Shurmer
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OK, why would I want to keep on seeing Shurmur get outcoached by guys like Bruce Arians? See games get blown by bad decisions?
BTW, you already have 2 ex-head coaches on the staff, both who IMHO showed more as head coaches than Shurmur ever has. This guy is as bad as the Bengals David Shula.
Haslam is a stability guy, he's not going to run things by hitting the reset button every other year like it has been done over the past decade.
He's going to put his guys in place and then let them do their job.
Why shake things up now (or in a couple weeks at the Bye), and then shake them up again at the end of the Season?
We've got a lot of young players that are still trying to get the hang of the NFL, let's not make it any harder than it already is.
Yes, we have two (or three?) ex Head Coaches on board, but they're no longer Head Coaches for a reason.
Most candidates for a Head Coach position are already working on other Teams, there are only a couple that could possibly be available, but I doubt they'd want to come in mid-Season (I sure wouldn't).
Hopefully, our next Head Coach is a good one that has winning NFL experience, and he'll bring in the supporting crew he wants to help run things and start winning.
Haslam is a stability guy, he's not going to run things by hitting the reset button every other year like it has been done over the past decade.
He's going to put his guys in place and then let them do their job.
Why shake things up now (or in a couple weeks at the Bye), and then shake them up again at the end of the Season?
We've got a lot of young players that are still trying to get the hang of the NFL, let's not make it any harder than it already is.
Do you really think we're getting a good read of the young talent under Shurmurs offense?
I realize that you can't revamp the entire offense in 1 week...But I think giving Childress the reins for the last 6 weeks would allow Banner a more realistic view of who's a keeper
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Just throwing it up there for opinion's sake, not because I'm saying it should happen: Childress had a fairly successful run up there in Minnesota and is clearly a no nonsense guy. It seemed like he got handcuffed with the Brett Favre situation. What's the harm in firing the total dud we have now and seeing what Chilly brings to the table? Give him a 6 week interview to see if he's got the goods.
I like that idea. I also have two names to throw in the hat that haven't been mentioned here. I think we need to look for young coaches who are going to have the fire to succeed so no retreads (Gruden and Cowher are out in my opinion). One is Kyle Shanahan, OC of the Redskins...been around the NFL a long time and his dad is a pretty successful coach, someone to consider. Second is someone who had a HC job before but it didn't go all that well, Josh McDaniels. He was given too much authority in Denver..could be a guy who comes in for his 2nd try as a HC and does a great job, kinda like his current boss in New England.
I like that idea. I also have two names to throw in the hat that haven't been mentioned here. I think we need to look for young coaches who are going to have the fire to succeed so no retreads (Gruden and Cowher are out in my opinion). One is Kyle Shanahan, OC of the Redskins...been around the NFL a long time and his dad is a pretty successful coach, someone to consider. Second is someone who had a HC job before but it didn't go all that well, Josh McDaniels. He was given too much authority in Denver..could be a guy who comes in for his 2nd try as a HC and does a great job, kinda like his current boss in New England.
I grew up with McDaniels and he is a smart kid who has learned from the best. Look how quickly Belicheck snatched him back up when he was fired. He was back with the Patriots within a week. I think he could be a good one and with his NE Ohio roots he might be interested. But somebody would have to have a leash on him because he can be a little bit of a hothead and is prone to rub people the wrong way. Maybe why him and Belichek work together well. He would bring the fire for sure and the fierce competitiveness. I think we would need a strong GM if we gave Josh a shot. I would rather go that route then to take Shanahan though.
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I also think McDaniels is a very interesting prospect as a HC. He's already had the job once so you just have to figure the guy is itching like crazy to be the head guy again and would hopefully have learned from his mistakes like Belicheck did after his stint in Cleveland. There would definitely have to be a GM in place and you already have an owner who is a strong personality as well who I would think keep him in check.
Unless someone can come up with a better name for the next head coach, McDaniels gets my vote.
