Worse than Wimbley
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Sometimes I wonder if we'd be better off using Wimbley as a roving pass-rusher: let him shut his brain off, pin his ears back, and get after the QB. If he still struggled while playing that role, we'd know for sure that he's not going to be the kind of elite rusher that makes a 3-4 D dominant.
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My opinion on being a rover type is you have to make plays and especially tackles, which I'm seeing as weaknesses right now.
It's almost just the opposite, where Tucker may be just conceding the guy needs to be more of a contain type than just removing himself from plays like he's been doing. He doesn't appear to have controlled speed, but more like a guy trying to be faster than what he is. Willie is not a good role model in this respect because he seems to be missing open field guys often and not wrapping up. The Browns spun Kam's performance last year by saying he was there often with pressure but there was no inside support. I saw it as him taking himself out of the play with his upfield speed rush and the QB simply stepping up like they're supposed to do. We're now in week 8 and his production continues to drop off even from last year.
Occasionally he'll catch a tackle overplaying his speed and giving him too much space when he cuts inside, but then he starts stumbling and is in no position to make the tackle. We have played some pretty mobile QB's thus far, which hurts a guy like Kam when he's not in position to finish the tackle.
Right now, I don't think he's a detriment per say given the way the defense is performing as a whole, but like you said, I think it's safe to assume the guy is nothing special like Ware or somebody. Not to second guess the pick, but imagine Ngata and Rogers up front and a guy like Peek (before injury obviously) or Hall playing Kam's spot. Who knows, maybe he's injured or something, but he just seems to lack the instincts. So far, Jackson is the better player out of that draft and becoming the leader of the defense. He seems to be the emotional support out there and the guy you can count on to play every down.
The Browns still lack good break down skills on tackling individually. A good example was Jones last week on the fourth down conversion in the red zone: He had Drew stopped deep in the backfield but rather than making a play on the ball got swallowed (by a hold....but still) and Drew ended up getting just enough by running 15 yards to get two.
I feel like I'm nitpicking the defense, but I think they have the potential to be damn good by tackling better and with another playmaker at DE. Wimbley is on his way to being an average player in this league unless he steps it up a lot. We've got Rogers just dominating the front and getting more pressure in one game than Wimbley has at a designated spot all year. This is also forcing them to blitz more, which is good in a way, but I just wonder.........
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Wimbly is the best pass rusher in the league who never gets to the qb.
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Ugh. As I read that, I pictured seeing Wimbley stumbling as he tries to change directions. Something all of us have seen a lot, but maybe not noticed how often.\ said:
Occasionally he'll catch a tackle overplaying his speed and giving him too much space when he cuts inside, but then he starts stumbling and is in no position to make the tackle. We have played some pretty mobile QB's thus far, which hurts a guy like Kam when he's not in position to finish the tackle.So far, Jackson is the better player out of that draft and becoming the leader of the defense. He seems to be the emotional support out there and the guy you can count on to play every down.
Agreed. Jackson's really grown into a leader in the past few years. IIRC, Jackson got a little negative pub his rookie year when he stopped hanging around the team after being placed on IR (w/ turf toe). Not only that, but Leon Williams seemed to outplay DQ when he took over his spot.Now, no one's questioning that DQ's the better player, as well as the young leader of our defense.
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no worries--he's just been getting double-teamed and/or chipped all season.
albeit hard to swallow, the writings all over the wall.........in 10' letters.
i foresee them experimenting w/ alex on the right in the very near future.
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Welcome to the new board, sisky.
Hall did play some ROLB in the preseason. However, I think he'll stick on the left side for the rest of the season. With Willie being older & Wimbley struggling, it's probably not the best time to start playing musical chairs with our LB core.\ said:
i foresee them experimenting w/ alex on the right in the very near future.That said, things could be much different next year. If we end up bringing in someone to play LOLB, I could see Hall & Wimbley splitting time on the other side.
Hopefully, Wimbley will turn things around & make this whole discussion moot.
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I've read that Cushing hasn't looked good playing inside. He's struggled shedding blockers, which is a big concern if you're projecting him to 3-4 ILB.\ said:
Wimbley isn't going any where. We need a rey M or even brian Cushing in the middle. -
Perhaps this isn't the best time to bring this up, but...
