Yesterday Shut Up All The Weeden Haters
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i think heckert has given us a solid foundation to build off of.
i'd just like to know what we are trying to build as the team's system. we know the defense jauron runs. what the hell is our offensive stradegy?
our first round picks can lead us to a bright future. but will it be on the arm of weeden or the legs of TR?
52 pass attempts tells me one thing. let's just hope we can get it to a more even like 30 pass attempts and 30 rushing attempts. only thing preventing the latter is our WEAK OL play. (get it ghoolie and rich?)
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You Colt apologists need to go back and watch the 2011 season to remind yourself of how inept McCoy was.
Constant dinking and dunking because he did not have the balls and/or arm strength to get the ball more than 10 yards with any kind of velocity on it.
Endless drama every time his scrawny ass takes a hit with the closeups of him grimacing in pain.
Panic's in the pocket at the sign of any kind of pressure.
Weeden showed against the Ravens that even though he's a less mobile quarterback he was able to stay calm in the pocket under pressure step up and deliver strikes.
People want to cheer for Colt because he's an undersized underdog type with the good ol' boy aw shucks personality and are hanging on to the 4th and 6th he completed to Moore vs Revis against the Jets in 2010.
This is the NFL the overwhelming majority of games are close.
Just as we could of won some close games we could of just as easily lost them.
The refs blew the Seattle game and if not for Del Rio being clueless the Jags should of won, so your argument goes both ways.
I'm not sold on Weeden yet but so far you have to like what you see.
He shows franchise QB potential while Colt was a game manager at best.
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So let me get this straight. You believe that "we need to quit this rebuild bullshit every other year".
And in order to do that, you will "start by cutting every player we have" and "start all over".
Got it.
You got nothing. When I am going to rebuild, I would start from scratch. The only half way player we have is Phil Dawson. Cribbs, has not done much a B- back up at best. Jackson would be a ok on punt coverage. Other than that we have nobody. We couldn't even get a warm cup of piss for Greg Little, Mo mass would not be a starter on any other NFL team.
You got nothing. When I am going to rebuild, I would start from scratch. The only half way player we have is Phil Dawson. Cribbs, has not done much a B- back up at best. Jackson would be a ok on punt coverage. Other than that we have nobody. We couldn't even get a warm cup of piss for Greg Little, Mo mass would not be a starter on any other NFL team.
Thankfully, you aren't in charge.
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So let me get this straight. You believe that "we need to quit this rebuild bullshit every other year".
And in order to do that, you will "start by cutting every player we have" and "start all over".
Got it.
You got nothing. When I am going to rebuild, I would start from scratch. The only half way player we have is Phil Dawson. Cribbs, has not done much a B- back up at best. Jackson would be a ok on punt coverage. Other than that we have nobody. We couldn't even get a warm cup of piss for Greg Little, Mo mass would not be a starter on any other NFL team.
You got nothing. When I am going to rebuild, I would start from scratch. The only half way player we have is Phil Dawson. Cribbs, has not done much a B- back up at best. Jackson would be a ok on punt coverage. Other than that we have nobody. We couldn't even get a warm cup of piss for Greg Little, Mo mass would not be a starter on any other NFL team.
Sure, let's just ditch Joe Thomas, T-Rich, & Haden. Think before you post.
Of course, let's write off Weeden, Benjamin, Gordon, and Schwartz after 4 games while we're at it.
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So let me get this straight. You believe that "we need to quit this rebuild bullshit every other year".
And in order to do that, you will "start by cutting every player we have" and "start all over".
Got it.
You got nothing. When I am going to rebuild, I would start from scratch. The only half way player we have is Phil Dawson. Cribbs, has not done much a B- back up at best. Jackson would be a ok on punt coverage. Other than that we have nobody. We couldn't even get a warm cup of piss for Greg Little, Mo mass would not be a starter on any other NFL team.
Jackson would be a ok on punt coverage.
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Lol, last year we were one TD a game away from being 9-6-1. Colt had us in a lot of games, it's not like we were getting blown out, it's that our defense always got gassed in the 4th quarter and we had no one on offense to make a play consistently.
And we're a touchdown away in each game from being 3-1 this year under Weeden.
I haven't seen us get blown out this year. In fact, our team has looked better under Weeden than it ever did under Colt.
What is your point again?
And we're a touchdown away in each game from being 3-1 this year under Weeden.
I haven't seen us get blown out this year. In fact, our team has looked better under Weeden than it ever did under Colt.
