Look Into The Future For A Thread Of Hope.
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Standard cover for shitty talent. The same excuse that always gets a coach shipped out too early. I don't know if Shurmer is the guy but if he isn't here for at least 4 years then the FO has failed more for making another coaching change than they have for making a bad hire. We can't keep doing 2 years and done.
I am not in favor of ditching Shurmur. But, if we were making a fantasy draft of the head coaches who do you think would be pegged in the top of the round.
Go ahead list the order you think the HCs of the NFL would be taken if a fantasy draft of them were held:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
Rest assured P.o.S. would be down here somewhere (what is his middle name? Until that is know P.O.S. seems apt.)
I am not in favor of ditching Shurmur. But, if we were making a fantasy draft of the head coaches who do you think would be pegged in the top of the round.
Go ahead list the order you think the HCs of the NFL would be taken if a fantasy draft of them were held:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
Rest assured P.o.S. would be down here somewhere (what is his middle name? Until that is know P.O.S. seems apt.)
Ummmmm about 12 different coaches that were actually given time to show they were good coaches. Take all the coaches in the NFL and based off their first season make a list. Harbaughs at the top but some of the best coaches in the league had really shit first and even second season.
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This comment always makes me laugh.
then you laugh in the face of logic sir. 🥷
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I heard Brian Billick on the radio today saying the same thing regarding Tannehill...he thinks he's a huge reach in the top 10 of the first round. This is the 2nd time I've heard this from a "expert" which is enough for me to be convinced that I really really hope that we don't pick him at #4.
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Again, Shurmur was a first year coach and will have a lot of input from Childress on the playcalling in the planning and during the game. I agree, in terrible circumstances, that Shurmur did not thrive. But this was his FIRST YEAR as a head coach (with no offseason). Hopefully he'll get better. We really dont know what goes on behind the scenes with the playcalling and hiring of an O coordinator as well. Lets give him a shot. He didnt have a shot last year.
And I am in favor of bringing back Colt as the QB.
He did have a shot last year. He was given the same shot as every other coach in the leauge. My biggest problem is that he never deserved to be given the head coaching job in the first place, and has so far proven he doesn't deserve the job. He was an offensive coordinator for 2 whole years with the Rams. His first year with the Rams they went 1-15. His "break-out" season was a 7-9 record with the number one overall pick in arguably the worst division in NFL history. Remember the Seahawks won that division with a losing record at 7-9. I lived in St Louis in 2010 and saw every game. It was the same extremely conservative offense that we saw last year. The only reason, I repeat the only reason the Rams won 7 games that year is because they got to play the 8 games against the pitiful NFC west and even then were only able to go .500.
That Rams team beat the 6-10 Redskins, the 7-9 Seahawks, the 9-7 Chargers, the 2-14 Panthers, the 4-12 Broncos, the 5-11, Cardinals, and the 6-10 49ers. They lost to the Cardinals, the 8-8 Raiders, the 6-10 Lions (by a score of 44-6,) the 10-6 Bucs, the 49ers, the 13-3 Falcons, the 11-5 Saints, the 10-6 Chiefs, and finally a loss to the Seahawks in week 17 for a chance to go to the playoffs. The most that Rams team scored was 36, broke 30 twice, scored in the 20's five times, scored in the teens 7 times, and were held to single digits twice. They only beat one team with a winning record in the Chargers and lost to 4 teams (Lions, Cardinals, 49ers, and Seahawks) with equal or lesser records then their own. As far as leauge rankings go the Rams were 26th in total offense, 26th in scoring, 21st in passing offense and 25th in rushing offense with a franchise QB, RB, and a break out year from Danny Amendola (a poor man's Wes Welker.) That's more talent then the Browns have yet he still couldn't put up even average offensive stats.
He clearly did not get the head coaching job based on merit. He was most successful as the QB coach for the Eagles from 02-08. Now let me ask you do you think he was calling the plays at that time under Andy Reid? No he wasn't. He was hired due to his uncle, Fitz, who was the defensive coordinator under Holmgren at Seattle. It was flat out a shitty hire. If we didn't hire him last year and he stayed with the Rams I guarantee he would've lost his job this offseason with Spagnuolo and would more then likely return to being a QB coach if he was lucky.
Continuity is only good if you have a capable coach at the helm. We don't. We have a unproven offensive coordinator given a head coaching job who's only been able to prove that he can mastermind a below average offense. If he was a defensive minded coach it would be somewhat understandable but Shumur is not. If our offense plays like they did last year (which is more likely then not) Shumur and Holmgren have to go. Shumur for impeding the development of the young talent we have and will get in the upcoming draft and Holmgren for hiring his buddy's nephew to a job he was ill prepared and qualified for.
