H & H On The Hot Seat?
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
And I understand that, completely. I have most certainly thrown out my share of vitriol, trash and irritation. NOt making excuses, but that's just me, I come off like an inflexible, asshole drill seargent. I get it.
But here is the other factor for me. Being a Browns fans since I can first remember, probably 1960, at 6 years old, I have a pretty big Browns database to mangage. IN all honesty, I couldn't warm up to this team as I did the older ones. I don't mean to start shit about real and fake Browns, but my point is it was about me. You know, like a kid from a broken home who couldn't warm up to some new guy sleeping with his Mom.
Maybe I just needed enought time to pass, or perhaps I am just mentally slow, but whatever it is, this Browns team is my Browns team. This Browns team IS THe Browns.
All this unrealistic bullshit about we have to win next year or else, is just that, it is unrealistic bullshit.
Before this team can win it has to learn to play with passion, discipline and pride. It needs to be cohesive, execute properly and hopefully among the players, begin to build a team/family or what ever horseshit you want to call it.
I am sorry, but a team as fragile as ours couldn't afford the noise of a Hillis. The only thing the Browns must do in 2012, is start doing all that happy horseshit that successful teams and organizations do. When that happens, guys have opportunities to make plays; they feel a responsibility to make plays, and a responsibility to be better representatives of the team.
Hoorta has always been big on players with class and respect. I used to pull his nutsack off about how that shit doesn't matter and we just need playmakers. Well, I think both of these things are important.
I know this much, I have my 1964 throwback jacket ready to wear and while I am not pushing throught the summer, I WILL be ready to see the Browns finally heading in the right direction. I'll say it again, Homgrens stock went up greatly with me when I saw him stay calm, focused and with Heckert producing a draft that has high probability of good things for us.
I hate to swear, but man, I have been building this up for 10 years now. Fuck Pittsburgh. Fuck their lucky SB wins. Fuck Cowher, Fuck Big Ben, Fuck Ward and Fuck anything ealse east of Poland, Ohio.
Damn ghoolie, give me a helmet and get me in the game! You're firing my happy ass up!
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
And I understand that, completely. I have most certainly thrown out my share of vitriol, trash and irritation. NOt making excuses, but that's just me, I come off like an inflexible, asshole drill seargent. I get it.
But here is the other factor for me. Being a Browns fans since I can first remember, probably 1960, at 6 years old, I have a pretty big Browns database to mangage. IN all honesty, I couldn't warm up to this team as I did the older ones. I don't mean to start shit about real and fake Browns, but my point is it was about me. You know, like a kid from a broken home who couldn't warm up to some new guy sleeping with his Mom.
Maybe I just needed enought time to pass, or perhaps I am just mentally slow, but whatever it is, this Browns team is my Browns team. This Browns team IS THe Browns.
All this unrealistic bullshit about we have to win next year or else, is just that, it is unrealistic bullshit.
Before this team can win it has to learn to play with passion, discipline and pride. It needs to be cohesive, execute properly and hopefully among the players, begin to build a team/family or what ever horseshit you want to call it.
I am sorry, but a team as fragile as ours couldn't afford the noise of a Hillis. The only thing the Browns must do in 2012, is start doing all that happy horseshit that successful teams and organizations do. When that happens, guys have opportunities to make plays; they feel a responsibility to make plays, and a responsibility to be better representatives of the team.
Hoorta has always been big on players with class and respect. I used to pull his nutsack off about how that shit doesn't matter and we just need playmakers. Well, I think both of these things are important.
I know this much, I have my 1964 throwback jacket ready to wear and while I am not pushing throught the summer, I WILL be ready to see the Browns finally heading in the right direction. I'll say it again, Homgrens stock went up greatly with me when I saw him stay calm, focused and with Heckert producing a draft that has high probability of good things for us.
I hate to swear, but man, I have been building this up for 10 years now. Fuck Pittsburgh. Fuck their lucky SB wins. Fuck Cowher, Fuck Big Ben, Fuck Ward and Fuck anything ealse east of Poland, Ohio.
I agree and I think you can see this starting to happen on the team with some the the younger guys. I think our group of DB's have what you are talking about. Both Haden and Ward show so much passion for the game and for the city that you would think they were actually borthers and they have really been pulling other young defenders into the fold such as Taylor who I constantly read is doing things in the Cleveland community and talking about how much he likes the city and team.