What is your point again?
I've said so many times that I'm not that invested in McCoy, I just wanted to let his contract run out and grab talent at other positions rather than reaching for a QB who isn't even a 1st round talent.
My argument isn't that McCoy is our franchise QB, it's that we drafted a QB when we had no business doing so. And Weeden has made us no better despite passing for more yards. Colt had a TD:INT of 6:3 four games in last season, while Weeden has a 3:9. Weeden isn't further along than Colt, he's a project himself and we don't have the time to develop him.
You act like you make great points and the entire tone of your post is condescending, but you're not even making a great argument. You're argument is that we're no worse under Weeden, like that matters.
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Disagree. We'd be 2-2. But the bright side is that Weeden is driving us toward a higher draft position.
roach (according to mnay of the knuckleheads here, if you're not going to win the Superbowl, you should try to finish 0-16).
Besides the Eagles game..which other game do you think we win with Colt?
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Who said there was a question?
@king-ghoolie-lives said:
A lot of people here actually believe there is a chance Colt will be the starter. Colt has found his level. The Browns couldn't find a trade for him, or otherwise he would be gone.
Exactly. I saw Weeden make throws on Thursday night in a driving rain McCoy is utterly incapable of making. Yes, he stared down his receiver for a pick six, but hopefully he'll learn from that mistake. Also looked on that int the ball may have slipped a little- didn't have his normal velocity.
As posted earlier, Weeden does not have a quick release most of the time, he is a day late and a dollar short for this league.
OK, granted Weeden falls short of Dan Marino in that category. I do think he'll learn to recognize coverages and get rid of the ball faster. Problem is he doesn't have a 4 year window to learn that as Joe Flacco did.
And the "give the QB more weapons" chorus grows...
I do think he'll learn to recognize coverages and get rid of the ball faster. Problem is he doesn't have a 4 year window to learn that as Joe Flacco did.
h...
The problem is mechanics... not recognition.
Watch the pick 6 again and you'll see that BW comes a way from center with the ball in great position, i.e., at the chest plate in both hands. But then he drops the ball to waist level before coming up into his delivery position from his right shoulder.
In other words.... he winds up... like the baseball pitcher he is.
I've been beating this drum since before the draft.
Not a simple fix...
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1) First pick in the draft next year should be Brad Smith. Good luck convincing yourself that RG3 would have the same record as Weeden or McCoy. Washington's OL is a tub of warm piss compared to JT, Mack, and Schwartz. Also, Washington's WR corps isn't any better than ours. MoMa may be crap, but Josh Morgan isn't better in any way.
2) Little's incompetance isn't Weeden's fault
3) Seriously, quit saying that the browns are "no better" with weeden than mccoy. For that to be a useful statement, you'd have to replay the same game so that the only variable is the QB -- and obviously that's impossible. We have the second-toughest schedule in the league this year.. I have no doubt McCoy would go 0-16 as the 2012 starter even with the addition of Schwartz, TR, and Gordon.
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And we're a touchdown away in each game from being 3-1 this year under Weeden.
I haven't seen us get blown out this year. In fact, our team has looked better under Weeden than it ever did under Colt.
What is your point again?
I've said so many times that I'm not that invested in McCoy, I just wanted to let his contract run out and grab talent at other positions rather than reaching for a QB who isn't even a 1st round talent.
My argument isn't that McCoy is our franchise QB, it's that we drafted a QB when we had no business doing so. And Weeden has made us no better despite passing for more yards. Colt had a TD:INT of 6:3 four games in last season, while Weeden has a 3:9. Weeden isn't further along than Colt, he's a project himself and we don't have the time to develop him.
You act like you make great points and the entire tone of your post is condescending, but you're not even making a great argument. You're argument is that we're no worse under Weeden, like that matters.
who said weeden wasn't a first round talent? Besides the eagles game he has been just as servicable if not better than luck or tannahill. when is it okay to like a draft pick that u originally didnt? its nothing but pride to say I don't like weeden now JUST BECAUSE I didn't like him on draft day.I've said so many times that I'm not that invested in McCoy, I just wanted to let his contract run out and grab talent at other positions rather than reaching for a QB who isn't even a 1st round talent.
My argument isn't that McCoy is our franchise QB, it's that we drafted a QB when we had no business doing so. And Weeden has made us no better despite passing for more yards. Colt had a TD:INT of 6:3 four games in last season, while Weeden has a 3:9. Weeden isn't further along than Colt, he's a project himself and we don't have the time to develop him.
