Phil Taylor Torn Pec
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I can not remember hearing about so many torn pecs in the NFL are these guys just trying to overdo it during workouts? Is our training staff inept? I'm glad someone in the organization is clairvoyant and picked up Old Man "john hughes"
confirmed happened during weight room training... the trainers should be fired 20 years working as an athletic trainer and never had a kid tear a muscle under my watch.
i'm hoping it wssn't a complete tear off the sternum...just don't understand why they aren't using narrow grips and using a bump plate on their chest...when those kids where doing reps at the combine i saw two kids out of like 12 that day not doing it correctly and wouldn't you know it one of those kids tore his pec...not the kids fall that trainer should have gotten punched in the face for letting them do that.
I can not remember hearing about so many torn pecs in the NFL are these guys just trying to overdo it during workouts? Is our training staff inept? I'm glad someone in the organization is clairvoyant and picked up Old Man "john hughes"
confirmed happened during weight room training... the trainers should be fired 20 years working as an athletic trainer and never had a kid tear a muscle under my watch.
i'm hoping it wssn't a complete tear off the sternum...just don't understand why they aren't using narrow grips and using a bump plate on their chest...when those kids where doing reps at the combine i saw two kids out of like 12 that day not doing it correctly and wouldn't you know it one of those kids tore his pec...not the kids fall that trainer should have gotten punched in the face for letting them do that.
Well I assume you don't have kids who are putting up 300-400 pounds on a consistent basis. The more weight the higher risk of injury. They also don't use narrow grip because that is an isolated tricep lift, the wider the grip the more the chest is used. The chest is needed more in pushing motions on the football field. You also don't want to use pump plates, planks, ect, because the point is to lift something you can handle. When you use those planks and plates it takes away from your stabilizing muscles which are very important when it comes to sports.
When it comes down to it injuries like this happen. Training staff can't be blames for freak accidents. I tend to completely ignore barbell bench because of the strain it puts on my chest and shoulder with my hands being in a fixed position. I only use the barbell bench for declines and that is still rare. I always use dumbbells instead because you get a better range of motion on the chest because you can bring the weights together and there is less strain on the shoulders and chest because you can move the weights out to the side and drop them if they get too heavy. But dumbbells don't build bench strength like barbells do and they are necessary for the sport of football.
Ruining threads since 1897. -
How severe is the tear.
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I can not remember hearing about so many torn pecs in the NFL are these guys just trying to overdo it during workouts? Is our training staff inept? I'm glad someone in the organization is clairvoyant and picked up Old Man "john hughes"
confirmed happened during weight room training... the trainers should be fired 20 years working as an athletic trainer and never had a kid tear a muscle under my watch.
i'm hoping it wssn't a complete tear off the sternum...just don't understand why they aren't using narrow grips and using a bump plate on their chest...when those kids where doing reps at the combine i saw two kids out of like 12 that day not doing it correctly and wouldn't you know it one of those kids tore his pec...not the kids fall that trainer should have gotten punched in the face for letting them do that.
Well I assume you don't have kids who are putting up 300-400 pounds on a consistent basis. The more weight the higher risk of injury. They also don't use narrow grip because that is an isolated tricep lift, the wider the grip the more the chest is used. The chest is needed more in pushing motions on the football field. You also don't want to use pump plates, planks, ect, because the point is to lift something you can handle. When you use those planks and plates it takes away from your stabilizing muscles which are very important when it comes to sports.
When it comes down to it injuries like this happen. Training staff can't be blames for freak accidents. I tend to completely ignore barbell bench because of the strain it puts on my chest and shoulder with my hands being in a fixed position. I only use the barbell bench for declines and that is still rare. I always use dumbbells instead because you get a better range of motion on the chest because you can bring the weights together and there is less strain on the shoulders and chest because you can move the weights out to the side and drop them if they get too heavy. But dumbbells don't build bench strength like barbells do and they are necessary for the sport of football.
