Five In Five Out
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ESPN has been showing this feature the last couple of weeks or so, so why don't we give it a crack:
For 16 consecutive years at least 5 or more of the playoff teams from the previous season failed to make the playoffs the following year. So, the question here is: which 5 or more that were in last year will be out this coming year. Hear are the teams that were in last year:
AFC: Texans, Broncos, Bengals, Steelers, Ravens, Patriots
NFC: Saints, Lions, Falcons, Packers, 49ers, Giants
Who do you think will be out, and why?
I guess the other side of that coin is: which 5 teams will be in that were out last year?
ESPN has been showing this feature the last couple of weeks or so, so why don't we give it a crack:
For 16 consecutive years at least 5 or more of the playoff teams from the previous season failed to make the playoffs the following year. So, the question here is: which 5 or more that were in last year will be out this coming year. Hear are the teams that were in last year:
AFC: Texans, Broncos, Bengals, Steelers, Ravens, Patriots
NFC: Saints, Lions, Falcons, Packers, 49ers, Giants
Who do you think will be out, and why?
I guess the other side of that coin is: which 5 teams will be in that were out last year?
Five Out: Bengals, Steelers, Broncos, Lions, Giants
Five In: Browns, Chargers, Jets, Eagles, Cowboys
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I wouldn't be too surprised if Cam Newton gets his Panthers in the playoffs this year.
Jeff Fischer may motivate the Rams into the playoffs.
Chargers and Bears should climb back in this year also.
Bengals i hope regress. Saints have alot of turmoil. Atlanta won't sneak in there this year. Texans will wilt.
Steelers all contract HIV and are banned from the playoffs.
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Five Out: Bengals, Steelers, Lions, Giants, Saints
Five In: Bears, Bills, Eagles, Redskins, Rams/Browns
The Browns and Rams were both bottom 5 teams last year. The past few years a bottom five team has jumped into the playoff picture. Hoping it is us obviously. I know we will surprise people this year but I don't if it is to the extent of a playoff push.
ex: Broncos and Bengals went from bottom 5 to playoff spots last year. Kansas City did it the year before, Bengals the year before that, and Miami in 2007.
Bengals and Bears also seem to switch being good and bad every other year. This year the Bears should step it up.
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Five Out: Bengals, Steelers, Lions, Giants, Saints
Five In: Bears, Bills, Eagles, Redskins, Rams/Browns
The Browns and Rams were both bottom 5 teams last year. The past few years a bottom five team has jumped into the playoff picture. Hoping it is us obviously. I know we will surprise people this year but I don't if it is to the extent of a playoff push.
ex: Broncos and Bengals went from bottom 5 to playoff spots last year. Kansas City did it the year before, Bengals the year before that, and Miami in 2007.
Bengals and Bears also seem to switch being good and bad every other year. This year the Bears should step it up.
Five Out: Bengals, Steelers, Lions, Giants, Saints
Five In: Bears, Bills, Eagles, Redskins, Rams/Browns
The Browns and Rams were both bottom 5 teams last year. The past few years a bottom five team has jumped into the playoff picture. Hoping it is us obviously. I know we will surprise people this year but I don't if it is to the extent of a playoff push.
ex: Broncos and Bengals went from bottom 5 to playoff spots last year. Kansas City did it the year before, Bengals the year before that, and Miami in 2007.
Interesting point. That is not something I knew. I will have to look that up more.
Bengals and Bears also seem to switch being good and bad every other year. This year the Bears should step it up.
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Over the last 16 seasons, 13 out of the 16 seasons did in fact have a bottom five team (a team whose record gave them a top 5 draft pick) make it to the playoffs the following season. One of the exceptions was the 6th overall pick by the Bengals in 2009 that was due to their tie with the Eagles that season which made their record technically better than the 4-12 teams that year, keeping them out of the top 5 in the draft. By moving it to the first 6 picks in the draft (which would account for teams with bottom 5 records being out due to tiebreakers and coin flips) there would have been 20 teams who had bottom 5 records who made the playoffs the following year in the last 16 seasons. Even for those skeptical, 16 teams with actual bottom 5 records with top 5 draft picks made the play offs through that span. And all but the 2001 season and 2002 season did a team with at least a top 6 pick in the draft not make the playoffs the next season.
Below is the past 16 season showing what teams went from having one of the bottom 5 records in the league to a playoff team, it also shows what pick they had and who they drafted:
(excluding 2001 and 2002 where both teams were tied for the 6th worst record in the NFL.)
