As Usual, No Respect
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Nevermind. As usual I have to gather the facts.
Steelers official website lists its defensive starters. I did not see ages, but it did give "years of experience":
NT Casey Hampton 12 years
LDE Ziggy Hood 4 years
RDE Bret Keisel 11 years
LOLB Woodley 6 years
LILB Sylvester Stevenson 3 years
RILB Lawrence 6 years
ROLB James Harrison 9 years
FS Ryan Clark 11 years
SS Troy Polamalu 10 years
RCB Ike Taylor 10 years
LCB Anthony Madison 6 years
Even without Smith and Farrior there appear to be 6 starters over 30.
Obviously many players can certainly play well well into their 30s, and certainly several of these may. And just as obvious, it is entirely possible that some of these will replaced as first team on the depth chart by younger players (you mentioned Cameron Heyward)
Just don't say that age isn't a potential issue.
Nevermind. As usual I have to gather the facts.
Steelers official website lists its defensive starters. I did not see ages, but it did give "years of experience":
NT Casey Hampton 12 years
LDE Ziggy Hood 4 years
RDE Bret Keisel 11 years
LOLB Woodley 6 years
LILB Sylvester Stevenson 3 years
RILB Lawrence 6 years
ROLB James Harrison 9 years
FS Ryan Clark 11 years
SS Troy Polamalu 10 years
RCB Ike Taylor 10 years
LCB Anthony Madison 6 years
Even without Smith and Farrior there appear to be 6 starters over 30.
Obviously many players can certainly play well well into their 30s, and certainly several of these may. And just as obvious, it is entirely possible that some of these will replaced as first team on the depth chart by younger players (you mentioned Cameron Heyward)
Just don't say that age isn't a potential issue.
Wow, that's old. Real old for NFL standards.
Not sure why they are drafting a guard in the first round with alll those greybeards on defense.
Last year I correctly predicted the Steelers making the playoffs because I knew they had one year left in them. This year I will correctly predict they will land in fourth place because they will. The other teams are younger and have been drafting better for three or four years now. They drop to the bottom this year and it may take a few years to get back up this time.
Zombo
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They were last year.
And since you are being so smug, tell us this: which AFCN defense will have the biggest dropoff from last year.
And how do you figure your offense is shaping up to be so much better than last year? A couple of offensive line choices?
I don't think you're going to see a defensive drop off from any of the teams in the North. As far as the offense is concerned the team is healthy which is the biggest thing, outside of Mendenhall and then the draft. DeCastro starts immediately and I'd wager that Adams will play right tackle or left tackle, plus the addition of Todd Haley. Bruce Arians held back our offense no matter what Ben has to say on the matter and it's precisely the reason he's gone. We had 2 1000 yard receivers last season and a patch work offensive line because of injuries. Our offensive line is going to be vastly improved and Todd Haley should make a enormous difference.
Chris Rainey is also going to surprise.
Homotron said:
I don't think you're going to see a defensive drop off from any of the teams in the North. As far as the offense is concerned the team is healthy which is the biggest thing, outside of Mendenhall and then the draft. DeCastro starts immediately and I'd wager that Adams will play right tackle or left tackle, plus the addition of Todd Haley. Bruce Arians held back our offense no matter what Ben has to say on the matter and it's precisely the reason he's gone. We had 2 1000 yard receivers last season and a patch work offensive line because of injuries. Our offensive line is going to be vastly improved and Todd Haley should make a enormous difference.
Chris Rainey is also going to surprise.
My general perception is that Haley is an upgrade from Arians. I personally don't see why KC let him go in favor of RAC.
And Rainey was a guy some of us around here had our eye on if the Browns didn't take TR. He is a speedster, so yes, he could be a contributor.
But, I think you are wrong. Somebodies defense in this division is going to take a plunge. (Not necessarily from Top 10 to Bottom 10, but from Top ten to middle). The Steelers are as good a candidate as any to do that.
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The Steelers have offensive talent, lots of offensive talent, especially through the air. They could have the 3rd best offense in the league in 2012 (behind NE and GB). As stated many times the Steelers are long in the tooth on defense. How they pulled out the #1 overall rating last year is astounding, but it's mostly based on total yards allowed. The Steelers sucked in the sack/pressure department last year, and they can't hope to skate by with such low totals again this year. Their back-ups/second teamers showed occassional flashes last year, but there's no evidence that they have what it takes to cure their sack/pressure problems.
As for coaches let go, I think they let the wrong one go. It was the defense that let the team down during the Baltimore rematch. That game cost the Steelers the #1 seed, some much needed rest and really the team's only hope for a Super Bowl run. (Or if you want you can thank the Browns for injuring Ben, but he held the damned ball way freaking too long on that play). Further, it was the defense that lost the Denver play-off game last year. Tebow torched us through the air all game and LeBeau left Ike "I can't cover a pee-wee league player today" Taylor all alone on an island. Really?
Arians had his selection of head-scratching play-calls that followed him from his days in Cleveland. His reluctance to let Ben use the no-huddle was at times perplexing. However, Arians opened up the offense. He didn't force that boring ground-n-pound game Cowher so loved. He utilized his players skills about 85% of the time, and the other 15% he tried to use his genius were, well, not overly effective. He was fired, plain and simply, because the owner wanted to see the ball run more often. The owner wants to see an offense like those led by Jerome Bettis and Franco Harris. The Steelers don't have that type of Running Back, they can't play that type of game. Mendenhall isn't a smash-mouth runner and he won't even be available for most/all of the season. Todd Haley appears to be a really good selection for Offensive Coordinator, time will tell if he is better than Arians was.
The Browns biggest problem in 2011 was run defense. They really haven't addressed their defense that much this off-season. I suppose they are hoping Rucker/Parker can challenge for a starting role, but neither has a track record that says it will/should happen. The Browns have youth and speed on defense, plus they are one year into their new system. They should be better and if they can shore up that run defense I would expect it to catapult them probably into the top 5 defense overall. Plus, they got Richardson and he alone will make their entire defense better, because he'll burn time off the clock. Rainey is a far cry from Richardson. Isaac Redman hasn't shown he can carry the load. The Steelers can't grind the ball 50 yards with Redman and hope to win, cause at the end of the year he kept fumbling the ball.