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I like McDaniels also. Maybe his experience in Denver could have calmed him down somewhat. Maybe going back to Bill and Brady will help him see where he failed in Denver.
"And they don't really know even what they're talkin' about And I can't imagine what empty heads can achieve." -
How many other coaches can you point to the exact moment they lost their jobs?
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Hopefully, our next Head Coach is a good one that has winning NFL experience, and he'll bring in the supporting crew he wants to help run things and start winning.
Just for the record I'll say it again, we need to get Rick Dennison OC of the Texans.
Former NFL Linebacker and understudy of Alex Gibbs,Kubiak and Shanahan.
Just for the record I'll say it again, we need to get Rick Dennison OC of the Texans.
Former NFL Linebacker and understudy of Alex Gibbs,Kubiak and Shanahan.
He may be good, or even great, I don't know much about him.
I really don't want to go down the Rookie Head Coach again though . . . I think we've all seen enough of that to last us several years.
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Haslam is a stability guy, he's not going to run things by hitting the reset button every other year like it has been done over the past decade.
He's going to put his guys in place and then let them do their job.
Why shake things up now (or in a couple weeks at the Bye), and then shake them up again at the end of the Season?
We've got a lot of young players that are still trying to get the hang of the NFL, let's not make it any harder than it already is.
Do you really think we're getting a good read of the young talent under Shurmurs offense?
I realize that you can't revamp the entire offense in 1 week...But I think giving Childress the reins for the last 6 weeks would allow Banner a more realistic view of who's a keeper
Do you really think we're getting a good read of the young talent under Shurmurs offense?
I realize that you can't revamp the entire offense in 2 weeks...But I think giving Childress the reins for the last 6 weeks would allow Banner a more realistic view of who's a keeper
I don't think we'll see that best out of our players under Shurmur (that's the problem with him, he doesn't adapt to his player's abilities), but we should (the Coaches for sure should) get a fairly good inclination of a player's ability.
Could they potentially show better?
You bet, and I think we'll see more of that with a better HC.
Oh, I fixed that timeline for you . . . from last game played, plus Bye week, plus next week to game would give almost two weeks (still not enough time).
While Shurmur didn't really fit my personal preference (DC background) for a HC, I tried to support him, he's just not ready - too rigid (not adapting to player abilities), no fire/enthusiasm, and too many mistakes/bizarre calls.
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Just for the record I'll say it again, we need to get Rick Dennison OC of the Texans.
Former NFL Linebacker and understudy of Alex Gibbs,Kubiak and Shanahan.
He may be good, or even great, I don't know much about him.
I really don't want to go down the Rookie Head Coach again though . . . I think we've all seen enough of that to last us several years.
He may be good, or even great, I don't know much about him.
I really don't want to go down the Rookie Head Coach again though . . . I think we've all seen enough of that to last us several years.
I would rather get a up & coming cord then a retread or one of the big names that has been out of the game for years...
Mike McCoy OC Den
Gus Bradley DC Sea
McCoy has shown he can design a offense around his players and Sea has had a pretty good defense under Bradley...
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>>How many other coaches can you point to the exact moment they lost their jobs?>>
The look on Bud Carson's last game said it all: "This team stinks and I can't make it better". IIRC is was a 30-0 loss to the Bills.
I believe he was gone before the following Sunday.
PS I don't want to see Childress anywhere near the Head Coaching position on the team. MAYBE as a placeholder but nothing more.
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Just for the record I'll say it again, we need to get Rick Dennison OC of the Texans.
Former NFL Linebacker and understudy of Alex Gibbs,Kubiak and Shanahan.
He may be good, or even great, I don't know much about him.
I really don't want to go down the Rookie Head Coach again though . . . I think we've all seen enough of that to last us several years.
He may be good, or even great, I don't know much about him.
I really don't want to go down the Rookie Head Coach again though . . . I think we've all seen enough of that to last us several years.
Without looking it up I'd guess over the past 20 years Superbowl winning coaches are split 50/50 in terms of first jobs as HC vs guys with previous HC experience.
