Mccoy > Wheeden
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That's right Colt can't stick up for himself.
Eh, I'm not going to bash Colt for shutting his mouth and playing in spite of everything he's been through. If that's not the best way he could've stuck up for himself, I don't know what is.
Eh, I'm not going to bash Colt for shutting his mouth and playing in spite of everything he's been through. If that's not the best way he could've stuck up for himself, I don't know what is.
great point
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Weeden has to start. While Colt can probably win more games for the Browns in 2012, Weeden has a better chance at turning your franchise around. Due to Weeden's age, you don't have the luxury of letting him sit a year or two. Weeden/Colt have different styles. If the Browns are to compete for the play-offs in the near future, you can't flip-flop and you can't go back to Colt unless Weeden's injured. If you go to Colt now, you've completely wasted your second 1st round pick.
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Weeden has to start. While Colt can probably win more games for the Browns in 2012, Weeden has a better chance at turning your franchise around. Due to Weeden's age, you don't have the luxury of letting him sit a year or two. Weeden/Colt have different styles. If the Browns are to compete for the play-offs in the near future, you can't flip-flop and you can't go back to Colt unless Weeden's injured. If you go to Colt now, you've completely wasted your second 1st round pick.
Endymion said:
Weeden has to start. While Colt can probably win more games for the Browns in 2012, Weeden has a better chance at turning your franchise around. Due to Weeden's age, you don't have the luxury of letting him sit a year or two. Weeden/Colt have different styles. If the Browns are to compete for the play-offs in the near future, you can't flip-flop and you can't go back to Colt unless Weeden's injured. If you go to Colt now, you've completely wasted your second 1st round pick.
yeah, i agree. i've seen the light in your response. the problem is if he looks terrible this year or as colt was judged, the whole offense looks terrible and we win less games than last year, what then?
do we give the guy another year? do we go back to colt? do we fire shurmur and promote someone else as HC? or does haslam gut the whole system and start all over once again? from what i've seen of weeden (not a whole lot here in ny) he's got the arm and can make the throws but what remains to be seen is whether he can hang onto the ball in the pocket and not throw up interceptions when getting bull rushed.
look, i'm not saying the sky is falling. i'm just asking a serious question that will need to answered if we go 4-12 or less, again.
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Endymion said:
Weeden has to start. While Colt can probably win more games for the Browns in 2012, Weeden has a better chance at turning your franchise around. Due to Weeden's age, you don't have the luxury of letting him sit a year or two. Weeden/Colt have different styles. If the Browns are to compete for the play-offs in the near future, you can't flip-flop and you can't go back to Colt unless Weeden's injured. If you go to Colt now, you've completely wasted your second 1st round pick.
yeah, i agree. i've seen the light in your response. the problem is if he looks terrible this year or as colt was judged, the whole offense looks terrible and we win less games than last year, what then?
do we give the guy another year? do we go back to colt? do we fire shurmur and promote someone else as HC? or does haslam gut the whole system and start all over once again? from what i've seen of weeden (not a whole lot here in ny) he's got the arm and can make the throws but what remains to be seen is whether he can hang onto the ball in the pocket and not throw up interceptions when getting bull rushed.
look, i'm not saying the sky is falling. i'm just asking a serious question that will need to answered if we go 4-12 or less, again.
yeah, i agree. i've seen the light in your response. the problem is if he looks terrible this year or as colt was judged, the whole offense looks terrible and we win less games than last year, what then?
do we give the guy another year? do we go back to colt? do we fire shurmur and promote someone else as HC? or does haslam gut the whole system and start all over once again? from what i've seen of weeden (not a whole lot here in ny) he's got the arm and can make the throws but what remains to be seen is whether he can hang onto the ball in the pocket and not throw up interceptions when getting bull rushed.
look, i'm not saying the sky is falling. i'm just asking a serious question that will need to answered if we go 4-12 or less, again.
Yes we give the guy another year.
Name another successful team that completely blows up their roster every year.
Whether or not Colt was treated unfairly is immaterial at this juncture. Weeden is the starter, whether he goes 12-4 or 4-12. At least maintain some semblance of consistency, it's the only way to get better.
