Broncos Trade To 4?
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Short and simple here, It worked last year. Its not something you do every year. If we had 5 or 6 picks sure- we have 13 picks for crying out loud. You want 13 drafted rookies on our roster- far too many IMO.
Find a face for the organization. Instead of trading back for NFL starters.
"Our Front Office is not prepared to pick that far back anyway."
Sadly, Yes they are- we have the #22 pick and the #37 pick- we've brought in guys like Weeden, Wilson and Martin- all guys you would see in that range.
Short and simple here, It worked last year. Its not something you do every year. If we had 5 or 6 picks sure- we have 13 picks for crying out loud. You want 13 drafted rookies on our roster- far too many IMO.
Find a face for the organization. Instead of trading back for NFL starters.
"Our Front Office is not prepared to pick that far back anyway."
Sadly, Yes they are- we have the #22 pick and the #37 pick- we've brought in guys like Weeden, Wilson and Martin- all guys you would see in that range.
While I agree that we do need some elite talent, I think elite or great talent can be found anywhere within the first 2 rounds. I hate hearing the 13 picks argument for why we shouldnt trade down. I dont expect an immediate starter for any draft pick outside the first 3 rounds. 9 of our 13 picks are in the 4th round or later!! To use that as a reason not to pile up more 2nd and 3rd round picks is idiotic. I personally feel that we are so far behind in talent level in so many areas that we need a lot of late 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks in order just to catch up. If you believe Richardson or Blackmon can come in here and make us a playoff contender you are delusional. So many really good players come from late 1st and second rounders, I think ignoring that because we have a top 10 pick is short-sighted. We arent getting our "elite franchise" QB this year top 10, we have a #1 CB and a LT already, there are no great DEs this year; THOSE are the positions I'd be clamoring for in the top 10. We can get very good RBs, LBs, WRs, linemen, and DBs in the late first round and second rounds.
That being said, I would have to be semi overwhelmed with a lot of top picks to move back again this year. But I would definitely do it, if it was a great offer.
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Short and simple here, It worked last year. Its not something you do every year. If we had 5 or 6 picks sure- we have 13 picks for crying out loud. You want 13 drafted rookies on our roster- far too many IMO.
Find a face for the organization. Instead of trading back for NFL starters.
"Our Front Office is not prepared to pick that far back anyway."
Sadly, Yes they are- we have the #22 pick and the #37 pick- we've brought in guys like Weeden, Wilson and Martin- all guys you would see in that range.
Over half of those picks are in the last 3 rounds though. It never hurts to have an extra pick in the 2nd and 3rd round.
Over half of those picks are in the last 3 rounds though. It never hurts to have an extra pick in the 2nd and 3rd round.
Agreed, we can't be assuming that we are going to find a Tom Brady or a Marques Colston or anyone like that with those picks. Do we have better odds with all those picks? Sure, but I would rather have an extra 2/3 round pick or so than 8 picks in round 5-7.
I don't want to trade down this far as I would rather still be in position to get Richardson, Blackmon, or Floyd
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Over half of those picks are in the last 3 rounds though. It never hurts to have an extra pick in the 2nd and 3rd round.
Agreed, we can't be assuming that we are going to find a Tom Brady or a Marques Colston or anyone like that with those picks. Do we have better odds with all those picks? Sure, but I would rather have an extra 2/3 round pick or so than 8 picks in round 5-7.
I don't want to trade down this far as I would rather still be in position to get Richardson, Blackmon, or Floyd
Agreed, we can't be assuming that we are going to find a Tom Brady or a Marques Colston or anyone like that with those picks. Do we have better odds with all those picks? Sure, but I would rather have an extra 2/3 round pick or so than 8 picks in round 5-7.
I don't want to trade down this far as I would rather still be in position to get Richardson, Blackmon, or Floyd
I look at it as: would you rather have T. Richardson or Doug Martin plus 3 more starters (2 1st round picks and a 2nd). For me, that is a no brainer. Richardson might be great, but is he THAT much better than the next tier that you would turn that down?? For me he is not. If he was a QB I would look at this differently.