One area of the team that needs to work on this is the O-Line and I think that has been the reason they have under performed the past few seasons. Obviously RT has been a huge issue but it seems like since Thomas was stuck being the only good OL for a few season he just kind of worries about himself and at most only worried about his side of the line. We could see the camaraderie that Thomas, Steinbach, and Mack shared but there is still two other people on the line and every interview you here all 3 of those guys talking about the left side this the left side that while our right side was a revolving door.
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"One area of the team that needs to work on this is the O-Line and I think that has been the reason they have under performed the past few seasons. Obviously RT has been a huge issue but it seems like since Thomas was stuck being the only good OL for a few season he just kind of worries about himself and at most only worried about his side of the line. We could see the camaraderie that Thomas, Steinbach, and Mack shared but there is still two other people on the line and every interview you here all 3 of those guys talking about the left side this the left side that while our right side was a revolving door."
Is this fact?
Thomas in my opinion has been a great teammate- look what he did with Sheard last training camp. I think Pinkston showed improvement as well can we attribute some of that to the guys around him. As far as the play on the field and helping during a game- All Thomas does is lock down a defender (usually the teams best pash rusher) if you or anyone else wants him to stand on his head and do the job of three other lineman we have to look at expectations.
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"One area of the team that needs to work on this is the O-Line and I think that has been the reason they have under performed the past few seasons. Obviously RT has been a huge issue but it seems like since Thomas was stuck being the only good OL for a few season he just kind of worries about himself and at most only worried about his side of the line. We could see the camaraderie that Thomas, Steinbach, and Mack shared but there is still two other people on the line and every interview you here all 3 of those guys talking about the left side this the left side that while our right side was a revolving door."
Is this fact?
Thomas in my opinion has been a great teammate- look what he did with Sheard last training camp. I think Pinkston showed improvement as well can we attribute some of that to the guys around him. As far as the play on the field and helping during a game- All Thomas does is lock down a defender (usually the teams best pash rusher) if you or anyone else wants him to stand on his head and do the job of three other lineman we have to look at expectations.
"One area of the team that needs to work on this is the O-Line and I think that has been the reason they have under performed the past few seasons. Obviously RT has been a huge issue but it seems like since Thomas was stuck being the only good OL for a few season he just kind of worries about himself and at most only worried about his side of the line. We could see the camaraderie that Thomas, Steinbach, and Mack shared but there is still two other people on the line and every interview you here all 3 of those guys talking about the left side this the left side that while our right side was a revolving door."
Is this fact?
Thomas in my opinion has been a great teammate- look what he did with Sheard last training camp. I think Pinkston showed improvement as well can we attribute some of that to the guys around him. As far as the play on the field and helping during a game- All Thomas does is lock down a defender (usually the teams best pash rusher) if you or anyone else wants him to stand on his head and do the job of three other lineman we have to look at expectations.
He didn't help Sheard he just went out there and did his job and Sheard had to go against him. Sheard got better because he had to go against Thomas not because Thomas took him under his wing. And yes he helped Pinkston because as I said he cares about the left side, not the line. Why didn't he take Lauvou under his wing and help him out on the sidelines and in the huddle. When Cousins got tossed in there why wasn't he trying to help him learn his plays and work on his pass blocking. Cause he doesn't care about that side and the O-Line as a whole group hasn't been able to form a solid camaraderie. I'm not saying Thomas isn't a good player and I am not saying there is even anything wrong with is attitude, I am saying the line as a whole hasn't formed that attitude that we are talking about.
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Aug 9. Grossi in the PD... " "Thomas said, "A good tackle, if you notice [the defensive end is] leaning [with head down] like that, they'll just take you and throw you down to the dirt and bounce your head off the ground. It's a quick learning lesson."
That happened a few times to Sheard in the first week of practice, when Thomas was mostly preoccupied with his own assignments in the new offense. He told Sheard to give him a week or so and then he would teach him a few things, and that's what is taking place now.
"[Teaching him] whether he's giving anything away or if there's anything he does consistently that the tackle's going to pick up on," Thomas said. "Just how to play a tackle during a game, whether it's the first rush, or how to set him up during a game." " Is this the definition of taking someone under their wing- if not what is? "Why didn't he take Lauvou under his wing and help him out on the sidelines and in the huddle." Do you have an insider perspective that we don't know about. Maybe he did and Lauvou just isn't that good.
When Cousins got tossed in there why wasn't he trying to help him learn his plays and work on his pass blocking. What do you want during the season you have 5 days to watch film and heal your wounds from the week before. Again Do you have an insider perspective that we don't know about. Maybe he did and Cousins just isn't that good.