I know this argument can be directly applied to Colt's situation, and I agree completely. The only argument I have in the difference in situations is that Weeden has the all the physical tools to be a great QB, whereas Colt was lacking in many's eyes.
It's easier to give a pass to a rookie that looks like Peyton Manning than it is to give a pass to a rookie who looks like Doug Flutie. Fair or not, it's the truth.
EDIT:
Also, this fumbling and interception horseshit is nonsense. He's a rookie. For once, a Cleveland QB is showing that they have all the physical tools to be a legitimate QB on Sundays, and people are freaking out because he's fumbled and thrown interceptions IN THE PRESEASON.
He's going to make these mistakes. It's better that he makes them now, when it doesn't count. It's better that he trusts himself enough to attempt these throws, because I can guarantee that he's going to have to make some risky throws in the regular season and making them now will help him gauge the size of the window he has later in the season. It's better that he actually makes a decision in the pocket, rather than hesitating and eating a sack or scrambling for his life. It's better that he takes the hit and fumbles now, because now he knows taking a sack is getting hit like a mack truck and he better hang on for dear life.
Honestly, I wouldn't have been upset if he went out there and threw 14 picks a game on risky throws from the pocket in the preseason. Because that's experience. And that's what the preseason is: free experience. He'll take that knowledge, and then when it's 3rd and 8 in the 4th quarter and we're down by a touchdown...he'll know that he has to throw the out a full second or more before the WR makes his break because the DB will jump underneath and house it if he doesn't.
That's where Weeden and Colt differ. Because in that situation...all signs point to Colt hanging onto the ball, fleeing the pocket and rushing for a 5 yard gain. Because, and I don't care whether or not you want to believe it, Colt doesn't trust his arm like Weeden does. Colt is a game manager, which there is nothing wrong with. But at this junction, with the young receivers we have and the position the team is in, we don't need a game manager. We need a QB with...and I hate to use this fucking term..."swagger". That's what Weeden brings to the table, and that's what Colt is lacking. That's the reason Weeden gets a pass if he goes 4-12 this year. That's why Weeden was taken in the first round at age 28. That's why Weeden was given the start.
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so we give him another year even if we go 4-12 no problem. do you think shurmur and holmgren hold onto their jobs?
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so we give him another year even if we go 4-12 no problem. do you think shurmur and holmgren hold onto their jobs?
so we give him another year even if we go 4-12 no problem. do you think shurmur and holmgren hold onto their jobs?
Honestly I think Holmgren is gone regardless...Haslam already has his man in mind for President. Frankly I don't think it will hurt Holmgren one bit to walk away given this situation. Shurmer on the other hand will have to show improvement no matter what the final result is. There is a difference between play calling and execution. Shurmer is coaching what he is given, he is not the final say on his roster. If he fails to utilize what talent he has available to its fullest whether that means wins or losses I think he is also on the way out. Heckert is the anomoly IMO. He has history with the person that Haslam wants to bring in and from all accounts it hasn't always been good. We will know more in October when Haslam finally takes control, but I bet we don't have solid answers till the postseason.
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so we give him another year even if we go 4-12 no problem. do you think shurmur and holmgren hold onto their jobs?
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just want to point out that I -- not 30 minutes ago -- agreed to terms and conditions that contained no fewer than 10 homophobic paragraphs about how questioning the starting quaterback was not going to be tolerated.
So, I guess as a newbie the lesson I should take from this is that the "Terms and Rules" are bullshiat? Awesome. NO RULES RULES!!!!
\Kosar's a homo
\\precedence prevents admins from banning me... nanananananaaaa...
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All im saying is dont hand the job to the rook right at the start of camp. That sets a very bad tone throughout the team. It's not good for Wheeden or anyone else. Make him compete for the job, even if it is slanted to his favor
They were pretty dismissive on where Colt McCoy's spot on the team is. They had no problem telling McCoy that he would have to compete for the #2, even after he had to suffer through last season and the crappy "talent" that surrounded him on offense and the scheme that defenses figured out so easily. Yet they cant tell Wheeden that he has to compete? Yes that is absurd.
methinks that Shurmur just wants a scapegoat, and found one in McCoy. That goes along with his MO
Weeden was drafted to replace McCoy, not compete with him.