Let me first state that, the current state of our D-Line makes this point moot, but with the personnel we have/had, the fact that we are running the 3-4 is ludicrous. Yes, I understand NE (could) and PIT (can, always) pull it off, but with the crap we have/had at LB, I just don't get it. At all.
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\ said:
I've read that Cushing hasn't looked good playing inside. He's struggled shedding blockers, which is a big concern if you're projecting him to 3-4 ILB.\ said:
Wimbley isn't going any where. We need a rey M or even brian Cushing in the middle.Whom do you like at mlb/ilb in april???
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Not sure yet. I still haven't watched Curry play, and I didn't really like what I saw when I watched Brandon Spikes, but these are a few guys to look at:\ said:
Whom do you like at mlb/ilb in april???[*] Rey Maualuga, USC[/*
1f2yug5x][*] Brandon Spikes, Florida*[/*
1f2yug5x][*] Eric Norwood, SC *[/*
1f2yug5x]* = Juniors
It doesn't look like there's a lot of depth to this class, so you could be right that we need to go ILB in Round 1. Norwood may be available in Round 2 or 3, but most people think he's a marginal talent compared to those other guys (I disagree).
There are also a few late-round guys I like (Worrell Williams, Jasper Brinkley), but they're not going to come in and make a significant impact.
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I agree. But just like we don't have an LB core suitable for the 3-4, we don't have the set of DE's we'd need to run a 4-3.\ said:
Perhaps this isn't the best time to bring this up, but...Let me first state that, the current state of our D-Line makes this point moot, but with the personnel we have/had, the fact that we are running the 3-4 is ludicrous. Yes, I understand NE (could) and PIT (can, always) pull it off, but with the crap we have/had at LB, I just don't get it. At all.
Wimbley and (possibly) Hall are exclusively 3-4 players, so I think "path dependency" will lead us to stick with the 3-4, even if the coaching staff changes this offseason.
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Welcome to the new board, sisky.
Hall did play some ROLB in the preseason. However, I think he'll stick on the left side for the rest of the season. With Willie being older & Wimbley struggling, it's probably not the best time to start playing musical chairs with our LB core.\ said:
i foresee them experimenting w/ alex on the right in the very near future.That said, things could be much different next year. If we end up bringing in someone to play LOLB, I could see Hall & Wimbley splitting time on the other side.
Hopefully, Wimbley will turn things around & make this whole discussion moot.
hey thanks.
i thought Wimbley has looked pretty decent on the left in the past.
just saying.
to me it would certainly come down to alex's skills on the right side. in a perfect world we could mix them up, utilizing them both ambidextrous-like, playing to both their strengths. if kept in the cleveland vault until sunday to be unveiled proper--unleashed on an unsuspecting baltimore who have spent a solid week planning for the duck-under........ it just might give extra spark to get it done. who knows? as the broncos coaches begin to scramble>>late night's follow. extra reps forced last minute on jet-lagged players only helps us on a short week. and the cribbs bronco package certainly went in this week too..........
sounds good on paper, huh? fuok it it's only football.
abeit a bit premature to imagine a 7th rd rookie against these LT's on this schedule, for sure, and i don't disagree that this probably won't play out in a game, they have to be seeing what we're seeing.
which means they also see how Kam W often gets sacrificed to clear out the right side for Rogers and Co. i was just jacking you guys off a little about him in the previous post but seriously, i do see him getting managed pretty thoroughly this season. presumably like you all do. i very much prefer to see him perfect his craft further as he begins his memoirs entitled Ripping the Door Open: My Life on LT Island.
to me luring his blocker away from the play is simply brilliant. it solves the speed problem by allowing things to open for others, and when used correctly it's very, very effective. whether by accident or by design it has worked and i hope we see it much more often (consciously).
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When Wimbely was a rookie - he was ONLY asked to do what Alex Hall is being asked to do. That's rush the passer. This year, I've seen Wimbley dropping into hook zone coverages and recall at least 2 passes he closed on and batted down.
I haven't seen NEARLY as many RBs turning the corner on us which means he's played with great outside leverage and maintained contain. As players progress into 2nd and 3rd seasons - they take on MORE responsibility.