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The Steelers have offensive talent, lots of offensive talent, especially through the air. They could have the 3rd best offense in the league in 2012 (behind NE and GB). As stated many times the Steelers are long in the tooth on defense. How they pulled out the #1 overall rating last year is astounding, but it's mostly based on total yards allowed. The Steelers sucked in the sack/pressure department last year, and they can't hope to skate by with such low totals again this year. Their back-ups/second teamers showed occassional flashes last year, but there's no evidence that they have what it takes to cure their sack/pressure problems.
As for coaches let go, I think they let the wrong one go. It was the defense that let the team down during the Baltimore rematch. That game cost the Steelers the #1 seed, some much needed rest and really the team's only hope for a Super Bowl run. (Or if you want you can thank the Browns for injuring Ben, but he held the damned ball way freaking too long on that play). Further, it was the defense that lost the Denver play-off game last year. Tebow torched us through the air all game and LeBeau left Ike "I can't cover a pee-wee league player today" Taylor all alone on an island. Really?
Arians had his selection of head-scratching play-calls that followed him from his days in Cleveland. His reluctance to let Ben use the no-huddle was at times perplexing. However, Arians opened up the offense. He didn't force that boring ground-n-pound game Cowher so loved. He utilized his players skills about 85% of the time, and the other 15% he tried to use his genius were, well, not overly effective. He was fired, plain and simply, because the owner wanted to see the ball run more often. The owner wants to see an offense like those led by Jerome Bettis and Franco Harris. The Steelers don't have that type of Running Back, they can't play that type of game. Mendenhall isn't a smash-mouth runner and he won't even be available for most/all of the season. Todd Haley appears to be a really good selection for Offensive Coordinator, time will tell if he is better than Arians was.
The Browns biggest problem in 2011 was run defense. They really haven't addressed their defense that much this off-season. I suppose they are hoping Rucker/Parker can challenge for a starting role, but neither has a track record that says it will/should happen. The Browns have youth and speed on defense, plus they are one year into their new system. They should be better and if they can shore up that run defense I would expect it to catapult them probably into the top 5 defense overall. Plus, they got Richardson and he alone will make their entire defense better, because he'll burn time off the clock. Rainey is a far cry from Richardson. Isaac Redman hasn't shown he can carry the load. The Steelers can't grind the ball 50 yards with Redman and hope to win, cause at the end of the year he kept fumbling the ball.
Endymion said:
The Steelers have offensive talent, lots of offensive talent, especially through the air. They could have the 3rd best offense in the league in 2012 (behind NE and GB). As stated many times the Steelers are long in the tooth on defense. How they pulled out the #1 overall rating last year is astounding, but it's mostly based on total yards allowed. The Steelers sucked in the sack/pressure department last year, and they can't hope to skate by with such low totals again this year. Their back-ups/second teamers showed occassional flashes last year, but there's no evidence that they have what it takes to cure their sack/pressure problems.
As for coaches let go, I think they let the wrong one go. It was the defense that let the team down during the Baltimore rematch. That game cost the Steelers the #1 seed, some much needed rest and really the team's only hope for a Super Bowl run. (Or if you want you can thank the Browns for injuring Ben, but he held the damned ball way freaking too long on that play). Further, it was the defense that lost the Denver play-off game last year. Tebow torched us through the air all game and LeBeau left Ike "I can't cover a pee-wee league player today" Taylor all alone on an island. Really?
Arians had his selection of head-scratching play-calls that followed him from his days in Cleveland. His reluctance to let Ben use the no-huddle was at times perplexing. However, Arians opened up the offense. He didn't force that boring ground-n-pound game Cowher so loved. He utilized his players skills about 85% of the time, and the other 15% he tried to use his genius were, well, not overly effective. He was fired, plain and simply, because the owner wanted to see the ball run more often. The owner wants to see an offense like those led by Jerome Bettis and Franco Harris. The Steelers don't have that type of Running Back, they can't play that type of game. Mendenhall isn't a smash-mouth runner and he won't even be available for most/all of the season. Todd Haley appears to be a really good selection for Offensive Coordinator, time will tell if he is better than Arians was.
I will let you and the Homo to fight it out about what the Steelers do or don't need.
The Browns biggest problem in 2011 was run defense.
On that side of the ball, yes. Though most view the offense of last year every bit as bad as the run defense.
They really haven't addressed their defense that much this off-season. I suppose they are hoping Rucker/Parker can challenge for a starting role, but neither has a track record that says it will/should happen.
Well, your buddy boy there discounts the acquisition of The Sausage King, but the fact is that is precisely what he and Billy Winn were drafted to do: shore up the run defense in the middle, and the new LBs Acho and Johnson the OLB spots. That is the Browns biggest problem on defense in my view, those OLBs. Who knows if these rookies can do the job. The only guy who is convinced that rookies will always do what he wants them to do in Homotron. The Steeler never make a bad draft choice, their backups are always ready to come in and play. They are always the greatest thing since sliced cheese.
The Browns have youth and speed on defense, plus they are one year into their new system. They should be better and if they can shore up that run defense I would expect it to catapult them probably into the top 5 defense overall. Plus, they got Richardson and he alone will make their entire defense better, because he'll burn time off the clock. Rainey is a far cry from Richardson. Isaac Redman hasn't shown he can carry the load. The Steelers can't grind the ball 50 yards with Redman and hope to win, cause at the end of the year he kept fumbling the ball.