You act like you make great points and the entire tone of your post is condescending, but you're not even making a great argument. You're argument is that we're no worse under Weeden, like that matters.
I hated the pick myself but I am amped to see him for the rest of the year
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Look I'm gonna throw this out there. Hopefully it makes sense to some people.
McCoy and weeden are interchangeable to me. They both have pros and cons.
I'm ok with us drafting weeden.. The downside is that we picked a qb that If we are lucky can grab 3-4 serviceable years out of. And maybe 1-2 good years.
Why drop a first round pick on a player that will only be around for a short time when you have a comparable qb you are already working on. That #22 pick l COULD have been used on a different position to upgrade the overall team on the long run. I don't like picking players for the short run. I want BPA long term goals.
You forget when you draft a player or trade back or up you need to think about what you are giving up to do so.
In my opinion we would be better off in the long run with colt and a diff #22 pick. In the short term... Weeden might pan out.
I just hope he doesn't get hurt.... 29 year old rookie getting hurt and having to sit out a season? It's going to look like the worst first round pick since Jamarcus russell
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And we're a touchdown away in each game from being 3-1 this year under Weeden.
I haven't seen us get blown out this year. In fact, our team has looked better under Weeden than it ever did under Colt.
What is your point again?
I've said so many times that I'm not that invested in McCoy, I just wanted to let his contract run out and grab talent at other positions rather than reaching for a QB who isn't even a 1st round talent.
My argument isn't that McCoy is our franchise QB, it's that we drafted a QB when we had no business doing so. And Weeden has made us no better despite passing for more yards. Colt had a TD:INT of 6:3 four games in last season, while Weeden has a 3:9. Weeden isn't further along than Colt, he's a project himself and we don't have the time to develop him.
You act like you make great points and the entire tone of your post is condescending, but you're not even making a great argument. You're argument is that we're no worse under Weeden, like that matters.
I've said so many times that I'm not that invested in McCoy, I just wanted to let his contract run out and grab talent at other positions rather than reaching for a QB who isn't even a 1st round talent.
My argument isn't that McCoy is our franchise QB, it's that we drafted a QB when we had no business doing so. And Weeden has made us no better despite passing for more yards. Colt had a TD:INT of 6:3 four games in last season, while Weeden has a 3:9. Weeden isn't further along than Colt, he's a project himself and we don't have the time to develop him.
You act like you make great points and the entire tone of your post is condescending, but you're not even making a great argument. You're argument is that we're no worse under Weeden, like that matters.
Under what circumstances do you not consider Weeden a first round talent? Because, no offense to you, but those who are paid to analyze drafts all had Weeden as a top 10 talent if not for his age.
Weeden was taken in the draft because he's less of a project than any other QB available at that point, and the clock was ticking on this coaching regime. Holmgren has said and shown that he's not adverse to taking a QB every year, he actually encourages it.
How exactly don't we have the time to develop Weeden? Because he's 28? You do realize that, prior to the NFL Draft Weeden spoke with all 32 team doctors in the NFL and there was not one that saw any sort of structural deterioration or damage to his throwing shoulder as a result from baseball.
“I spoke with all 32 teams’ doctors and not one of them, after taking a look at my MRIs, said there was even an issue. I haven’t had any surgeries, I haven’t had any serious, serious arm issues. I’ve been pretty lucky, especially since I’ve been at Oklahoma State. I haven’t had any shoulder pain at all, which has been really nice … I throw about 300 balls a practice. We throw the ball a lot. If there was any issue, I wouldn’t last five years (at Oklahoma State). I could go out there right now and throw for hours and not even be fatigued, it’s just something different about throwing a football than throwing a baseball.”
According to Weeden, there wasn't a single NFL scout/coach/GM he spoke with that saw anything wrong with his "advanced age".
“I talk to NFL teams about it; it’s not even an issue. Age is a zero, non-issue now. I’ve stated my case (to the teams) and they’ve tended to agree with me. Obviously it gets tiresome to talk about it all the time, but at the same time I’ve finally got it to where (teams agree) it’s a non-issue.”
So why exactly don't we have time to develop him?
My argument that we are no worse under Weeden was a direct response to the arguments that we would be 4-0 under Colt, which is preposterous. If you can't see the difference between Colt and Weeden, you have no business watching football.
