Outsider's Take On Weeden
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i had mad respect for heckert's drafts the last 2 seasons. that respect dropped about 40% after this year's draft.
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no because we coulda got a running back @22 or later, we picked a QB when we needed a RT (who the steelers picked right after us) and did squadoosh to address everyone's 'number one' need....WR.
yes i was willing to give mccoy another shot this year with those additions we should have made. if he didn't pan out then get him the fuck out. i don't have a crush on any player like some do. i'm just realistic.
talk to ya in november.
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no because we coulda got a running back @22 or later, we picked a QB when we needed a RT (who the steelers picked right after us) and did squadoosh to address everyone's 'number one' need....WR.
yes i was willing to give mccoy another shot this year with those additions we should have made. if he didn't pan out then get him the fuck out. i don't have a crush on any player like some do. i'm just realistic.
talk to ya in november.
no because we coulda got a running back @22 or later, we picked a QB when we needed a RT (who the steelers picked right after us) and did squadoosh to address everyone's 'number one' need....WR.
yes i was willing to give mccoy another shot this year with those additions we should have made. if he didn't pan out then get him the fuck out. i don't have a crush on any player like some do. i'm just realistic.
talk to ya in november.
We needed a strong armed QB, we got one. We needed a RT, we got the number one rated true RT. We needed a runningback, we got one. We needed speed on the WR corps, we got it. We needed depth on the DL, we got it.
I don't agree with trading up to get Richardson, and maybe Weeden could have been had later, but that didn't happen. We still filled the positions of need. Arguing about when we could have gotten them in relation to where we did is immaterial, we still got what we needed.
By all accounts, Little had a great offseason and looks completely different. With a full offseason under his belt, he could become a legitimate #1.
I'm sure that's the reasoning behind not adding a WR early on in the draft.
Heckert hasn't done us wrong yet in the draft, just because we didn't draft Blackmon or Claiborne because you wanted them doesn't mean he fucked us over.
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no because we coulda got a running back @22 or later, we picked a QB when we needed a RT (who the steelers picked right after us) and did squadoosh to address everyone's 'number one' need....WR.
yes i was willing to give mccoy another shot this year with those additions we should have made. if he didn't pan out then get him the fuck out. i don't have a crush on any player like some do. i'm just realistic.
talk to ya in november.
We needed a strong armed QB, we got one. We needed a RT, we got the number one rated true RT. We needed a runningback, we got one. We needed speed on the WR corps, we got it. We needed depth on the DL, we got it.
I don't agree with trading up to get Richardson, and maybe Weeden could have been had later, but that didn't happen. We still filled the positions of need. Arguing about when we could have gotten them in relation to where we did is immaterial, we still got what we needed.
By all accounts, Little had a great offseason and looks completely different. With a full offseason under his belt, he could become a legitimate #1.
I'm sure that's the reasoning behind not adding a WR early on in the draft.
Heckert hasn't done us wrong yet in the draft, just because we didn't draft Blackmon or Claiborne because you wanted them doesn't mean he fucked us over.
We needed a strong armed QB, we got one. We needed a RT, we got the number one rated true RT. We needed a runningback, we got one. We needed speed on the WR corps, we got it. We needed depth on the DL, we got it.
I don't agree with trading up to get Richardson, and maybe Weeden could have been had later, but that didn't happen. We still filled the positions of need. Arguing about when we could have gotten them in relation to where we did is immaterial, we still got what we needed.
By all accounts, Little had a great offseason and looks completely different. With a full offseason under his belt, he could become a legitimate #1.
I'm sure that's the reasoning behind not adding a WR early on in the draft.
Heckert hasn't done us wrong yet in the draft, just because we didn't draft Blackmon or Claiborne because you wanted them doesn't mean he fucked us over.
Ooooohhh so sorry Heckert didn't draft who YOU wanted. He should refer to your judgement before he made a decision on anything. Ya see you in Novemeber... after these rookies actually have a chance to play you idiot.
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We needed a strong armed QB, we got one. We needed a RT, we got the number one rated true RT. We needed a runningback, we got one. We needed speed on the WR corps, we got it. We needed depth on the DL, we got it.
I don't agree with trading up to get Richardson, and maybe Weeden could have been had later, but that didn't happen. We still filled the positions of need. Arguing about when we could have gotten them in relation to where we did is immaterial, we still got what we needed.