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Gipper I at no point said all the Steeler draft picks pan out. However what I did say is that the Steelers consistently draft well and the guys I listed as "back ups" were drafted in the 1st or second round and made the necessary strides to contribute and contribute at a high level. I could rifle off a host of recent Steeler draft misses. Limas Sweed being possibly the most notable, Bruce Davis, Dennis Dixon. They knocked it out of the park this year. It's the most excited I've been with a draft class since I've been on this planet. They got "Draft steals" in the first 5 rounds of the draft an I expect the first 5 picks to hit the field as rookies. DeCastro and Adams are both expected to start. Spence and Rainey are going to be special teams aces and Haley has a history of utilizing the scat back types in his offense. The big Samoan is also going to surprise. He should have gone much higher than he did.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
Gipper I at no point said all the Steeler draft picks pan out. However what I did say is that the Steelers consistently draft well and the guys I listed as "back ups" were drafted in the 1st or second round and made the necessary strides to contribute and contribute at a high level. I could rifle off a host of recent Steeler draft misses. Limas Sweed being possibly the most notable, Bruce Davis, Dennis Dixon. They knocked it out of the park this year. It's the most excited I've been with a draft class since I've been on this planet. They got "Draft steals" in the first 5 rounds of the draft an I expect the first 5 picks to hit the field as rookies. DeCastro and Adams are both expected to start. Spence and Rainey are going to be special teams aces and Haley has a history of utilizing the scat back types in his offense. The big Samoan is also going to surprise. He should have gone much higher than he did.
Homotron said:
Gipper I at no point said all the Steeler draft picks pan out. However what I did say is that the Steelers consistently draft well and the guys I listed as "back ups" were drafted in the 1st or second round and made the necessary strides to contribute and contribute at a high level. I could rifle off a host of recent Steeler draft misses. Limas Sweed being possibly the most notable, Bruce Davis, Dennis Dixon. They knocked it out of the park this year. It's the most excited I've been with a draft class since I've been on this planet. They got "Draft steals" in the first 5 rounds of the draft an I expect the first 5 picks to hit the field as rookies. DeCastro and Adams are both expected to start. Spence and Rainey are going to be special teams aces and Haley has a history of utilizing the scat back types in his offense. The big Samoan is also going to surprise. He should have gone much higher than he did.
Let them play first before you get too excited. I've seen you compare this draft the the 74 draft at least twice before they've even played. Your making PoeticG seem like a pessimist.
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Homotron said:
Gipper I at no point said all the Steeler draft picks pan out. However what I did say is that the Steelers consistently draft well and the guys I listed as "back ups" were drafted in the 1st or second round and made the necessary strides to contribute and contribute at a high level. I could rifle off a host of recent Steeler draft misses. Limas Sweed being possibly the most notable, Bruce Davis, Dennis Dixon. They knocked it out of the park this year. It's the most excited I've been with a draft class since I've been on this planet. They got "Draft steals" in the first 5 rounds of the draft an I expect the first 5 picks to hit the field as rookies. DeCastro and Adams are both expected to start. Spence and Rainey are going to be special teams aces and Haley has a history of utilizing the scat back types in his offense. The big Samoan is also going to surprise. He should have gone much higher than he did.
Let them play first before you get too excited. I've seen you compare this draft the the 74 draft at least twice before they've even played. Your making PoeticG seem like a pessimist.
Let them play first before you get too excited. I've seen you compare this draft the the 74 draft at least twice before they've even played. Your making PoeticG seem like a pessimist.
Oh i'm not drawing a direct comparison. I'm simply saying it's the most excited I've been about a draft since I've been a Steeler fan and if all the picks hit like it seems they will it's going to be a damn good draft. It's not logical to make a direct comparison to the 74' draft considering the hall of famers, doing that would definitely be a cart before the horse scenario. The Steelers did own the draft though, i don't think there is any denying it.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
Let them play first before you get too excited. I've seen you compare this draft the the 74 draft at least twice before they've even played. Your making PoeticG seem like a pessimist.
Oh i'm not drawing a direct comparison. I'm simply saying it's the most excited I've been about a draft since I've been a Steeler fan and if all the picks hit like it seems they will it's going to be a damn good draft. It's not logical to make a direct comparison to the 74' draft considering the hall of famers, doing that would definitely be a cart before the horse scenario. The Steelers did own the draft though, i don't think there is any denying it.
Homotron said:
Oh i'm not drawing a direct comparison. I'm simply saying it's the most excited I've been about a draft since I've been a Steeler fan and if all the picks hit like it seems they will it's going to be a damn good draft. It's not logical to make a direct comparison to the 74' draft considering the hall of famers, doing that would definitely be a cart before the horse scenario. The Steelers did own the draft though, i don't think there is any denying it.
Like I said lets wait for them to play. Nobody knows who owned a certain draft until at least a couple of years down the road. For all we know the Saints could end up having the best draft. We just don't know yet.
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Also this. I've never understood Pennsylvania's liquor laws.
Yea it's a strange law but there are a bunch of loop holes. Giant Eagle out this way has beer but that's the extent of it and they have it because they set up little cafes in their stores. You essentially have to sell food to be able to sell beer. We have a lot of great little six pack shops that have sprung up and a few in particular that carry a ton of stuff but in each instance they have a restaurant attached to permit it. We have the State stores and honestly I'm used to it. I spent a lot of time in Ohio for college and then living outside Columbus two years and very rarely went to the gas station to pick up beer. However I'm also a bit of a beer snob and most gas stations don't carry the better micro brews.
As far as ESPN is concerned it's been a joke for a while. I read it for the blatant news but very rarely give a sh.it on what they have to say about anything, at least with Football. They've simply been engrained on society.
Homotron said:
Yea it's a strange law but there are a bunch of loop holes. Giant Eagle out this way has beer but that's the extent of it and they have it because they set up little cafes in their stores. You essentially have to sell food to be able to sell beer. We have a lot of great little six pack shops that have sprung up and a few in particular that carry a ton of stuff but in each instance they have a restaurant attached to permit it. We have the State stores and honestly I'm used to it. I spent a lot of time in Ohio for college and then living outside Columbus two years and very rarely went to the gas station to pick up beer. However I'm also a bit of a beer snob and most gas stations don't carry the better micro brews.
i guess sheetz has also applied for a license, as they meet the food and seating requirements. not that it matters to me tho....like you, i dont drink shit beer.
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Endymion said:
Based on what I know of the Steelers, I expect their offense to be much improved this year. I would expect a leap into the top 10 offenses (from 21st), especially if the draft picks pan out and provide Ben with some much needed protection.