2010/2011: Broncos (4-12/8-8) 2nd overall (Von Miller), Bengals (4-12/9-7) 4th overall (AJ Green)
2009/2010: Chiefs (4-12/10-6) 5th overall (Eric Berry)
2008/2009: Bengals (4-11-1/10-6) 6th overall (Andre Smith)
2007/2008: Dolphins (1-16/11-5) 1st overall (Jake Long)
2006/2007: Bucaneers (5-11/9-7) 4th overall, Redskins (5-11/9-7) 6th
2005/2006: Saints (3-13/10-6) 2nd overall (Reggie Bush), Jets (4-12/10-6) 4th overall D'Brickashaw Ferguson)
2004/2005: Bears (5-11/11-5) 4th overall (Cedric Benson), Bucaneers (5-11/11-5) 5th overall (Cadillac Williams)
2003/2004: Chargers (4-12/12-4) 1st overall (Eli Manning trade for Phillip Rivers)
2002/2003: Cowboys (5-11/10-6) 5th overall (Terrence Newman)
2001/2002: None (Colts 6-10/10-6) 11th Overall (Dwight Freeney)
2000/2001: None (Bears 5-11/13-3) 8th overall (David Terrell)
1999/2000: Eagles (5-11/11-5) 6th overall (Todd Pinkston), Saints (3-13/10-6) 2nd overall (Trade to Redskins)
1998/1999: Colts (3-13/13-3) 4th overall (Edgerrin James), Rams (4-12/13-3) 6th overall (Torry Holt)
1997/1998: Cardinals (4-12/9-7) 2nd overall pick (trade with San Diego for 3rd overall, Chargers drafted Ryan Leaf)
1996/1997: Lions (5-11/9-7) 5th overall Pick (Bryant Westbrook)
1995/1996: Jaguars (4-12/9-7) 2nd Overall pick (Kevin Hardy)
My prediction is either the Rams or Browns are the bottom 5 team from last year to step it up. I cannot see the others having that much success yet and if this trend stays true then we may be in for a very surprising season. The bottom 5 teams being the Colts, Rams, Vikings, Browns, Buccaneers.
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AFC out:
broncos were a fluke last year. see ya.
ravens defense is getting too old. out.
texans, bengals, chargers, patriots and buffalo in.
NFC out:
saints too much shite going on.
lions will be hit with suspensions which will affect their outcome.
falcons, packers, bears, giants and 49ers in.
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Endymion said:
AFCE: Patriots.
AFCN: Steelers
The Steelers will not have a #1 defense this year, but the players remaining are projected to be healthy. I think that despite the loses the Steelers will have a #6 rated defense. Offensively, I expect them to explode and be comparable to the Pats/Packers. The Ravens will contend for a wildcard spot. I don't see the Bengals as competitors so the Bengals are out (1). However, the Ravens have a pretty long streak a making the play-offs so they are bound for a down year, but it will come down to the wire for them. The Ravens are out (2)
Sure, the Ravens beat you twice last year- once in a blowout- but you're still better. Whatever. Both teams have issues with aging (or stars coming off injuries issues).
Sure, the Ravens beat you twice last year- once in a blowout- but you're still better. Whatever. Both teams have issues with aging (or stars coming off injuries issues).
The Ravens took some defensive hits in free agency. First, they've lost another defensive coordinator and have taken some hits on defense (Redding and Johnson). Plus the injury to Suggs will further hamper their defense in the early part of the season. Mr. Lewis ain't no spring chicken either. So defensively, I think the Ravens are worse off than the Steelers and I think they will have trouble stopping the run. Flacco doesn't impress me.
The Steelers have bolstered their offensive line this off-season. Ben should be better protected. Haley can work miracles with a QB and improve Ben's release (see our game versus the Patriots last year). The Steelers have a strong recieving core and IMO a top 5 QB. There's no reason for the offense to regress, and we can't possibly have any worse an injury situation in 2012 than we've had in 2011 or 2010.
Besides 2011 ain't 2012. Just cause we lost twice to the Ravens last year does not mean we will lose any games to them in 2012. The Ravens have the longest active play-off streak at 4 seasons. It's tough (but not impossible) to keep that going. Only a dozen teams have six or more consecutive seasons.
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@mike-h said:
Browns in, Pisspuke to the cellar.
Endymion cries himself to sleep.
While you may hate Pittsburgh's sports teams, I do not inherently hate Cleveland's sports teams. I would have no problem seeing the Browns make it into the play-offs. However, I do not believe the Browns are capable of making the play-offs in 2012.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
Frankly, I see teh Steelers in a downhill spiral. Tomlin inherited a winner, but year by year, little-by-little, the Steelers of today are nowhere near the intensity level Cower's teams were. You can see that whatever recipe they had, is slowly turning to shit. Ben is close to the end of his road and probably will suffer othopaedic troubles this year.