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Agreed, we can't be assuming that we are going to find a Tom Brady or a Marques Colston or anyone like that with those picks. Do we have better odds with all those picks? Sure, but I would rather have an extra 2/3 round pick or so than 8 picks in round 5-7.
I don't want to trade down this far as I would rather still be in position to get Richardson, Blackmon, or Floyd
I look at it as: would you rather have T. Richardson or Doug Martin plus 3 more starters (2 1st round picks and a 2nd). For me, that is a no brainer. Richardson might be great, but is he THAT much better than the next tier that you would turn that down?? For me he is not. If he was a QB I would look at this differently.
I look at it as: would you rather have T. Richardson or Doug Martin plus 3 more starters (2 1st round picks and a 2nd). For me, that is a no brainer. Richardson might be great, but is he THAT much better than the next tier that you would turn that down?? For me he is not. If he was a QB I would look at this differently.
agree 100%. and if we did get such an offer, who says we couldn't package some of our then massive amounts of picks to trade back up somewhere in the mix?
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If the Broncos want to make that trade - Then Vikings are a safer bet right? I mean - They make the trade with Browns and then Vikings take Blacmon. Now what?
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If the Broncos want to make that trade - Then Vikings are a safer bet right? I mean - They make the trade with Browns and then Vikings take Blacmon. Now what?
If the Broncos want to make that trade - Then Vikings are a safer bet right? I mean - They make the trade with Browns and then Vikings take Blacmon. Now what?
That's why it would be a draft day trade as most trades are for draft picks.
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Agreed, we can't be assuming that we are going to find a Tom Brady or a Marques Colston or anyone like that with those picks. Do we have better odds with all those picks? Sure, but I would rather have an extra 2/3 round pick or so than 8 picks in round 5-7.
I don't want to trade down this far as I would rather still be in position to get Richardson, Blackmon, or Floyd
I look at it as: would you rather have T. Richardson or Doug Martin plus 3 more starters (2 1st round picks and a 2nd). For me, that is a no brainer. Richardson might be great, but is he THAT much better than the next tier that you would turn that down?? For me he is not. If he was a QB I would look at this differently.
I look at it as: would you rather have T. Richardson or Doug Martin plus 3 more starters (2 1st round picks and a 2nd). For me, that is a no brainer. Richardson might be great, but is he THAT much better than the next tier that you would turn that down?? For me he is not. If he was a QB I would look at this differently.
At the same time Doug Martin plus 3 starters could turn into: William Green, Jeff Faine, Brady Quinn, and David Vaikune. And Trent could be as good or better than AP.
I know there are a lot of if's and's or but's, but it's not a guarantee, either way as Trent could be the next... Ronnie Brown/Cadillac etc..
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Short and simple here, It worked last year. Its not something you do every year. If we had 5 or 6 picks sure- we have 13 picks for crying out loud. You want 13 drafted rookies on our roster- far too many IMO.
Find a face for the organization. Instead of trading back for NFL starters.
"Our Front Office is not prepared to pick that far back anyway."
Sadly, Yes they are- we have the #22 pick and the #37 pick- we've brought in guys like Weeden, Wilson and Martin- all guys you would see in that range.
Over half of those picks are in the last 3 rounds though. It never hurts to have an extra pick in the 2nd and 3rd round.
Over half of those picks are in the last 3 rounds though. It never hurts to have an extra pick in the 2nd and 3rd round.
And a lot of those cannot be traded because they are compensation picks. If the Browns could use a few of their tradeable low round picks to move up, that would be fine, but I don't think I want to bundle a bunch of our valuable higher round picks....or high picks in future years to move up.
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Short and simple here, It worked last year. Its not something you do every year. If we had 5 or 6 picks sure- we have 13 picks for crying out loud. You want 13 drafted rookies on our roster- far too many IMO.
Find a face for the organization. Instead of trading back for NFL starters.
"Our Front Office is not prepared to pick that far back anyway."
Sadly, Yes they are- we have the #22 pick and the #37 pick- we've brought in guys like Weeden, Wilson and Martin- all guys you would see in that range.