Well I assume you don't have kids who are putting up 300-400 pounds on a consistent basis. The more weight the higher risk of injury. They also don't use narrow grip because that is an isolated tricep lift, the wider the grip the more the chest is used. The chest is needed more in pushing motions on the football field. You also don't want to use pump plates, planks, ect, because the point is to lift something you can handle. When you use those planks and plates it takes away from your stabilizing muscles which are very important when it comes to sports.
When it comes down to it injuries like this happen. Training staff can't be blames for freak accidents. I tend to completely ignore barbell bench because of the strain it puts on my chest and shoulder with my hands being in a fixed position. I only use the barbell bench for declines and that is still rare. I always use dumbbells instead because you get a better range of motion on the chest because you can bring the weights together and there is less strain on the shoulders and chest because you can move the weights out to the side and drop them if they get too heavy. But dumbbells don't build bench strength like barbells do and they are necessary for the sport of football.
Red= There's the problem. Guys are training with so much weight now, there's no margin for error, you can increase muscle strength- AFAIK, you can't increase connective tissue strength. You're sacrificing flexibility for strength. Injuries like torn pecs and torn biceps were unheard of in the 60's.
And there's far too many of these "freak accidents" league wide to hold training staffs blameless. "What's the best you've ever benched?" "375." "Aw, come on, you can do 400."
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And so it begins.
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Well I assume you don't have kids who are putting up 300-400 pounds on a consistent basis. The more weight the higher risk of injury. They also don't use narrow grip because that is an isolated tricep lift, the wider the grip the more the chest is used. The chest is needed more in pushing motions on the football field. You also don't want to use pump plates, planks, ect, because the point is to lift something you can handle. When you use those planks and plates it takes away from your stabilizing muscles which are very important when it comes to sports.
When it comes down to it injuries like this happen. Training staff can't be blames for freak accidents. I tend to completely ignore barbell bench because of the strain it puts on my chest and shoulder with my hands being in a fixed position. I only use the barbell bench for declines and that is still rare. I always use dumbbells instead because you get a better range of motion on the chest because you can bring the weights together and there is less strain on the shoulders and chest because you can move the weights out to the side and drop them if they get too heavy. But dumbbells don't build bench strength like barbells do and they are necessary for the sport of football.
Red= There's the problem. Guys are training with so much weight now, there's no margin for error, you can increase muscle strength- AFAIK, you can't increase connective tissue strength. You're sacrificing flexibility for strength. Injuries like torn pecs and torn biceps were unheard of in the 60's.
And there's far too many of these "freak accidents" league wide to hold training staffs blameless. "What's the best you've ever benched?" "375." "Aw, come on, you can do 400."
And there's far too many of these "freak accidents" league wide to hold training staffs blameless. "What's the best you've ever benched?" "375." "Aw, come on, you can do 400."
I agree. These goofball strength coaches get these guys all jacked up to the point their muscles are as tight as piano strings. When the heck is some team going to see that range of motion and flexibility are important??
If I owned a team I would mandate to all strength coaches the weight needs to be reduced by 25%. I would also mandate all players take yoga or judo, or both. Both are a great way to stretch out your muscles and increase your range of motion. As a matter of fact, I would hire them as coaches on the team and place the strength goofballs under their direction.
Sure, being strong is important. The problem is Taylor is now about as weak as it gets. A 12 year old can now push more weight off his chest then can Taylor.
I am tired of it....I can see the goofball strength guy yelling, eyes about to pop out of his head...."Give me one more!!"
Idiots.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
And there's far too many of these "freak accidents" league wide to hold training staffs blameless. "What's the best you've ever benched?" "375." "Aw, come on, you can do 400."
I agree. These goofball strength coaches get these guys all jacked up to the point their muscles are as tight as piano strings. When the heck is some team going to see that range of motion and flexibility are important??
If I owned a team I would mandate to all strength coaches the weight needs to be reduced by 25%. I would also mandate all players take yoga or judo, or both. Both are a great way to stretch out your muscles and increase your range of motion. As a matter of fact, I would hire them as coaches on the team and place the strength goofballs under their direction.
Sure, being strong is important. The problem is Taylor is now about as weak as it gets. A 12 year old can now push more weight off his chest then can Taylor.
I am tired of it....I can see the goofball strength guy yelling, eyes about to pop out of his head...."Give me one more!!"