By all accounts, Little had a great offseason and looks completely different. With a full offseason under his belt, he could become a legitimate #1.
I'm sure that's the reasoning behind not adding a WR early on in the draft.
Heckert hasn't done us wrong yet in the draft, just because we didn't draft Blackmon or Claiborne because you wanted them doesn't mean he fucked us over.
Ooooohhh so sorry Heckert didn't draft who YOU wanted. He should refer to your judgement before he made a decision on anything. Ya see you in Novemeber... after these rookies actually have a chance to play you idiot.
Ooooohhh so sorry Heckert didn't draft who YOU wanted. He should refer to your judgement before he made a decision on anything. Ya see you in Novemeber... after these rookies actually have a chance to play you idiot.
ok. lay off the juice roid head. go lift some more weights hans.
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no because we coulda got a running back @22 or later, we picked a QB when we needed a RT (who the steelers picked right after us) and did squadoosh to address everyone's 'number one' need....WR.
yes i was willing to give mccoy another shot this year with those additions we should have made. if he didn't pan out then get him the fuck out. i don't have a crush on any player like some do. i'm just realistic.
talk to ya in november.
no because we coulda got a running back @22 or later, we picked a QB when we needed a RT (who the steelers picked right after us) and did squadoosh to address everyone's 'number one' need....WR.
yes i was willing to give mccoy another shot this year with those additions we should have made. if he didn't pan out then get him the fuck out. i don't have a crush on any player like some do. i'm just realistic.
talk to ya in november.
in other words, you panties are bunched cause he didn't take the positions when YOU thought they should have been. why is there only one way? the problem is, your memory is already fuzzy....
the steelers took decastro....and he's not a RT. strike 1....
"everyone's #1 need"? no, those whose opinions dont matter #1 need, ie fans. fans are fans, and as such for a reason. they dont know wnough to be gainfully employed in football. strike 2....
wasting another year to see if noodles can get it together and justify...what....his third round draft status, while fans are screaming for their heads? you think a 3rd evaluation year was really a good idea? really? strike 3.....
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no because we coulda got a running back @22 or later, we picked a QB when we needed a RT (who the steelers picked right after us) and did squadoosh to address everyone's 'number one' need....WR.
yes i was willing to give mccoy another shot this year with those additions we should have made. if he didn't pan out then get him the fuck out. i don't have a crush on any player like some do. i'm just realistic.
talk to ya in november.
in other words, you panties are bunched cause he didn't take the positions when YOU thought they should have been. why is there only one way? the problem is, your memory is already fuzzy....
the steelers took decastro....and he's not a RT. strike 1....
"everyone's #1 need"? no, those whose opinions dont matter #1 need, ie fans. fans are fans, and as such for a reason. they dont know wnough to be gainfully employed in football. strike 2....
wasting another year to see if noodles can get it together and justify...what....his third round draft status, while fans are screaming for their heads? you think a 3rd evaluation year was really a good idea? really? strike 3.....
in other words, you panties are bunched cause he didn't take the positions when YOU thought they should have been. why is there only one way? the problem is, your memory is already fuzzy....
the steelers took decastro....and he's not a RT. strike 1....
"everyone's #1 need"? no, those whose opinions dont matter #1 need, ie fans. fans are fans, and as such for a reason. they dont know wnough to be gainfully employed in football. strike 2....
wasting another year to see if noodles can get it together and justify...what....his third round draft status, while fans are screaming for their heads? you think a 3rd evaluation year was really a good idea? really? strike 3.....
decastro behind kahlil was the best OL in the draft. RT no. could he be moved, yes.
yes, the fans all year long were screaming for a megatron, a deep threat wide receiver. guess you didn't join us in the browns tavern at all last year. besides having the most drops in the league every monday the forums were filled with how our receiving corp was shit (little was the only glimmer of hope and he dropped a ton of balls THAT WERE IN HIS HANDS).
would it be fair to 'evaluate' richardson with no OL? how about playing hurt? so you'd give a pass to someone in that position but not a QB?
so now this is weeden's evaluation year?
when does it become holmgren's evaluation year?
i'm not butt-hurt about the browns. i'll stick with them through thick and thin. it's just plain stupid to me that we could have got the #1 wide receiver (w/0 giving up picks), the #2 RB in our first 2 picks and the rest of heckert's picks would have been unaffected.
make sense to you yet sparky?
i'm tired of this bitchfest. let's just agree to disagree. who knows they could all be busts or they could all be superstars. you're right: you, i and all the other fans have no say in how this org. is run.
maybe that's the problem.
