Pat Shurmur On Fourth-And-1 Punt: “I Think It Worked Out”
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Devils Advocate Hat On Here.
In the memory banks of my head, over the last few decades, I believe that Shurmur is probably not the only team to punt on 4 and 1 with over 6 mins left in the game trailing by less than a touchdown. I'm not sure why this call is garnering so much attention as it is. If he would have went for it, and blew it (which probably would have happened), then we would be calling for his head anyways. We are so quick to forget that a TD pass was dropped in the end zone that would have won the game or put us very close to winning. Why do we also forget about the 3 holding calls on special teams by the same Jack-Ass of a player. Look, at some point in time you have to put some weight on the players. Shurmur can't go out there and catch the ball for Gordon and hand it to him in the end zone. Shurmur can't go out there and slap the hands of Ventrone just before he get's called for holding. We got the ball back, and we had a TD, but Gordon BLEW it. Not Shurmur.
NOW, I am not a fan of Shurmur, and I think his coffin was sealed when Haslam was voted in. I think his play calling and his overall coaching mentality blows. BUT, not everything has to fall on the hands of the Shurmur. Yes, he is ultimately culpable for the mess in Cleveland... but really. Getting all bent out of shape for punting on 4 and 1 with over 6 mins left in the game. He put the game in the hands of the defense to get the ball back.. and they did. Shurmur called a TD play. But guess what, Gordon dropped the ball... and oh, the sun had nothing to do with it.
Yes, how he got to making the decision blows, but let's just remember, we had a TD in the hands of Gordon.
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Devils Advocate Hat On Here.
In the memory banks of my head, over the last few decades, I believe that Shurmur is probably not the only team to punt on 4 and 1 with over 6 mins left in the game trailing by less than a touchdown. I'm not sure why this call is garnering so much attention as it is. If he would have went for it, and blew it (which probably would have happened), then we would be calling for his head anyways. We are so quick to forget that a TD pass was dropped in the end zone that would have won the game or put us very close to winning. Why do we also forget about the 3 holding calls on special teams by the same Jack-Ass of a player. Look, at some point in time you have to put some weight on the players. Shurmur can't go out there and catch the ball for Gordon and hand it to him in the end zone. Shurmur can't go out there and slap the hands of Ventrone just before he get's called for holding. We got the ball back, and we had a TD, but Gordon BLEW it. Not Shurmur.
NOW, I am not a fan of Shurmur, and I think his coffin was sealed when Haslam was voted in. I think his play calling and his overall coaching mentality blows. BUT, not everything has to fall on the hands of the Shurmur. Yes, he is ultimately culpable for the mess in Cleveland... but really. Getting all bent out of shape for punting on 4 and 1 with over 6 mins left in the game. He put the game in the hands of the defense to get the ball back.. and they did. Shurmur called a TD play. But guess what, Gordon dropped the ball... and oh, the sun had nothing to do with it.
Yes, how he got to making the decision blows, but let's just remember, we had a TD in the hands of Gordon.
Devils Advocate Hat On Here.
In the memory banks of my head, over the last few decades, I believe that Shurmur is probably not the only team to punt on 4 and 1 with over 6 mins left in the game trailing by less than a touchdown. I'm not sure why this call is garnering so much attention as it is. If he would have went for it, and blew it (which probably would have happened), then we would be calling for his head anyways.
The point you're missing is the point made earlier in this thread. Our Defense was unable to get off the field almost the entire game/season. Teams that punt in that situation 1) Trust their punter and ST unit to pin it inside the 20, 2) Trust their defense to play tough and get the ball back quickly, and 3) Are the more talented team, usually with a winning record, and are able to play conservative b/c they are more likely to take advantage of the situation.
Do we fit any of those criteria?? Not really. When you're 1-5, you take risks b/c it's your only chance of making something out of your season. It seems the Browns always hire coaches with the philosophy "We play not to lose." We need a guy who "PLAYS TO WIN"
The timeout decision makes it apparent that Shurmur is still overwhelmed as a HC and playcaller. He had to make two quick decisions in seconds, and was obviously unable to do so. Not the guy I want running this team anymore...