While I agree that we do need some elite talent, I think elite or great talent can be found anywhere within the first 2 rounds. I hate hearing the 13 picks argument for why we shouldnt trade down. I dont expect an immediate starter for any draft pick outside the first 3 rounds. 9 of our 13 picks are in the 4th round or later!! To use that as a reason not to pile up more 2nd and 3rd round picks is idiotic. I personally feel that we are so far behind in talent level in so many areas that we need a lot of late 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks in order just to catch up. If you believe Richardson or Blackmon can come in here and make us a playoff contender you are delusional. So many really good players come from late 1st and second rounders, I think ignoring that because we have a top 10 pick is short-sighted. We arent getting our "elite franchise" QB this year top 10, we have a #1 CB and a LT already, there are no great DEs this year; THOSE are the positions I'd be clamoring for in the top 10. We can get very good RBs, LBs, WRs, linemen, and DBs in the late first round and second rounds.
That being said, I would have to be semi overwhelmed with a lot of top picks to move back again this year. But I would definitely do it, if it was a great offer.
We can get very good RBs, LBs, WRs, linemen, and DBs in the late first round and second rounds.
Like MoMass, Robiske, Hardesty, Kameron Wimbley, William Green, etc.
Browns suck at picking late 1st/early 2nd. Well, Browns suck in general at drafting. Just saying...
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I look at it as: would you rather have T. Richardson or Doug Martin plus 3 more starters (2 1st round picks and a 2nd). For me, that is a no brainer. Richardson might be great, but is he THAT much better than the next tier that you would turn that down?? For me he is not. If he was a QB I would look at this differently.
At the same time Doug Martin plus 3 starters could turn into: William Green, Jeff Faine, Brady Quinn, and David Vaikune. And Trent could be as good or better than AP.
I know there are a lot of if's and's or but's, but it's not a guarantee, either way as Trent could be the next... Ronnie Brown/Cadillac etc..
At the same time Doug Martin plus 3 starters could turn into: William Green, Jeff Faine, Brady Quinn, and David Vaikune. And Trent could be as good or better than AP.
I know there are a lot of if's and's or but's, but it's not a guarantee, either way as Trent could be the next... Ronnie Brown/Cadillac etc..
Faine was not bad. It was the trading of him for a guy that played one day for the Browns that was bad.
The others were products of poor talent evaluation, and some bad luck, for sure. I have more confidence now in the eye of Tom Heckert than that of any of the guys that made those picks. Oh, he can miss, like perhaps with Montario....but I will put better odds on him than on others we have had.
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We can get very good RBs, LBs, WRs, linemen, and DBs in the late first round and second rounds.
Like MoMass, Robiske, Hardesty, Kameron Wimbley, William Green, etc.
Browns suck at picking late 1st/early 2nd. Well, Browns suck in general at drafting. Just saying...
Like MoMass, Robiske, Hardesty, Kameron Wimbley, William Green, etc.
Browns suck at picking late 1st/early 2nd. Well, Browns suck in general at drafting. Just saying...
Only Hardesty of those was a Heckert selection, and the book is actually still out on Hardesty.
But your point is well taken...and perhaps does not go far enough. Think of the very high 1st round picks Browns have had: Couch, Courtney Brown, Warren, Edwards, Winslow.
Other than JT the Browns have been even worse at picking talent when they have had the premium picks.
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I look at it as: would you rather have T. Richardson or Doug Martin plus 3 more starters (2 1st round picks and a 2nd). For me, that is a no brainer. Richardson might be great, but is he THAT much better than the next tier that you would turn that down?? For me he is not. If he was a QB I would look at this differently.
At the same time Doug Martin plus 3 starters could turn into: William Green, Jeff Faine, Brady Quinn, and David Vaikune. And Trent could be as good or better than AP.
I know there are a lot of if's and's or but's, but it's not a guarantee, either way as Trent could be the next... Ronnie Brown/Cadillac etc..