That being said, I'd hope this new owner would do a better job of choosing the Pres,GM and Coach than Lerner, so I think you have to let the past go on that one.
But you make a good point, the guys we've hired have not been good at all and in my opinion Mangini was our best coach since 99.
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He may be good, or even great, I don't know much about him.
I really don't want to go down the Rookie Head Coach again though . . . I think we've all seen enough of that to last us several years.
Without looking it up I'd guess over the past 20 years Superbowl winning coaches are split 50/50 in terms of first jobs as HC vs guys with previous HC experience.
That being said, I'd hope this new owner would do a better job of choosing the Pres,GM and Coach than Lerner, so I think you have to let the past go on that one.
But you make a good point, the guys we've hired have not been good at all and in my opinion Mangini was our best coach since 99.
But you make a good point, the guys we've hired have not been good at all and in my opinion Mangini was our best coach since 99.
I'd agree with that statement.
I also like the mold of that style coach. Hell..I'd bring Mangini back if he'd take the job.
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But you make a good point, the guys we've hired have not been good at all and in my opinion Mangini was our best coach since 99.
I'd agree with that statement.
I also like the mold of that style coach. Hell..I'd bring Mangini back if he'd take the job.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
Guys,
relax. There is no chance that Shurmur is going to keep his job...The kings are dead, Long live Mr. Haslam!
Agreed, Shurmur is gone, but just not yet I'm afraid. I think Jimmy Haslem was reacting as a fan would and that's all. He couldn't have been all that surprised at how gutless Shurmur is. He must have been watching since August, right?
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
Guys,
relax. There is no chance that Shurmur is going to keep his job. However, Haslam isn't going to let the rumor mill fire up before he even sets up shop. The 2012 season amounts to players finally being motivaed at the fear of being cut. That's all that matters at this point. We're not going to the playoffs and we're not going ot win the SB. I think we WILL beat some decent teams and continue to see development from a few surprising places.
New owner, new coach, new philosophy, new energy. IS Haslam going to be THE guy? Doens't matter, he IS the NEW guy and he can't possibly do worse than the Lerners. Plain and simple, those guys let us down.
The kings are dead, Long live Mr. Haslam!
Good points Tom. Haslam and Banner may decide to ride out the season with Shur-loss, and let the team really stink up the joint. It might put us in the position the Rams were in this past April. Another team might be willing to give up a boatload of picks to take the next super-stud qb in the upcoming draft.
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The 2012 NFL season is far from over, but it's never too early to look ahead. There figures to be several head-coaching vacancies following the season, so let's get a jump on examining some potential candidates for those jobs. I've come up with a list of seven names that will likely garner serious consideration for any head-coaching opportunities that arise following the season. I've also included brief comments from sources inside the NFL about each of the seven candidates.
Chip Kelly
Age: 48
Current job: Head coach, University of Oregon
Kelly has only been a head coach for four seasons at the collegiate level, but he has already established a sterling résumé. He has captured three Pac-10/Pac-12 titles and his team is currently undefeated and ranked No. 2 in the nation. He turned down the Tampa Bay Buccaneers job last offseason, but will likely have another NFL opportunity in 2013. His up-tempo offense would need some alterations to work at the NFL level, but his organizational skills and creativity will be very attractive to NFL owners.
NFC executive: "He runs the best practices I've ever seen. I would hire him in a second if I ever had the opportunity."
Kyle Shanahan
Age: 32
Current job: Offensive coordinator, Washington Redskins
The Redskins' offense has been the talk of the 2012 NFL season. Robert Griffin III has been outstanding, but the design of the Redskins' scheme has been terrific, as well. Kyle Shanahan is getting a lot of praise around the NFL for quickly developing RG3 and designing a creative offense to fit his skills. Shanahan also was very successful during his two-year stint as the Houston Texans' offensive coordinator. In 2009, the Texans finished with the NFL's fourth-ranked offense under his leadership. Despite being only 32 years old, the son of Mike Shanahan already has coached in the NFL for nine seasons.