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Typical Patty. What I didn't understand was that we were third and one and we passed it, like always. We had two downs to get one yard (in theory using 4th down if we had to). You'd think we'd run it twice to get the one yard (god-willing), but be it that Patty is running the show the sensical becomes obscure. This happened several times during the game. Third and 2. Second and 4. And we throw the ball each time until we get to fourth down and haven't made a yard. He needs to understand that you get a first down when its basically handed to you, end of story.
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The only thing wrong with the coaching was that we burned a timeouut.
The coach had confidence that the defense would create a 3-and-out and we'd get the ball back with a fresh set of downs. Whether you like it or not, any coach in that position (score, field position and clock)that has confidence in his D would make the same decision.
Other than the wasted timeout, my only issue is how did Shurmer get the balls to rely on his D? Even though it worked out, that part mystifies me.
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The only thing wrong with the coaching was that we burned a timeouut.
The coach had confidence that the defense would create a 3-and-out and we'd get the ball back with a fresh set of downs. Whether you like it or not, any coach in that position (score, field position and clock)that has confidence in his D would make the same decision.
Other than the wasted timeout, my only issue is how did Shurmer get the balls to rely on his D? Even though it worked out, that part mystifies me.
The only thing wrong with the coaching was that we burned a timeouut.
The coach had confidence that the defense would create a 3-and-out and we'd get the ball back with a fresh set of downs. Whether you like it or not, any coach in that position (score, field position and clock)that has confidence in his D would make the same decision.
Other than the wasted timeout, my only issue is how did Shurmer get the balls to rely on his D? Even though it worked out, that part mystifies me.
Because he's an offensive coach and doesn't watch the defense getting steamrolled up and down the field. That's how he has confidence in the defense. The wasted timeout to me is the big issue here as well. He has to know what he's going to do before it happens. Doesn't that effect the 3rd down playcall? To me if you're not going for it on 4th down, you run it on 3rd down. If you are thinking of going for it on 4th, a play action pass from a run formation would be the call on 3rd down to see if you can catch the defense not ready for it.
Also if he doesn't waste a time out, we have a better chance of getting the ball back with more time on the clock.
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Shurmur: "I'll be gutless the next time, too."
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I give up on him even before this last crap.
I'm really liking Canton Mike's idea to hire Jon Gruden as HC.
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Shurmur: "I'll be gutless the next time, too."
*******************************************
I give up on him even before this last crap.
I'm really liking Canton Mike's idea to hire Jon Gruden as HC.
Shurmur: "I'll be gutless the next time, too."
*******************************************
I give up on him even before this last crap.
I'm really liking Canton Mike's idea to hire Jon Gruden as HC.
Jon Gruden is a terrible idea. The guy has already had success in the NFL..who does he have to prove himself to at this point?
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Shurmur: "I'll be gutless the next time, too."
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I give up on him even before this last crap.
I'm really liking Canton Mike's idea to hire Jon Gruden as HC.
Jon Gruden is a terrible idea. The guy has already had success in the NFL..who does he have to prove himself to at this point?
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I like aggressive football. Obviously, the 4th & 1 punt was NOT aggressive. What bothers me even more than that crappy call is that Shurmur seems unable to say, "I made a mistake". He has no problem placing blame on his players, but he has NOT had their back & he doesn't have enough faith in them to go for a damn yard! Who COACHES these players you can't trust, Pat?
"Worked out" my ass!
Mike
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Pat Shurmur on fourth-and-1 punt: “I think it worked out”
Posted by Michael David Smith on October 23, 2012, 7:20 AM EDT
Browns coach Pat Shurmur made the most baffling decision of the week in the NFL when he punted on fourth-and-1 from the Colts’ 41-yard line while trailing 17-13 with 6:38 left in the fourth quarter on Sunday. At least, it was baffling to most people watching. According to Shurmur, it was the right call.
