I am tired of it
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Other teams turn things around overnight, and we are always told to wait for things to develop.
Screw that....players get 1 year, coaches 2....if you don't get it done in that time frame, hit the friggen road.
I am tired of excuse. If other rookies players and coaches can go to playoff games, i am not going to put up with less. No damn time for that.
Win or leave town
Seriously.
Other teams turn things around overnight, and we are always told to wait for things to develop.
Screw that....players get 1 year, coaches 2....if you don't get it done in that time frame, hit the friggen road.
I am tired of excuse. If other rookies players and coaches can go to playoff games, i am not going to put up with less. No damn time for that.
Win or leave town
Seriously.
Randy does need to put a shorter leash on the team and the FO..however cinderella teams are built overnight (miami)while rock solid teams are built over time by having a proven successful system and formulation in place..and in my opinion 2 years is ample time to determine if that system is actually beginning to develop even though it may not be complete in 2 years but i agree if the chemistry isnt looking good at 2 years randy needs to wipe the slate and start again..
My opinion of mangini is he was turning the jets around then brett farve entered the fray..mangini screwed up by not benching him lets hope he learned something about that...
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I understand that.....my desire is to win superbowls and have all-pro players....and know in reality that won't happen in 1 or 2 years...but in 1 or 2 years you can have a pretty good idea.
I am just tired of dicking around with players and coaches for 4-5 years when you can tell after a year or two it is never going to happen.
We may make a mistake or two along the way and let a guy who does develop go, but that number is going to be a small percentage compared to the number of bums we let go.
We waste too much time trying to get people to catch and block...if they can't pick it up in a year, move on to the next guy.
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We didn't win a championship, so we sucked.
Anything less than a Super Bowl win is a failed season.
There is no debating that point.
We didn't win a championship, so we sucked.
Anything less than a Super Bowl win is a failed season.
There is no debating that point.
Sorry but that is an expectation that can not be met. No team can win back to back championships every year, that does not mean you suck. How long has it been since the Colts won a Super Bowl, would you say they sucked each and every year they didnt? Only one team can win the big one, and I cant wait for that day in Cleveland, but I also cant wait till we can start competing and going to the playoffs and then winnning some playoff games, those are winning seasons at this point. none of these teams that have turned around in one year as you say are going to win the Super Bowl, so are you then going to say they suck?
Miami turned it around, did they suck this year? Teams that turn it around that quickly usually go to the playoffs the first year, then lose, then the playoffs the next year and win one or two, then if they are still going, they might get to the Super Bowl and might win.
I know this is a common motivating phrase, if we dont win the Super Bowl, its a losing season, and quite frankly thats the biggest bunch of BS there is, anyone on this board or on the team would be ecstatic just to see the Browns in the second round of the playoffs or in the Super Bowl.
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I didn't say anything about not being happy, or knowing it takes steps, but again...
Anything less than a Super bowl win is a failed season.
Unless of course winning the super bowl isn't the goal you seek to achieve, and if it isn't, we need to make immediate changes.
Sorry...that is just the way it is.
We won our last championship in 64. Having met some of the posters on this board, there are only a few who actually remember doing that in a way that counts....like being old enough to read a sports section or older.
As sad as it is, our culture of losing is far greater than the culture of winning the organization likes to put front and forward....what is that...44 years...this next season will be 45 if we fail again.
Exactly how many seasons does it take to build a team that wins something??
I am not bashing the team. I have season tickets and live 600 miles out of town. I go to games, I watch games, I post on Browns message boards way to much, but I am not going to stick my head in the sand and hide from the facts. All those old success stories don't feel good to me anymore.
We need to win something.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
I didn't say anything about not being happy, or knowing it takes steps, but again...
Anything less than a Super bowl win is a failed season.
Unless of course winning the super bowl isn't the goal you seek to achieve, and if it isn't, we need to make immediate changes.
Sorry...that is just the way it is.
We won our last championship in 64. Having met some of the posters on this board, there are only a few who actually remember doing that in a way that counts....like being old enough to read a sports section or older.
As sad as it is, our culture of losing is far greater than the culture of winning the organization likes to put front and forward....what is that...44 years...this next season will be 45 if we fail again.
Exactly how many seasons does it take to build a team that wins something??
I am not bashing the team. I have season tickets and live 600 miles out of town. I go to games, I watch games, I post on Browns message boards way to much, but I am not going to stick my head in the sand and hide from the facts. All those old success stories don't feel good to me anymore.
We need to win something.
I didn't say anything about not being happy, or knowing it takes steps, but again...
Anything less than a Super bowl win is a failed season.
Unless of course winning the super bowl isn't the goal you seek to achieve, and if it isn't, we need to make immediate changes.
Sorry...that is just the way it is.
We won our last championship in 64. Having met some of the posters on this board, there are only a few who actually remember doing that in a way that counts....like being old enough to read a sports section or older.
As sad as it is, our culture of losing is far greater than the culture of winning the organization likes to put front and forward....what is that...44 years...this next season will be 45 if we fail again.
Exactly how many seasons does it take to build a team that wins something??
I am not bashing the team. I have season tickets and live 600 miles out of town. I go to games, I watch games, I post on Browns message boards way to much, but I am not going to stick my head in the sand and hide from the facts. All those old success stories don't feel good to me anymore.