AFC executive: "Kyle is extremely smart and he's excellent with quarterbacks. He has all of his dad's qualities and he's going to be a great head coach."
Mike McCoy
Age: 40
Current job: Offensive coordinator, Denver Broncos
McCoy has 13 years of NFL coaching experience, including the past four as the Broncos offensive coordinator. Last season, his reputation around the NFL soared as a result of his handling of the transition from Kyle Orton to Tim Tebow. He completely overhauled his scheme in the middle of the season to accommodate Tebow's specific skill set. The Broncos finished the season with the NFL's No. 1 rushing attack. This season, he has smoothly transitioned his offense to suit Peyton Manning. They are currently ranked fourth in passing. Those rankings highlight McCoy's flexibility and willingness to adapt his scheme to his personnel.
NFC personnel executive: "I don't know Mike personally, but I've taken notice of the job he's done in Denver. He deserves a lot of credit for their success in 2011."
(Evan Pinkus/Associated Press)
Perry Fewell
Age: 50
Current job: Defensive coordinator, New York Giants
Fewell has done an outstanding job with the Giants. Their run to the Super Bowl last season was largely the result of his punishing defensive unit. He has overcome several injuries to key personnel and his reputation around the league is rock solid. He has interviewed for head-coaching jobs in the past, but those teams chose to go in a different direction. Many around the NFL believe he will not be passed over again.
AFC personnel executive: "I've never heard anything negative about him. His results speak for themselves and he deserves a head-coaching opportunity."
Brad Seely
Age: 56
Current job: Special teams coordinator, San Francisco 49ers
Seely has an excellent résumé and should garner consideration for any head-coaching vacancies following the season. He has coached in the NFL for 22 seasons, 10 of which were spent as the special teams coach under Bill Belichick in New England. He has transformed the 49ers' special teams unit into the NFL's very best. The fact that Baltimore's John Harbaugh has successfully made the transition from special teams coach to head coach should help Seely's candidacy.
Former player: "Brad was very well respected in our locker room. He is very detailed and he knows how to communicate."
Ray Horton
Age: 52
Current job: Defensive coordinator, Arizona Cardinals
Horton has quickly established a strong reputation as one of the NFL's top defensive minds. Following a 10-year playing career, he's been a successful assistant coach for 18 years. He served as the secondary coach for the Steelers prior to joining the Cardinals staff as defensive coordinator. The Cardinals have one of the NFL's top defensive units and Horton's scheme is broadly praised around the league.
NFC personnel executive: "He's going to be impressive during the interview process. He's very smart and confident and he has the ability to relate to everyone."
Bill O'Brien
Age: 43
Current job: Head coach, Penn State
It is highly unlikely that O'Brien would depart Penn State after only one season on the job. He has an incredibly expensive buyout clause in his contract and that would be a major deterrent to potential NFL suitors. That being said, he is a very hot name around NFL circles. He was a successful assistant under Bill Belichick and he has shown incredible leadership in guiding the Penn State program through an extraordinarily difficult situation.
Former AFC personnel executive: "Knowing Bill, he has too much integrity to leave those kids, but he's eventually going to be a very successful NFL head coach. He's very tough and organized and he's a winner."
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I vote Chip Kelly, and let him build a scheme around the spread and speed. The offense has the athletes in Richardson, Benjamin, Cameron, Little, and Gordon. A misconception that people have about Kelly's offense is that he needs a running QB; look at Darron Thomas, he had average speed at best (I believe mid 4.8), but they ran plays that tailored to the athletes around him. Weeden, also, definitely looks more comfortable when the offense is spread out and sped up. And we wouldn't have to worry about him not attempting a 4th and 1 or a 4th and 2.
Whoever Haslam picks, it has to be a no nonsense guy who has the players respect. I doubt this team cares about Shurmur.
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Its funny... a lot of these coaches are great once they get great players.