Shurmur said on Monday that he thinks punting in that situation is the correct strategy, and he’ll do the same thing if the Browns face the same situation again this season.
“I’d do that again,” Shurmur said. “I think it worked out. I had two timeouts after we decided to punt the football. We kicked it to them and it was better than six minutes left. At the end of the day, we had a first down with over three minutes left on the other side of the field. [it was] basically in the same spot we punted from, give or take a yard, with a chance to win the game and we didn’t.”
Um, coach? Your decision didn’t “work out” just because you eventually got the ball back “basically in the same spot.” Your decision only would have worked out if you had gotten the ball back and scored a touchdown. And you didn’t do that. By the time you had the ball “basically in the same spot,” the Colts had been able to take two and a half more minutes off the clock, and you ended up having to go for it on a fourth-and-6, and your team failed to convert. In what circumstance can you say “it worked out” if you end up in a situation where you have to go for it on fourth-and-6, two and a half minutes after you didn’t think your team could convert a fourth-and-1?
The CBS broadcast of the Browns-Colts game showed new Browns owner Jimmy Haslam in his box wearing a look of disgust at the Browns’ fourth-and-1 punt, but Shurmur said he doesn’t know anything about that.
“No, I haven’t talked to him about that,” Shurmur said. “I haven’t watched the TV copy, so at this point it wouldn’t be right for me to comment on it.”
Haslam has already promised not to comment on the coaching situation until the end of the season. But if Haslam ends up firing Shurmur, decisions like this fourth-and-1 punt will be a big part of the reason.
http://profootballta...-it-worked-out/
Pat Shurmur on fourth-and-1 punt: "I think it worked out"
Posted by Michael David Smith on October 23, 2012, 7:20 AM EDT
"I'd do that again," Shurmur said. "I think it worked out. I had two timeouts after we decided to punt the football. We kicked it to them and it was better than six minutes left. At the end of the day, we had a first down with over three minutes left on the other side of the field. [it was] basically in the same spot we punted from, give or take a yard, with a chance to win the game and we didn't."
Yes pat we know you would do it again and that is exactly why you must go..
We generally know your playcalls in advance and so does the opposing defenses, when you are 1-5 you have nothing to lose so you dont play keep it close you go for the juggler on 4th down and let your players win or lose the game..
As fans we have watched pat shurmur take the momentum out of promising drives with his overly conservative, often irrational and predictable playcalling...
The truth is our 1-5 record doesnt fall completely on shurmurs shoulders alone as this young team has had growing pains but shurmurs over conservative. predictable and gutless playcalling nevertheless has failed to keep this teams offense in the best possible position to capitalize on many drives game in and game out..
Haslam would be wise to at minimal request childress to take over the playcalling responsibilities for the rest of the season or even better fire shurmur at the bye week..
Its kind of hard to take haslam at face value when he is approaching things exactly like randy lerner did, imho chopping off heads now is the right thing to do under the existing circumstances as this season is already lost under pat shurmur and we will keep losing games from poor playcalling and bad decisions on the field and i say this as a fan that doesnt dislike pat shurmur the man i say this as a fan that does not like pat shurmurs playcalling patterns or decision making process..
In every game there is generally a time to be both ultra aggressive and ultra conservative and everything in between pat shurmur is way to conservative and yet somehow manages to consistently mismanage not only the playcalling but also the clock..