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Aug 9. Grossi in the PD... " "Thomas said, "A good tackle, if you notice [the defensive end is] leaning [with head down] like that, they'll just take you and throw you down to the dirt and bounce your head off the ground. It's a quick learning lesson."
That happened a few times to Sheard in the first week of practice, when Thomas was mostly preoccupied with his own assignments in the new offense. He told Sheard to give him a week or so and then he would teach him a few things, and that's what is taking place now.
"[Teaching him] whether he's giving anything away or if there's anything he does consistently that the tackle's going to pick up on," Thomas said. "Just how to play a tackle during a game, whether it's the first rush, or how to set him up during a game." " Is this the definition of taking someone under their wing- if not what is? "Why didn't he take Lauvou under his wing and help him out on the sidelines and in the huddle." Do you have an insider perspective that we don't know about. Maybe he did and Lauvou just isn't that good.
When Cousins got tossed in there why wasn't he trying to help him learn his plays and work on his pass blocking. What do you want during the season you have 5 days to watch film and heal your wounds from the week before. Again Do you have an insider perspective that we don't know about. Maybe he did and Cousins just isn't that good.
Aug 9. Grossi in the PD... " "Thomas said, "A good tackle, if you notice [the defensive end is] leaning [with head down] like that, they'll just take you and throw you down to the dirt and bounce your head off the ground. It's a quick learning lesson."
That happened a few times to Sheard in the first week of practice, when Thomas was mostly preoccupied with his own assignments in the new offense. He told Sheard to give him a week or so and then he would teach him a few things, and that's what is taking place now.
"[Teaching him] whether he's giving anything away or if there's anything he does consistently that the tackle's going to pick up on," Thomas said. "Just how to play a tackle during a game, whether it's the first rush, or how to set him up during a game." " Is this the definition of taking someone under their wing- if not what is? "Why didn't he take Lauvou under his wing and help him out on the sidelines and in the huddle." Do you have an insider perspective that we don't know about. Maybe he did and Lauvou just isn't that good.
When Cousins got tossed in there why wasn't he trying to help him learn his plays and work on his pass blocking. What do you want during the season you have 5 days to watch film and heal your wounds from the week before. Again Do you have an insider perspective that we don't know about. Maybe he did and Cousins just isn't that good.
If any help was being offered to anyone other than Pinkston they would have said something. They didn't. You have as much perspective as me so just cause your so far up Thomas' ass it's just making see through his shit colored glasses. As previously stated this is about the whole O-Line group not forming a total bond. The left side between Thomas and Mack have one but they haven't tried to including the whole line.
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Oh, frickin baloney. Inventing something to fraudulently bitch about seems like a waste of time, don'tcha think?
Seriously....
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Aug 9. Grossi in the PD... " "Thomas said, "A good tackle, if you notice [the defensive end is] leaning [with head down] like that, they'll just take you and throw you down to the dirt and bounce your head off the ground. It's a quick learning lesson."
That happened a few times to Sheard in the first week of practice, when Thomas was mostly preoccupied with his own assignments in the new offense. He told Sheard to give him a week or so and then he would teach him a few things, and that's what is taking place now.
"[Teaching him] whether he's giving anything away or if there's anything he does consistently that the tackle's going to pick up on," Thomas said. "Just how to play a tackle during a game, whether it's the first rush, or how to set him up during a game." " Is this the definition of taking someone under their wing- if not what is? "Why didn't he take Lauvou under his wing and help him out on the sidelines and in the huddle." Do you have an insider perspective that we don't know about. Maybe he did and Lauvou just isn't that good.
When Cousins got tossed in there why wasn't he trying to help him learn his plays and work on his pass blocking. What do you want during the season you have 5 days to watch film and heal your wounds from the week before. Again Do you have an insider perspective that we don't know about. Maybe he did and Cousins just isn't that good.
If any help was being offered to anyone other than Pinkston they would have said something. They didn't. You have as much perspective as me so just cause your so far up Thomas' ass it's just making see through his shit colored glasses. As previously stated this is about the whole O-Line group not forming a total bond. The left side between Thomas and Mack have one but they haven't tried to including the whole line.
If any help was being offered to anyone other than Pinkston they would have said something. They didn't. You have as much perspective as me so just cause your so far up Thomas' ass it's just making see through his shit colored glasses. As previously stated this is about the whole O-Line group not forming a total bond. The left side between Thomas and Mack have one but they haven't tried to including the whole line.