Screw whoever else is making the playoffs, I know this much......... The Browns are in and the Vermin are out.
SO let it be written.
I don't know about that. Tomlin isn't the scream in your face intensity guy that Cowher was, but I looked into it a few monthes ago and I don't think his drafts have been any worse than Cowhers. Maybe it has more to do with their FO/ownership than Tomlin, that I don't know. But there hasn't been much of a dropoff in the results.
Their defense has definitely lost a step as a unit and it wouldn't surprise me if they miss the playoffs this year. But a downward spiral as a franchise just doesn't seem to be the near future for them.
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AFC
1st Seed: Broncos
2nd Seed: Patriots
3rd Seed: Ravens
4th Seed: Texans
5th Seed: Chiefs
6th Seed: Bills
NFC:
1st Seed: Packers
2nd Seed: Cowboys
3rd Seed: 49ers
4th Seed: Buccaneers
5th Seed: Eagles
6th Seed: Panthers
I have some reaches but I firmly believe in those reaches.
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Over the last 16 seasons, 13 out of the 16 seasons did in fact have a bottom five team (a team whose record gave them a top 5 draft pick) make it to the playoffs the following season. One of the exceptions was the 6th overall pick by the Bengals in 2009 that was due to their tie with the Eagles that season which made their record technically better than the 4-12 teams that year, keeping them out of the top 5 in the draft. By moving it to the first 6 picks in the draft (which would account for teams with bottom 5 records being out due to tiebreakers and coin flips) there would have been 20 teams who had bottom 5 records who made the playoffs the following year in the last 16 seasons. Even for those skeptical, 16 teams with actual bottom 5 records with top 5 draft picks made the play offs through that span. And all but the 2001 season and 2002 season did a team with at least a top 6 pick in the draft not make the playoffs the next season.
Below is the past 16 season showing what teams went from having one of the bottom 5 records in the league to a playoff team, it also shows what pick they had and who they drafted:
(excluding 2001 and 2002 where both teams were tied for the 6th worst record in the NFL.)
2010/2011: Broncos (4-12/8-8) 2nd overall (Von Miller), Bengals (4-12/9-7) 4th overall (AJ Green)
2009/2010: Chiefs (4-12/10-6) 5th overall (Eric Berry)
2008/2009: Bengals (4-11-1/10-6) 6th overall (Andre Smith)
2007/2008: Dolphins (1-16/11-5) 1st overall (Jake Long)
2006/2007: Bucaneers (5-11/9-7) 4th overall, Redskins (5-11/9-7) 6th
2005/2006: Saints (3-13/10-6) 2nd overall (Reggie Bush), Jets (4-12/10-6) 4th overall D'Brickashaw Ferguson)
2004/2005: Bears (5-11/11-5) 4th overall (Cedric Benson), Bucaneers (5-11/11-5) 5th overall (Cadillac Williams)
2003/2004: Chargers (4-12/12-4) 1st overall (Eli Manning trade for Phillip Rivers)
2002/2003: Cowboys (5-11/10-6) 5th overall (Terrence Newman)
2001/2002: None (Colts 6-10/10-6) 11th Overall (Dwight Freeney)
2000/2001: None (Bears 5-11/13-3) 8th overall (David Terrell)
1999/2000: Eagles (5-11/11-5) 6th overall (Todd Pinkston), Saints (3-13/10-6) 2nd overall (Trade to Redskins)
1998/1999: Colts (3-13/13-3) 4th overall (Edgerrin James), Rams (4-12/13-3) 6th overall (Torry Holt)
1997/1998: Cardinals (4-12/9-7) 2nd overall pick (trade with San Diego for 3rd overall, Chargers drafted Ryan Leaf)
1996/1997: Lions (5-11/9-7) 5th overall Pick (Bryant Westbrook)
1995/1996: Jaguars (4-12/9-7) 2nd Overall pick (Kevin Hardy)
My prediction is either the Rams or Browns are the bottom 5 team from last year to step it up. I cannot see the others having that much success yet and if this trend stays true then we may be in for a very surprising season. The bottom 5 teams being the Colts, Rams, Vikings, Browns, Buccaneers.
Over the last 16 seasons, 13 out of the 16 seasons did in fact have a bottom five team (a team whose record gave them a top 5 draft pick) make it to the playoffs the following season. One of the exceptions was the 6th overall pick by the Bengals in 2009 that was due to their tie with the Eagles that season which made their record technically better than the 4-12 teams that year, keeping them out of the top 5 in the draft. By moving it to the first 6 picks in the draft (which would account for teams with bottom 5 records being out due to tiebreakers and coin flips) there would have been 20 teams who had bottom 5 records who made the playoffs the following year in the last 16 seasons. Even for those skeptical, 16 teams with actual bottom 5 records with top 5 draft picks made the play offs through that span. And all but the 2001 season and 2002 season did a team with at least a top 6 pick in the draft not make the playoffs the next season.
