Let's End This Colt Talk
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I'm tired of seeing the same played out argument "If Colt had the weapons Weeden had, he would have been much more successful" or "Colt got two wins in his first four games with no help from the rest of his team".
In Colt's first four games, there were 94 total points scored by the Browns. Colt contributed to 18 of those points. (3 TD's)
In Weeden's first four games, there were 73 total points scored and Weeden also contributed to 18 of those points. (3 TD's)
So Colt was responsible for around 18% of the total point production whereas Weeden has been responsible for around 24%.
In Colt's first four starts, the Browns put up over 100 yards rushing three times. Peyton Hillis got at least one rushing touchdown every game, with two in the Patriots game. Chansi Stuckey also had a rushing TD.
(The Saints win was largely a defensive effort. The Browns only put together 210 total yards of offense. The win came from two pick sixes by David Bowens. )
In Weeden's first four starts, the Browns only had one 100 yard rushing game, and coincidentally Weeden had his best single game performance that game. Richardson has had two rushing touchdowns during that span, and there has only been one defensive touchdown.
For those keeping track at home:
Colt's first four: 5 rushing TD's, 8 field goals, 2 defensive TD's
Weeden's first four: 2 rushing TD's, 7 field goals, 1 defensive TD)
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By calling for an end to all the Colt talk, all you are doing is fueling the fire for more Colt talk. DOH!
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colt's first 4 games: browns record 2 and 2.
weeden's first 4 games: browns record 0 and 4.
your post only adds fuel to this fire. you don't like colt, fine. but to say this team is worse off this year IS NUTS!
so is it the play calling? (then why hire childress and shurmur, when mangini had his rookie playing better. you know, the rookie with less talent0?so the argument becomes, is it the OL, because i coulda swore the regime was going to fix that this year in the draft? is it the running game, because we gave up 3 picks to move up 2 spots for this BEAST rb, so that's an upgrade, correct? is it the WR corp, because we added a WR speedster that was supposed to solve that problem. besides benjamin it's the same unit as mccoy had.
so they upgraded the coaching staff, upgraded the OL, upgraded the running game, upgraded the WR corp and have a better defense and colt still comes out on top in his first four starts.
dude you are shooting yourself in the foot.
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By calling for an end to all the Colt talk, all you are doing is fueling the fire for more Colt talk. DOH!
By calling for an end to all the Colt talk, all you are doing is fueling the fire for more Colt talk. DOH!
I agree with the end to Colt talk, but I am afraid The Gipper is right. When I see trolls post on here it seems like a lack of the response is the best response. Without someone to argue with, they will have to resort to being miserable by themselves.
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colt's first 4 games: browns record 2 and 2.
weeden's first 4 games: browns record 0 and 4.
your post only adds fuel to this fire. you don't like colt, fine. but to say this team is worse off this year IS NUTS!
so is it the play calling? (then why hire childress and shurmur, when mangini had his rookie playing better. you know, the rookie with less talent0?so the argument becomes, is it the OL, because i coulda swore the regime was going to fix that this year in the draft? is it the running game, because we gave up 3 picks to move up 2 spots for this BEAST rb, so that's an upgrade, correct? is it the WR corp, because we added a WR speedster that was supposed to solve that problem. besides benjamin it's the same unit as mccoy had.
so they upgraded the coaching staff, upgraded the OL, upgraded the running game, upgraded the WR corp and have a better defense and colt still comes out on top in his first four starts.
dude you are shooting yourself in the foot.
colt's first 4 games: browns record 2 and 2.
weeden's first 4 games: browns record 0 and 4.
your post only adds fuel to this fire. you don't like colt, fine. but to say this team is worse off this year IS NUTS!
so is it the play calling? (then why hire childress and shurmur, when mangini had his rookie playing better. you know, the rookie with less talent0?so the argument becomes, is it the OL, because i coulda swore the regime was going to fix that this year in the draft? is it the running game, because we gave up 3 picks to move up 2 spots for this BEAST rb, so that's an upgrade, correct? is it the WR corp, because we added a WR speedster that was supposed to solve that problem. besides benjamin it's the same unit as mccoy had.
so they upgraded the coaching staff, upgraded the OL, upgraded the running game, upgraded the WR corp and have a better defense and colt still comes out on top in his first four starts.
dude you are shooting yourself in the foot.
The strength of opponent has been the big difference between this year and last. Our offensive line has faced three of the toughest and deepest defensive lines in the NFL in the Bills, Ravens, and Eagles (who held the Giants to 17 points last week). This weekend's opponent is in the same conversation as those three so don't be surprised if it is a battle on the line of scrimmage. I guess if reality does not support your agenda it should be ignored.
