Jim Brown Speaks Out On Holmgren/richardson
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Some would argue that Jim Brown was way before his time. The man was a 6'2". 232lb rb, that was goddamn massive back that then. Jim was just a freak of nature and would probably compare to an adriann peterson in this day. There is just no way to compare any of the past rbs. Jim does have to right to voice his opinion but so does everyone else. I just want Trent to be able to stay healthy and fuck up the AFC North.
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I agree. However- to justify his draft status and picks we gave up (and I've said this all along)- Richardson had better be more than just "pretty good". He had better be Ladanian Tomlinson good. I might cut him a break, and say top 10 all time. And like Jim Brown- I don't see it. I hope he proves both of us wrong.
So you expect every top 5 pick to be top 10 all time among their position or just in this case?
What is he wrong about? You can't dismiss it simply because you don't like the message. He succinctly described and quantified his statement....that strength alone isn't enough. He didn't say tr is a bust.....
He has elite strength and quickness/agility/acceleration/whatever you want to call it. Brown says he doesn't see the elite quickness so he's either blind or bitter or both. There is no way a man of TR size should be able to move the way he does (he moves better than MDJ) so I call that something special.
Keep in mind guys he also said Emmitt Smith wasn't anything special either.
1) So you expect every top 5 pick to be top 10 all time among their position or just in this case?
He has elite strength and quickness/agility/acceleration/whatever you want to call it. Brown says he doesn't see the elite quickness so he's either blind or bitter or both. There is no way a man of TR size should be able to move the way he does (he moves better than MDJ) so I call that something special.
3) Keep in mind guys he also said Emmitt Smith wasn't anything special either.
1) How many other running backs were drafted top three? Damn few. Not even the immortal Jim Brown. AND we gave up picks on top of it. To show you I'm not biased in that regard- RG III had better be the second coming of Warren Moon, or the Redskins blew it too. I'm talking the Richardson pick with a view as to where current stud RBs were taken. Rice & MJD- second round, Arian Foster UFA. So it goes without saying- Richardson had better be significantly better that those three? Or explain why not. You consider drafting MJD II with the third overall pick good value? I don't.
2) From what I've seen- Richardson lacks 5th gear. I'm going to make an not-so-bold prediction right now. Richard can, and will get run down from behind in the Pros. Sure, he may have The Incredible Hulk's build- but so did Earl Campbell. BTW, I was in favor of drafting Tomlinson & Peterson- I was not in favor of drafting Richardson. I think I have a pretty fair track record of evaluating RB talent.
3) Smith had longevity with some stellar Cowboy teams. As was posited, put Sanders on those same teams, and he's good for 20,000 yards. Put Jim Brown on those teams- with 14 years in the league, and he's good for 30,000.
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whatever. same old shit. either you agree with him because you didn't like the trade up (suckers) to get him or you agree with him when he said we should've drafted a couple of receivers. i agree with both of those statements.
can't the same thing be said about brandon weeden? the guy hasn't even put pads on yet but MOST of you are ready to annoint him king dipshit number one.
And some guy on this board is calling Claiborne an all pro CB? Maybe everyone should just shut up till everyone of these rookies gets a chance to play.
And some guy on this board is calling Claiborne an all pro CB? Maybe everyone should just shut up till everyone of these rookies gets a chance to play.
i know that was aimed at me and you are wrong. find one post where i said claiborne will be an all-pro.
i said he would solidify our defensive backfield for years to come with him playing across from haden. that was my point all along. a CB and a serious LB would have gone a long way to keep us a top ten defense for years to come.
and yes. defense wins championships.
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And some guy on this board is calling Claiborne an all pro CB? Maybe everyone should just shut up till everyone of these rookies gets a chance to play.
i know that was aimed at me and you are wrong. find one post where i said claiborne will be an all-pro.
i said he would solidify our defensive backfield for years to come with him playing across from haden. that was my point all along. a CB and a serious LB would have gone a long way to keep us a top ten defense for years to come.
and yes. defense wins championships.
i know that was aimed at me and you are wrong. find one post where i said claiborne will be an all-pro.
i said he would solidify our defensive backfield for years to come with him playing across from haden. that was my point all along. a CB and a serious LB would have gone a long way to keep us a top ten defense for years to come.
and yes. defense wins championships.