Below is the past 16 season showing what teams went from having one of the bottom 5 records in the league to a playoff team, it also shows what pick they had and who they drafted:
(excluding 2001 and 2002 where both teams were tied for the 6th worst record in the NFL.)
2010/2011: Broncos (4-12/8-8) 2nd overall (Von Miller), Bengals (4-12/9-7) 4th overall (AJ Green)
2009/2010: Chiefs (4-12/10-6) 5th overall (Eric Berry)
2008/2009: Bengals (4-11-1/10-6) 6th overall (Andre Smith)
2007/2008: Dolphins (1-16/11-5) 1st overall (Jake Long)
2006/2007: Bucaneers (5-11/9-7) 4th overall, Redskins (5-11/9-7) 6th
2005/2006: Saints (3-13/10-6) 2nd overall (Reggie Bush), Jets (4-12/10-6) 4th overall D'Brickashaw Ferguson)
2004/2005: Bears (5-11/11-5) 4th overall (Cedric Benson), Bucaneers (5-11/11-5) 5th overall (Cadillac Williams)
2003/2004: Chargers (4-12/12-4) 1st overall (Eli Manning trade for Phillip Rivers)
2002/2003: Cowboys (5-11/10-6) 5th overall (Terrence Newman)
2001/2002: None (Colts 6-10/10-6) 11th Overall (Dwight Freeney)
2000/2001: None (Bears 5-11/13-3) 8th overall (David Terrell)
1999/2000: Eagles (5-11/11-5) 6th overall (Todd Pinkston), Saints (3-13/10-6) 2nd overall (Trade to Redskins)
1998/1999: Colts (3-13/13-3) 4th overall (Edgerrin James), Rams (4-12/13-3) 6th overall (Torry Holt)
1997/1998: Cardinals (4-12/9-7) 2nd overall pick (trade with San Diego for 3rd overall, Chargers drafted Ryan Leaf)
1996/1997: Lions (5-11/9-7) 5th overall Pick (Bryant Westbrook)
1995/1996: Jaguars (4-12/9-7) 2nd Overall pick (Kevin Hardy)
My prediction is either the Rams or Browns are the bottom 5 team from last year to step it up. I cannot see the others having that much success yet and if this trend stays true then we may be in for a very surprising season. The bottom 5 teams being the Colts, Rams, Vikings, Browns, Buccaneers.
Nice work. I might also point out that the Patriots in 2000 were I believe 5-11. The next year they won the Super Bowl. Though I think a 199th draft pick had as much to do with that improvement as a top 5 pick.
That just bolsters the proposition that indeed, apparently a "bottom 5" team from one year can and do jump into playoff spots. Maybe it is the Browns turn to do that.
(though...perhaps they did do that in 2002?)
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AFC out:
broncos were a fluke last year. see ya.
ravens defense is getting too old. out.
texans, bengals, chargers, patriots and buffalo in.
NFC out:
saints too much shite going on.
lions will be hit with suspensions which will affect their outcome.
falcons, packers, bears, giants and 49ers in.
AFC out:
broncos were a fluke last year. see ya.
ravens defense is getting too old. out.
texans, bengals, chargers, patriots and buffalo in.
NFC out:
saints too much shite going on.
lions will be hit with suspensions which will affect their outcome.
falcons, packers, bears, giants and 49ers in.
You are missing a team from each conference. It would appear that you believe the Steelers will make it as they were in last year and you didn't say they would be out. Plus yo will need to choose another in team from the NFC.
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Sure, the Ravens beat you twice last year- once in a blowout- but you're still better. Whatever. Both teams have issues with aging (or stars coming off injuries issues).
The Ravens took some defensive hits in free agency. First, they've lost another defensive coordinator and have taken some hits on defense (Redding and Johnson). Plus the injury to Suggs will further hamper their defense in the early part of the season. Mr. Lewis ain't no spring chicken either. So defensively, I think the Ravens are worse off than the Steelers and I think they will have trouble stopping the run. Flacco doesn't impress me.
The Steelers have bolstered their offensive line this off-season. Ben should be better protected. Haley can work miracles with a QB and improve Ben's release (see our game versus the Patriots last year). The Steelers have a strong recieving core and IMO a top 5 QB. There's no reason for the offense to regress, and we can't possibly have any worse an injury situation in 2012 than we've had in 2011 or 2010.