The real test of LeBeau comes this year. He's lost some core components to the defense, and those that remain appear to have lost some steps with age. If the Steelers defense finishes in the top 10 this year, then LeBeau worked some kind of miracle or a re-established run-game came to the rescue. There are other great defensive minds in the NFL, and I'd wager the Steelers have a better than 50/50 chance of landing one when LeBeau retires. Regardless, their is a talent/experience drain on the Steelers defense that will continue through at least the 2013 season.
I think the Steelers need to adopt the GB/NE model to make the play-offs this year. If they don't then I expect the prognosticators to be correct about our demise. If Steelers do embrace that model our owner will be an unhappy camper. Defense may win championships, but the 2012 Steelers defense definately won't. Further, I think Pittsburgh will have the worst defense in the AFC North.
Besides, Dick Jauron is an excellent defensive coach and I won't be surprised if the Browns had one of the top defensive units in the league this year. Not to mention your seems to have some good talent collecting on its' defense. If Rucker and Parker can keep you from getting gashed in the run game, I don't see many teams scoring more than 16 points against you. I just don't see your offense scoring any points and that means I don't see many wins in store for the Browns in 2012.
Who remains that has lost a step? The guys that lost a step are gone. Farrior and Aaron Smith. Aaron Smith played in spots this past season and never returned to form. James Farrior became a liability in pass coverage. They drafted Ziggy Hood and Cam Heyward to replace on the aging d-line and just drafted Hampton's eventual replacement. The biggest defensive question mark is going to be nose tackle but beyond that the team is as good as it's ever been. Curtis Brown and Cortez Allen are both primed to play a more expanded role and I don't believe for a second our line backing core will miss a beat without Farrior. Foote is still very solid and he knows the defense and we still have Stevenson Sylvester and we just drafted Spence. We also have our defensive coordinator replacement already on the team. Keith Butler our linebacker coach. The guy has turned down at least 3 defensive coordinator positions elsewhere because he's the heir apparent and the Steelers have told him as much. I'm not AT ALL worried about when Lebeau decides to hang them up. Butler has been under him for a long time and he's a special Coach in his own right, otherwise the Steelers wouldn't have assured him the job was his when Lebeau hangs them up. The Steelers reload in every single draft.
I also think you're bat sh.it crazy to suggest the Steelers will have the worst defense in the AFC North. The aging defense is as young as it's ever been with Aaron Smith and Farrior retiring. We also just drafted DeCastro and Adams and already saw substantial strides from Gilbert. I'm not super excited about Redman being the primary ball carrier but I'm also not worried. DeCastro is plug and play and Adams may crack the line up as a rookie. Colon could very well end up at guard and our line goes from marginal to very good over night. Our run game WILL be improved, not to mention the coordinator change to a guy that does what works all the time. The Steelers are going to make some substantial strides this season. Arians was a major hang up.
EDIT: And Dick Lebeau is the man BUT he's not the reason these players are good, they'd be good on other teams. I'd also love a explanation for the "wrought iron term". Frankly Gipper you don't know enough about the roster to even make this comment. The players that are now gone have been replaced with talent just as good at this stage or better. Aaron Smith is gone because he had lost it, Farrior the same. It's what the Steelers do, make the tough decisions and continue to improve. I'll be shocked if the defense isn't inside the top 10 this coming season, absolutely shocked.
2nd edit: If there is a defensive question mark it's at either safety position. If Clark or Polamalu go down we're going to have a tough time because there isn't much behind them. Unless Myron Rolle can prove that he's not focused on football and ready to prove his worth as a safety in the league. He certainly has the smarts and good size.
Homotron said:
Who remains that has lost a step? The guys that lost a step are gone. Farrior and Aaron Smith. Aaron Smith played in spots this past season and never returned to form. James Farrior became a liability in pass coverage. They drafted Ziggy Hood and Cam Heyward to replace on the aging d-line and just drafted Hampton's eventual replacement. The biggest defensive question mark is going to be nose tackle but beyond that the team is as good as it's ever been. Curtis Brown and Cortez Allen are both primed to play a more expanded role and I don't believe for a second our line backing core will miss a beat without Farrior. Foote is still very solid and he knows the defense and we still have Stevenson Sylvester and we just drafted Spence. We also have our defensive coordinator replacement already on the team. Keith Butler our linebacker coach. The guy has turned down at least 3 defensive coordinator positions elsewhere because he's the heir apparent and the Steelers have told him as much. I'm not AT ALL worried about when Lebeau decides to hang them up. Butler has been under him for a long time and he's a special Coach in his own right, otherwise the Steelers wouldn't have assured him the job was his when Lebeau hangs them up. The Steelers reload in every single draft.
I also think you're bat sh.it crazy to suggest the Steelers will have the worst defense in the AFC North. The aging defense is as young as it's ever been with Aaron Smith and Farrior retiring. We also just drafted DeCastro and Adams and already saw substantial strides from Gilbert. I'm not super excited about Redman being the primary ball carrier but I'm also not worried. DeCastro is plug and play and Adams may crack the line up as a rookie. Colon could very well end up at guard and our line goes from marginal to very good over night. Our run game WILL be improved, not to mention the coordinator change to a guy that does what works all the time. The Steelers are going to make some substantial strides this season. Arians was a major hang up.
EDIT: And Dick Lebeau is the man BUT he's not the reason these players are good, they'd be good on other teams. I'd also love a explanation for the "wrought iron term". Frankly Gipper you don't know enough about the roster to even make this comment. The players that are now gone have been replaced with talent just as good at this stage or better. Aaron Smith is gone because he had lost it, Farrior the same. It's what the Steelers do, make the tough decisions and continue to improve. I'll be shocked if the defense isn't inside the top 10 this coming season, absolutely shocked.
2nd edit: If there is a defensive question mark it's at either safety position. If Clark or Polamalu go down we're going to have a tough time because there isn't much behind them. Unless Myron Rolle can prove that he's not focused on football and ready to prove his worth as a safety in the league. He certainly has the smarts and good size.