Defense does win championships.
Along with good offensive play.
Everyone likes to bring up the Giants' defensive play season as example, but nobody like to mention that the had a top 10 offense as well. Furthermore, the Giants defense finished 27th last regular season and only "turned it on" for the playoffs.
Not saying that you were referencing the Giants, but it's a good example of both offense and defense "winning a championship".
Holding a team to 7 points does no good if your offense isn't able to score 8.
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giants are a good example, along with the ravens and steelers who do nothing each year but draft defensive gems to keep their defenses some of the tops in the league and them relevant each year.
haven't been able to say that about the browns for over 3 decades and i guarantee you won't be able to say that about them this year as well.
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One thing you can say for them for sure is that they have one of the worst hating-est fans I've ever seen.
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One thing you can say for them for sure is that they have one of the worst hating-est fans I've ever seen.
One thing you can say for them for sure is that they have one of the worst hating-est fans I've ever seen.
yeah. you post your fluff and i'll post mine.
meanwhile learn how to use the english language, punk.
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Oh, burn. I'm sad now.
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geez Jimmy(!). just for kicks, someone ask him what he thinks of Peyton Hillis.
without knowing that (and admittedly reading into things a little), it sounds to me like 'ol JB wanted the FO to re-sign the Albino Rhino and draft Blackmon-or Floyd-instead of TR and the UDFA's we currently have in Berea. and his comments-although possibly truthful- were more criticisms of the FO than of Tr3nt.
time will tell.
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1) So you expect every top 5 pick to be top 10 all time among their position or just in this case?
He has elite strength and quickness/agility/acceleration/whatever you want to call it. Brown says he doesn't see the elite quickness so he's either blind or bitter or both. There is no way a man of TR size should be able to move the way he does (he moves better than MDJ) so I call that something special.
3) Keep in mind guys he also said Emmitt Smith wasn't anything special either.
1) How many other running backs were drafted top three? Damn few. Not even the immortal Jim Brown. AND we gave up picks on top of it. To show you I'm not biased in that regard- RG III had better be the second coming of Warren Moon, or the Redskins blew it too. I'm talking the Richardson pick with a view as to where current stud RBs were taken. Rice & MJD- second round, Arian Foster UFA. So it goes without saying- Richardson had better be significantly better that those three? Or explain why not. You consider drafting MJD II with the third overall pick good value? I don't.
2) From what I've seen- Richardson lacks 5th gear. I'm going to make an not-so-bold prediction right now. Richard can, and will get run down from behind in the Pros. Sure, he may have The Incredible Hulk's build- but so did Earl Campbell. BTW, I was in favor of drafting Tomlinson & Peterson- I was not in favor of drafting Richardson. I think I have a pretty fair track record of evaluating RB talent.
3) Smith had longevity with some stellar Cowboy teams. As was posited, put Sanders on those same teams, and he's good for 20,000 yards. Put Jim Brown on those teams- with 14 years in the league, and he's good for 30,000.
1) How many other running backs were drafted top three? Damn few. Not even the immortal Jim Brown. AND we gave up picks on top of it. To show you I'm not biased in that regard- RG III had better be the second coming of Warren Moon, or the Redskins blew it too. I'm talking the Richardson pick with a view as to where current stud RBs were taken. Rice & MJD- second round, Arian Foster UFA. So it goes without saying- Richardson had better be significantly better that those three? Or explain why not. You consider drafting MJD II with the third overall pick good value? I don't.
2) From what I've seen- Richardson lacks 5th gear. I'm going to make an not-so-bold prediction right now. Richard can, and will get run down from behind in the Pros. Sure, he may have The Incredible Hulk's build- but so did Earl Campbell. BTW, I was in favor of drafting Tomlinson & Peterson- I was not in favor of drafting Richardson. I think I have a pretty fair track record of evaluating RB talent.
3) Smith had longevity with some stellar Cowboy teams. As was posited, put Sanders on those same teams, and he's good for 20,000 yards. Put Jim Brown on those teams- with 14 years in the league, and he's good for 30,000.
