Can a new coach/staff turn Wimbley around
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Masters said:
Natural ability or lack of moves? Lack of moves isn't a lack of ability. It's a lack of teaching/coaching or lack of ability to learn. With the previous coaching staff, I can't tell if he can't learn. He picked up dropping into coverage, so I tend to think the kid can learn.I don't think we didn't coach him, and somewhere along the way he has had good coaching outside of the NFL.
Sure, I agree...the guy has physical ability, but after 3-4 years and he hasn't done anything to improve(not saying he hasn't tried), it doesn't give me much hope he is all of a sudden going to find the magic dust and all of a sudden be a league force.
Not many guys have developed in to great pass rushers. They are usually guys who were good to begin with and got better.
If you guys want to hold your breath while he develops, fine by me...I'm not, and if he somehow turns it around, cool beans.
One other thing on Wimp...he does more than rush the passer, and he isn't all that good at that either.
He has a long way to go in this posters eyes.....but again, that's just my opinion. I have been wrong before......just not that often;)
If you guys want to hold your breath while he develops, fine by me...I'm not, and if he somehow turns it around, cool beans.
One other thing on Wimp...he does more than rush the passer, and he isn't all that good at that either.
He has a long way to go in this posters eyes.....but again, that's just my opinion. I have been wrong before......just not that often;)
Judging by your "Albert" signature graphic, I'm wondering if this opinion is just a Gator hating on a former FSU player? It's this 3-4 scheme the Browns use. Wimbley was a DE in a 4-3 at FSU. I think some players just do better if they're on the D-line in that 3-point stance. It's more comfortable for them to fight that opposing OT at the snap of the ball. He doesn't seem comfortable sitting back and having to react to the play as a linebacker should. He's a pure pass rusher. If the next coach also uses the 3-4 (i.e. Mangini), trading Wimbley to a 4-3 team would be the best option IMO.
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the only problem with trading him is that there's no way we'll get comparable value for him. otherwise, i might be inclined to say pull the trigger on that one.
overall, i think wimbley needs two things: better coaching and the right scheme. as he currently exists, he doesn't have what it takes to consistently beat people one-on-one. therefore, it's up to the coaching staff to make him get stronger, teach him new moves and blitz people around him to create openings for him.
i don't think he's a lost cause yet. he can likely learn new moves and any coaching staff worth its salt can install a defense that doesn't rely on him to get to the QB by himself.
we just need a coach who isn't mangini. otherwise, we'll see more of the same from wimbley for the next four years.
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This is pretty cool everything I pointed out about Wimbley in his first year is now being discussed here after I was crucified for saying his limitations back then.
Turn about is fair play and do appreciate all the recognition for seeing his issues first.
And for Masters you cannot teach moves ........you got em or you don't............and that is what makes the world go round.........else everyone would be equal and taught all the moves...........and we all could be a pass rusher in the NFL
Better yet a stud OL tackle since you need no moves to play that position
Offense Wins.......Franchise QB's are the key.............Defense keeps you in the game.........Go Buckeyes -
This is pretty cool everything I pointed out about Wimbley in his first year is now being discussed here after I was crucified for saying his limitations back then.
Turn about is fair play and do appreciate all the recognition for seeing his issues first.
And for Masters you cannot teach moves ........you got em or you don't............and that is what makes the world go round.........else everyone would be equal and taught all the moves...........and we all could be a pass rusher in the NFL
Better yet a stud OL tackle since you need no moves to play that position
And for Masters you cannot teach moves ........you got em or you don't............and that is what makes the world go round.........else everyone would be equal and taught all the moves...........and we all could be a pass rusher in the NFL
Huh? That is like saying you can't teach math, you either know it or you don't. Of course you can teach techniques, that does not mean he will be able to successfully execute each 'move' but he can certainly be taught. He is athletic enough to be able to have various moves, as long as he is smart enough to recognize the situation and know which move would give him the best odds at success.
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If you guys want to hold your breath while he develops, fine by me...I'm not, and if he somehow turns it around, cool beans.
One other thing on Wimp...he does more than rush the passer, and he isn't all that good at that either.
He has a long way to go in this posters eyes.....but again, that's just my opinion. I have been wrong before......just not that often;)
Judging by your "Albert" signature graphic, I'm wondering if this opinion is just a Gator hating on a former FSU player? It's this 3-4 scheme the Browns use. Wimbley was a DE in a 4-3 at FSU. I think some players just do better if they're on the D-line in that 3-point stance. It's more comfortable for them to fight that opposing OT at the snap of the ball. He doesn't seem comfortable sitting back and having to react to the play as a linebacker should. He's a pure pass rusher. If the next coach also uses the 3-4 (i.e. Mangini), trading Wimbley to a 4-3 team would be the best option IMO.