Your D Coordinator is why a lot of your players play at a high level and their ability to mesh with each other. You put a lot of those guys in other 3-4 defenses with different players and they simply do not perform to as high of a standard as you are used to seeing.
Homotron said:
Just for the sake of argument how many of those players would start for the Steelers right now? Joe Haden and with Hampton coming off an injury possibly Phil Taylor who was drafted in the first round. I liked Taylor for us in the first round but he obviously didn't fall that far. Beyond those two not one other player would crack our starting line up unless our starter is injured.
More than you think. Just taking per talent into account and not scheme, experiance, or on field relationships Haden would be one of the starting CB and Ward would probably upseat Clark. Then DQ would most likely out perform one of your MLB, and both Taylor and Rubin would make better NT than what you currently have. I don't mention sheard because he does not outperform any of your 3-4 OLB and can't really be compared to a 3-4 DE.
Homotron said:
Ike Taylor is MUCH better than xxxxing Sheldon Brown. I also don't like Sheard or Rubin anymore than anything on our roster currently. Taylor is the exception and i mentioned him above. I also wouldn't start Ward over Ryan Clark especially considering his on field relationship and understanding with Troy.
I wouldn't go that far. They are both losing a step and it shows. I don't know why you don't like Rubin considering he was out performing Hampton when he still played 3-4 NT in the Browns old defense.
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Gipper I at no point said all the Steeler draft picks pan out. However what I did say is that the Steelers consistently draft well and the guys I listed as "back ups" were drafted in the 1st or second round and made the necessary strides to contribute and contribute at a high level. I could rifle off a host of recent Steeler draft misses. Limas Sweed being possibly the most notable, Bruce Davis, Dennis Dixon. They knocked it out of the park this year. It's the most excited I've been with a draft class since I've been on this planet. They got "Draft steals" in the first 5 rounds of the draft an I expect the first 5 picks to hit the field as rookies. DeCastro and Adams are both expected to start. Spence and Rainey are going to be special teams aces and Haley has a history of utilizing the scat back types in his offense. The big Samoan is also going to surprise. He should have gone much higher than he did.
Homotron said:
Gipper I at no point said all the Steeler draft picks pan out. However what I did say is that the Steelers consistently draft well and the guys I listed as "back ups" were drafted in the 1st or second round and made the necessary strides to contribute and contribute at a high level. I could rifle off a host of recent Steeler draft misses. Limas Sweed being possibly the most notable, Bruce Davis, Dennis Dixon. They knocked it out of the park this year.
Again, that is merely an assumption on your part. I don't know about your Che Guevera, but I can tell you as an Ohio State fan that a lot of us were less than impressed by Mike Adams performance this year...and many of us are not surprised when his draft stock began to slip, because he seemed slow footed at times, and weak. Any number of opponents DEs and LBs scooted right around him on their way to the QB, and he was not much of a road grader when it came to the run game. It seemed he had slipped from prior years. Not sure if it was the loss of Tressel...who was OL mentor while he was here, or if it was too much of the weed, or if he just wasn't as good as we thought...but, again, the fact is, Buckeye fans were not as impressed as we felt we should be.
It's the most excited I've been with a draft class since I've been on this planet. They got "Draft steals" in the first 5 rounds of the draft an I expect the first 5 picks to hit the field as rookies. DeCastro and Adams are both expected to start. Spence and Rainey are going to be special teams aces and Haley has a history of utilizing the scat back types in his offense. The big Samoan is also going to surprise. He should have gone much higher than he did.
Well, again, here you are just sounding like Dusty Springfield. Just wishing and hoping ain't necessarily going to get you your man.
The question is whether or not these guys will do some hugging and kissing. They just might end up being cold fish.
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Let them play first before you get too excited. I've seen you compare this draft the the 74 draft at least twice before they've even played. Your making PoeticG seem like a pessimist.
Oh i'm not drawing a direct comparison. I'm simply saying it's the most excited I've been about a draft since I've been a Steeler fan and if all the picks hit like it seems they will it's going to be a damn good draft. It's not logical to make a direct comparison to the 74' draft considering the hall of famers, doing that would definitely be a cart before the horse scenario. The Steelers did own the draft though, i don't think there is any denying it.
Homotron said:
Oh i'm not drawing a direct comparison. I'm simply saying it's the most excited I've been about a draft since I've been a Steeler fan and if all the picks hit like it seems they will it's going to be a damn good draft. It's not logical to make a direct comparison to the 74' draft considering the hall of famers, doing that would definitely be a cart before the horse scenario. The Steelers did own the draft though, i don't think there is any denying it.
Well, we have had many seasons when after the draft we felt the Browns hit one out of the park, when in reality we only hit a dribbler back to the mound.
Its fine to be optimistic....just don't go making any foolish guarantees like it sounds like you are doing.
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Endymion said:
Based on what I know of the Steelers, I expect their offense to be much improved this year. I would expect a leap into the top 10 offenses (from 21st), especially if the draft picks pan out and provide Ben with some much needed protection.
The real test of LeBeau comes this year. He's lost some core components to the defense, and those that remain appear to have lost some steps with age. If the Steelers defense finishes in the top 10 this year, then LeBeau worked some kind of miracle or a re-established run-game came to the rescue. There are other great defensive minds in the NFL, and I'd wager the Steelers have a better than 50/50 chance of landing one when LeBeau retires. Regardless, their is a talent/experience drain on the Steelers defense that will continue through at least the 2013 season.
I think the Steelers need to adopt the GB/NE model to make the play-offs this year. If they don't then I expect the prognosticators to be correct about our demise. If Steelers do embrace that model our owner will be an unhappy camper. Defense may win championships, but the 2012 Steelers defense definately won't. Further, I think Pittsburgh will have the worst defense in the AFC North.
Besides, Dick Jauron is an excellent defensive coach and I won't be surprised if the Browns had one of the top defensive units in the league this year. Not to mention your seems to have some good talent collecting on its' defense. If Rucker and Parker can keep you from getting gashed in the run game, I don't see many teams scoring more than 16 points against you. I just don't see your offense scoring any points and that means I don't see many wins in store for the Browns in 2012.
