John Derbyshire
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As a group, there is a higher percentage of black people who are successful american professional athletes than white.
Is that a racist statement or not?
WSS
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Also it's not racist to warn white people to stay out of Hawaii after dark, right?
Just wanted to be politically correct you know.
WSS
So basically you agree with those things but don't like the way they were stated?
Stay away from large group who perceive you as different?
Are you okay with stay out of neighborhoods inhabited mostly by people that don't look like you?
In other words this is a style issue for you.
Also it's not racist to warn white people to stay out of Hawaii after dark, right?
Just wanted to be politically correct you know.
WSS
I agree with some of the things, yes. Staying away from large groups of people that I am different from, is absolutely one I would take to heart. Is that racist? A little bit. But whatever, who isn't that racist to this degree? What separates most people from this guy, however, is that he goes 10 steps further and makes it a point to mention the ways blacks are inferior to whites.
And guess what!
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Here is something I would take issue with.
If we are using IQ as a basis of intelligence I would not say vastly.
I recal a study years ago that found slight differences among the races.
WSS
Here is something I would take issue with.
If we are using IQ as a basis of intelligence I would not say vastly.
I recal a study years ago that found slight differences among the races.
WSS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence
There is a shit ton of information there to read on. Careful when they refer to books though. Books =/= Science.
Check out the results of scientific studies as well in the genetics and IQ section. Again, be wary of the results as the tables presented are from single papers. There's no consensus on whether or not genetics affects intelligence. I would think that it would have some effect, but I doubt there'd be a significant difference between people of differing ethnic backgrounds due just to genetics. There are just wayyyyyyy too many confounding factors, especially the brain. How the hell do you separate what is caused by genetics from what is caused by environment? Plus, we don't even know what genes make people intelligent. There are decades of work to be done before we have a real grasp of what's going on.
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Any time something good happens to black people because they are black, that's racist
Any time something bad happens to black people because they are black, that's not racist
Any time a white person gets in trouble for talking about blacks, they are not racist but everyone else is
I agree with the elderly on this board. BLACK PEOPLE ARE SCARY!
Any time something good happens to black people because they are black, that's racist
Any time something bad happens to black people because they are black, that's not racist
Any time a white person gets in trouble for talking about blacks, they are not racist but everyone else is
I agree with the elderly on this board. BLACK PEOPLE ARE SCARY!
Children should be seen and not heard. Go to bed.
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Steve, do you think the Derbyshire column espouses racist beliefs?
Like I said.
I do not believe that race is solely responsible in the slight iq differences.
I do think it's wise to be cautious in general in the situations he describes.
And if woody wouldn't be nervous in downtown detroit, hough or the south bronx he's an idiot.
And maybe you are right. Maybe it's just the lack of funding for social programs that causes the problem.
Nonetheless the problem exists.
And braying the word racism over and over and over hasn't seemed to help yet.
Neither has pretending it doesn't happen.
Neither has over reacting to every situation like the martin case.
WSS
Like I said.
I do not believe that race is solely responsible in the slight iq differences.
I do think it's wise to be cautious in general in the situations he describes.
WSS
But that's not what the column is saying, or why it's being described as racist.
I was just wondering how explicitly someone would have to say, "Blacks are inferior to whites and you should avoid them, especially in numbers" before you would call it racist. Apparently, this isn't explicit enough.
Perhaps I'll post all the responses from his co-workers at the National Review since you can't take it from me without pretending this is about social programs, or whatever else.
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As a group, there is a higher percentage of black people who are successful american professional athletes than white.
Is that a racist statement or not?
WSS
As a group, there is a higher percentage of black people who are successful american professional athletes than white.
Is that a racist statement or not?
WSS
No.
I'd also think it may not even be true. You'd have some sports where it was, but looking at, say, hockey or lacrosse or swimming or ice skating or skiing or tennis wouldn't give you the same picture.