Besides 2011 ain't 2012. Just cause we lost twice to the Ravens last year does not mean we will lose any games to them in 2012. The Ravens have the longest active play-off streak at 4 seasons. It's tough (but not impossible) to keep that going. Only a dozen teams have six or more consecutive seasons.
Endymion said:
The Ravens took some defensive hits in free agency. First, they've lost another defensive coordinator and have taken some hits on defense (Redding and Johnson). Plus the injury to Suggs will further hamper their defense in the early part of the season. Mr. Lewis ain't no spring chicken either. So defensively, I think the Ravens are worse off than the Steelers and I think they will have trouble stopping the run. Flacco doesn't impress me.
I pretty much agree with this.
The Steelers have bolstered their offensive line this off-season. Ben should be better protected. Haley can work miracles with a QB and improve Ben's release (see our game versus the Patriots last year). The Steelers have a strong recieving core and IMO a top 5 QB. There's no reason for the offense to regress, and we can't possibly have any worse an injury situation in 2012 than we've had in 2011 or 2010.
Here, much of your offensive line will be young...so it remains to be seen how good they will be. They may or may not be much of an improvement.
On your receiving corps you did lose your glue in Ward. Who knows what affect that may have on that unit. My belief is that it weakens them. Yes, Haley should be an improvement.
But don't count on having a better injury situation. Any number of times we thought the Browns injury situation couldn't get worse.....and it just got worse.
Besides 2011 ain't 2012. Just cause we lost twice to the Ravens last year does not mean we will lose any games to them in 2012. The Ravens have the longest active play-off streak at 4 seasons. It's tough (but not impossible) to keep that going. Only a dozen teams have six or more consecutive seasons.
Again, don't assume that because one of the other teams in the division may be worse that your team may also not be worse.
How many times over the past decade have we said that he talent gap between the Browns and everyone else is closing.....yet it never close. Don't assume dick.
By the way....I think the talent gap between the Browns and the rest of the division is closing.
I'm a Glutton for punishment I guess.PS. I started reading Dan Simmons "Flashback" book. Only a few pages in. I did note that the one character's name is Hiroshi "Hiro" Nakamura. Same name as the guy from Heroes.
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@mike-h said:
Browns in, Pisspuke to the cellar.
Endymion cries himself to sleep.
While you may hate Pittsburgh's sports teams, I do not inherently hate Cleveland's sports teams. I would have no problem seeing the Browns make it into the play-offs. However, I do not believe the Browns are capable of making the play-offs in 2012.
Endymion said:
While you may hate Pittsburgh's sports teams, I do not inherently hate Cleveland's sports teams. I would have no problem seeing the Browns make it into the play-offs. However, I do not believe the Browns are capable of making the play-offs in 2012.
When the Browns win 8-10 Super Bowls here you will begin hating them
I would hope, as I said, talent wise that they have closed the gap to a potential playoff caliber team. Yet, the fact is, so much of their talent is young. A three year veteran on this team is an old timer. At least half their starters will be first or second year players.
I would hope that starting a year from now they would be a constant playoff threat.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
Well, just stay tuned. this is the same kind of shit that happened when Rutigliano handed off to Stinkenhiemer. Each year to most it seemed like a continuation, but it wsn't. Marty inherited a potent offense and he slowly ruined it.
If you don't think there is a HUGE intensity difference between Cohwer's Steelers and Tomlins, then I don't think you are very astute. The Steelers D has become downright easy. Save for Harrision bitchslapping our players, the Steelers D no longer strikes fear in people. They are no longer that difficult to score on and I can't remember the last time the D was credited with winning on a day when the offense stuttered.
They are woefully down in takeaways, something the Cowher teams were stellar in.
Trust me, Tomlin is a Putney Swope, a phony. This guy is lowering the Steelers a bit more each and every year.
The Browns will sweep the Steelers in 2012.
I pretty sure I already said Tomlin doesn't have nearly the intensity in player interaction as cowher did.
I'll have to check the stats, but I'm pretty sure the Steelers D finished top 5 quite a few times under Tomlin. Maybe I'm screwing up the years, but I thought it was in 08 that the Steelers D finished #1 overall in multiple categories. Tomlin is a career defensive coach, but I doubt he was even allowed to touch Lebuea's masterpiece when he was hired. And I don't know, I'm just guessing, but maybe the reason why the defense doesn't carry the Steeler as much is because their offense got better.