1: Redraft those years and guess where those backs are taken. top 5 all of them. you also forgot to mention Peterson, a 7th overall pick who only fell because of injury concerns. Every player you mention is a top 10 or 5 pick in their drafts if teams went back and drafted those years today. Where they happened to be drafted has zero to do with anything because if teams knew they were going to perform that well they would have all be drafted very high.
2: Same thing every monday morning QB says. You can't evaluate any better than anyone else on this board. Richardson was clocked at a 4.5 during a game from a stop and run, he will out run plenty of people in the NFL.
3: Give me Smith on this team right now. He will dominate. When it comes down to it, it's only always a players athletic ability but also their "it". Smith had "it". I think Richardson has "it". Brown was a head case who had at least 5 more good years in the tank and through it all away.
i know that was aimed at me and you are wrong. find one post where i said claiborne will be an all-pro.
i said he would solidify our defensive backfield for years to come with him playing across from haden. that was my point all along. a CB and a serious LB would have gone a long way to keep us a top ten defense for years to come.
and yes. defense wins championships.
Yes it was directed at you. And Claiborne can be a huge bust. We could have some how picked Claiborne and Kuechly and been worse with them on the team than better. We don't know. They haven't taken a snap. That is what I am getting at. Don't come and bitch to people about anointing Richardson and Weeden as good future players when they haven't taken a snap when you do the fucking same thing to Claiborne. NONE OF THESE GUYS HAVE TAKEN A SNAP. You don't know anymore than me or the average guy. So stop the fucking bitch fest.
Ruining threads since 1897. -
all hail thou HarryBuffalo.
because we all know you are always right.
and if you don't like my 'bitching' then hit 'ignore' mr. olympus trainer to the stars.
the difference between claiborn and richardson and weeden is that the latter two better produce now and garnish us 3-4 wins more than projected because of their offensive greatness (so you say).
and what you don't know asshole is that i was pulling for blackmon to be our pick rather than claiborn.
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Alright. Enough infighting bullshit.
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You guys sound like vaginas.
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all hail thou HarryBuffalo.
because we all know you are always right.
and if you don't like my 'bitching' then hit 'ignore' mr. olympus trainer to the stars.
the difference between claiborn and richardson and weeden is that the latter two better produce now and garnish us 3-4 wins more than projected because of their offensive greatness (so you say).
and what you don't know asshole is that i was pulling for blackmon to be our pick rather than claiborn.
all hail thou HarryBuffalo.
because we all know you are always right.
and if you don't like my 'bitching' then hit 'ignore' mr. olympus trainer to the stars.
the difference between claiborn and richardson and weeden is that the latter two better produce now and garnish us 3-4 wins more than projected because of their offensive greatness (so you say).
and what you don't know asshole is that i was pulling for blackmon to be our pick rather than claiborn.
Well shucks Mr. Miktoxic your right about one thing, I tend to let you be the board hypocrite. Say one thing mean the other. I wanted Claiborne or Blackmon, both will be good. Weeden and Richardson better do this cause I didn't want them. How can you guys say these two yahoos are good, THEY HAVEN'T TAKEN A SNAP! No way they'll be as good as Blackmon or Claiborne!
I don't block you cause I like making you look like the asshole you are, cause I like to make a special case out of your idiocy and hypocrisy. I don't deny that Blackmon can become a good WR or that Claiborne can become a great CB, but I find it fucking ridiculous how you can come on here and bitch/complain/grumble/verb here about how people on this board are optimistic about TR and BW when they haven't taken a snap then at the same time claim Blackmon and Claiborne are going to be good when... drum role... they have the same amount of NFL playing time.
At this point Cooper has just as much a chance to be the best rookie WR, Cam Johnson has the same chance to be the best rookie DE, Potter has the same chance to be best rookie tackle, Pierce has the same chance to be the best rookie RB, Boykin has the same chance to be the best rookie CB, and Harnish (Mr. Irrelivent drafted by the Colts) has the same chance to be the best rookie QB.