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Rich Lowry:
Anyone who has read Derb in our pages knows he’s a deeply literate, funny, and incisive writer. I direct anyone who doubts his talents to his delightful first novel, “Seeing Calvin Coolidge in a Dream,” or any one of his “Straggler” columns in the books section of NR. Derb is also maddening, outrageous, cranky, and provocative. His latest provocation, in a webzine, lurches from the politically incorrect to the nasty and indefensible. We never would have published it, but the main reason that people noticed it is that it is by a National Review writer. Derb is effectively using our name to get more oxygen for views with which we’d never associate ourselves otherwise. So there has to be a parting of the ways. Derb has long danced around the line on these issues, but this column is so outlandish it constitutes a kind of letter of resignation. It’s a free country, and Derb can write whatever he wants, wherever he wants. Just not in the pages of NR or NRO, or as someone associated with NR any longer.
John Barro:
Conservatives so often get unfairly pounded on race because, so often, conservatives get fairly pounded on race. And this is the Right’s own fault, because conservatives are not serious about draining the swamp. ... My challenge to conservatives who feel they get a bum rap on race is this. Stand up for yourself and your colleagues when you feel that a criticism is unfair. At the same time, criticize other conservatives who say racist things, cynically tolerate racism in the Republican base, or deny the mere existence of racial issues in America today. The conservative movement desperately needs self-policing on racial issues, if it ever hopes to have credibility on them.
Jason Lee Steorts:
In 2010, John Derbyshire gave remarks on the race/IQ question in which he said this: “Group differences are statistical truths. They exist in an abstract realm quite far removed from our everyday personal experience. They tell you nothing about the person you just met.”
John’s recent column abandons that principle. It gives practical advice (think twice about voting for a black politician; do not be a Good Samaritan to blacks; and much more) according to which each individual black person should start out at a kind of deficit. We see John’s departure from his stated view of 2010, as well, in the recent column’s hyperlinks. For example, on not being a Good Samaritan, John offers an article about a black man who, while beating up his girlfriend, stomped to death a white man who tried to defend her. There are many abusive people of all races, and many of them would attack any third party who intervened to stop the abuse. The statistics John cites do not even begin to justify the notion that the individual in this case acted as he did because he was black; but John is perfectly happy to make that assumption. This move from the abstract and statistical to the very personal is the most overtly racist aspect of the column, to my mind, and I think John’s defenders are failing to register it.
I think they are also insufficiently troubled by John’s readiness to assume that statistical differences between races — e.g. between their incarceration rates or average scores on IQ tests — are due to innate psychological and cognitive differences. The causation is hotly disputed, but John has always seemed interested in only one explanation — or, at a minimum, he has seemed startlingly uninterested in telling us why he finds that explanation the most compelling.
I share Mark’s frustration with the selectivity of our culture’s racial outrage, and his alarm over the manner in which political correctness restricts the bounds of discourse and thought; but neither point strikes me as a good reason for NR to affiliate itself with a writer who expresses genuinely racist sentiments. (Two wrongs don’t make a right &c.) At the same time, there is something thuggish, not to mention insecure, in the mob’s expectation that a head be thrown to it without any discussion of the nature of the offense, and in its refusal to entertain any possibility of forgiveness.
Human beings are complicated. It is possible for good people to have deep flaws, and for traits utterly worthy of condemnation to exist alongside admirable ones. And so I will end by saying that in my personal dealings with him I have always found John to be thoughtful and kind, that some of his work (for instance his novel Seeing Calvin Coolidge in a Dream, which Rich has mentioned) expresses a deep and generous humanity, and that I will sorely miss his column “The Straggler” in NR’s books section.
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As a group, there is a higher percentage of black people who are successful american professional athletes than white.
Is that a racist statement or not?
WSS
No.
I'd also think it may not even be true. You'd have some sports where it was, but looking at, say, hockey or lacrosse or swimming or ice skating or skiing or tennis wouldn't give you the same picture.
No.
I'd also think it may not even be true. You'd have some sports where it was, but looking at, say, hockey or lacrosse or swimming or ice skating or skiing or tennis wouldn't give you the same picture.