Last year there was some major holes in their run defense, and in the years prior they only had 1 NFL caliber corner on their roster, so who knows what they will be like this year. Their D had a lot of room to fall off some. Maybe the have, maybe they will. The Browns are getting better and the Steelers very beatable. (Tebow) Sweep this year? I wouldn't bet on it now, but in 3 monthes maybe things will be different. The Steelers have enough major pieces to remain competitive for the near future and the Browns still have a lot to prove. Browns can very easily make deep playoff runs within 4-5 years and the Steelers can have their season end by week 17. It's just hard for me to get too excited before it actually happens. It's not fun getting burned.
ADDITION: The Steelers are known for never having good kick/punt returners. Literally never. I even just googled up Rod Woodson's return stats thinking maybe he was good. He had 2 career punt returns and 2 career kick returns for TDs. Not exactly eye popping. Since Tomlin became their HC I know that they have had 3 really good return men. That receiver Brown that the have went to the pro bowl as the return guy last year.
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Here's how I see the Browns:
If Richardson lives up to his billing as an elite running back (excluding Jim Brown's analysis), the Browns will have a strong running game this year. The Browns will be able to wear opponents down with the ground game, and probably keep most games close. Your defense has very good pass coverage, which should keep the opponent's scoring from getting too out of hand, most of the time. However, the Browns will struggle against elite QBs who will still be able to find open recievers, and get their team up by 10 or more points.
The Browns major problem on defense is stopping the run. Just as the Browns will wear down opposing defenses with their run game, the opponent will do the same to the Browns defense. If a team can get up on the Browns by 10 points or more, the Browns do not have the QB/recievers to pull the team out of the fire.
Weeden has a strong arm, but has not demonstrated great decision making under blitz pressure. The skill set between McCoy and Weeden is vastly different. I don't see Shurmur as being able to adapt his style on the fly between both QBs. Weeden isn't going to learn much sitting behind Colt, so he's got to play Weeden. If he doesn't plan to use Weeden day 1, your offense is going to be a complete disaster if he tries to insert him mid-season, because the line timing will be way off. Further, despite his age, I think Weeden needs to spend his first year on the sidelines to reach his full potential, but the Browns don't have that luxury.
Weeden will struggle early on, adapting from the college to the pros. Shurmur must take the gameplan used by other successful rookie QBs, and limit Weeden's attempts to like 15-20 per game. Since McCoy and Weeden are so different, you absolutely don't want Weeden injured for any length of time if at all. However, if you fall behind and expect Weeden to bail the team out with his arm, he will get beat up and experience alot of negative plays. Too many negative plays and Browns fans will not be receptive to him, which will further hamper his development and the Browns chances to be a contender during Weeden's stay.
While the Browns fans want a play-off appearance this year, the coaching staff should not approach this year with that mindset. This year they have to develop Weeden. They have to get your QB prepared for next year. Its' more important to develop Weeden than to get to the play-offs. They will develop Weeden by limiting his attempts per game, and worrying about him getting his timing and defensive reads down than in winning games. If they properly develop Weeden this year, your team will be a play-off contender in 2013 and beyond.
I did not read Dan Simmons Flashback series, the only other series I read from him was the Illium series
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
Well, just stay tuned. this is the same kind of shit that happened when Rutigliano handed off to Stinkenhiemer. Each year to most it seemed like a continuation, but it wsn't. Marty inherited a potent offense and he slowly ruined it.
If you don't think there is a HUGE intensity difference between Cohwer's Steelers and Tomlins, then I don't think you are very astute. The Steelers D has become downright easy. Save for Harrision bitchslapping our players, the Steelers D no longer strikes fear in people. They are no longer that difficult to score on and I can't remember the last time the D was credited with winning on a day when the offense stuttered.
They are woefully down in takeaways, something the Cowher teams were stellar in.
Trust me, Tomlin is a Putney Swope, a phony. This guy is lowering the Steelers a bit more each and every year.
The Browns will sweep the Steelers in 2012.
I pretty sure I already said Tomlin doesn't have nearly the intensity in player interaction as cowher did.
I'll have to check the stats, but I'm pretty sure the Steelers D finished top 5 quite a few times under Tomlin. Maybe I'm screwing up the years, but I thought it was in 08 that the Steelers D finished #1 overall in multiple categories. Tomlin is a career defensive coach, but I doubt he was even allowed to touch Lebuea's masterpiece when he was hired. And I don't know, I'm just guessing, but maybe the reason why the defense doesn't carry the Steeler as much is because their offense got better.
Last year there was some major holes in their run defense, and in the years prior they only had 1 NFL caliber corner on their roster, so who knows what they will be like this year. Their D had a lot of room to fall off some. Maybe the have, maybe they will. The Browns are getting better and the Steelers very beatable. (Tebow) Sweep this year? I wouldn't bet on it now, but in 3 monthes maybe things will be different. The Steelers have enough major pieces to remain competitive for the near future and the Browns still have a lot to prove. Browns can very easily make deep playoff runs within 4-5 years and the Steelers can have their season end by week 17. It's just hard for me to get too excited before it actually happens. It's not fun getting burned.