Judging by your "Albert" signature graphic, I'm wondering if this opinion is just a Gator hating on a former FSU player? It's this 3-4 scheme the Browns use. Wimbley was a DE in a 4-3 at FSU. I think some players just do better if they're on the D-line in that 3-point stance. It's more comfortable for them to fight that opposing OT at the snap of the ball. He doesn't seem comfortable sitting back and having to react to the play as a linebacker should. He's a pure pass rusher. If the next coach also uses the 3-4 (i.e. Mangini), trading Wimbley to a 4-3 team would be the best option IMO.
The big issue is that Wimbley likes to duck under the opposing blocker and effectively do a straight deep lunge at the QB. He's one of the best I've ever seen at that particular move. Human physics says this move is easier to do and to disguise when your already half-way (3 point stance) into the move before you start it. If you have to perform half the move because you are standing up before you start it, or are starting 5 yards off the tackle, then it isn't as easy. You essentially telegraph the move by proxy because it takes you so long to get into it, that it gives the opposition time to react.
But you put him over the left shoulder of the left tackle, and he can beat the guy by sliding under that shoulder.
The issue is, the DC or HC or GM or whomever was making the calls, tried to fit a square peg into a round hole, and it didn't work. Instead of modifying your base scheme to fit your talent, they tried to make their talent do things they weren't very good at, because that's what the scheme demanded.
I think if a DC lets Wimbley do what he's good at, we will see 11 sacks, and more, again.
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This is pretty cool everything I pointed out about Wimbley in his first year is now being discussed here after I was crucified for saying his limitations back then.
Turn about is fair play and do appreciate all the recognition for seeing his issues first.
And for Masters you cannot teach moves ........you got em or you don't............and that is what makes the world go round.........else everyone would be equal and taught all the moves...........and we all could be a pass rusher in the NFL
Better yet a stud OL tackle since you need no moves to play that position
And for Masters you cannot teach moves ........you got em or you don't............and that is what makes the world go round.........else everyone would be equal and taught all the moves...........and we all could be a pass rusher in the NFL
Better yet a stud OL tackle since you need no moves to play that position
That's a dumb statement and probably doesn't deserve comment. But here I go...
You CAN learn new moves. Otherwise, how at 37, did I earn my black belt in Karate? I learned new moves, and I became fairly proficient at them. Now agreed, the NFL is a different animal than Karate. But the analogy stands.
Wimbley obviously has some talent. Otherwise he wouldn't have gotten 11 sacks in his rookie season. The problem is many-fold. I expressed one of them in a previous post in this thread.
The other problems, is when the other team doesn't fear anyone else on the line, they can double team him. Oh sure, Rogers was a threat, but you need two outside threats or two inside threats, or three threats overall on the D-line. The Browns had two, which were handled because of the problems of my previous post.
So blame Wimbley for not being so great (unlike Rogers) that he can't overcome being mis-coached, mis-played, and mis-aligned.
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The only problem I have with some of the posters who say you can't teach a guy to be a pass rusher, I think you are wrong. First, he was a good pass rusher his first year and everybody praised him as the next Peppers or Freeney. Then we have two years of his sacks falling off to nothing.
He didn't forget how to rush the passer. Either he lost his edge or determination or he wasn't coached well and put into situations where he would succeed.
I watched every game this year and saw him drop into coverage more then he rushed the passer. He is a speed rusher and they were trying to teach him to be a power rusher and trying to make him a cover man. The rap on him was that he got taken out of plays by taking that outside angle and being pushed past the QB creating a gap off tackle. While, then why didn't the coaches bring someone up to fill the gap when he was rushing wide. I see very poor technique coaching, not only of the LBs but also the DBs. The safties were constantly out of position. How many times were they in a cover two and the corners got burned because they didn't have help over the top like they were suppose to.
Last year McDonald was great but all of the sudden he is getting beat because his technique sucks and the scheme sucks.
So, I think Wimbley is a very good athlete and he doesn't seem to be a slacker. I believe a coaching staff that can teach better technique and play a better scheme can turn this guy around. I'm hoping anyway.
This is part of the problem you have when you are trying to find hybrid type guys for a 3-4 defense. Some just don't work out. I think this guy can still be a productive pass usher for this team.
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Thank you..............as for dumb which part of dumb is all you........getting wrong continuously and rich getting it right continuously ......... and the haters of Rich always calling rich dumb.......bingo number 3240 of dumb again above and wrong again as usual..........you CANNOT TEACH MOVES YOU GOT EM OR YOU DON"T
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Thank you..............as for dumb which part of dumb is all you........getting wrong continuously and rich getting it right continuously ......... and the haters of Rich always calling rich dumb.......bingo number 3240 of dumb again above and wrong again as usual..........you CANNOT TEACH MOVES YOU GOT EM OR YOU DON"T
Thank you..............as for dumb which part of dumb is all you........getting wrong continuously and rich getting it right continuously ......... and the haters of Rich always calling rich dumb.......bingo number 3240 of dumb again above and wrong again as usual..........you CANNOT TEACH MOVES YOU GOT EM OR YOU DON"T
Oh, so it is not just me that sees your stupidity spewed on a daily basis??