Oh I thought of that. Hence the successful and american but you know what I mean. I'd imagine the highest paid athletes on this earth for football and basketball players.
But do you think there might be something physiological that would make, for instance, the guy from kenya the distance running champ year after year?
WSS
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No.
I'd also think it may not even be true. You'd have some sports where it was, but looking at, say, hockey or lacrosse or swimming or ice skating or skiing or tennis wouldn't give you the same picture.
Oh I thought of that. Hence the successful and american but you know what I mean. I'd imagine the highest paid athletes on this earth for football and basketball players.
But do you think there might be something physiological that would make, for instance, the guy from kenya the distance running champ year after year?
WSS
Oh I thought of that. Hence the successful and american but you know what I mean. I'd imagine the highest paid athletes on this earth for football and basketball players.
But do you think there might be something physiological that would make, for instance, the guy from kenya the distance running champ year after year?
WSS
Well, sure, they think so. But the reason Kenyans dominate marathon running isn't because they're black. There are lots of countries with black athletes in them. Why do Kenyans specifically dominate marathons? It's got to do with the running culture and the altitude and the training regiment as well.
Why do Russians dominate in hockey?
If blacks are inherently better athletes, why does the one sports that is played equally around the world, soccer, not dominated by African countries? They're competitive, of course, but the dominant teams are from Brazil and Argentina and Spain and Italy.
Also, what are you getting at? Because there are physiological differences between the races you should be able to ...what? You're trying to go down a rabbit hole.
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Like I said.
I do not believe that race is solely responsible in the slight iq differences.
I do think it's wise to be cautious in general in the situations he describes.
WSS
But that's not what the column is saying, or why it's being described as racist.
I was just wondering how explicitly someone would have to say, "Blacks are inferior to whites and you should avoid them, especially in numbers" before you would call it racist. Apparently, this isn't explicit enough.
Perhaps I'll post all the responses from his co-workers at the National Review since you can't take it from me without pretending this is about social programs, or whatever else.
But that's not what the column is saying, or why it's being described as racist.
I was just wondering how explicitly someone would have to say, "Blacks are inferior to whites and you should avoid them, especially in numbers" before you would call it racist. Apparently, this isn't explicit enough.
Perhaps I'll post all the responses from his co-workers at the National Review since you can't take it from me without pretending this is about social programs, or whatever else.
Whether it conforms to your definition of racism or not the numbers are what they are.
Do you think it's a patently ridiculous idea that large group of blacks might have inherent danger for white people? Do you think a group of hip hop black teens should probably avoid bensonhurst ?
WSS
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And if it's not about social programs, meaning that you don't think that they would make a significant improvement, to what do you ascribe the differences?
Poverty alone? Culture? Availability of education?
WSS
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But that's not what the column is saying, or why it's being described as racist.
I was just wondering how explicitly someone would have to say, "Blacks are inferior to whites and you should avoid them, especially in numbers" before you would call it racist. Apparently, this isn't explicit enough.
Perhaps I'll post all the responses from his co-workers at the National Review since you can't take it from me without pretending this is about social programs, or whatever else.
Whether it conforms to your definition of racism or not the numbers are what they are.
Do you think it's a patently ridiculous idea that large group of blacks might have inherent danger for white people? Do you think a group of hip hop black teens should probably avoid bensonhurst ?
WSS
Whether it conforms to your definition of racism or not the numbers are what they are.
Do you think it's a patently ridiculous idea that large group of blacks might have inherent danger for white people? Do you think a group of hip hop black teens should probably avoid bensonhurst ?
WSS
Again, the numbers from studies of racial disparities in IQ studies are not the point, which you're clearly missing. That's not the racist part of the article, even though his figures are disputed in other studies. After all, in those studies, Jews and Asians post higher IQs than whites.
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Just tell me: you don't seem to have any problems with this article. Is that true?
You don't think this is a clear example of racism? You think it's just someone telling the hard truths about black people?