Continuity is only good if you have a capable coach at the helm. We don't. We have a unproven offensive coordinator given a head coaching job who's only been able to prove that he can mastermind a below average offense. If he was a defensive minded coach it would be somewhat understandable but Shumur is not. If our offense plays like they did last year (which is more likely then not) Shumur and Holmgren have to go. Shumur for impeding the development of the young talent we have and will get in the upcoming draft and Holmgren for hiring his buddy's nephew to a job he was ill prepared and qualified for.
^+1 Shurmur's playcaling last year made Belichick's "Metcalf up the Middle" look like genius.
Yes, some "great" coaches had lousy first years, but I don't think any of them looked as clueless and lost as Shurmur did.
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i don't see us winning more than 11 games regardless of who that first pick is. (But if it is Tannehill, i'm dropping my season tickets.)
I don't see us winning for than 5 games no matter who we draft. What would make anyone think 11 games is a reasonable number? The Browns aren't the only team drafting players. Everyone else will add talent too and our gap is still far too big to make a run at the playoffs. Especially in the AFC North.
I don't see us winning for than 5 games no matter who we draft. What would make anyone think 11 games is a reasonable number? The Browns aren't the only team drafting players. Everyone else will add talent too and our gap is still far too big to make a run at the playoffs. Especially in the AFC North.
i stand by my prediction. i've nailed it every year since 1999.
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Again, Shurmur was a first year coach and will have a lot of input from Childress on the playcalling in the planning and during the game. I agree, in terrible circumstances, that Shurmur did not thrive. But this was his FIRST YEAR as a head coach (with no offseason). Hopefully he'll get better. We really dont know what goes on behind the scenes with the playcalling and hiring of an O coordinator as well. Lets give him a shot. He didnt have a shot last year.
And I am in favor of bringing back Colt as the QB.
He did have a shot last year. He was given the same shot as every other coach in the leauge. My biggest problem is that he never deserved to be given the head coaching job in the first place, and has so far proven he doesn't deserve the job. He was an offensive coordinator for 2 whole years with the Rams. His first year with the Rams they went 1-15. His "break-out" season was a 7-9 record with the number one overall pick in arguably the worst division in NFL history. Remember the Seahawks won that division with a losing record at 7-9. I lived in St Louis in 2010 and saw every game. It was the same extremely conservative offense that we saw last year. The only reason, I repeat the only reason the Rams won 7 games that year is because they got to play the 8 games against the pitiful NFC west and even then were only able to go .500.
That Rams team beat the 6-10 Redskins, the 7-9 Seahawks, the 9-7 Chargers, the 2-14 Panthers, the 4-12 Broncos, the 5-11, Cardinals, and the 6-10 49ers. They lost to the Cardinals, the 8-8 Raiders, the 6-10 Lions (by a score of 44-6,) the 10-6 Bucs, the 49ers, the 13-3 Falcons, the 11-5 Saints, the 10-6 Chiefs, and finally a loss to the Seahawks in week 17 for a chance to go to the playoffs. The most that Rams team scored was 36, broke 30 twice, scored in the 20's five times, scored in the teens 7 times, and were held to single digits twice. They only beat one team with a winning record in the Chargers and lost to 4 teams (Lions, Cardinals, 49ers, and Seahawks) with equal or lesser records then their own. As far as leauge rankings go the Rams were 26th in total offense, 26th in scoring, 21st in passing offense and 25th in rushing offense with a franchise QB, RB, and a break out year from Danny Amendola (a poor man's Wes Welker.) That's more talent then the Browns have yet he still couldn't put up even average offensive stats.
He clearly did not get the head coaching job based on merit. He was most successful as the QB coach for the Eagles from 02-08. Now let me ask you do you think he was calling the plays at that time under Andy Reid? No he wasn't. He was hired due to his uncle, Fitz, who was the defensive coordinator under Holmgren at Seattle. It was flat out a shitty hire. If we didn't hire him last year and he stayed with the Rams I guarantee he would've lost his job this offseason with Spagnuolo and would more then likely return to being a QB coach if he was lucky.