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I rarely take shots at coaches, especially of another team other than the Redskins and decision making because I know its a lot harder then it looks and they are professionals, but, Shurmer is the reason you guys are 1-6. I have never seen such gutless and scared coaching in my life. The first game in Philly you guys didnt go for 2 in the 4th quarter, it makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. But this 4th and 1 play in Indy thispast Sunday is just plain gutless. Shurmer doesnt play or coach to win, he plays/coaches to not get blown out or to lose by "just a little." I think hes doing it so he thinks it will help him get a coordinator job after his tenure with the Browns is over. The sad part is hes hurting all the fans and the players by doing crap like that. How do you not go for it on 4th and 1 in their side of the field? Skins went for it twice on 4th down, once with 4:30 left (4th and 10 on their own 25) and once with 2:00 left (4th and 1 at the Giants 35. The first 4th and 10 is probably a dumb decision, but luckily RG3 scrambled and made a heck of a play. I just wouldnt have went for it then. The second 4th down, Id go for it 7 days a week and twice on sunday. If you guys had any other coach right now, I bet you all would be at LEAST 3-4, maybe even 4-3. Shurmer is making Weeden throw 50 times a game and not running the ball correctly, he benched Trich in the 1st quarter?! I mean give me a break! He single-handly ruined the Browns season this year. Your team is not a bad team, if anything, its a pretty decent young group. Its just that when coaching is that bad, there is nothing you can do except sit there and cringe.
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I rarely take shots at coaches, especially of another team other than the Redskins and decision making because I know its a lot harder then it looks and they are professionals, but, Shurmer is the reason you guys are 1-6. I have never seen such gutless and scared coaching in my life. The first game in Philly you guys didnt go for 2 in the 4th quarter, it makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. But this 4th and 1 play in Indy thispast Sunday is just plain gutless. Shurmer doesnt play or coach to win, he plays/coaches to not get blown out or to lose by "just a little." I think hes doing it so he thinks it will help him get a coordinator job after his tenure with the Browns is over. The sad part is hes hurting all the fans and the players by doing crap like that. How do you not go for it on 4th and 1 in their side of the field? Skins went for it twice on 4th down, once with 4:30 left (4th and 10 on their own 25) and once with 2:00 left (4th and 1 at the Giants 35. The first 4th and 10 is probably a dumb decision, but luckily RG3 scrambled and made a heck of a play. I just wouldnt have went for it then. The second 4th down, Id go for it 7 days a week and twice on sunday. If you guys had any other coach right now, I bet you all would be at LEAST 3-4, maybe even 4-3. Shurmer is making Weeden throw 50 times a game and not running the ball correctly, he benched Trich in the 1st quarter?! I mean give me a break! He single-handly ruined the Browns season this year. Your team is not a bad team, if anything, its a pretty decent young group. Its just that when coaching is that bad, there is nothing you can do except sit there and cringe.
I rarely take shots at coaches, especially of another team other than the Redskins and decision making because I know its a lot harder then it looks and they are professionals, but, Shurmer is the reason you guys are 1-6. I have never seen such gutless and scared coaching in my life. The first game in Philly you guys didnt go for 2 in the 4th quarter, it makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. But this 4th and 1 play in Indy thispast Sunday is just plain gutless. Shurmer doesnt play or coach to win, he plays/coaches to not get blown out or to lose by "just a little." I think hes doing it so he thinks it will help him get a coordinator job after his tenure with the Browns is over. The sad part is hes hurting all the fans and the players by doing crap like that. How do you not go for it on 4th and 1 in their side of the field? Skins went for it twice on 4th down, once with 4:30 left (4th and 10 on their own 25) and once with 2:00 left (4th and 1 at the Giants 35. The first 4th and 10 is probably a dumb decision, but luckily RG3 scrambled and made a heck of a play. I just wouldnt have went for it then. The second 4th down, Id go for it 7 days a week and twice on sunday. If you guys had any other coach right now, I bet you all would be at LEAST 3-4, maybe even 4-3. Shurmer is making Weeden throw 50 times a game and not running the ball correctly, he benched Trich in the 1st quarter?! I mean give me a break! He single-handly ruined the Browns season this year. Your team is not a bad team, if anything, its a pretty decent young group. Its just that when coaching is that bad, there is nothing you can do except sit there and cringe.
I agree completely.
Hopefully we have an interim coach on the sidelines when we kick your team's ass.