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in other words, you panties are bunched cause he didn't take the positions when YOU thought they should have been. why is there only one way? the problem is, your memory is already fuzzy....
the steelers took decastro....and he's not a RT. strike 1....
"everyone's #1 need"? no, those whose opinions dont matter #1 need, ie fans. fans are fans, and as such for a reason. they dont know wnough to be gainfully employed in football. strike 2....
wasting another year to see if noodles can get it together and justify...what....his third round draft status, while fans are screaming for their heads? you think a 3rd evaluation year was really a good idea? really? strike 3.....
decastro behind kahlil was the best OL in the draft. RT no. could he be moved, yes.
yes, the fans all year long were screaming for a megatron, a deep threat wide receiver. guess you didn't join us in the browns tavern at all last year. besides having the most drops in the league every monday the forums were filled with how our receiving corp was shit (little was the only glimmer of hope and he dropped a ton of balls THAT WERE IN HIS HANDS).
would it be fair to 'evaluate' richardson with no OL? how about playing hurt? so you'd give a pass to someone in that position but not a QB?
so now this is weeden's evaluation year?
when does it become holmgren's evaluation year?
i'm not butt-hurt about the browns. i'll stick with them through thick and thin. it's just plain stupid to me that we could have got the #1 wide receiver (w/0 giving up picks), the #2 RB in our first 2 picks and the rest of heckert's picks would have been unaffected.
make sense to you yet sparky?
i'm tired of this bitchfest. let's just agree to disagree. who knows they could all be busts or they could all be superstars. you're right: you, i and all the other fans have no say in how this org. is run.
maybe that's the problem.
decastro behind kahlil was the best OL in the draft. RT no. could he be moved, yes.
yes, the fans all year long were screaming for a megatron, a deep threat wide receiver. guess you didn't join us in the browns tavern at all last year. besides having the most drops in the league every monday the forums were filled with how our receiving corp was shit (little was the only glimmer of hope and he dropped a ton of balls THAT WERE IN HIS HANDS).
would it be fair to 'evaluate' richardson with no OL? how about playing hurt? so you'd give a pass to someone in that position but not a QB?
so now this is weeden's evaluation year?
when does it become holmgren's evaluation year?
i'm not butt-hurt about the browns. i'll stick with them through thick and thin. it's just plain stupid to me that we could have got the #1 wide receiver (w/0 giving up picks), the #2 RB in our first 2 picks and the rest of heckert's picks would have been unaffected.
make sense to you yet sparky?
i'm tired of this bitchfest. let's just agree to disagree. who knows they could all be busts or they could all be superstars. you're right: you, i and all the other fans have no say in how this org. is run.
maybe that's the problem.
Except the talent level drop off between the #1 RB and the #2 RB was much greater than the drop off between the #1 WR and the #5 WR.
Any one of the top 4 or 5 WR's in this draft (Blackmon, Hill, Jeffery, Floyd, Wright and maybe even Sanu) are for the most part interchangeable. They have different skill sets, sure, but none are considered nearly as "elite" as Richardson was. Whether or not I believe in Richardson's eliteness is a different matter altogether, the fact is that he was considered by all draft "experts" head and shoulders above the rest of the RB pool.
Blackmon was drawing comparisons to Michael Crabtree, Hakeem Nicks and Larry Fitzgerald... as a slower, less explosive and less precise route running version of them. Is that what you really want to pull the trigger on with your first pick? By some accounts, he wouldn't have been a top 10 or top 15 pick in years past. I'll ask again, is that really what you want to pull the trigger on with your first pick?
You're so against us replacing McCoy after 2 seasons because he was still "being evaluated" and had to deal with a lack of talent around him, yet you want to replace Greg Little as #1 WR after his rookie season because... why again? He dropped too many errant passes? He looked unpolished?
The guy say out an entire year of football and was still drafted in the second round, a full 26 positions AHEAD of where McCoy was drafted. That doesn't sound like a #2 or a slot receiver to me.