Who remains that has lost a step? The guys that lost a step are gone. Farrior and Aaron Smith. Aaron Smith played in spots this past season and never returned to form. James Farrior became a liability in pass coverage. They drafted Ziggy Hood and Cam Heyward to replace on the aging d-line and just drafted Hampton's eventual replacement. The biggest defensive question mark is going to be nose tackle but beyond that the team is as good as it's ever been. Curtis Brown and Cortez Allen are both primed to play a more expanded role and I don't believe for a second our line backing core will miss a beat without Farrior. Foote is still very solid and he knows the defense and we still have Stevenson Sylvester and we just drafted Spence. We also have our defensive coordinator replacement already on the team. Keith Butler our linebacker coach. The guy has turned down at least 3 defensive coordinator positions elsewhere because he's the heir apparent and the Steelers have told him as much. I'm not AT ALL worried about when Lebeau decides to hang them up. Butler has been under him for a long time and he's a special Coach in his own right, otherwise the Steelers wouldn't have assured him the job was his when Lebeau hangs them up. The Steelers reload in every single draft.
I also think you're bat sh.it crazy to suggest the Steelers will have the worst defense in the AFC North. The aging defense is as young as it's ever been with Aaron Smith and Farrior retiring. We also just drafted DeCastro and Adams and already saw substantial strides from Gilbert. I'm not super excited about Redman being the primary ball carrier but I'm also not worried. DeCastro is plug and play and Adams may crack the line up as a rookie. Colon could very well end up at guard and our line goes from marginal to very good over night. Our run game WILL be improved, not to mention the coordinator change to a guy that does what works all the time. The Steelers are going to make some substantial strides this season. Arians was a major hang up.
EDIT: And Dick Lebeau is the man BUT he's not the reason these players are good, they'd be good on other teams. I'd also love a explanation for the "wrought iron term". Frankly Gipper you don't know enough about the roster to even make this comment. The players that are now gone have been replaced with talent just as good at this stage or better. Aaron Smith is gone because he had lost it, Farrior the same. It's what the Steelers do, make the tough decisions and continue to improve. I'll be shocked if the defense isn't inside the top 10 this coming season, absolutely shocked.
2nd edit: If there is a defensive question mark it's at either safety position. If Clark or Polamalu go down we're going to have a tough time because there isn't much behind them. Unless Myron Rolle can prove that he's not focused on football and ready to prove his worth as a safety in the league. He certainly has the smarts and good size.
Homotron said:
Who remains that has lost a step?
The Steelers reload in every single draft.
I also think you're bat sh.it crazy to suggest the Steelers will have the worst defense in the AFC North. The aging defense is as young as it's ever been with Aaron Smith and Farrior retiring.
Arians was a major hang up.
I'll be shocked if the defense isn't inside the top 10 this coming season, absolutely shocked.
Tron,
Who is slower than Clark on defense? Where were Harrison, Timmons and Woodley last year? Did we sign them to 50M + contracts for the sack numbers they put up? Do you see Harrison being suspended for less than 4 games this year? Hampton won't be what he once was or anywhere near close to it again. Foote is not an improvement over Farrior, he's a cheaper option. Aaron Smith would start over Hood if he wasn't a cap/injury casualty. Frankly, you are looking at the Steelers defense through rose colored glasses, and it's time to put down the kool-aid.
As a whole, the Browns secondary is far superior to the Steelers secondary, at least as you look at it on paper right now. On an individual basis I would say Troy is our only player better between both teams secondary rosters. The Browns have younger players than the Steelers and they are all one year into their new system under another defensive mastermind named Jauron. The Browns defense will be better this year, how much so depends on how much they improve that run defense with no real top draft picks and/or free agents to do the job.
You might be excited about the Steelers draft picks, but Spence and Ta'amu will be special teamers at best this year. Slyvester and Worilds have shown me nothing yet. Assuming Allen or Brown can replace Gay is just wishful thinking. Cameron is the only back-up I feel has any real promise to make an impact, and Kiesel will keep him off the field.
While I think Haley's a good offensive coordinator, Big Ben is still pouting over the loss of Arians. He's already crying that Haley's play-book is too hard for him to understand. That's not really a good recipe for realizing our offensive potential in 2012. History has shown Steelers offense slumps the first year a new offensive coordinator is installed.
You may want to invest in a defibrillator before the season starts.
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So as usual all the talking heads are saying we have no team and Weeden will get raped by the Ravens etc. etc.
It's no secret that this franchise is a joke but why do they have to always talk garbage on Cleveland as a city?
We have more culture, hotter women, more jobs and less crime than Pittsburgh. Can they just get over themselves? All I hear are people talking about how much we, collectively, suck.
If this were the south in the 50s we'd be the oppressed black people. So sick of this crap. Up yours ESPN
So as usual all the talking heads are saying we have no team and Weeden will get raped by the Ravens etc. etc.
It's no secret that this franchise is a joke but why do they have to always talk garbage on Cleveland as a city?
We have more culture, hotter women, more jobs and less crime than Pittsburgh. Can they just get over themselves? All I hear are people talking about how much we, collectively, suck.
If this were the south in the 50s we'd be the oppressed black people. So sick of this crap. Up yours ESPN
1. You Cleveland folks always measure yourself against Pittsburgh, while we could give a fuck less about you.
2. Unemployment rate in Cleveland is 10.3%, in Pittsburgh it is much lower at 7.3%
3. Crime rates in Cleveland are in fact MUCH higher. 1296 per 100,000 people in Cleveland are subjected to violent crimes per year while the number is only 896 per 100k are in Pittsburgh.
4. Pittsburgh is annually ranked as one of, if not the most liveable cities in the US. Pittsburgh Most Liveable
5. Cleveland on the other hand was named "Most Miserable City in the US" Cleveland is Miserable
6. Hotter women and more culture is difficult to measure, but most objective observers would say both cities are similar in those departments, but Pittsburgh clearly has younger and hotter women.
Too easy. I could go on, but that would just be piling on, beating a dead horse, or Clevelanding a Clevelander.....
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Why the fuck are we arguing over which city has hotter women? Asinine.