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Dennison played linebacker for the Broncos in the 80's and joined the Broncos coaching staff in the mid 90's.
He moved his way up from offensive assistant,special teams,offensive line to finally coordinator.
Dennison worked under zone blocking guru Alex Gibbs.
The Denver and Houston offenses that rely heavily on zone blocking are renown for their ability to utilize a particular style of running back with great success regardless of their "stock"(e.g,Terrel Davis 6th round,Arian Foster undrafted).
The zone blocking scheme relies on athletic technicians rather than powerful maulers, it is particularly effective against blitzing 3-4 defense.
The Texans moved from 30th ranked rushing in 2009 under Kyle Shannahan as OC to 7th in 2010 under Dennison in his first season as Texans OC.
The 2011 Texans ranked 2nd in total rushing yards and the 2012 Texans are currently 6-1 ranking 1 in attempts 6 in total rushing yards and 1 in rushing touchdowns.
I think the Browns are built perfectly to bring in Dennison as HC and current Texans OL coach John Benton.
We have three solid lineman and two running backs who would flourish in a zone blocking system.
Despite how the league has become so catered to quarterbacks and the passing game it's only a matter of time before running the ball and defense wins another championship.
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I think Shurmur's station in life is as an offensive assistant. Holmgren should have recognized this.
We are a young, talented team that is not getting good coaching from the top.
Not only was the 4 & 1 decision atrocious, but how about the end of the first half: The refs gave Reggie Wayne and the Colts an amazing spot ... giving them a fourth and one instead of a fourth and three and an obvious punt. Shurmur needed to challenge that spot, there was undisputable video evidence that the ball was not spotted right. Instead, he does nothing. The Colts come out and on 4 & 1 deep in their own territory, pretend to go for it ... and the poorly coached Browns jump offsides. Just a very frustrating sequence of bad coaching ... that stuff doesn't happen to losing teams.
Truck Stop Jimmy looks like a guy that commands respect and he is going to want his team to command respect too. Shurmur is no leader. He will fire his ass at the Bye week if we lose the next two ... you can count on it.
That was a football game that needed to be won. Shurmur didn't have the balls to win it.
Outcoached by Bruce Arians.
Zombo
Zombo said:
I think Shurmur's station in life is as an offensive assistant. Holmgren should have recognized this.
We are a young, talented team that is not getting good coaching from the top.
Not only was the 4 & 1 decision atrocious, but how about the end of the first half: The refs gave Reggie Wayne and the Colts an amazing spot ... giving them a fourth and one instead of a fourth and three and an obvious punt. Shurmur needed to challenge that spot, there was undisputable video evidence that the ball was not spotted right. Instead, he does nothing. The Colts come out and on 4 & 1 deep in their own territory, pretend to go for it ... and the poorly coached Browns jump offsides. Just a very frustrating sequence of bad coaching ... that stuff doesn't happen to losing teams.
Truck Stop Jimmy looks like a guy that commands respect and he is going to want his team to command respect too. Shurmur is no leader. He will fire his ass at the Bye week if we lose the next two ... you can count on it.
That was a football game that needed to be won. Shurmur didn't have the balls to win it.
Outcoached by Bruce Arians.
Zombo
I was wondering if anybody else thought that was wayyyy short,I thought the same exact thing about the spot and no challenge. Just another instance where pattycakes showed he has no nuts.
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We were talking about that. Someone said that you can't challenge a spot unless the result was a first down. Anybody know whether that is true?
I'm pretty sure you challenge the spot of the ball anytime.
Even with the most generous forward progress spot ever, he was more than a couple yards short.
Zombo
Zombo said:
I'm pretty sure you challenge the spot of the ball anytime.
Even with the most generous forward progress spot ever, he was more than a couple yards short.
Zombo
You can only challenge the spot of the ball if it has an effect on a first down. So no, Shurmur could not challenge this play even though it was damned obvious the refs gave an amazing spot to the colts. A rule that clearly needs to be changed.
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