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colt's first 4 games: browns record 2 and 2.
weeden's first 4 games: browns record 0 and 4.
your post only adds fuel to this fire. you don't like colt, fine. but to say this team is worse off this year IS NUTS!
so is it the play calling? (then why hire childress and shurmur, when mangini had his rookie playing better. you know, the rookie with less talent0?so the argument becomes, is it the OL, because i coulda swore the regime was going to fix that this year in the draft? is it the running game, because we gave up 3 picks to move up 2 spots for this BEAST rb, so that's an upgrade, correct? is it the WR corp, because we added a WR speedster that was supposed to solve that problem. besides benjamin it's the same unit as mccoy had.
so they upgraded the coaching staff, upgraded the OL, upgraded the running game, upgraded the WR corp and have a better defense and colt still comes out on top in his first four starts.
dude you are shooting yourself in the foot.
colt's first 4 games: browns record 2 and 2.
weeden's first 4 games: browns record 0 and 4.
Winning is a team stat.
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listen. i didn't start this whole colt vs. weeden debate. i really don't care who plays the position if we win.
i know this year's schedule is crazy hard. i don't know what it was in comparison to colt's rookie season 3 years ago. i'm just pointing out fact. i'm sure a lot of those wins were lucky, but of our losses 6 were by 3 points or less. so that year could have been much better in the w/l column.
i'm not saying bench weeden. i see that he has the arm. BUT I HATE the way he stares down receivers. he's tied for 1st in INTs right now and if he's not careful he'll be #1 for the remainder of the year.
i wasn't happy with the pick of ANY qb this past draft. we had other glaring problems to address. we could have easily manged to pull off a decent year while upgrading areas on our defense and offense while letting either colt rise to the occasion or fall flat on his face. at least we would have known if he'd be our guy and thus not having these conversations right now.
you can't just say one guy sucks and the other is the best thing since sliced bread. the same guys picked both qbs. so either they were drunk and stoopid when they picked colt or they were drunk and stoopid when they picked weeden.
doubt it.
what's done is done and i support the browns no matter who is wearing the jersey. well, unless of course, it's ray lewis.
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Winning is a team stat.
thanks newb.
so the team 3 years ago was better than the team we have right now?
there's too many intangibles that go into each game played than to just come in here with a one line comment. who started what game? what was the majority of the play calling? who made mistakes? how many penalties? how many turnovers etc. etc.
winning is a team stat, well so is losing.
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colt's first 4 games: browns record 2 and 2.
weeden's first 4 games: browns record 0 and 4.
your post only adds fuel to this fire. you don't like colt, fine. but to say this team is worse off this year IS NUTS!
so is it the play calling? (then why hire childress and shurmur, when mangini had his rookie playing better. you know, the rookie with less talent0?so the argument becomes, is it the OL, because i coulda swore the regime was going to fix that this year in the draft? is it the running game, because we gave up 3 picks to move up 2 spots for this BEAST rb, so that's an upgrade, correct? is it the WR corp, because we added a WR speedster that was supposed to solve that problem. besides benjamin it's the same unit as mccoy had.
so they upgraded the coaching staff, upgraded the OL, upgraded the running game, upgraded the WR corp and have a better defense and colt still comes out on top in his first four starts.
dude you are shooting yourself in the foot.
colt's first 4 games: browns record 2 and 2.
weeden's first 4 games: browns record 0 and 4.
your post only adds fuel to this fire. you don't like colt, fine. but to say this team is worse off this year IS NUTS!
so is it the play calling? (then why hire childress and shurmur, when mangini had his rookie playing better. you know, the rookie with less talent0?so the argument becomes, is it the OL, because i coulda swore the regime was going to fix that this year in the draft? is it the running game, because we gave up 3 picks to move up 2 spots for this BEAST rb, so that's an upgrade, correct? is it the WR corp, because we added a WR speedster that was supposed to solve that problem. besides benjamin it's the same unit as mccoy had.
so they upgraded the coaching staff, upgraded the OL, upgraded the running game, upgraded the WR corp and have a better defense and colt still comes out on top in his first four starts.
dude you are shooting yourself in the foot.
I just proved to you the only statistical way possible that Colt had more to work with than Weeden has had so far. Weeden has had less of an impact from his team and has still had some respectable games.
Colt benefitted from a stronger rushing game, better defensive play and better, much better, playcalling.
I never said the coaching staff was upgraded. As a matter of fact, I think it was downgraded. Mangini, in my eyes, is a better playcaller, motivator and strategist than Shurmur.
I do believe the talent potential is severely upgraded, but the production hasn't been there yet. Whether that's the playcalling or the choice to not play Richardson on third downs is immaterial. Richardson can and will be better than Hillis, but through the first four starts, Colt had more help from the running game than Weeden has.