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We don't have the time to develop him because he's nowhere near being a complete QB. He's inconsistent as hell, and a lot of you guys feel like it's easy as hell to fix inaccuracy, when it's not. He's not just gonna have this rough rookie campaign and somehow be some great, pinpoint accurate QB next season. It's gonna take a couple seasons, and then he'll be 31-32. The whole "I'm ok if we have 4-5 good years because we've sucked for so long" idea is fucking Retarded. Then what? Do we rebuild again, do we draft a QB to develop under Weeden in a couple seasons? You don't want to think about this shit in a QB's rookie season but it's hard not to seeing as he'll turn 30 in his second season. I didn't say anything about his strength/health, I don't know why you brought it up.
I don't know why you're citing these articles, when you can see with your eyes that Weeden is no finished product and isn't close either. Weeden definitely has tools that Colt will never have, but those tools are nowhere near close to coming together. Do you understand that?
I never said we'd be 4-0 under Colt, my point is that we were better off starting him this season and filling other needs because we're obviously a shitty team and had no business spending a 1st rounder on a QB, especially one with such a low ceiling. We spent a 1st rounder on a guy who projects to be at best a big-armed gun-slinging QB. So basically, if everything goes perfect, we have Jay Cutler as our QB...and those odds are slim.
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Look I'm gonna throw this out there. Hopefully it makes sense to some people.
McCoy and weeden are interchangeable to me. They both have pros and cons.
I'm ok with us drafting weeden.. The downside is that we picked a qb that If we are lucky can grab 3-4 serviceable years out of. And maybe 1-2 good years.
Why drop a first round pick on a player that will only be around for a short time when you have a comparable qb you are already working on. That #22 pick l COULD have been used on a different position to upgrade the overall team on the long run. I don't like picking players for the short run. I want BPA long term goals.
You forget when you draft a player or trade back or up you need to think about what you are giving up to do so.
In my opinion we would be better off in the long run with colt and a diff #22 pick. In the short term... Weeden might pan out.
I just hope he doesn't get hurt.... 29 year old rookie getting hurt and having to sit out a season? It's going to look like the worst first round pick since Jamarcus russell
Look I'm gonna throw this out there. Hopefully it makes sense to some people.
McCoy and weeden are interchangeable to me. They both have pros and cons.
I'm ok with us drafting weeden.. The downside is that we picked a qb that If we are lucky can grab 3-4 serviceable years out of. And maybe 1-2 good years.
Why drop a first round pick on a player that will only be around for a short time when you have a comparable qb you are already working on. That #22 pick l COULD have been used on a different position to upgrade the overall team on the long run. I don't like picking players for the short run. I want BPA long term goals.
Bingo. But I'm not talking abut Weeden. Change the discussion to Running Back. To my mind, the Browns drafted Richardson ridiculously high, and not only that gave up draft picks in the process. TR had better be Tomlinson good in the long haul- or- we gave up far too much to draft him. 20\20 hindsight tells me Holmgren & Heckert panicked this April, and did a couple of major reaches. Vikes weren't taking Richardson believe the conspiracy theories other teams were willing to jump ahead of the Browns-fat chance, and
Hey, where's all the "shoulda kept Hillis" crowd now? Peyton is averaging 4.4 ypc with the Chiefs in limited action.
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We don't have the time to develop him because he's nowhere near being a complete QB. He's inconsistent as hell, and a lot of you guys feel like it's easy as hell to fix inaccuracy, when it's not. He's not just gonna have this rough rookie campaign and somehow be some great, pinpoint accurate QB next season. It's gonna take a couple seasons, and then he'll be 31-32. The whole "I'm ok if we have 4-5 good years because we've sucked for so long" idea is fucking Retarded. Then what? Do we rebuild again, do we draft a QB to develop under Weeden in a couple seasons? You don't want to think about this shit in a QB's rookie season but it's hard not to seeing as he'll turn 30 in his second season. I didn't say anything about his strength/health, I don't know why you brought it up.
I don't know why you're citing these articles, when you can see with your eyes that Weeden is no finished product and isn't close either. Weeden definitely has tools that Colt will never have, but those tools are nowhere near close to coming together. Do you understand that?
I never said we'd be 4-0 under Colt, my point is that we were better off starting him this season and filling other needs because we're obviously a shitty team and had no business spending a 1st rounder on a QB, especially one with such a low ceiling. We spent a 1st rounder on a guy who projects to be at best a big-armed gun-slinging QB. So basically, if everything goes perfect, we have Jay Cutler as our QB...and those odds are slim.