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Homotron said:
Who remains that has lost a step?
The Steelers reload in every single draft.
I also think you're bat sh.it crazy to suggest the Steelers will have the worst defense in the AFC North. The aging defense is as young as it's ever been with Aaron Smith and Farrior retiring.
Arians was a major hang up.
I'll be shocked if the defense isn't inside the top 10 this coming season, absolutely shocked.
Tron,
Who is slower than Clark on defense? Where were Harrison, Timmons and Woodley last year? Did we sign them to 50M + contracts for the sack numbers they put up? Do you see Harrison being suspended for less than 4 games this year? Hampton won't be what he once was or anywhere near close to it again. Foote is not an improvement over Farrior, he's a cheaper option. Aaron Smith would start over Hood if he wasn't a cap/injury casualty. Frankly, you are looking at the Steelers defense through rose colored glasses, and it's time to put down the kool-aid.
As a whole, the Browns secondary is far superior to the Steelers secondary, at least as you look at it on paper right now. On an individual basis I would say Troy is our only player better between both teams secondary rosters. The Browns have younger players than the Steelers and they are all one year into their new system under another defensive mastermind named Jauron. The Browns defense will be better this year, how much so depends on how much they improve that run defense with no real top draft picks and/or free agents to do the job.
You might be excited about the Steelers draft picks, but Spence and Ta'amu will be special teamers at best this year. Slyvester and Worilds have shown me nothing yet. Assuming Allen or Brown can replace Gay is just wishful thinking. Cameron is the only back-up I feel has any real promise to make an impact, and Kiesel will keep him off the field.
While I think Haley's a good offensive coordinator, Big Ben is still pouting over the loss of Arians. He's already crying that Haley's play-book is too hard for him to understand. That's not really a good recipe for realizing our offensive potential in 2012. History has shown Steelers offense slumps the first year a new offensive coordinator is installed.
You may want to invest in a defibrillator before the season starts.
Endymion said:
Tron,
Who is slower than Clark on defense? Where were Harrison, Timmons and Woodley last year? Did we sign them to 50M + contracts for the sack numbers they put up? Do you see Harrison being suspended for less than 4 games this year? Hampton won't be what he once was or anywhere near close to it again. Foote is not an improvement over Farrior, he's a cheaper option. Aaron Smith would start over Hood if he wasn't a cap/injury casualty. Frankly, you are looking at the Steelers defense through rose colored glasses, and it's time to put down the kool-aid.
As a whole, the Browns secondary is far superior to the Steelers secondary, at least as you look at it on paper right now. On an individual basis I would say Troy is our only player better between both teams secondary rosters. The Browns have younger players than the Steelers and they are all one year into their new system under another defensive mastermind named Jauron. The Browns defense will be better this year, how much so depends on how much they improve that run defense with no real top draft picks and/or free agents to do the job.
You might be excited about the Steelers draft picks, but Spence and Ta'amu will be special teamers at best this year. Slyvester and Worilds have shown me nothing yet. Assuming Allen or Brown can replace Gay is just wishful thinking. Cameron is the only back-up I feel has any real promise to make an impact, and Kiesel will keep him off the field.
While I think Haley's a good offensive coordinator, Big Ben is still pouting over the loss of Arians. He's already crying that Haley's play-book is too hard for him to understand. That's not really a good recipe for realizing our offensive potential in 2012. History has shown Steelers offense slumps the first year a new offensive coordinator is installed.
You may want to invest in a defibrillator before the season starts.
Do you actually watch and follow the Steelers? Where was Harrison, Woodley and Timmon's last year? Timmons was rotated inside and outside almost constantly BECAUSE Harrison and Woodley were injured. Did you just up and forget that Woodley dealt with a strained hammy for a majority of the season? Did you also forget that Harrison fractured his orbital bone AND hurt his lower back? We had a patch work team for a majority of the season and lost several key players for the playoffs. I don't believe you can blame losses on injuries because professional teams need to persevere HOWEVER you can 100% expect a better team when those players are healthy. As far as Clark is concerned he lead our team in tackles and had the best season of his career with the Steelers. We missed him in a major way against the Broncos. Aaron Smith wasn't the same when he was healthy and where did I say Spence or the big boy at nose would be anything but special teams? Spence will be certainly BUT he was also one of the most instinctual players in the draft with a high football IQ. I would not be surprised to see him in the line up on a situational basis. You also COMPLETELY made up the Big Ben part about the playbook UNLESS you're talking about his opinion of the media and Haley. He said he didn't understand why the MEDIA was making such a big deal about it, not that he didn't understand it. Get real dude. I don't "drink the kool-aid" and on my primary message board have been very critical of certain things. I'm beginning to think you don't watch much Steeler football and if you do you just completely ignore the injury factor for an explanation in the drop of on field production.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
So as usual all the talking heads are saying we have no team and Weeden will get raped by the Ravens etc. etc.
It's no secret that this franchise is a joke but why do they have to always talk garbage on Cleveland as a city?
We have more culture, hotter women, more jobs and less crime than Pittsburgh. Can they just get over themselves? All I hear are people talking about how much we, collectively, suck.
If this were the south in the 50s we'd be the oppressed black people. So sick of this crap. Up yours ESPN
1. You Cleveland folks always measure yourself against Pittsburgh, while we could give a fuck less about you.
2. Unemployment rate in Cleveland is 10.3%, in Pittsburgh it is much lower at 7.3%
3. Crime rates in Cleveland are in fact MUCH higher. 1296 per 100,000 people in Cleveland are subjected to violent crimes per year while the number is only 896 per 100k are in Pittsburgh.
4. Pittsburgh is annually ranked as one of, if not the most liveable cities in the US. Pittsburgh Most Liveable
5. Cleveland on the other hand was named "Most Miserable City in the US" Cleveland is Miserable
6. Hotter women and more culture is difficult to measure, but most objective observers would say both cities are similar in those departments, but Pittsburgh clearly has younger and hotter women.
Too easy. I could go on, but that would just be piling on, beating a dead horse, or Clevelanding a Clevelander.....