"If any help was being offered to anyone other than Pinkston they would have said something????" Because they have duty to say something. You are right I have the limited perspective like you have so I'm not going to make inferences like you have- I'm going to go off of training camp reports- just like I have from Browns or Ex-Browns reporters- who may not include everything I'm sure, but what they report is as close to fact as you or me the average fan will ever get.
"this is about the whole O-Line group not forming a total bond."- Kinda hard to make a bond with a revolving door at RT, and until recently the guard position. Is this Thomas' fault or even Mack's fault? Do you want them to "train up" Cousins for the waiver wire?
Trying to "include" the whole line sounds childish why doesn't the GM and HC try to include the right people- well it looks like they just have- so now we can all bond- maybe?
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If any help was being offered to anyone other than Pinkston they would have said something. They didn't. You have as much perspective as me so just cause your so far up Thomas' ass it's just making see through his shit colored glasses. As previously stated this is about the whole O-Line group not forming a total bond. The left side between Thomas and Mack have one but they haven't tried to including the whole line.
"If any help was being offered to anyone other than Pinkston they would have said something????" Because they have duty to say something. You are right I have the limited perspective like you have so I'm not going to make inferences like you have- I'm going to go off of training camp reports- just like I have from Browns or Ex-Browns reporters- who may not include everything I'm sure, but what they report is as close to fact as you or me the average fan will ever get.
"this is about the whole O-Line group not forming a total bond."- Kinda hard to make a bond with a revolving door at RT, and until recently the guard position. Is this Thomas' fault or even Mack's fault? Do you want them to "train up" Cousins for the waiver wire?
Trying to "include" the whole line sounds childish why doesn't the GM and HC try to include the right people- well it looks like they just have- so now we can all bond- maybe?
"If any help was being offered to anyone other than Pinkston they would have said something????" Because they have duty to say something. You are right I have the limited perspective like you have so I'm not going to make inferences like you have- I'm going to go off of training camp reports- just like I have from Browns or Ex-Browns reporters- who may not include everything I'm sure, but what they report is as close to fact as you or me the average fan will ever get.
"this is about the whole O-Line group not forming a total bond."- Kinda hard to make a bond with a revolving door at RT, and until recently the guard position. Is this Thomas' fault or even Mack's fault? Do you want them to "train up" Cousins for the waiver wire?
Trying to "include" the whole line sounds childish why doesn't the GM and HC try to include the right people- well it looks like they just have- so now we can all bond- maybe?
So Pinkston gets included his first week playing and Lauvou is never helped even though he was here longer? I'm not even talking about trying to make Cousins a starter I'm just saying there is more than 3 guys on the O-Line and Thomas and Mack only really care about that left side. It doesn't matter who you have on the line there are 5 guys so why are our 2 pro bowlers on that line only focusing on helping themselves? They need to care about the whole group including backups, not just the themselves as the starting left side.
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"It doesn't matter who you have on the line there are 5 guys so why are our 2 pro bowlers on that line only focusing on helping themselves? They need to care about the whole group including backups, not just the themselves as the starting left side."
I don't agree with this. This is a High School football mentality. These are grown men that make a living and our responsible for their own performance or they wait by the phone for the next opportunity. They meet around the clock to prepare for an opponent studying film and doing walk throughs. Aaron Rodgers complained about Brett Farve- not really stepping up and mentoring but Packer fans and writers didn't come to his rescue- they probably thought take responsibility and learn the position.
Alex Mack and Joe Thomas have enough to worry about. It appears by reports that Joe Thomas worries about others as well- nothing was reported about Alex Mack but can we just leap to a conclusion that he doesn't help others?
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"It doesn't matter who you have on the line there are 5 guys so why are our 2 pro bowlers on that line only focusing on helping themselves? They need to care about the whole group including backups, not just the themselves as the starting left side."
I don't agree with this. This is a High School football mentality. These are grown men that make a living and our responsible for their own performance or they wait by the phone for the next opportunity. They meet around the clock to prepare for an opponent studying film and doing walk throughs. Aaron Rodgers complained about Brett Farve- not really stepping up and mentoring but Packer fans and writers didn't come to his rescue- they probably thought take responsibility and learn the position.
Alex Mack and Joe Thomas have enough to worry about. It appears by reports that Joe Thomas worries about others as well- nothing was reported about Alex Mack but can we just leap to a conclusion that he doesn't help others?
"It doesn't matter who you have on the line there are 5 guys so why are our 2 pro bowlers on that line only focusing on helping themselves? They need to care about the whole group including backups, not just the themselves as the starting left side."