Shurmur is showing balls. None of the QB "competitions" that Mangini, Crennell or Davis held were good for the team.
Pick a starter and roll.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Pick a starter and roll.
What he really means is add #17 to the list of starting QB's,
and roll out the meat grinder.
Another Browns season, another starter.
Welcome To Cleveland!
Enjoy Your Stay!
It's bound to be a short one.
Like all the rest.
1. Tim Couch
2. Ty Detmer
3. Doug Pederson
4. Spergon Wynn
5. Jeff Garcia
6. Kelly Holcomb
7. Luke McCown
8. Trent Dilfer
9. Charlie Frye
10. Derek Anderson
11. Brady Quinn
12. Ken Dorsey
13. Bruce Gradkowski
14. Colt McCoy
15. Jake Delhomme
16. Seneca Wallace
17.
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Orange85 said:
We just need to all hope that Weeden and Colt do not both get killed this year!
good luck with that.
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so we give him another year even if we go 4-12 no problem. do you think shurmur and holmgren hold onto their jobs?
so we give him another year even if we go 4-12 no problem. do you think shurmur and holmgren hold onto their jobs?
I didn't like the Shurmer pick from the get go. Holmgren doesn't have the fire in his belly (I'll leave that open to Mik to add to). I realistically don't expect many wins this year, and I'm sure that Shurmer and Holmgren will be gone. Will that help? Who the hell knows.
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Zombo said:
Pick a starter and roll.
What he really means is add #17 to the list of starting QB's,
and roll out the meat grinder.
Another Browns season, another starter.
Welcome To Cleveland!
Enjoy Your Stay!
It's bound to be a short one.
Like all the rest.
1. Tim Couch
2. Ty Detmer
3. Doug Pederson
4. Spergon Wynn
5. Jeff Garcia
6. Kelly Holcomb
7. Luke McCown
8. Trent Dilfer
9. Charlie Frye
10. Derek Anderson
11. Brady Quinn
12. Ken Dorsey
13. Bruce Gradkowski
14. Colt McCoy
15. Jake Delhomme
16. Seneca Wallace
17.
What he really means is add #17 to the list of starting QB's,
and roll out the meat grinder.
Another Browns season, another starter.
Welcome To Cleveland!
Enjoy Your Stay!
It's bound to be a short one.
Like all the rest.
1. Tim Couch
2. Ty Detmer
3. Doug Pederson
4. Spergon Wynn
5. Jeff Garcia
6. Kelly Holcomb
7. Luke McCown
8. Trent Dilfer
9. Charlie Frye
10. Derek Anderson
11. Brady Quinn
12. Ken Dorsey
13. Bruce Gradkowski
14. Colt McCoy
15. Jake Delhomme
16. Seneca Wallace
17.
Everyone of those guys was part of a dumb fucking QB controversy. Shurmur is the first coach to say "this is the guy, he is the guy from Day One, we picked him to start, he beat everyone out, he starts, shut the fuck up."
I loved his comment last night that "all three QBs played like backups" ... because that's what they are. Weeden is a starter.
Zombo
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Orange85 said:
I see other QBs around the league looking better than Weeden and Colt that I know for a fact Weeden is better. But they are surrounded by better players.All in all it's difficult to judge QB's in the preseason due to the talent around them being starters or scrubs and the defenses that they are facing being starters or scrubs. . . . but, one thing stands out as linear. Every Steelers QB, from the starter to the guy who just got cut, out-preformed every Browns QB this preseason.
Especially noteworthy was the play of Jerrod Johnson who just got cut.
The Browns passed on drafting Roethlisberger and they probably have their head too far up their ass to claim Jerrod Johnson.
Is Johnson ready to start in the NFL? No, not by Steelers standards, but this kid looks like NFL material.
His limited play produced a 136.2 Passer Rating which is #2 in the entire NFL.