Continuity is only good if you have a capable coach at the helm. We don't. We have a unproven offensive coordinator given a head coaching job who's only been able to prove that he can mastermind a below average offense. If he was a defensive minded coach it would be somewhat understandable but Shumur is not. If our offense plays like they did last year (which is more likely then not) Shumur and Holmgren have to go. Shumur for impeding the development of the young talent we have and will get in the upcoming draft and Holmgren for hiring his buddy's nephew to a job he was ill prepared and qualified for.
He did have a shot last year. He was given the same shot as every other coach in the leauge. My biggest problem is that he never deserved to be given the head coaching job in the first place, and has so far proven he doesn't deserve the job. He was an offensive coordinator for 2 whole years with the Rams. His first year with the Rams they went 1-15. His "break-out" season was a 7-9 record with the number one overall pick in arguably the worst division in NFL history. Remember the Seahawks won that division with a losing record at 7-9. I lived in St Louis in 2010 and saw every game. It was the same extremely conservative offense that we saw last year. The only reason, I repeat the only reason the Rams won 7 games that year is because they got to play the 8 games against the pitiful NFC west and even then were only able to go .500.
That Rams team beat the 6-10 Redskins, the 7-9 Seahawks, the 9-7 Chargers, the 2-14 Panthers, the 4-12 Broncos, the 5-11, Cardinals, and the 6-10 49ers. They lost to the Cardinals, the 8-8 Raiders, the 6-10 Lions (by a score of 44-6,) the 10-6 Bucs, the 49ers, the 13-3 Falcons, the 11-5 Saints, the 10-6 Chiefs, and finally a loss to the Seahawks in week 17 for a chance to go to the playoffs. The most that Rams team scored was 36, broke 30 twice, scored in the 20's five times, scored in the teens 7 times, and were held to single digits twice. They only beat one team with a winning record in the Chargers and lost to 4 teams (Lions, Cardinals, 49ers, and Seahawks) with equal or lesser records then their own. As far as leauge rankings go the Rams were 26th in total offense, 26th in scoring, 21st in passing offense and 25th in rushing offense with a franchise QB, RB, and a break out year from Danny Amendola (a poor man's Wes Welker.) That's more talent then the Browns have yet he still couldn't put up even average offensive stats.
He clearly did not get the head coaching job based on merit. He was most successful as the QB coach for the Eagles from 02-08. Now let me ask you do you think he was calling the plays at that time under Andy Reid? No he wasn't. He was hired due to his uncle, Fitz, who was the defensive coordinator under Holmgren at Seattle. It was flat out a shitty hire. If we didn't hire him last year and he stayed with the Rams I guarantee he would've lost his job this offseason with Spagnuolo and would more then likely return to being a QB coach if he was lucky.
Continuity is only good if you have a capable coach at the helm. We don't. We have a unproven offensive coordinator given a head coaching job who's only been able to prove that he can mastermind a below average offense. If he was a defensive minded coach it would be somewhat understandable but Shumur is not. If our offense plays like they did last year (which is more likely then not) Shumur and Holmgren have to go. Shumur for impeding the development of the young talent we have and will get in the upcoming draft and Holmgren for hiring his buddy's nephew to a job he was ill prepared and qualified for.
Bravo! i don't think anyone can sum it up better than that.
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If our offense plays like they did last year (which is more likely then not) Shumur and Holmgren have to go. Shumur for impeding the development of the young talent we have and will get in the upcoming draft and Holmgren for hiring his buddy's nephew to a job he was ill prepared and qualified for.
mangini never should have been fire, period. but that's an argument for another thread.
my fear with holmgren and shurmur getting fired is that they'll drag the good people on staff down the drain with them i.e. heckertt, jauron and then....hmmm..........?????
mangini never should have been fire, period. but that's an argument for another thread.
Holler if you need a wingman...
^+1Yes, some "great" coaches had lousy first years, but I don't think any of them looked as clueless and lost as Shurmur did.
Agree... and it's not just the X's and O's... it's the leadership or rather the lack of it...
@king-ghoolie-lives said:
Excellent, excellent post. I have made this same exact point before and nobody wants to hear it. Also remember, we still have to prove that we can draft better than the Ravens, Steelers and Bengals. And that's who we need to make up ground on.I think Colt is the weakest link, even with some weaponse, 4 -6 wins is a reasonable expectation.
While I won't hang it on Colt, as I still have hope that the lad can be an effective NFL QB, I agree with the bottom line... namely the W total is likely headed for the 4-6 range... again...
As for not wanting to hear you... when you choose to make rational posts I think we all hear you. We may still disagree, but we hear you. On the other hand when you go off on one of your rants... not so much...