I am not shooting myself in the foot at all. You've been proven, time and time again, to be completely wrong in your argument. Yet you venture ahead, thickly stating "Colt had 2 wins Weeden had 0 I win".
Colt contributed to 18% of team's production. Weeden contributed to 24% thus far. Statistically, that's it. That ends it.
Colt had more help from his team than Weeden has had. Case closed.
Winning is a team stat.
+1
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Throughout all of this, I have never said Colt would be a franchise QB or our savior.
I just think that with how bad our team is, it doesn't matter who our QB is we're still gonna lose a lot of games. We could have put off drafting a QB for another year and kept building a team. There is no denying that we REACHED for Weeden when we could have gotten better value with that pick(David DeCastro, Hightower) and Weeden probably would have been there at 37 if we really wanted him.
This isn't Colt vs Weeden, it's Weeden vs the QB we could've drafted next year. If you truly think that Weeden is gonna be a better QB than Barkley and Smith then you're lost.
And you should probably talk about how bad our offense was last year.
Led the league in drops - Looking that way this year too.
Hillis was a turd and had 3 rushing TD's all season. - Richardson has matched that total already, yeah he has 3 not 2, plus a receiving TD where it may as well have been a rushing TD seeing as it was a checkdown that Richardson made into a play.
Pass Protection was terrible. - It's a lot better this season.
Also, Weeden is on pace for 12 TD's and 28 INT's. I'd much rather have 14 TD's and 11 INT's and give up passing yards for that.
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Winning is a team stat.
thanks newb.
so the team 3 years ago was better than the team we have right now?
there's too many intangibles that go into each game played than to just come in here with a one line comment. who started what game? what was the majority of the play calling? who made mistakes? how many penalties? how many turnovers etc. etc.
winning is a team stat, well so is losing.
thanks newb.
so the team 3 years ago was better than the team we have right now?
there's too many intangibles that go into each game played than to just come in here with a one line comment. who started what game? what was the majority of the play calling? who made mistakes? how many penalties? how many turnovers etc. etc.
winning is a team stat, well so is losing.
The first game was all on Weeden, I agree. Lets not forget about T-Rich either. He didn't have that great of a game during week 1. Week 2 was all on the defense for letting up more than 30 points. Week 3 was on the offense as a whole. They just couldn't get into a rhythm. Week 4 though, that was all on the receivers, especially Gregg Little for dropping the ball non-stop. So Weeden should not be our whipping boy on this forum. It should be the inconsistent play from our Wr's and Defense.
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Or, we could just accept that we're an incomplete team nowhere near close to being a playoff team.
Our WR's are young and they're going to be inconsistent.
Our defense lacks depth and true playmakers so we're going to have bad games.
Our QB is a project and is going to keep fucking up until he gets used to the speed of the NFL and becomes a better decision maker.
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Or, we could just accept that we're an incomplete team nowhere near close to being a playoff team.
Our WR's are young and they're going to be inconsistent.
Our defense lacks depth and true playmakers so we're going to have bad games.
Our QB is a project and is going to keep fucking up until he gets used to the speed of the NFL and becomes a better decision maker.
Or, we could just accept that we're an incomplete team nowhere near close to being a playoff team.
Our WR's are young and they're going to be inconsistent.
Our defense lacks depth and true playmakers so we're going to have bad games.
Our QB is a project and is going to keep fucking up until he gets used to the speed of the NFL and becomes a better decision maker.
I gotta agree with most of this, because it's the honest truth.
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Or, we could just accept that we're an incomplete team nowhere near close to being a playoff team.
Our WR's are young and they're going to be inconsistent.
Our defense lacks depth and true playmakers so we're going to have bad games.
Our QB is a project and is going to keep fucking up until he gets used to the speed of the NFL and becomes a better decision maker.
Or, we could just accept that we're an incomplete team nowhere near close to being a playoff team.
Our WR's are young and they're going to be inconsistent.
Our defense lacks depth and true playmakers so we're going to have bad games.
Our QB is a project and is going to keep fucking up until he gets used to the speed of the NFL and becomes a better decision maker.
But, it is highly possible that after 2-3 more games all that stuff gels. Our you WR become consistent. The defensive depth improves when the injuries and suspensions are resolved....and the project QB gets used to the speed of the NFL and becomes a better decision maker. He has already made strides.
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Or, we could just accept that we're an incomplete team nowhere near close to being a playoff team.
Our WR's are young and they're going to be inconsistent.
Our defense lacks depth and true playmakers so we're going to have bad games.
Our QB is a project and is going to keep fucking up until he gets used to the speed of the NFL and becomes a better decision maker.
But, it is highly possible that after 2-3 more games all that stuff gels. Our you WR become consistent. The defensive depth improves when the injuries and suspensions are resolved....and the project QB gets used to the speed of the NFL and becomes a better decision maker. He has already made strides.
