345,718 2.38
•57 Richmond-Petersburg 553,950 1,334,922 2.41
•58 Mobile-Pensacola (Ft Walt) 534,730 1,303,860 2.44
•59 Albany-Schenectady-Troy 554,070 1,293,543 2.33
•60 Tulsa 528,070 1,285,676 2.43
•61 Knoxville 552,380 1,279,507 2.32
•62 Honolulu 433,240 1,214,966 2.80
•63 Lexington 506,340 1,179,226 2.33
•64 Harlingen-Wslco-Brnsvl-McA 354,150 1,174,745 3.32
•65 Charleston-Huntington 501,530 1,159,311 2.31
•66 Ft. Myers-Naples 500,110 1,158,634 2.32
•67 Tucson (Sierra Vista) 465,100 1,142,859 2.46
•68 Dayton 482,590 1,141,851 2.37
•69 Wichita-Hutchinson Plus 452,710 1,118,832 2.47
•70 Flint-Saginaw-Bay City 458,020 1,112,972 2.43
•71 Green Bay-Appleton 443,420 1,061,393 2.39
•72 Roanoke-Lynchburg 461,220 1,047,250 2.27
•73 Spokane 419,350 1,030,644 2.46
•74 Des Moines-Ames 432,310 1,029,792 2.38
•75 Toledo 423,100 1,011,149 2.39
•76 Omaha 410,350 1,006,693 2.45
•77 Springfield, MO 422,740 996,681 2.36
•78 Rochester, NY 392,190 956,197 2.44
•79 Columbia, SC 398,620 953,628 2.39
•80 Shreveport 386,180 944,670 2.45
•81 Portland-Auburn 408,120 942,908 2.31
•82 Huntsville-Decatur (Flor) 390,900 937,374 2.40
•83 Syracuse 385,440 924,612 2.40
•84 El Paso (Las Cruces) 310,760 920,462 2.96
•85 Paducah-Cape Girard-Harsbg 399,690 920,364 2.30
•86 Madison 377,260 898,029 2.38
•87 Champaign&Sprngfld-Decatur 384,620 891,287 2.32
•88 Chattanooga 365,400 882,965 2.42
•89 Waco-Temple-Bryan 339,570 875,399 2.58
•90 Jackson, MS 336,520 852,742 2.53
•91 South Bend-Elkhart 336,130 847,845 2.52
•92 Colorado Springs-Pueblo 334,710 841,679 2.51
•93 Baton Rouge 326,890 829,632 2.54
•94 Cedar Rapids-Wtrlo-IWC&Dub 346,030 817,513 2.36
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