I don't agree with this. This is a High School football mentality. These are grown men that make a living and our responsible for their own performance or they wait by the phone for the next opportunity. They meet around the clock to prepare for an opponent studying film and doing walk throughs. Aaron Rodgers complained about Brett Farve- not really stepping up and mentoring but Packer fans and writers didn't come to his rescue- they probably thought take responsibility and learn the position.
Alex Mack and Joe Thomas have enough to worry about. It appears by reports that Joe Thomas worries about others as well- nothing was reported about Alex Mack but can we just leap to a conclusion that he doesn't help others?
It's not necessarily coaching every player on the line. Yes you have a job and when it comes to game time you come first but within Thomas's 5 years on the team and Macks 3 our O-Line in any year has failed to form any kind of nucleus or group mentality past just the starting left side, the side that starts and ends with Thomas and Mack. Who ever is the lucky duck to play between them is going to be included but who ever plays at RG and RT has been left out. Every major group should form this kind of nucleus, a tight nit group. As I said out DB have formed this group, our O-Line hasn't even tried.
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"It doesn't matter who you have on the line there are 5 guys so why are our 2 pro bowlers on that line only focusing on helping themselves? They need to care about the whole group including backups, not just the themselves as the starting left side."
I don't agree with this. This is a High School football mentality. These are grown men that make a living and our responsible for their own performance or they wait by the phone for the next opportunity. They meet around the clock to prepare for an opponent studying film and doing walk throughs. Aaron Rodgers complained about Brett Farve- not really stepping up and mentoring but Packer fans and writers didn't come to his rescue- they probably thought take responsibility and learn the position.
Alex Mack and Joe Thomas have enough to worry about. It appears by reports that Joe Thomas worries about others as well- nothing was reported about Alex Mack but can we just leap to a conclusion that he doesn't help others?
It's not necessarily coaching every player on the line. Yes you have a job and when it comes to game time you come first but within Thomas's 5 years on the team and Macks 3 our O-Line in any year has failed to form any kind of nucleus or group mentality past just the starting left side, the side that starts and ends with Thomas and Mack. Who ever is the lucky duck to play between them is going to be included but who ever plays at RG and RT has been left out. Every major group should form this kind of nucleus, a tight nit group. As I said out DB have formed this group, our O-Line hasn't even tried.
It's not necessarily coaching every player on the line. Yes you have a job and when it comes to game time you come first but within Thomas's 5 years on the team and Macks 3 our O-Line in any year has failed to form any kind of nucleus or group mentality past just the starting left side, the side that starts and ends with Thomas and Mack. Who ever is the lucky duck to play between them is going to be included but who ever plays at RG and RT has been left out. Every major group should form this kind of nucleus, a tight nit group. As I said out DB have formed this group, our O-Line hasn't even tried.
I'll maintain...
1. How do you know? For all we know Mack and Lavauo watch film together and discuss DTs each week. Thomas and Pashos possibly shared notes on pass rushers figuring at any moment a team could line a pash rusher on the other side.
2. Talent goes a long ways- coach'em mentor'em up do whatever you want but when you have a revolving door (injuries or guys not cutting it) at the other positions a new nucleus will never take shape. I'm very hopeful moving forward- although I hope th eBrowns consider at a guy like Macrus McNeil so Schwartz can learn for a year and is not just thrown into the mix.
3. I think the mentality of pro football is closer to Take care of your own and you ultimately take care of the team. There is too much prep. to worry about the next guy- OTAs, rookie camps, training camp- I'm sure there is sharing and learning amongst each other, but yo uhave a certain responsibilty to take care of yourself when your a big boy making a living.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
I think this team also suffered a lot form being the new franchise that wasn't expected to win for awhile. The ealry team had a lot of nonchalant players just getting a paycheck and passing through. I think for the longest time that attitude polluted the team. Some guys, like Cribbs for instance, brought it every week. Enough slackers I think weighed this team down.
The one thing about youth is that sins and habits of the past, sooner or later fade out.
Just as Jim Brown's era has faded, I think so too has our lackluster return started to fade out. Young guys coming here now want to win. Hey want to make a name for themselves and they don't care about all the shit that has gone before.
Wins aside, I believe the 2012 season will be the most enjoyable season we have had since Lerner brought the team back. I think we will see hits, catches, plays and players who actually give a shit. I think we have enough new blood now that the dead weight players are going to stand out like a sore thumb.
I'm gonna get a Trent Richardson Jersey. I haven't worn a number jersey since #17, and that was a long time ago.
GO Browns!
Smelley is taking #47
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