I'm right, your wrong. Write something back I don't care. Attack me, my thoughts, or my logic, it doesn't matter. Your the guy running through the board with the permanent corn cob up your ass cause your guys didn't get drafted.
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i don't care who got drafted, it's just where.
it's people like you that piss me off because if i don't think along the same lines as you i've got a corn cobb up my ass.
well i guess it's better than fellating dudes through the glory hole at the rawhide on thursdays down at the pier.
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1) How many other running backs were drafted top three? Damn few. Not even the immortal Jim Brown. AND we gave up picks on top of it. To show you I'm not biased in that regard- RG III had better be the second coming of Warren Moon, or the Redskins blew it too. I'm talking the Richardson pick with a view as to where current stud RBs were taken. Rice & MJD- second round, Arian Foster UFA. So it goes without saying- Richardson had better be significantly better that those three? Or explain why not. You consider drafting MJD II with the third overall pick good value? I don't.
2) From what I've seen- Richardson lacks 5th gear. I'm going to make an not-so-bold prediction right now. Richard can, and will get run down from behind in the Pros. Sure, he may have The Incredible Hulk's build- but so did Earl Campbell. BTW, I was in favor of drafting Tomlinson & Peterson- I was not in favor of drafting Richardson. I think I have a pretty fair track record of evaluating RB talent.
3) Smith had longevity with some stellar Cowboy teams. As was posited, put Sanders on those same teams, and he's good for 20,000 yards. Put Jim Brown on those teams- with 14 years in the league, and he's good for 30,000.
1: Redraft those years and guess where those backs are taken. top 5 all of them. you also forgot to mention Peterson, a 7th overall pick who only fell because of injury concerns. Every player you mention is a top 10 or 5 pick in their drafts if teams went back and drafted those years today. Where they happened to be drafted has zero to do with anything because if teams knew they were going to perform that well they would have all be drafted very high.
2: Same thing every monday morning QB says. You can't evaluate any better than anyone else on this board. Richardson was clocked at a 4.5 during a game from a stop and run, he will out run plenty of people in the NFL.
3: Give me Smith on this team right now. He will dominate. When it comes down to it, it's only always a players athletic ability but also their "it". Smith had "it". I think Richardson has "it". Brown was a head case who had at least 5 more good years in the tank and through it all away.
i know that was aimed at me and you are wrong. find one post where i said claiborne will be an all-pro.
i said he would solidify our defensive backfield for years to come with him playing across from haden. that was my point all along. a CB and a serious LB would have gone a long way to keep us a top ten defense for years to come.
and yes. defense wins championships.
Yes it was directed at you. And Claiborne can be a huge bust. We could have some how picked Claiborne and Kuechly and been worse with them on the team than better. We don't know. They haven't taken a snap. That is what I am getting at. Don't come and bitch to people about anointing Richardson and Weeden as good future players when they haven't taken a snap when you do the fucking same thing to Claiborne. NONE OF THESE GUYS HAVE TAKEN A SNAP. You don't know anymore than me or the average guy. So stop the fucking bitch fest.
1: Redraft those years and guess where those backs are taken. top 5 all of them. you also forgot to mention Peterson, a 7th overall pick who only fell because of injury concerns. Every player you mention is a top 10 or 5 pick in their drafts if teams went back and drafted those years today. Where they happened to be drafted has zero to do with anything because if teams knew they were going to perform that well they would have all be drafted very high.
Richardson was clocked at a 4.5 during a game from a stop and run, he will out run plenty of people in the NFL.
Woulda, shoulda, didn't. That's because prevailing logic in the NFL is you don't draft a RB that high. Far too many second rounders who have lit it up recently, and not so recently. Corey Dillon, for starters.
Richardson had better be significantly better- not "just as good". 4.5? That's Shaun Alexander speed, he happened to have 5 pretty good years. As soon as he started running 4.6s+, he was toast. Drafted 19th, about the same spot Emmitt Smith got drafted. Sorry, I hit home runs with Tomlinson and Peterson- and I don't know what I"m talking about?
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1: Redraft those years and guess where those backs are taken. top 5 all of them. you also forgot to mention Peterson, a 7th overall pick who only fell because of injury concerns. Every player you mention is a top 10 or 5 pick in their drafts if teams went back and drafted those years today. Where they happened to be drafted has zero to do with anything because if teams knew they were going to perform that well they would have all be drafted very high.