At the same time Doug Martin plus 3 starters could turn into: William Green, Jeff Faine, Brady Quinn, and David Vaikune. And Trent could be as good or better than AP.
I know there are a lot of if's and's or but's, but it's not a guarantee, either way as Trent could be the next... Ronnie Brown/Cadillac etc..
Yea I think that speaks to my point even more. High picks do bust or get injured. So putting all your eggs in one basket in Trent Richardson is much riskier than having four picks... And we have a different GM than when those picks were taken. I trust Heckerts track record more than Savage and MUCHHH more than Mangini who was horrendous at drafting.
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We can get very good RBs, LBs, WRs, linemen, and DBs in the late first round and second rounds.
Like MoMass, Robiske, Hardesty, Kameron Wimbley, William Green, etc.
Browns suck at picking late 1st/early 2nd. Well, Browns suck in general at drafting. Just saying...
Like MoMass, Robiske, Hardesty, Kameron Wimbley, William Green, etc.
Browns suck at picking late 1st/early 2nd. Well, Browns suck in general at drafting. Just saying...
No, like LeSean McCoy and Desean Jackson...
Its not the Browns organization as a whole picking the draft. It is the GM. Hardesty was the only one picked by our GM and while he is likely a "bust", like Gipper said the jury is still out.
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Denver gives us the 25, 67, and 87 this year, and their 2013 and 2014 first round picks to take Blackmon for Peyton Manning.
With Peyton Possibly having 3 decent/good years left or a little more i heard they might be interested in making the deals they need this year to contend for the superbowl right away for Manning.
As a Browns Fan
Yes or No?
Personally I would say no and take our play maker at 4 but i know some people LOVE the trade down scenerios so whats the answer?
Are we just pulling trades out of our asses now? At least when we discussed the Philly trade it was something that had been rumored nationally.
Are we just pulling trades out of our asses now? At least when we discussed the Philly trade it was something that had been rumored nationally.
I agree....and the compensation is way high.
If worms had guns, birds wouldn't eat them.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
At the same time Doug Martin plus 3 starters could turn into: William Green, Jeff Faine, Brady Quinn, and David Vaikune. And Trent could be as good or better than AP.
I know there are a lot of if's and's or but's, but it's not a guarantee, either way as Trent could be the next... Ronnie Brown/Cadillac etc..
Yea I think that speaks to my point even more. High picks do bust or get injured. So putting all your eggs in one basket in Trent Richardson is much riskier than having four picks... And we have a different GM than when those picks were taken. I trust Heckerts track record more than Savage and MUCHHH more than Mangini who was horrendous at drafting.
Yea I think that speaks to my point even more. High picks do bust or get injured. So putting all your eggs in one basket in Trent Richardson is much riskier than having four picks... And we have a different GM than when those picks were taken. I trust Heckerts track record more than Savage and MUCHHH more than Mangini who was horrendous at drafting.
I think a lot of the fault on that can be put at Lerner's foot. Mangini never expected to be the final say in the draft process. That was supposed to be a GM....Kokinis?...who was not around to fulfill his duties, and when he wasn't around Mangini had to step in or it wouldn't get done.
Same with Butch Davis earlier. That is why Lerner hired Holmgren who is supposed to be a real football man. If by chance say Heckert had been totally debilitated by his heart condition, or even die God forbid, Holmgren would have been there to pick up the pieces. It wouldn't have been left to Shurmur say, like it had been in the past with Davis and Mangini.
Hell, Holmgren may have actually been required to earn some of his money.
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Are we just pulling trades out of our asses now? At least when we discussed the Philly trade it was something that had been rumored nationally.
I agree....and the compensation is way high.
If worms had guns, birds wouldn't eat them.
I agree....and the compensation is way high.
If worms had guns, birds wouldn't eat them.
Sounds like you've been hanging around with Jed Clampett.
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You guys make no sense...
Let me get this straight...
Trust in Heckert to draft (BTW I think he has done a good job) but in the same sentence talk about our 5-7 round picks as potential picks not suitable for this this team. If Heckert's good he'll find them in any round.