Idiots.
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Well I assume you don't have kids who are putting up 300-400 pounds on a consistent basis. The more weight the higher risk of injury. They also don't use narrow grip because that is an isolated tricep lift, the wider the grip the more the chest is used. The chest is needed more in pushing motions on the football field. You also don't want to use pump plates, planks, ect, because the point is to lift something you can handle. When you use those planks and plates it takes away from your stabilizing muscles which are very important when it comes to sports.
When it comes down to it injuries like this happen. Training staff can't be blames for freak accidents. I tend to completely ignore barbell bench because of the strain it puts on my chest and shoulder with my hands being in a fixed position. I only use the barbell bench for declines and that is still rare. I always use dumbbells instead because you get a better range of motion on the chest because you can bring the weights together and there is less strain on the shoulders and chest because you can move the weights out to the side and drop them if they get too heavy. But dumbbells don't build bench strength like barbells do and they are necessary for the sport of football.
Red= There's the problem. Guys are training with so much weight now, there's no margin for error, you can increase muscle strength- AFAIK, you can't increase connective tissue strength. You're sacrificing flexibility for strength. Injuries like torn pecs and torn biceps were unheard of in the 60's.
And there's far too many of these "freak accidents" league wide to hold training staffs blameless. "What's the best you've ever benched?" "375." "Aw, come on, you can do 400."
Red= There's the problem. Guys are training with so much weight now, there's no margin for error, you can increase muscle strength- AFAIK, you can't increase connective tissue strength. You're sacrificing flexibility for strength. Injuries like torn pecs and torn biceps were unheard of in the 60's.
And there's far too many of these "freak accidents" league wide to hold training staffs blameless. "What's the best you've ever benched?" "375." "Aw, come on, you can do 400."
Well when the other guy is benching 400 it makes sense to push your guy to lift more. I guarantee though this training staff isn't forcing anyone to put up weight they don't think they can get safely. How much a player puts up is up to the player and the training isn't and shouldn't try to hold them back. If they said "The limit is 375, nothing above that" then in a year or two you would be seeing how the Browns keep getting pushed around on the field and would be complaining about it. You can't hold training staffs responsible for injuries like this. Saying that would be saying they need to be able to read minds and body language. Players responsibility ask for help when it's needed and to warm up the muscles properly to keep this stuff from happening.
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Harry is 100% right.
Yes, Phil needs flexibility. Yes, he needs a full range of motion. Shocking. He should already be doing yoga.
The bottom line is that the motion of the complete flat bench [no plates, no close grip] is exactly one of few athletic motions Phil needs to be very strong in during his work. OL and DL are the only positions in any sport [you could argue that a defenseman in lacrosse needs this as well and that's it] where the requirement of the role is to explode with power with both hands at the same time.
No way exists to "simulate" or to "increase stabilizing muscles" - think about it, the way you stabilize when doing the full strength lift is.. to lift at full strength. If you're lifting at 75%, you're only stabilizing for that 75% weight. High weight flat bench is essential for OL and DL. The argument for decreasing weight is the same argument in support of a back brace during heavy squat -- also a stupid idea, because the entire point of the lift is to increase the legs and all stabilizing muscles as a system, not just one in isolation.
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I do yoga and plyos gave up the big plates a few years ago.
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And there's far too many of these "freak accidents" league wide to hold training staffs blameless. "What's the best you've ever benched?" "375." "Aw, come on, you can do 400."
I agree. These goofball strength coaches get these guys all jacked up to the point their muscles are as tight as piano strings. When the heck is some team going to see that range of motion and flexibility are important??
If I owned a team I would mandate to all strength coaches the weight needs to be reduced by 25%. I would also mandate all players take yoga or judo, or both. Both are a great way to stretch out your muscles and increase your range of motion. As a matter of fact, I would hire them as coaches on the team and place the strength goofballs under their direction.
Sure, being strong is important. The problem is Taylor is now about as weak as it gets. A 12 year old can now push more weight off his chest then can Taylor.
I am tired of it....I can see the goofball strength guy yelling, eyes about to pop out of his head...."Give me one more!!"