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Hey Brownies, let's play a little game here. I say that the Browns are gonna stay at the 4 spot and take a playmaker there. We have Trent Richardson. We have Justin Blackmon. We have Morris Claiborn and Ryan Tannihill. This is our upcoming opponents:
Week 1 Sunday 9/9/2012 Bengals @ Browns CBS 1:00 PM
Week 2 Sunday 9/16/2012 Browns @ Giants CBS 1:00 PM
Week 3 Sunday 9/23/2012 Browns @ Cowboys CBS 4:15 PM
Week 4 Thursday 9/27/2012 Ravens @ Browns NFLN 8:20 PM
Week 5 Sunday 10/7/2012 Browns @ Broncos CBS 4:15 PM
Week 6 Sunday 10/14/2012 Chargers @ Browns CBS 1:00 PM
Week 7 Sunday 10/21/2012 Redskins @ Browns FOX 1:00 PM
Week 8 Sunday 10/28/2012 Browns @ Steelers CBS 1:00 PM
Week 9 Monday 11/5/2012 Eagles @ Browns ESPN 8:30 PM
Week 10 BYE
Week 11 Sunday 11/18/2012 Bills @ Browns CBS 1:00 PM
Week 12 Sunday 11/25/2012 Steelers @ Browns CBS 1:00 PM
Week 13 Sunday 12/2/2012 Browns @ Bengals CBS 1:00 PM
Week 14 Sunday 12/9/2012 Browns @ Raiders CBS 4:15 PM
Week 15 Sunday 12/16/2012 Browns @ Colts CBS 1:00 PM
Week 16 Sunday 12/23/2012 Chiefs @ Browns CBS 1:00 PM
Week 17 Sunday 12/30/2012 Browns @ Ravens CBS 1:00 PM
Predict what our record would be if we took each player. I'll start...
Browns with Richardson: 11-5
Browns with Blackmon: 8-8
Browns with Claiborn: 7-9
Browns with Tannihill: 5-11
What's your call?
It hasn't been confirmed yet that this is the schedule, has it?
It hasn't been confirmed yet that this is the schedule, has it?
I was wondering if anyone caught that. The 2012 NFL has not been released yet,usally out right before the draft. Either way another growing pain year 7 wins tops. I would not mind being wrong but 8 or more wins would be a strech.
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Firing Mangini was the right move but was done a year too late. Hiring Shurmur was the wrong move. Firing Shurmur now would be an even worse move. By the way, how can you predict records before the draft even happens? I know many of you will say that the Browns won't get significantly better no matter who they draft but it would be nice to wait and see.
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Again, Shurmur was a first year coach and will have a lot of input from Childress on the playcalling in the planning and during the game. I agree, in terrible circumstances, that Shurmur did not thrive. But this was his FIRST YEAR as a head coach (with no offseason). Hopefully he'll get better. We really dont know what goes on behind the scenes with the playcalling and hiring of an O coordinator as well. Lets give him a shot. He didnt have a shot last year.
And I am in favor of bringing back Colt as the QB.
He did have a shot last year. He was given the same shot as every other coach in the leauge. My biggest problem is that he never deserved to be given the head coaching job in the first place, and has so far proven he doesn't deserve the job. He was an offensive coordinator for 2 whole years with the Rams. His first year with the Rams they went 1-15. His "break-out" season was a 7-9 record with the number one overall pick in arguably the worst division in NFL history. Remember the Seahawks won that division with a losing record at 7-9. I lived in St Louis in 2010 and saw every game. It was the same extremely conservative offense that we saw last year. The only reason, I repeat the only reason the Rams won 7 games that year is because they got to play the 8 games against the pitiful NFC west and even then were only able to go .500.
That Rams team beat the 6-10 Redskins, the 7-9 Seahawks, the 9-7 Chargers, the 2-14 Panthers, the 4-12 Broncos, the 5-11, Cardinals, and the 6-10 49ers. They lost to the Cardinals, the 8-8 Raiders, the 6-10 Lions (by a score of 44-6,) the 10-6 Bucs, the 49ers, the 13-3 Falcons, the 11-5 Saints, the 10-6 Chiefs, and finally a loss to the Seahawks in week 17 for a chance to go to the playoffs. The most that Rams team scored was 36, broke 30 twice, scored in the 20's five times, scored in the teens 7 times, and were held to single digits twice. They only beat one team with a winning record in the Chargers and lost to 4 teams (Lions, Cardinals, 49ers, and Seahawks) with equal or lesser records then their own. As far as leauge rankings go the Rams were 26th in total offense, 26th in scoring, 21st in passing offense and 25th in rushing offense with a franchise QB, RB, and a break out year from Danny Amendola (a poor man's Wes Welker.) That's more talent then the Browns have yet he still couldn't put up even average offensive stats.