I'd argue those 5-7 round picks are just as important especially in the salary cap era. You hope to find 3 or 4 guys that stick long term on the team with the picks in those rounds this year. You have those guys under control at a low price for a 3-4 years. The alternative is signing a guy like Frostee Rucker for 4 mil. a year or Jaqua parker for 3 mil. a year.
We need playmakers and we need a face in this organization. When a game changing talent is in line with the your selection you take him. Trading away a top 10 pick for 3 out of 4 years (assuming we do it this year) significantly reduces those chances.
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You guys make no sense...
Let me get this straight...
Trust in Heckert to draft (BTW I think he has done a good job) but in the same sentence talk about our 5-7 round picks as potential picks not suitable for this this team. If Heckert's good he'll find them in any round.
I'd argue those 5-7 round picks are just as important especially in the salary cap era. You hope to find 3 or 4 guys that stick long term on the team with the picks in those rounds this year. You have those guys under control at a low price for a 3-4 years. The alternative is signing a guy like Frostee Rucker for 4 mil. a year or Jaqua parker for 3 mil. a year.
We need playmakers and we need a face in this organization. When a game changing talent is in line with the your selection you take him. Trading away a top 10 pick for 3 out of 4 years (assuming we do it this year) significantly reduces those chances.
You guys make no sense...
Let me get this straight...
Trust in Heckert to draft (BTW I think he has done a good job) but in the same sentence talk about our 5-7 round picks as potential picks not suitable for this this team. If Heckert's good he'll find them in any round.
I'd argue those 5-7 round picks are just as important especially in the salary cap era. You hope to find 3 or 4 guys that stick long term on the team with the picks in those rounds this year. You have those guys under control at a low price for a 3-4 years. The alternative is signing a guy like Frostee Rucker for 4 mil. a year or Jaqua parker for 3 mil. a year.
We need playmakers and we need a face in this organization. When a game changing talent is in line with the your selection you take him. Trading away a top 10 pick for 3 out of 4 years (assuming we do it this year) significantly reduces those chances.
Those picks are always going to be hit or miss, especially in round 6-7. I think Heckert can possibly find one or two guys with those picks, but I don't expect them all to stick with the team or turn into starters. I would feel much more confident if he had and extra 2nd and 3rd to work with rather than a 6th and 7th.
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We can get very good RBs, LBs, WRs, linemen, and DBs in the late first round and second rounds.
Like MoMass, Robiske, Hardesty, Kameron Wimbley, William Green, etc.
Browns suck at picking late 1st/early 2nd. Well, Browns suck in general at drafting. Just saying...
Well, Browns suck in general at drafting. Just saying...
yeah like taylor, sheard, and little are bums.
yeah little dropped the ball a lot last year. he better get over that real quick. i think cameron has a chance to be a good TE and hagg i'm still on the fence about. but 5 guys to contribute right out of the gate for a single year's draft is hardly drafting bad.
heckert has made the difference. hopefully holmgren keeps his nose out of the dude's biz on draft day and we don't end up with some WR turned QB.
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All I'm saying is...Sooner or later its time to take the AJ Greens or the Adrian Petersons of the draft class.
We used to have a guy that was good for 1 or 2 wins a year (Josh Cribbs) the NFL is all about mismatches. Look at NE with Gronk- he is half himself in the Super Bowl and the offense looks lost.
If Josh Cribbs wasn't returning kicks for TDs or 40/50 yard gains- he was making punters directional kick it and we would have field position at midfield. That's the kind of player that makes your offense if its respectable a lot better. Give the Browns 1 guy that you have to gameplan for and watch some of these other smaller pieces like (Little) play at a higher level.
I'd much rather have some elite players with a guy like Heckert drafting I expect him to hit on a few late round picks with guys that have 2nd or 3rd round type careers. Do you think his ego gets in the way? If you or I had to pick at 4 this season we'd do fine with Blackmon or Richardson- we'd keep our jobs and not have to worry about filling that spot next draft year. If he's confident picking his guys- he has 12 picks from the end of round 1 to round 7 to make himself look good.
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