ADDITION: The Steelers are known for never having good kick/punt returners. Literally never. I even just googled up Rod Woodson's return stats thinking maybe he was good. He had 2 career punt returns and 2 career kick returns for TDs. Not exactly eye popping. Since Tomlin became their HC I know that they have had 3 really good return men. That receiver Brown that the have went to the pro bowl as the return guy last year.
I pretty sure I already said Tomlin doesn't have nearly the intensity in player interaction as cowher did.
I'll have to check the stats, but I'm pretty sure the Steelers D finished top 5 quite a few times under Tomlin. Maybe I'm screwing up the years, but I thought it was in 08 that the Steelers D finished #1 overall in multiple categories. Tomlin is a career defensive coach, but I doubt he was even allowed to touch Lebuea's masterpiece when he was hired. And I don't know, I'm just guessing, but maybe the reason why the defense doesn't carry the Steeler as much is because their offense got better.
Last year there was some major holes in their run defense, and in the years prior they only had 1 NFL caliber corner on their roster, so who knows what they will be like this year. Their D had a lot of room to fall off some. Maybe the have, maybe they will. The Browns are getting better and the Steelers very beatable. (Tebow) Sweep this year? I wouldn't bet on it now, but in 3 monthes maybe things will be different. The Steelers have enough major pieces to remain competitive for the near future and the Browns still have a lot to prove. Browns can very easily make deep playoff runs within 4-5 years and the Steelers can have their season end by week 17. It's just hard for me to get too excited before it actually happens. It's not fun getting burned.
ADDITION: The Steelers are known for never having good kick/punt returners. Literally never. I even just googled up Rod Woodson's return stats thinking maybe he was good. He had 2 career punt returns and 2 career kick returns. Not exactly eye popping. Since Tomlin became their HC I know that they have had 3 really good return men. That receiver Brown that the have went to the pro bowl as the return guy last year.
FYI guys, the Steeler defense is run by Dick LeBeau. With him there they will be good, regardless of who is HC. The test will come when LeBeau retires.
Also, on the return men....what about Louis Lipps?
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Here's how I see the Browns:
If Richardson lives up to his billing as an elite running back (excluding Jim Brown's analysis), the Browns will have a strong running game this year. The Browns will be able to wear opponents down with the ground game, and probably keep most games close. Your defense has very good pass coverage, which should keep the opponent's scoring from getting too out of hand, most of the time. However, the Browns will struggle against elite QBs who will still be able to find open recievers, and get their team up by 10 or more points.
The Browns major problem on defense is stopping the run. Just as the Browns will wear down opposing defenses with their run game, the opponent will do the same to the Browns defense. If a team can get up on the Browns by 10 points or more, the Browns do not have the QB/recievers to pull the team out of the fire.
Weeden has a strong arm, but has not demonstrated great decision making under blitz pressure. The skill set between McCoy and Weeden is vastly different. I don't see Shurmur as being able to adapt his style on the fly between both QBs. Weeden isn't going to learn much sitting behind Colt, so he's got to play Weeden. If he doesn't plan to use Weeden day 1, your offense is going to be a complete disaster if he tries to insert him mid-season, because the line timing will be way off. Further, despite his age, I think Weeden needs to spend his first year on the sidelines to reach his full potential, but the Browns don't have that luxury.
Weeden will struggle early on, adapting from the college to the pros. Shurmur must take the gameplan used by other successful rookie QBs, and limit Weeden's attempts to like 15-20 per game. Since McCoy and Weeden are so different, you absolutely don't want Weeden injured for any length of time if at all. However, if you fall behind and expect Weeden to bail the team out with his arm, he will get beat up and experience alot of negative plays. Too many negative plays and Browns fans will not be receptive to him, which will further hamper his development and the Browns chances to be a contender during Weeden's stay.
While the Browns fans want a play-off appearance this year, the coaching staff should not approach this year with that mindset. This year they have to develop Weeden. They have to get your QB prepared for next year. Its' more important to develop Weeden than to get to the play-offs. They will develop Weeden by limiting his attempts per game, and worrying about him getting his timing and defensive reads down than in winning games. If they properly develop Weeden this year, your team will be a play-off contender in 2013 and beyond.
I did not read Dan Simmons Flashback series, the only other series I read from him was the Illium series
Endymion said:
Here's how I see the Browns:
If Richardson lives up to his billing as an elite running back (excluding Jim Brown's analysis), the Browns will have a strong running game this year. The Browns will be able to wear opponents down with the ground game, and probably keep most games close. Your defense has very good pass coverage, which should keep the opponent's scoring from getting too out of hand, most of the time. However, the Browns will struggle against elite QBs who will still be able to find open recievers, and get their team up by 10 or more points.