He clearly did not get the head coaching job based on merit. He was most successful as the QB coach for the Eagles from 02-08. Now let me ask you do you think he was calling the plays at that time under Andy Reid? No he wasn't. He was hired due to his uncle, Fitz, who was the defensive coordinator under Holmgren at Seattle. It was flat out a shitty hire. If we didn't hire him last year and he stayed with the Rams I guarantee he would've lost his job this offseason with Spagnuolo and would more then likely return to being a QB coach if he was lucky.
Continuity is only good if you have a capable coach at the helm. We don't. We have a unproven offensive coordinator given a head coaching job who's only been able to prove that he can mastermind a below average offense. If he was a defensive minded coach it would be somewhat understandable but Shumur is not. If our offense plays like they did last year (which is more likely then not) Shumur and Holmgren have to go. Shumur for impeding the development of the young talent we have and will get in the upcoming draft and Holmgren for hiring his buddy's nephew to a job he was ill prepared and qualified for.
He did have a shot last year. He was given the same shot as every other coach in the leauge. My biggest problem is that he never deserved to be given the head coaching job in the first place, and has so far proven he doesn't deserve the job. He was an offensive coordinator for 2 whole years with the Rams. His first year with the Rams they went 1-15. His "break-out" season was a 7-9 record with the number one overall pick in arguably the worst division in NFL history. Remember the Seahawks won that division with a losing record at 7-9. I lived in St Louis in 2010 and saw every game. It was the same extremely conservative offense that we saw last year. The only reason, I repeat the only reason the Rams won 7 games that year is because they got to play the 8 games against the pitiful NFC west and even then were only able to go .500.
That Rams team beat the 6-10 Redskins, the 7-9 Seahawks, the 9-7 Chargers, the 2-14 Panthers, the 4-12 Broncos, the 5-11, Cardinals, and the 6-10 49ers. They lost to the Cardinals, the 8-8 Raiders, the 6-10 Lions (by a score of 44-6,) the 10-6 Bucs, the 49ers, the 13-3 Falcons, the 11-5 Saints, the 10-6 Chiefs, and finally a loss to the Seahawks in week 17 for a chance to go to the playoffs. The most that Rams team scored was 36, broke 30 twice, scored in the 20's five times, scored in the teens 7 times, and were held to single digits twice. They only beat one team with a winning record in the Chargers and lost to 4 teams (Lions, Cardinals, 49ers, and Seahawks) with equal or lesser records then their own. As far as leauge rankings go the Rams were 26th in total offense, 26th in scoring, 21st in passing offense and 25th in rushing offense with a franchise QB, RB, and a break out year from Danny Amendola (a poor man's Wes Welker.) That's more talent then the Browns have yet he still couldn't put up even average offensive stats.
He clearly did not get the head coaching job based on merit. He was most successful as the QB coach for the Eagles from 02-08. Now let me ask you do you think he was calling the plays at that time under Andy Reid? No he wasn't. He was hired due to his uncle, Fitz, who was the defensive coordinator under Holmgren at Seattle. It was flat out a shitty hire. If we didn't hire him last year and he stayed with the Rams I guarantee he would've lost his job this offseason with Spagnuolo and would more then likely return to being a QB coach if he was lucky.
Continuity is only good if you have a capable coach at the helm. We don't. We have a unproven offensive coordinator given a head coaching job who's only been able to prove that he can mastermind a below average offense. If he was a defensive minded coach it would be somewhat understandable but Shumur is not. If our offense plays like they did last year (which is more likely then not) Shumur and Holmgren have to go. Shumur for impeding the development of the young talent we have and will get in the upcoming draft and Holmgren for hiring his buddy's nephew to a job he was ill prepared and qualified for.
All good points. You may be right about Shurmur, I wanna see what he does this year before I settle on my judgments. At least if he is the wrong guy, I hope we can keep several coaches and a system in place if he is fired. We will never make the playoffs if we blow up every 3 or 4 years and change everything. I know its hard but patience is key here. I agree though, if it is decided Shurmur is not capable of the job, bring someone in that can do the job, but at least make sure he can run our "system" whatever that ends up being when we get some talent..
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