LOL - yeah, 326 people see it, but only one refutes it....
LOL.
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Thanks buddy when you are done insulting me.........please tell again as you did five hundred times what a great job Sewage done while I demanded he get fired for three plus years
and I do find it hilarious that you and a few other lightweights turned this thread into about me instead of Wimbley........but it is expected when you are chewing on feces daily
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Thank you..............as for dumb which part of dumb is all you........getting wrong continuously and rich getting it right continuously ......... and the haters of Rich always calling rich dumb.......bingo number 3240 of dumb again above and wrong again as usual..........you CANNOT TEACH MOVES YOU GOT EM OR YOU DON"T
Oh, so it is not just me that sees your stupidity spewed on a daily basis??
LOL - yeah, 326 people see it, but only one refutes it....
LOL.
Oh, so it is not just me that sees your stupidity spewed on a daily basis??
LOL - yeah, 326 people see it, but only one refutes it....
LOL.
thanks for the personal attack......now someone said you can teach have moves.............and I said you got moves or you do not............and someone else turned that into you can teach a person to be a pass rusher............TWO DIFFERENT TOPICS
and then yu came in to flame me and added nothing..........what is your take genius.........on pass rushing and moves and life and winning...........make my day
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Oh, so it is not just me that sees your stupidity spewed on a daily basis??
LOL - yeah, 326 people see it, but only one refutes it....
LOL.
thanks for the personal attack......now someone said you can teach have moves.............and I said you got moves or you do not............and someone else turned that into you can teach a person to be a pass rusher............TWO DIFFERENT TOPICS
and then yu came in to flame me and added nothing..........what is your take genius.........on pass rushing and moves and life and winning...........make my day
now someone said you can teach have moves.............and I said you got moves or you do not
Another chicken-or-the-egg convo.
Speaking of moves...
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now someone said you can teach have moves.............and I said you got moves or you do not
Another chicken-or-the-egg convo.
Speaking of moves...
mz. said:
Another chicken-or-the-egg convo.Speaking of moves...
I'm a chicken guy all the way! No way an egg just appeared out of nowhere. There is no way you can teach chickens moves, I tried for 6 months to teach one the chicken dance, thinking it would be about the easiest for it, but nope, wasted effort.
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It's easy to teach moves, dickwad. Technique is the key word here - one of the raps against PSU from the college to the pro level is that they are like robots - their techniques were taught within a system that was successful. If you can teach a kid from 18-22 something, you sure as hell can teach a guy who is 22-26 a different set of variations.
If it is instincts you crave, that comes within. Either you are aggressive by nature, or you are not. I have coached a lot of baseball and football, and that is something moreso in younger kids that you just cannot teach. However, instincts can be developed SOMEWHAT just by noticing tendencies, watching film, repetitions and so on.
So don't tell me it cannot be taught....
Idiot. Again. As if there were ever a question.
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I'm not sure how you can single out Wimbley or ANY player on this roster for underachieving. Defenses work as a unit. One players success depends upon those around them. This defense as a WHOLE needs better coaching and more talent. What happens with Wimbley is anyones guess. But to single him out is ridiculous. If the DE in front of him sucks..they put one guy on him and 2 on Wimbley.. If you watched the games....you saw this fairly often.. I am not say Wimbley is the best guy around and deserving of double teams....he's not.. but you gotta have better then dime a dozen guys in front of him.. Right Rich?
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Yu are right SEZ, I really do agree with you. For pour resident moves teachers ........if you can really teach moves we can teach everyone to be 9.1 100 yard sprinter........yah know teach the right moves to get the legs going fast enough even if you have one leg
and hell yeah we can teach the arm moves for everyone to throw a 70 yard laser pass
dumbest thing I ever heard of teaching moves......techniques yah buddy............moves too funny
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Yu are right SEZ, I really do agree with you. For pour resident moves teachers ........if you can really teach moves we can teach everyone to be 9.1 100 yard sprinter........yah know teach the right moves to get the legs going fast enough even if you have one leg
and hell yeah we can teach the arm moves for everyone to throw a 70 yard laser pass
dumbest thing I ever heard of teaching moves......techniques yah buddy............moves too funny
and hell yeah we can teach the arm moves for everyone to throw a 70 yard laser pass
I'm sorry, rich, but this is really the dumbest analogy I've seen yet.
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Honestly Rich - and I mean this in all seriousness, because I do have a handicapped brother....
But were you born premature or did you go to special ed in school??? Or was it the Agent Orange?
Because you are by far the dumbest peckerhead I think I have ever come across, real-life or on a message board.
You are stupid. Just plain stupid.
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My definition of "moves" is much more closely related to technique. I assume that you (Rich) define moves as athletic ability, which of course you can't be completely taught, although you can be improved.
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