The reason we didn't draft a #1 WR is clear:
Little was drafted to be our #1 WR from the get-go.
Make sense to YOU yet, Sparky?
And since you were asking, yes...I would give a pass to Richardson and to Weeden if they had to play hurt and without an OL. Because they are first round draft picks.
Colt McCoy is not.
McCoy is a third round draft pick who plays like one would expect a third round draft pick to play. He's nothing stellar. He's not going to wow you with his big arm or walk up to a line and dissect a defense completely pre-snap. He's going to manage games. He's going to take the safe route. He's going to dink and dunk his way down the field, and then turn around and dink and dunk his way back up the field.
Unfortunately for him, our offense wasn't able to help him do that. And the guys upstairs finally realized that nobody else in the AFC North survives by doing that either. So they went out and got them a RB who will absolutely punish would be tacklers and make them regret every strapping up their chinstraps.
That is why they pulled the trigger on Richardson with the #3 pick.
Then they went out and got a guy who will sling the rock around the field like Flacco and Roethlisberger do every Sunday.
And that's why they pulled the trigger on Weeden in the first round.
EDIT: To address your first point, Schwartz was rated as the number one RT in the draft. It's not like we picked up some practice squad putz in the seventh round.
DOUBLE EDIT: What good is having a deep threat receiver when we don't have a QB with the arm strength to get it to him? He may not have been chatting with us during the games, but I was there and I seem to remember that being the main counterpoint in the tavern throughout the season.
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thanks u nigle.
ain't my first day. we'll see the #'s at the end of the year. i hope ur right with all your inside knowledge of the game.
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while ive been vehemently against your position mik, you could very well be right. like you, im not very happy with the current regime. yet, i try to keep an open mind about what they are doing.
it took alot of convincing to get me on board with TR at 3....or 4. i certainly wouldn't have drafted as we had this year either.....i probly would have taken one of the WR's at 22.....had no clue on weeden as everyone thought his age was such a big deal. after at least seeing some defensive progress come out of these last 2 drafts, i do have to smile since we've drafted horribly with every past regime.....and no, heckert isn't perfect, but he's better than anyone prior.
so while the picks may not be idea to everyones opinions, at a minimum, try to see that there is actually a plan in place (and they're sticking to it).....whether the plan works has yet to be seen, but i think we have early signs of life. they're not just articulating the rudder for no reason. i think the biggest shock was this team building the defense first considering "the great mike holmgren, offensive genius and QB guru" is coming to save the city. that right there, should tell everyone that Tom Heckert has more say than anyone thinks, and is the real brains behind the build. fatass is the hood ornament....
sorry for badgering ya so....im not trying to question your fandom. dissent doesn't reflect fandom....the amount of bullshit tolerated, in some part does...
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while ive been vehemently against your position mik, you could very well be right. like you, im not very happy with the current regime. yet, i try to keep an open mind about what they are doing.
it took alot of convincing to get me on board with TR at 3....or 4. i certainly wouldn't have drafted as we had this year either.....i probly would have taken one of the WR's at 22.....had no clue on weeden as everyone thought his age was such a big deal. after at least seeing some defensive progress come out of these last 2 drafts, i do have to smile since we've drafted horribly with every past regime.....and no, heckert isn't perfect, but he's better than anyone prior.
so while the picks may not be idea to everyones opinions, at a minimum, try to see that there is actually a plan in place (and they're sticking to it).....whether the plan works has yet to be seen, but i think we have early signs of life. they're not just articulating the rudder for no reason. i think the biggest shock was this team building the defense first considering "the great mike holmgren, offensive genius and QB guru" is coming to save the city. that right there, should tell everyone that Tom Heckert has more say than anyone thinks, and is the real brains behind the build. fatass is the hood ornament....
sorry for badgering ya so....im not trying to question your fandom. dissent doesn't reflect fandom....the amount of bullshit tolerated, in some part does...
while ive been vehemently against your position mik, you could very well be right. like you, im not very happy with the current regime. yet, i try to keep an open mind about what they are doing.
it took alot of convincing to get me on board with TR at 3....or 4. i certainly wouldn't have drafted as we had this year either.....i probly would have taken one of the WR's at 22.....had no clue on weeden as everyone thought his age was such a big deal. after at least seeing some defensive progress come out of these last 2 drafts, i do have to smile since we've drafted horribly with every past regime.....and no, heckert isn't perfect, but he's better than anyone prior.