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It's the truth about the world heck. Something you have no idea about in your liberal sheltered place.
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It's the truth about the world heck. Something you have no idea about in your liberal sheltered place.
It's the truth about the world heck. Something you have no idea about in your liberal sheltered place.
I'll try to adjust.
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It's the truth about the world heck. Something you have no idea about in your liberal sheltered place.
It's the truth about the world heck. Something you have no idea about in your liberal sheltered place.y
This is a ridiculous statement that makes it seem like you were raised on a whites only religious nutjob compound. What, specifically, in this article tells you the secret truths of the world? That you are better than the blacks, and you shouldn't stop to help one stranded on the road? Fuck 'em right? Serves 'em right for being born black.
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It's always so fun to read conservative after conservative say there no problem with racism, and the only problem is when liberals claim there is racism, or reverse-racism, and then come in here and listen to five different guys, all conservative, tell you why black people really are inferior, scary, and probably criminals.
"My challenge to conservatives who feel they get a bum rap on race is this. Stand up for yourself and your colleagues when you feel that a criticism is unfair. At the same time, criticize other conservatives who say racist things, cynically tolerate racism in the Republican base, or deny the mere existence of racial issues in America today. The conservative movement desperately needs self-policing on racial issues, if it ever hopes to have credibility on them."
Good luck with that.
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It's always so fun to read conservative after conservative say there no problem with racism, and the only problem is when liberals claim there is racism, or reverse-racism, and then come in here and listen to five different guys, all conservative, tell you why black people really are inferior, scary, and probably criminals.
"My challenge to conservatives who feel they get a bum rap on race is this. Stand up for yourself and your colleagues when you feel that a criticism is unfair. At the same time, criticize other conservatives who say racist things, cynically tolerate racism in the Republican base, or deny the mere existence of racial issues in America today. The conservative movement desperately needs self-policing on racial issues, if it ever hopes to have credibility on them."
Good luck with that.
It's always so fun to read conservative after conservative say there no problem with racism, and the only problem is when liberals claim there is racism, or reverse-racism, and then come in here and listen to five different guys, all conservative, tell you why black people really are inferior, scary, and probably criminals.
Huh? where do you get that? In fact some of the posts I read here includes those of your political ilk to agree with some of Derbyshires recommendations to his kids? ( statistical common sense 10a & 10b - you did check out his links?) In fact 1 through 10 seemed perfectly normal to me.
ives who feel they get a bum rap on race is this. Stand up for yourself and your colleagues when you feel that a criticism is unfair. At the same time, criticize other conservatives who say racist things, cynically tolerate racism in the Republican base, or deny the mere existence of racial issues in America today. The conservative movement desperately needs self-policing on racial issues, if it ever hopes to have credibility on them."
Good luck with that.
lol like we think YOU libs have the answer here! And such MORAL high ground you stand on! Let me tell you something, credibility starts when you are honest enough to state the facts and not cower from them. The party you represent corners the market on being POLITICALLY CORRECT . And the narrative of the day seems to be the correct speech given and in this case, getting fired for not complying with being PC.
Remember when R Limbaugh on ESPN way back in 2003 said he thought Donovan McNabb was overrated? Oh such racism for saying such a thing...he was fired from espn....
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Huh? where do you get that? In fact some of the posts I read here includes those of your political ilk to agree with some of Derbyshires recommendations to his kids? ( statistical common sense 10a & 10b - you did check out his links?) In fact 1 through 10 seemed perfectly normal to me.
You're referring to my thoughts on 10a and 10b. While I might practice those things in context with large groups of black people, the reason I'm doing it isn't because they're black. The reason I'm doing it is because I'm not. It's because I'm different. I'd do the same thing in Hawaii with native islanders (even though I'm of Pacific Islander descent). I'd do the same thing with white countryfolk. Their color doesn't make a lick of difference to me, but mine might to them.
Packs of people can be irrational and dangerous. I'd prefer to not stick out like a sore thumb. Do you think that this puts me on the same level as this guy?
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raised by these people
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