Manny Lawson had 11 sacks as a rokie and I think Marc Anderson had 11 or 12 as well. That said, they weren't asked to drop off into coverage and be complete. They were turned loose into sic em like we're doing with Alex Hall. LOVE that kid - he's Conan at sic em. I don't WANT us halting that anytime soon. Understandign this - did these guys just fall into the SUCK category 1 year later or was more asked of them than 1 dimnesional pass rusher stuff. Folks, when teams haven't NEEDED to throw on us in 2nd and 2 situations - you ought to be happy we're making Wimbley better against the run and/or contain. His outside leverage is WAY better than it was. When you think about it - we're not seeing chubby retreads like Lamont Jordan beating outside contain to the sidelines any more. We're not even seeign BETTER RBs do this and why? Wimbley's become a better fulltime LBer.
Is Wimbley a Superstar? No, BUT he's doing MORE for our defense than just rushing the passer every down. He's STILL hurrying QBs to throw the ball. He's just facing LEFT Tackles while Hall is facing the Right Tackles. Left Tackles are better pass blockers and you won't see Hall finish with more than 11 sacks as a rookie so let's stop acting like Wimbley is killing us on Sundays folks. You don't get 11 sacks as a wide eyed rookie if you DON'T have it. Next time you see a PASS play where Alex hurries the throw get the number of the LBer in the hook zone batting down the ball because it just might be #95.
You want a refreshing change? How often are opposing Offenses in 2nd and 2 situations this year? OC's no longer have our DC by the balls in the Sunday chess match BECAUSE we're better against the run. It's because guys like Wimbley AND Jackson are playing BETTER against the run. No more FAT RBs like Lamont Jordan breaking outside contain to the sidelines. We're better on defense everywhere so why is everyone MORE reluctant to fussd about Wimbley than spend time complimenting Tucker for the job he's doing with the D?
- Tom F.
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Just to fill in the details, here's a report from PFW:\ said:
I've read that Cushing hasn't looked good playing inside. He's struggled shedding blockers, which is a big concern if you're projecting him to 3-4 ILB.\ said:
Wimbley isn't going any where. We need a rey M or even brian Cushing in the middle.Scouts were hoping to see USC SLB Brian Cushing perform better than he did when he moved inside against Arizona State to replace the injured Rey Maualuga, but with action coming at him from both sides, he did not anticipate and react as quickly as he did tilted over the tight end on the strong side and did not play with as much pop, power and punch taking on blockers. He is versatile enough to fill in during a pinch, but his best position will be lining up over the tight end.
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Wimbley isn't going any where. We need a rey M or even brian Cushing in the middle. I don't want laurenitis unless in second round...just not convinced he is real deal.Cushings, not Rey M. Rey is all hit flash and little substance from what I have seen (and have heard from big USC fans).
And if someone was gonna take one of OSU's LBs, I'd sooner go Marcus Freeman before Laurenitis.
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Wow - Mark Anderson still is without a sack this season.
Which got me thinking: maybe we should compare Wimbley's performance this season to his fellow '06 draft classmates.
Here are all the DE & 3-4 OLB prospects taken between Wimbley and Anderson:
- Kamerion Wimbley (1.13) - 3.0 sacks
- Bobby Carpenter (1.18) - 0.0 sacks
- Tamba Hali (1.20) - 1.0 sack
- Manny Lawson (1.22) - 3.0 sacks
- Mathias Kiwanuka (1.32) - 6.5 sacks
- Darryl Tapp (2.31) - 2.0 sacks
- Chris Gocong (3.7) - 2.0 sacks
- Clint Ingram (3.16) - 2.0 sacks
- Victor Adeyanju (4.16) - 2.0 sacks
- Rob Ninkovich (5.2) - 0.0 sacks
- Parys Haralson (5.7) - 4.5 sacks
- Mark Anderson (5.26) - 0.0 sacks
So while Wimbley may not be a classic "bust", it may be fair to say that he's not living up to his draft position.
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Damn, Al, you are pouring it on tonight. Nicely done, as always.
Any chance YOU could just become GM? I honestly think you'd do a better job.
.jpg.a1a2b9a0c33008fdaf4097d8fe2cfd64.jpg "Riffer X"){kind=avatar}
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