The Browns major problem on defense is stopping the run. Just as the Browns will wear down opposing defenses with their run game, the opponent will do the same to the Browns defense. If a team can get up on the Browns by 10 points or more, the Browns do not have the QB/recievers to pull the team out of the fire.
Weeden has a strong arm, but has not demonstrated great decision making under blitz pressure. The skill set between McCoy and Weeden is vastly different. I don't see Shurmur as being able to adapt his style on the fly between both QBs. Weeden isn't going to learn much sitting behind Colt, so he's got to play Weeden. If he doesn't plan to use Weeden day 1, your offense is going to be a complete disaster if he tries to insert him mid-season, because the line timing will be way off. Further, despite his age, I think Weeden needs to spend his first year on the sidelines to reach his full potential, but the Browns don't have that luxury.
Weeden will struggle early on, adapting from the college to the pros. Shurmur must take the gameplan used by other successful rookie QBs, and limit Weeden's attempts to like 15-20 per game. Since McCoy and Weeden are so different, you absolutely don't want Weeden injured for any length of time if at all. However, if you fall behind and expect Weeden to bail the team out with his arm, he will get beat up and experience alot of negative plays. Too many negative plays and Browns fans will not be receptive to him, which will further hamper his development and the Browns chances to be a contender during Weeden's stay.
While the Browns fans want a play-off appearance this year, the coaching staff should not approach this year with that mindset. This year they have to develop Weeden. They have to get your QB prepared for next year. Its' more important to develop Weeden than to get to the play-offs. They will develop Weeden by limiting his attempts per game, and worrying about him getting his timing and defensive reads down than in winning games. If they properly develop Weeden this year, your team will be a play-off contender in 2013 and beyond.
All plausible, except that if rookies like Dalton and Newton and others can be successful their first year there is no reason to think that an intelligent, mature guy like Weeden can't. Who knows.
I did not read Dan Simmons Flashback series, the only other series I read from him was the Illium series
I didn't know it was a series. I will have to check that out.
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I pretty sure I already said Tomlin doesn't have nearly the intensity in player interaction as cowher did.
I'll have to check the stats, but I'm pretty sure the Steelers D finished top 5 quite a few times under Tomlin. Maybe I'm screwing up the years, but I thought it was in 08 that the Steelers D finished #1 overall in multiple categories. Tomlin is a career defensive coach, but I doubt he was even allowed to touch Lebuea's masterpiece when he was hired. And I don't know, I'm just guessing, but maybe the reason why the defense doesn't carry the Steeler as much is because their offense got better.
Last year there was some major holes in their run defense, and in the years prior they only had 1 NFL caliber corner on their roster, so who knows what they will be like this year. Their D had a lot of room to fall off some. Maybe the have, maybe they will. The Browns are getting better and the Steelers very beatable. (Tebow) Sweep this year? I wouldn't bet on it now, but in 3 monthes maybe things will be different. The Steelers have enough major pieces to remain competitive for the near future and the Browns still have a lot to prove. Browns can very easily make deep playoff runs within 4-5 years and the Steelers can have their season end by week 17. It's just hard for me to get too excited before it actually happens. It's not fun getting burned.
ADDITION: The Steelers are known for never having good kick/punt returners. Literally never. I even just googled up Rod Woodson's return stats thinking maybe he was good. He had 2 career punt returns and 2 career kick returns. Not exactly eye popping. Since Tomlin became their HC I know that they have had 3 really good return men. That receiver Brown that the have went to the pro bowl as the return guy last year.
FYI guys, the Steeler defense is run by Dick LeBeau. With him there they will be good, regardless of who is HC. The test will come when LeBeau retires.
Also, on the return men....what about Louis Lipps?
Lebeau is in his late 70's, but when I see him on the sidelines I swear he's maybe around 55. Tomlin finding a replacement for LeBeau will be a major test for him, although they could have a coach already on the roster that will move up to DC when LeBeau retires.FYI guys, the Steeler defense is run by Dick LeBeau. With him there they will be good, regardless of who is HC. The test will come when LeBeau retires.
Also, on the return men....what about Louis Lipps?
And yes I did forget about Lipps, but I googled up his stats and he had 3 punt return TDs in his first 2 years, but didn't have another return TD the rest of his career. I just found it odd that despite the fact that the Steelers are rarely short on talent, they never seem to find a decent return guy. Tomlin has more success doing that in his few years than Noll or Cowher ever had.
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