Idiots.
I agree. These goofball strength coaches get these guys all jacked up to the point their muscles are as tight as piano strings. When the heck is some team going to see that range of motion and flexibility are important??
If I owned a team I would mandate to all strength coaches the weight needs to be reduced by 25%. I would also mandate all players take yoga or judo, or both.
Tai Chi or kung fu would be better.
Both are a great way to stretch out your muscles and increase your range of motion. As a matter of fact, I would hire them as coaches on the team and place the strength goofballs under their direction.
Sure, being strong is important. The problem is Taylor is now about as weak as it gets. A 12 year old can now push more weight off his chest then can Taylor.
I am tired of it....I can see the goofball strength guy yelling, eyes about to pop out of his head...."Give me one more!!"
Idiots.
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Anyone saying thee strength and conditioning coaches need to be fired are idiots and I would really like to see you guys run a team so I could see the weak ass pussies you put out on the field. Yoga and Tia Chi isn't going to build your strength like weight lifting is. Teams would blow past any team that did their strength conditioning in this way. One fucking guy has a lifting injury, a freak injury that could happen to anyone on any team in this league, and you call for the strength coach to be fired.
I will say it one last time, if you think the strength coach should be fired because of this you obvious don't know enough about weight lifting and strength training in general to even share your opinion on the matter.
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Zombo said:
ESPN Cleveland confirming torn, surgery, and likely done for the year...
Z
All hale The Sausage King.
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Harry is 100% right.
Yes, Phil needs flexibility. Yes, he needs a full range of motion. Shocking. He should already be doing yoga.
The bottom line is that the motion of the complete flat bench [no plates, no close grip] is exactly one of few athletic motions Phil needs to be very strong in during his work. OL and DL are the only positions in any sport [you could argue that a defenseman in lacrosse needs this as well and that's it] where the requirement of the role is to explode with power with both hands at the same time.
No way exists to "simulate" or to "increase stabilizing muscles" - think about it, the way you stabilize when doing the full strength lift is.. to lift at full strength. If you're lifting at 75%, you're only stabilizing for that 75% weight. High weight flat bench is essential for OL and DL. The argument for decreasing weight is the same argument in support of a back brace during heavy squat -- also a stupid idea, because the entire point of the lift is to increase the legs and all stabilizing muscles as a system, not just one in isolation.
Harry is 100% right.
Yes, Phil needs flexibility. Yes, he needs a full range of motion. Shocking. He should already be doing yoga.
The bottom line is that the motion of the complete flat bench [no plates, no close grip] is exactly one of few athletic motions Phil needs to be very strong in during his work. OL and DL are the only positions in any sport [you could argue that a defenseman in lacrosse needs this as well and that's it] where the requirement of the role is to explode with power with both hands at the same time.
No way exists to "simulate" or to "increase stabilizing muscles" - think about it, the way you stabilize when doing the full strength lift is.. to lift at full strength. If you're lifting at 75%, you're only stabilizing for that 75% weight. High weight flat bench is essential for OL and DL. The argument for decreasing weight is the same argument in support of a back brace during heavy squat -- also a stupid idea, because the entire point of the lift is to increase the legs and all stabilizing muscles as a system, not just one in isolation.
Really? i guess you guys really didn't quite complete your degree in Kinesiology
nearly 100% of these "accidents" can be prevented. If for some reason there is actually a structural abnormality that could cause this then it would have occured at a lot less weight.
2 very simple techniques is to use a bump pad on the par or on their chest to prevent the wieghts from going down to far(hitting the chest with a bar doesn't cause injury)or narrowing your grip...in fact a narrow grip will increase muscle strength and cause less stress on the tendons and fibers.
This is 100% the fault of inproper staff coaching and training. Only if the player went out of his way and told them i don't care i'm going to do it this way and not the right way should the trainer not be held accountable.
I have kids benching over 400 all the time and like i said in 20 years never had a tear...NEVER.