Zombo
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I rarely take shots at coaches, especially of another team other than the Redskins and decision making because I know its a lot harder then it looks and they are professionals, but, Shurmer is the reason you guys are 1-6. I have never seen such gutless and scared coaching in my life. The first game in Philly you guys didnt go for 2 in the 4th quarter, it makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. But this 4th and 1 play in Indy thispast Sunday is just plain gutless. Shurmer doesnt play or coach to win, he plays/coaches to not get blown out or to lose by "just a little." I think hes doing it so he thinks it will help him get a coordinator job after his tenure with the Browns is over. The sad part is hes hurting all the fans and the players by doing crap like that. How do you not go for it on 4th and 1 in their side of the field? Skins went for it twice on 4th down, once with 4:30 left (4th and 10 on their own 25) and once with 2:00 left (4th and 1 at the Giants 35. The first 4th and 10 is probably a dumb decision, but luckily RG3 scrambled and made a heck of a play. I just wouldnt have went for it then. The second 4th down, Id go for it 7 days a week and twice on sunday. If you guys had any other coach right now, I bet you all would be at LEAST 3-4, maybe even 4-3. Shurmer is making Weeden throw 50 times a game and not running the ball correctly, he benched Trich in the 1st quarter?! I mean give me a break! He single-handly ruined the Browns season this year. Your team is not a bad team, if anything, its a pretty decent young group. Its just that when coaching is that bad, there is nothing you can do except sit there and cringe.
I rarely take shots at coaches, especially of another team other than the Redskins and decision making because I know its a lot harder then it looks and they are professionals, but, Shurmer is the reason you guys are 1-6. I have never seen such gutless and scared coaching in my life. The first game in Philly you guys didnt go for 2 in the 4th quarter, it makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. But this 4th and 1 play in Indy thispast Sunday is just plain gutless. Shurmer doesnt play or coach to win, he plays/coaches to not get blown out or to lose by "just a little." I think hes doing it so he thinks it will help him get a coordinator job after his tenure with the Browns is over. The sad part is hes hurting all the fans and the players by doing crap like that. How do you not go for it on 4th and 1 in their side of the field? Skins went for it twice on 4th down, once with 4:30 left (4th and 10 on their own 25) and once with 2:00 left (4th and 1 at the Giants 35. The first 4th and 10 is probably a dumb decision, but luckily RG3 scrambled and made a heck of a play. I just wouldnt have went for it then. The second 4th down, Id go for it 7 days a week and twice on sunday. If you guys had any other coach right now, I bet you all would be at LEAST 3-4, maybe even 4-3. Shurmer is making Weeden throw 50 times a game and not running the ball correctly, he benched Trich in the 1st quarter?! I mean give me a break! He single-handly ruined the Browns season this year. Your team is not a bad team, if anything, its a pretty decent young group. Its just that when coaching is that bad, there is nothing you can do except sit there and cringe.
T Rich is hurt and played like garbage. Sitting him was the right move.
Not going for it on 4th down was debatable, but not the nail in the coffin. We got the ball back, we failed to convert.
Blowing the time out was stupid, but I also heard that was on Weeden. That's a miscommunication between player and coach.
Either way, Patsy has proven he is not head coach material thus far. He's too timid and gutless.
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The truth is that you didn't even pin the Colts in their ten, because the punt went about 20 yards.
The worst part of the game to me, wasn't even the punt. It was the playcalls on 2nd and 3rd down. Two shots to the end zone when you need to put a drive together with over 6 minutes to go? wtf
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The truth is that you didn't even pin the Colts in their ten, because the punt went about 20 yards.
The worst part of the game to me, wasn't even the punt. It was the playcalls on 2nd and 3rd down. Two shots to the end zone when you need to put a drive together with over 6 minutes to go? wtf
The truth is that you didn't even pin the Colts in their ten, because the punt went about 20 yards.
The worst part of the game to me, wasn't even the punt. It was the playcalls on 2nd and 3rd down. Two shots to the end zone when you need to put a drive together with over 6 minutes to go? wtf
I agree with taking the endzone shots, and by taking those shots and missing, your ass better go for on 4 and 1.
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Shurmur is giving Crennel a run for his money as worst coach ever.
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