so while the picks may not be idea to everyones opinions, at a minimum, try to see that there is actually a plan in place (and they're sticking to it).....whether the plan works has yet to be seen, but i think we have early signs of life. they're not just articulating the rudder for no reason. i think the biggest shock was this team building the defense first considering "the great mike holmgren, offensive genius and QB guru" is coming to save the city. that right there, should tell everyone that Tom Heckert has more say than anyone thinks, and is the real brains behind the build. fatass is the hood ornament....
sorry for badgering ya so....im not trying to question your fandom. dissent doesn't reflect fandom....the amount of bullshit tolerated, in some part does...
All good discussion. I too was irritated that we traded up for a RB with the top pick and was definitely miffed when we took Weeden at 22. I thought WR was our biggest need at the time. But then I sat back and looked at it. We got a stud, unquestioned #1 RB who is a perfect fit for the AFC North who brings attitude and toughness that is much needed (plus a good locker room guy I think). And we finally got a QB with a legit arm who has grown on me a lot. Past Weeden, there wasn't really another QB I wanted to take high in the draft. If Weeden turns around and has 5 good seasons for us it wont matter how old he is or if we took him at #22 and not #37, a QB trumps all other positions.
We got our RT, who I also have grown to like a lot. And with our 2 guards having a full 16 games under their belt, they have the real potential to come together as an elite offensive line.
Yes, we didnt draft a WR as high as I, or a lot of other people, would have hoped. But lets face it, we had a TON of holes to fill coming into the draft and did a pretty damn good job of filling many of them. There was no elite WR to be had at #4 I believe and it looks like we would have picked up Kendall Wright at #22 if he was there. But, he wasnt there, not really Heckerts fault. This draft may not produce any #1 WRs at all, and I see the potential for a lot of busts. Also look at the teams with the most passing yards last year: New Orleans, New England, Green Bay, Detroit, NY Giants. Except for Calvin Johnson and Hakeem Nicks (who may not be the best receiver on his team) there are no 1st round WRs on those teams. You see great QBs and consistency. Not saying Weeden will be on that level, but I think he is definitely an upgrade from Colt, and thats a start. One thing I love about Holmgren and Heckert is they hopefully will bring consistency in personnel, through building through the draft, and consistency in schemes so that we wont have to change all the coaching staff and offense and defense every three years. That is how you build a winner.
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i'm past my month long tirade on weeden. my question was not weeden and his ability is was the fact that they drafted a QB at all.
i read an article today (don't know if the author is biased against weeden or not....) that implied that the browns would be better off starting mccoy just on the fact that he knows the offense better, can do things out of the pocket (which the author pointed out weeden can't) and knows all about the speed at which the pro game is played.
he also pointed out that if we do start weeden and he turns out to be a bust (and NO i don't want that to happen) you then lose any trade value in either QB which led up to his final point:
if both our QBs are deemed useless do we then sell the farm next year to draft barkley who has played four years in a west coast pro style offense?
and to that last point he made is why i questioned drafting a QB at all this year.
BUT hey here's to the browns WINNING!!!! with who or whatever, hell or high water.
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Any updates on your opinions yet?
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no because we coulda got a running back @22 or later, we picked a QB when we needed a RT (who the steelers picked right after us) and did squadoosh to address everyone's 'number one' need....WR.
yes i was willing to give mccoy another shot this year with those additions we should have made. if he didn't pan out then get him the fuck out. i don't have a crush on any player like some do. i'm just realistic.
talk to ya in november.
no because we coulda got a running back @22 or later, we picked a QB when we needed a RT (who the steelers picked right after us) and did squadoosh to address everyone's 'number one' need....WR.
We got the projected best RT available. DeCastro was never a OT, he is a guard. There is no reason to believe that The Schwartz would not be as good as DeCastro.
yes i was willing to give mccoy another shot this year with those additions we should have made. if he didn't pan out then get him the fuck out. i don't have a crush on any player like some do. i'm just realistic.
talk to ya in november.
As far as I can see the Browns addressed every single one of their major needs on offense: QB, RB, WR, RT, even possibly RG or at least backup OL in Ryan Miller. They even helped their primary need on Defense with the two LBs they took.
I am not sure what all this nitpicking is about.
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