We don't have the time to develop him because he's nowhere near being a complete QB. He's inconsistent as hell, and a lot of you guys feel like it's easy as hell to fix inaccuracy, when it's not. He's not just gonna have this rough rookie campaign and somehow be some great, pinpoint accurate QB next season. It's gonna take a couple seasons, and then he'll be 31-32. The whole "I'm ok if we have 4-5 good years because we've sucked for so long" idea is fucking Retarded. Then what? Do we rebuild again, do we draft a QB to develop under Weeden in a couple seasons? You don't want to think about this shit in a QB's rookie season but it's hard not to seeing as he'll turn 30 in his second season. I didn't say anything about his strength/health, I don't know why you brought it up.
I don't know why you're citing these articles, when you can see with your eyes that Weeden is no finished product and isn't close either. Weeden definitely has tools that Colt will never have, but those tools are nowhere near close to coming together. Do you understand that?
I never said we'd be 4-0 under Colt, my point is that we were better off starting him this season and filling other needs because we're obviously a shitty team and had no business spending a 1st rounder on a QB, especially one with such a low ceiling. We spent a 1st rounder on a guy who projects to be at best a big-armed gun-slinging QB. So basically, if everything goes perfect, we have Jay Cutler as our QB...and those odds are slim.
You know what being inconsistent is? It's called being a rookie.
Weeden was said to be one of, if not the most, accurate QB in the draft. His problem isn't accuracy, it's pressure. He makes rash decisions and trusts his arm more than a rookie should. Like any great quarterback, he believes he can fit the ball in the tiniest window. And that's going to get him into trouble until he has a grasp on the speed of the defense. Windows are smaller and tighter. He learned that, against Baltimore, maybe the out route needs to be thrown a half-second earlier.
And that's why he's light years ahead of Colt. Colt is indecisive and has a weak arm.
By what reasoning do you find that he has a low ceiling? And please, give me real reasoning this time other than..."well he's old and he's thrown 7 interceptions".
Jay Cutler? Try Brett Favre.
Your argument is unfounded and stupid.
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Yeah... accurate clay pigeon killer...
Pathetic, subjective analysis, TCPU...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
@king-ghoolie-lives said:
Actually, while he may be a thinking fan, he isn't a very intelligent one......
We should of?
Ahem, the proper choice of words are............. WE SHOULD'VE or WE SHOULD HAVE.
There is no meaning to the phrase, "we should of" This is yet another example of how dumb America has become.
actually his exact words were shouldn't of....which is still incorrect grammar, yes.
but does it make me dumb because i understood what he meant or you dumb because you didn't? or you understood what he meant BUT had to do an internet grammar lesson anyway?
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Yeah... accurate clay pigeon killer...
Pathetic, subjective analysis, TCPU...
I'm sorry, what's wrong with that analysis again?
Just because Weeden was asked to participate in a gaudy Sport Science Draft Special episode doesn't negate his natural talent. You can hold sour grapes all you want, but Weeden is the starter, will be the starter, and Colt McCoy has no future in Cleveland...barring injury. Those are the facts. Weeden's physical tools far outweigh those of Colt's and that's why he is where he is.
As I'm sure you haven't realized, nor taken the time to research- a large part of the reasoning behind the selection of Weeden was the system he ran in college. The "Air Raid" style offense run at Oklahoma State, while using different nomenclature, incorporates many aspects of the West Coast Offense run in Cleveland. The West Coast is predicated on crossing and rub routes, as is the Air Raid.
Weeden's natural talent is something that can't be taught. He has the velocity to make a field side out throw on time (largely known as the hardest throw for a QB to make). His arm strength gives him the ability to throw into tight seams without necessarily needing to plant his feet step into the throw, an asset that Colt does not and can not ever possess.
Weeden exhibited problems with boundary side out throws in college. He tended to throw the receiver inside, and as we saw in Baltimore, than can easily lead to a pick six. Weeden also exhibits problems when forced outside the pocket, as his mobility leaves something to be desired and he knows it. When forced outside the pocket, Weeden has a tendency to double clutch. His accuracy drops greatly when throwing across his body, as he seems to throw the ball much harder to make up for the power lost in the awkward body position. Conversely, Weeden is very maneuverable inside the pocket and seems to exhibit good instincts.
Is that more to your liking?
Or would you rather me say "Weeden sucky, Colt good"
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride
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