Richardson was clocked at a 4.5 during a game from a stop and run, he will out run plenty of people in the NFL.
Woulda, shoulda, didn't. That's because prevailing logic in the NFL is you don't draft a RB that high. Far too many second rounders who have lit it up recently, and not so recently. Corey Dillon, for starters.
Richardson had better be significantly better- not "just as good". 4.5? That's Shaun Alexander speed, he happened to have 5 pretty good years. As soon as he started running 4.6s+, he was toast. Drafted 19th, about the same spot Emmitt Smith got drafted. Sorry, I hit home runs with Tomlinson and Peterson- and I don't know what I"m talking about?
Woulda, shoulda, didn't. That's because prevailing logic in the NFL is you don't draft a RB that high. Far too many second rounders who have lit it up recently, and not so recently. Corey Dillon, for starters.
Richardson had better be significantly better- not "just as good". 4.5? That's Shaun Alexander speed, he happened to have 5 pretty good years. As soon as he started running 4.6s+, he was toast. Drafted 19th, about the same spot Emmitt Smith got drafted. Sorry, I hit home runs with Tomlinson and Peterson- and I don't know what I"m talking about?
So you thought 2 guys in the past 15 years were going to be good and they were and that make you an expert on picking RB. Not really bub. You and everyone else could see those two were going to be great. But why couldn't you see Foster should have been drafted in the first instead of going un drafted, why couldn't you see that MDJ or Rice were going to be great RB and should have at worst been taken in the top 10 instead of falling all the way to the second? Cause you don't know more than the average fan.
And if those years were re drafted those players would be taken that high, top 5 talent, regardless of the fact that they are RB.
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Woulda, shoulda, didn't. That's because prevailing logic in the NFL is you don't draft a RB that high. Far too many second rounders who have lit it up recently, and not so recently. Corey Dillon, for starters.
Richardson had better be significantly better- not "just as good". 4.5? That's Shaun Alexander speed, he happened to have 5 pretty good years. As soon as he started running 4.6s+, he was toast. Drafted 19th, about the same spot Emmitt Smith got drafted. Sorry, I hit home runs with Tomlinson and Peterson- and I don't know what I"m talking about?
So you thought 2 guys in the past 15 years were going to be good and they were and that make you an expert on picking RB. Not really bub. You and everyone else could see those two were going to be great. But why couldn't you see Foster should have been drafted in the first instead of going un drafted, why couldn't you see that MDJ or Rice were going to be great RB and should have at worst been taken in the top 10 instead of falling all the way to the second? Cause you don't know more than the average fan.
And if those years were re drafted those players would be taken that high, top 5 talent, regardless of the fact that they are RB.
So you thought 2 guys in the past 15 years were going to be good and they were and that make you an expert on picking RB. Not really bub. You and everyone else could see those two were going to be great. But why couldn't you see Foster should have been drafted in the first instead of going un drafted, why couldn't you see that MDJ or Rice were going to be great RB and should have at worst been taken in the top 10 instead of falling all the way to the second? Cause you don't know more than the average fan.
And if those years were re drafted those players would be taken that high, top 5 talent, regardless of the fact that they are RB.
If, if, if, if. We'll just have to agree to disagree. You see something special in Richardson- I don't (other than his field vision and cutting ability).
Running backs get taken lower now for a reason- the position is devalued in the pass happy NFL. And you can play your "what if" game till the cows come home, and it doesn't matter. It would be just as easy for me to say with 20\20 hindsight Tom Brady should have been the first overall pick.
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Can we at least all agree that the offense will now be watchable. Evaluating talent isn't an exact science and no one knows who'll be the next great one. We can argue about the draft all we want but we really can judge it for another couple years.
All I know is that by all appearances our team has improved. Problem is other teams have too. We have a huge talent gap on this division. We're all passionate about this team and some of us are just bitter about the past decade of shit football.
This is a great board. No more needing to insult each other. Lets save it for the fans of other teams and the newbies.
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The insults are why I come here...
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