This is not Phil's fault the blame is completely on the training staff. Yoga and stetching do help a little...but muscle fiber injuries like this really only need some blood flowing to get up to optimal levels...15 minutes on a stationary bike is all you need...
also i have been noticing a lot of kids wanting to get ripped so they are lowering their carb loads...NO NO NO...its not about the look but the result...increase your CARB loads before during and after work out...low carb diets lead to a lot of muscle injuries.
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Harry is 100% right.
Yes, Phil needs flexibility. Yes, he needs a full range of motion. Shocking. He should already be doing yoga.
The bottom line is that the motion of the complete flat bench [no plates, no close grip] is exactly one of few athletic motions Phil needs to be very strong in during his work. OL and DL are the only positions in any sport [you could argue that a defenseman in lacrosse needs this as well and that's it] where the requirement of the role is to explode with power with both hands at the same time.
No way exists to "simulate" or to "increase stabilizing muscles" - think about it, the way you stabilize when doing the full strength lift is.. to lift at full strength. If you're lifting at 75%, you're only stabilizing for that 75% weight. High weight flat bench is essential for OL and DL. The argument for decreasing weight is the same argument in support of a back brace during heavy squat -- also a stupid idea, because the entire point of the lift is to increase the legs and all stabilizing muscles as a system, not just one in isolation.
Really? i guess you guys really didn't quite complete your degree in Kinesiology
nearly 100% of these "accidents" can be prevented. If for some reason there is actually a structural abnormality that could cause this then it would have occured at a lot less weight.
2 very simple techniques is to use a bump pad on the par or on their chest to prevent the wieghts from going down to far(hitting the chest with a bar doesn't cause injury)or narrowing your grip...in fact a narrow grip will increase muscle strength and cause less stress on the tendons and fibers.
This is 100% the fault of inproper staff coaching and training. Only if the player went out of his way and told them i don't care i'm going to do it this way and not the right way should the trainer not be held accountable.
I have kids benching over 400 all the time and like i said in 20 years never had a tear...NEVER.
This is not Phil's fault the blame is completely on the training staff. Yoga and stetching do help a little...but muscle fiber injuries like this really only need some blood flowing to get up to optimal levels...15 minutes on a stationary bike is all you need...
also i have been noticing a lot of kids wanting to get ripped so they are lowering their carb loads...NO NO NO...its not about the look but the result...increase your CARB loads before during and after work out...low carb diets lead to a lot of muscle injuries.
Really? i guess you guys really didn't quite complete your degree in Kinesiology
nearly 100% of these "accidents" can be prevented. If for some reason there is actually a structural abnormality that could cause this then it would have occured at a lot less weight.
2 very simple techniques is to use a bump pad on the par or on their chest to prevent the wieghts from going down to far(hitting the chest with a bar doesn't cause injury)or narrowing your grip...in fact a narrow grip will increase muscle strength and cause less stress on the tendons and fibers.
This is 100% the fault of inproper staff coaching and training. Only if the player went out of his way and told them i don't care i'm going to do it this way and not the right way should the trainer not be held accountable.
I have kids benching over 400 all the time and like i said in 20 years never had a tear...NEVER.
This is not Phil's fault the blame is completely on the training staff. Yoga and stetching do help a little...but muscle fiber injuries like this really only need some blood flowing to get up to optimal levels...15 minutes on a stationary bike is all you need...
also i have been noticing a lot of kids wanting to get ripped so they are lowering their carb loads...NO NO NO...its not about the look but the result...increase your CARB loads before during and after work out...low carb diets lead to a lot of muscle injuries.
As mentioned, yes pump pads or planks will keep the weight from going too far down, but if you need one then you are doing to much weight anyway and that is on the player. The player should know how much weight he can do without letting the weight fall all the way to his chest. Plus as I already mentioned narrow grip works the tricep much more than the chest. The point of bench press from a football standpoint is to work the chest at the very least as equally as you work the tricep if not putting more focus on the chest than the tricep. For this you need a neutral to wide grip to work more of the chest.
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Fuck weights. Lets just get Herschel Walker as our strength and conditioning coach and stick to push ups and sit ups. He seemed/seems to be doing pretty well with it.
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All you guys talking about pecs and pumping gives me a certain image of you all:
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