But, it is highly possible that after 2-3 more games all that stuff gels. Our you WR become consistent. The defensive depth improves when the injuries and suspensions are resolved....and the project QB gets used to the speed of the NFL and becomes a better decision maker. He has already made strides.
I don't disagree with you, that's what this season is all about. Getting reps for our ridiculously young players.
And with Haden, Taylor, and JMJ out it does hurt our defense but we still need to draft on defense and try to get some elite talent on that side like at OLB, DE, and Corner. The only positions we're set at are SS, LCB, MLB, and DT. Everything else could use some more talent.
And if Weeden does make strides, starts making the easy throws all the time and shows the ability to place the ball downfield I won't hate it. I don't like him right now, didn't like him when we drafted him, but it can change
At the end of the day I just want the Browns to be good.
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A nice run of 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 wins in a row will fukin stop all this crazy talk lol I think we have a string of WINS Coming everyone hang on !!!
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A nice run of 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 wins in a row will fukin stop all this crazy talk lol I think we have a string of WINS Coming everyone hang on !!!
A nice run of 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 wins in a row will fukin stop all this crazy talk lol I think we have a string of WINS Coming everyone hang on !!!
"Hang on" is a chickenshit urging....
A real fan would urge us to "hold our breath"... and lead by example.
I'm tired of seeing the same played out argument...
And I'm tired of you believing you have proven anything other than your bias...
Let's call it even.
I agree with the end to Colt talk, but I am afraid The Gipper is right. When I see trolls post on here it seems like a lack of the response is the best response. Without someone to argue with, they will have to resort to being miserable by themselves.
Clearly you have no clue what a troll is...
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,[3] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[4] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.Since the topic is Weeden vs McCoy, then anything NOT addressing that is trolling. Thus look in the mirror, sir, and see the troll.
I never said the coaching staff was upgraded. As a matter of fact, I think it was downgraded. Mangini, in my eyes, is a better playcaller, motivator and strategist than Shurmur.
Something we agree on... who'd have believed it... not to mention Ryan vs. Jauron...
Here's a puzzler for you...
Mangini and Colt or Shurmur and Weeden?
Hey... at least it's not the same old Colt vs. Weeden rehash...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
After the first game I wanted to poop on wheeden. He is not very attractive our starting qb should be hot, right?
Any way wheeden has shown some balls the last 3 games.. I think we let him play it out and see how he develops.
Do I think we win a game or two if colt started yes..
why can't we have a hot qb with a good arm? So gay huh?
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I don't want Weeden costing us a chance at an elite-level QB prospect just because Holmgren thinks he's a wizard.
IMO he has the rest of the season, if he does finish with upwards to 30 INT's and less than 15 TD's it's obvious he has to go.
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A nice run of 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 wins in a row will fukin stop all this crazy talk lol I think we have a string of WINS Coming everyone hang on !!!
"Hang on" is a chickenshit urging....
A real fan would urge us to "hold our breath"... and lead by example.
I'm tired of seeing the same played out argument...
And I'm tired of you believing you have proven anything other than your bias...
Let's call it even.
I agree with the end to Colt talk, but I am afraid The Gipper is right. When I see trolls post on here it seems like a lack of the response is the best response. Without someone to argue with, they will have to resort to being miserable by themselves.
Clearly you have no clue what a troll is...
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,[3] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[4] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.Since the topic is Weeden vs McCoy, then anything NOT addressing that is trolling. Thus look in the mirror, sir, and see the troll.
I never said the coaching staff was upgraded. As a matter of fact, I think it was downgraded. Mangini, in my eyes, is a better playcaller, motivator and strategist than Shurmur.
Something we agree on... who'd have believed it... not to mention Ryan vs. Jauron...
Here's a puzzler for you...
Mangini and Colt or Shurmur and Weeden?
Hey... at least it's not the same old Colt vs. Weeden rehash...
And I'm tired of you believing you have proven anything other than your bias...
Let's call it even.
I merely pointed out that the argument "Colt did more with less" was completely unfounded by using statistical analysis.
More than any of the Colt apologists have done.
Something we agree on... who'd have believed it... not to mention Ryan vs. Jauron...
Here's a puzzler for you...
Mangini and Colt or Shurmur and Weeden?
Hey... at least it's not the same old Colt vs. Weeden rehash...
It's a wash, honestly.
It's either vanilla playcalling with a superior physical specimen, or superior playcalling with a vanilla physical specimen. Pick your poison.
Gun to my head, I'd choose Mangini & Colt. The record will probably be the same at the end of the day, but at least you'll get to view exciting football. Nothing like a couple reverses and fake punts to take away the sting of being a sub .500 team.
Mangini and Weeden...now that would be exciting.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride
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