1. You Cleveland folks always measure yourself against Pittsburgh, while we could give a fuck less about you.
2. Unemployment rate in Cleveland is 10.3%, in Pittsburgh it is much lower at 7.3%
3. Crime rates in Cleveland are in fact MUCH higher. 1296 per 100,000 people in Cleveland are subjected to violent crimes per year while the number is only 896 per 100k are in Pittsburgh.
4. Pittsburgh is annually ranked as one of, if not the most liveable cities in the US. Pittsburgh Most Liveable
5. Cleveland on the other hand was named "Most Miserable City in the US" Cleveland is Miserable
6. Hotter women and more culture is difficult to measure, but most objective observers would say both cities are similar in those departments, but Pittsburgh clearly has younger and hotter women.
Too easy. I could go on, but that would just be piling on, beating a dead horse, or Clevelanding a Clevelander.....
Nah, yinz city is a big stinking turd, and as soon as the sports teams all suck as bad as the pirates, the media will hop off yinz' nuts, and Pittsburgh will be as reviled as ever. As for the unemployment and crime...East Cleveland. That is all. Stop patting yourselves on the back, we only live like an hour and a half away. We all know what Pittsburgh is like, and its not like nyc. Without sports success Pittsburgh=wheeling west Virginia. That is to say, nothing special.
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And watching Tim Tebow beat the Steelers in the playoffs made me happy. Thanks, timmah.
Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind... -
And watching Tim Tebow beat the Steelers in the playoffs made me happy. Thanks, timmah.
And watching Tim Tebow beat the Steelers in the playoffs made me happy. Thanks, timmah.
One of the worst losses in Steeler history. The only way I'm even marginally alright with it is related directly to the slew of crazy injuries last season. I'm also going to say it once more for those that didn't read me stating it the first time. I am 100% done with the city vs city BS. Steelers vs Browns, the end. I even changed my Ohio hating signature last week. Progress!
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Endymion said:
Tron,
Who is slower than Clark on defense? Where were Harrison, Timmons and Woodley last year? Did we sign them to 50M + contracts for the sack numbers they put up? Do you see Harrison being suspended for less than 4 games this year? Hampton won't be what he once was or anywhere near close to it again. Foote is not an improvement over Farrior, he's a cheaper option. Aaron Smith would start over Hood if he wasn't a cap/injury casualty. Frankly, you are looking at the Steelers defense through rose colored glasses, and it's time to put down the kool-aid.
As a whole, the Browns secondary is far superior to the Steelers secondary, at least as you look at it on paper right now. On an individual basis I would say Troy is our only player better between both teams secondary rosters. The Browns have younger players than the Steelers and they are all one year into their new system under another defensive mastermind named Jauron. The Browns defense will be better this year, how much so depends on how much they improve that run defense with no real top draft picks and/or free agents to do the job.
You might be excited about the Steelers draft picks, but Spence and Ta'amu will be special teamers at best this year. Slyvester and Worilds have shown me nothing yet. Assuming Allen or Brown can replace Gay is just wishful thinking. Cameron is the only back-up I feel has any real promise to make an impact, and Kiesel will keep him off the field.
While I think Haley's a good offensive coordinator, Big Ben is still pouting over the loss of Arians. He's already crying that Haley's play-book is too hard for him to understand. That's not really a good recipe for realizing our offensive potential in 2012. History has shown Steelers offense slumps the first year a new offensive coordinator is installed.
You may want to invest in a defibrillator before the season starts.
Do you actually watch and follow the Steelers? Where was Harrison, Woodley and Timmon's last year? Timmons was rotated inside and outside almost constantly BECAUSE Harrison and Woodley were injured. Did you just up and forget that Woodley dealt with a strained hammy for a majority of the season? Did you also forget that Harrison fractured his orbital bone AND hurt his lower back? We had a patch work team for a majority of the season and lost several key players for the playoffs. I don't believe you can blame losses on injuries because professional teams need to persevere HOWEVER you can 100% expect a better team when those players are healthy. As far as Clark is concerned he lead our team in tackles and had the best season of his career with the Steelers. We missed him in a major way against the Broncos. Aaron Smith wasn't the same when he was healthy and where did I say Spence or the big boy at nose would be anything but special teams? Spence will be certainly BUT he was also one of the most instinctual players in the draft with a high football IQ. I would not be surprised to see him in the line up on a situational basis. You also COMPLETELY made up the Big Ben part about the playbook UNLESS you're talking about his opinion of the media and Haley. He said he didn't understand why the MEDIA was making such a big deal about it, not that he didn't understand it. Get real dude. I don't "drink the kool-aid" and on my primary message board have been very critical of certain things. I'm beginning to think you don't watch much Steeler football and if you do you just completely ignore the injury factor for an explanation in the drop of on field production.
Homotron said:
Do you actually watch and follow the Steelers? Where was Harrison, Woodley and Timmon's last year? HOWEVER you can 100% expect a better team when those players are healthy.As far as Clark is concerned he lead our team in tackles and had the best season of his career with the Steelers.
You also COMPLETELY made up the Big Ben part about the playbook UNLESS you're talking about his opinion of the media and Haley.
Timmons was in the line-up all year. He had almost no impact playing at either inside or outside linebacker. He wasn't paid $50M to be ineffective. He's been in the system for several years now and he's a highly paid player, he should be able to adjust or at least play his "primary" position effectively. He did neither.
Woodley had no impact on any games until the last 2 of the regular season as I recall. If he's healthy enough to play, he should be healthy enough to make an impact. If he's not he shouldn't be on the field. Harrison was practically invisible when he wasn't getting suspended. His orbital frature effected the first half of the season, where was he the second half? Wah! Injuries made 'em play bad. BS!
You don't see a problem with Clark leading the team in tackles? The reason he led the team in tackles is because the linebackers performed so poorly the opponents were getting to the secondary more often than they should have been. Clark is old and slow.
Go read the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette article about Ben and graduation. He was quoted as saying something to the effect of "learning the new playbook is harder than getting my education degree, it's like a whole new language." Further, he talked about how far everyone on the offense was behind because of the new playbook.
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