He ran the no-huddle like a seasoned pro.
He showed poise in the pocket, has a strong arm, and makes great decisions under pressure.
He can also take off and run.
The waiver wire is in the same order as the draft right?
The teams ahead of CLE either got a QB in the draft or didn't need or want one in the draft.
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Orange85 said:
I see other QBs around the league looking better than Weeden and Colt that I know for a fact Weeden is better. But they are surrounded by better players.All in all it's difficult to judge QB's in the preseason due to the talent around them being starters or scrubs and the defenses that they are facing being starters or scrubs. . . . but, one thing stands out as linear. Every Steelers QB, from the starter to the guy who just got cut, out-preformed every Browns QB this preseason.
Especially noteworthy was the play of Jerrod Johnson who just got cut.
The Browns passed on drafting Roethlisberger and they probably have their head too far up their ass to claim Jerrod Johnson.
Is Johnson ready to start in the NFL? No, not by Steelers standards, but this kid looks like NFL material.
His limited play produced a 136.2 Passer Rating which is #2 in the entire NFL.
He ran the no-huddle like a seasoned pro.
He showed poise in the pocket, has a strong arm, and makes great decisions under pressure.
He can also take off and run.
The waiver wire is in the same order as the draft right?
The teams ahead of CLE either got a QB in the draft or didn't need or want one in the draft.
All in all it's difficult to judge QB's in the preseason due to the talent around them being starters or scrubs and the defenses that they are facing being starters or scrubs. . . . but, one thing stands out as linear. Every Steelers QB, from the starter to the guy who just got cut, out-preformed every Browns QB this preseason.
Especially noteworthy was the play of Jerrod Johnson who just got cut.
The Browns passed on drafting Roethlisberger and they probably have their head too far up their ass to claim Jerrod Johnson.
Is Johnson ready to start in the NFL? No, not by Steelers standards, but this kid looks like NFL material.
His limited play produced a 136.2 Passer Rating which is #2 in the entire NFL.
He ran the no-huddle like a seasoned pro.
He showed poise in the pocket, has a strong arm, and makes great decisions under pressure.
He can also take off and run.
The waiver wire is in the same order as the draft right?
The teams ahead of CLE either got a QB in the draft or didn't need or want one in the draft.
He also played against the #2's and #3's.
He lost his starting job to Ryan Tannehill, of all people. I'm not saying the guy can't be good. I'm just saying the guy can't be good.
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All in all it's difficult to judge QB's in the preseason due to the talent around them being starters or scrubs and the defenses that they are facing being starters or scrubs. . . . but, one thing stands out as linear. Every Steelers QB, from the starter to the guy who just got cut, out-preformed every Browns QB this preseason.
Especially noteworthy was the play of Jerrod Johnson who just got cut.
The Browns passed on drafting Roethlisberger and they probably have their head too far up their ass to claim Jerrod Johnson.
Is Johnson ready to start in the NFL? No, not by Steelers standards, but this kid looks like NFL material.
His limited play produced a 136.2 Passer Rating which is #2 in the entire NFL.
He ran the no-huddle like a seasoned pro.
He showed poise in the pocket, has a strong arm, and makes great decisions under pressure.
He can also take off and run.
The waiver wire is in the same order as the draft right?
The teams ahead of CLE either got a QB in the draft or didn't need or want one in the draft.
He also played against the #2's and #3's.
He lost his starting job to Ryan Tannehill, of all people. I'm not saying the guy can't be good. I'm just saying the guy can't be good.
He also played against the #2's and #3's.
ummmmm, yeh, he also played with the 2's and 3's and that's the conundrum of the preseason.
Plenty of Steelers fans would have cut Charlie Batch and Byron Leftwich instead.
But we all know that Steelers fans are a bunch of idiots anyways.
I have seen much better than him.
Two preseason's ago the Giants #3 Rhett Bomar drove the #1's all the way down the field against the Steelers 1's again and again.
Bomar played the whole game balls-to-da-wall.
Boman looked like Tom Brady on meth, giving a most impressive performance against a great defense.
Boman never made it in the NFL.
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