We need to win something.
By far Your best post and I totally agree...quit the pussy footing and get away from the conservative game plans and the prevent defense we might do something. until we can run the ball and stop the run were not going anywhere....Im tired of conservative keep it close to the vest football...
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Watching the Cards win last night gives me hope,yes they play in shitty division but next week their going to a championship game
Give them credit they shit canned big name Green for Ken Whoseefrigg
They stuck with draft choices who showed promise and the ones who didn't they said "here hold this clipboard"
And most importantly they had Balls enough to sign a proven veteran QB and actually gave him a fair shot to beat out the "franchise" QB
Now I know Lienart sucks but admitting it is half the battle,and that's all Peens trying to say admit when you've xxxed up and move on.
Don't drag the boat anchor around for four years,William Green,Gerrard Warren,Tim Couch,(feel free to stop me at anytime)Courtney Brown,Cameron Wimbley.
I don't know if Quinn fits that group or not but we need to manup here get a legit backup QB and then be prepared to use him, in week three not week twelve after the seasons in the shitter
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If your talking about Balt, I think many members of this board could go be their HC and win 6-8 games. The talent on that D is just sick and has been for years.
Masters said:
If your talking about Balt, I think many members of this board could go be their HC and win 6-8 games. The talent on that D is just sick and has been for years.Great point as usual Masters!
I think it's all about HOW they draft, which maintains cap health better than an overeliance on free agency. I don't BLAME injuries to Baxter, Bentley, and Andruzzi on the GM; BUT because they're FAs with enormous price tags - it clobbers your cap if they can only wear blue jeans on Sundays. Therefore, bad choices to overpay guys like Shaffer, Shaun Smith, Antwaan Peek, Ted Washington, Jason Fisk, Matt Stewart and Donte Stallworth really create a profound effect over time. I'm puzzled when I hear our cap health isn't very good when I look at a 4-12 record showing me we weren't even good enough to score an offensive TD the final 6 weeks. Not even Detroit can lay claim to such an embarassing reality.
It's WHY we need to draft MORE impact players like a Joe Thomas. A LT like that had a ginormous impact on our 2007 season. AND, adding Steinbach was one of the BEST free agent signings we had next to Shaun Rogers. We need more homeruns like Josh Cribbs anywhere from round 2 to the land of the undrafted rookie FAs. Eric Wright is another very good pick that really changed my mind in 2008. We need to draft BETTER in the trenches on both sides after round 1 IMO.
Baltimore doesn't DO safe - they say "okay, we'll take this Ray Lewis that the first 25 teams shyed away from because of his disappointing 40 times. We WATCHED his film and his 1st step instincts and level of prep makes him the quickest guy on the field." Of course that was before they added Ed Reed. And another guy that ran disappointing 40 times that slid all the way down to the Rats was T Suggs. Rumored to be blazing quick because he played that way but many of the the WRONG scouts ENABLED him to slide to the Rat's doorstep. Shame on them for doing so. If you REFUSE to review game films of players to see HOW instinctive and smart a player is - then you're not in the right business judging personnel. Balt has also done the blue collar guys in round 1 too like Ngata-now Danyason and Jon Ogden. Two words: game film.
Even when they drafted Jamal Lewis at something like #4 overall - ALOT of scouts wondered the extent of Lewis' wear and tear from 2 seasons before the draft hinting Travis Henry got more carries and played better in his final season at UT. Balt didn't do safe - they saw a 240 pound kid bench pressing 450 pounds and running 4.2s and 4.3s straight ahead with the understandign that the next season would be season #2 post injury. Translation to them? Upside. Translation to a LBer corps led by Andra Davis? "UH-OH!" Lewis got 500 of his 2000 yards in 6 quarters of football against our freaking LBers. You know what the WORST part of that is? Andra Davis was STILL starting for us 4-5 freakin years later and I don't feel like saying FREAKIN. That's atrocious personnel evaluating.
- Tom F. (Obviously, I didn't need that 4th cup of coffee today)
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Masters said:
If your talking about Balt, I think many members of this board could go be their HC and win 6-8 games. The talent on that D is just sick and has been for years.Great point as usual Masters!
I think it's all about HOW they draft, which maintains cap health better than an overeliance on free agency. I don't BLAME injuries to Baxter, Bentley, and Andruzzi on the GM; BUT because they're FAs with enormous price tags - it clobbers your cap if they can only wear blue jeans on Sundays. Therefore, bad choices to overpay guys like Shaffer, Shaun Smith, Antwaan Peek, Ted Washington, Jason Fisk, Matt Stewart and Donte Stallworth really create a profound effect over time. I'm puzzled when I hear our cap health isn't very good when I look at a 4-12 record showing me we weren't even good enough to score an offensive TD the final 6 weeks. Not even Detroit can lay claim to such an embarassing reality.
It's WHY we need to draft MORE impact players like a Joe Thomas. A LT like that had a ginormous impact on our 2007 season. AND, adding Steinbach was one of the BEST free agent signings we had next to Shaun Rogers. We need more homeruns like Josh Cribbs anywhere from round 2 to the land of the undrafted rookie FAs. Eric Wright is another very good pick that really changed my mind in 2008. We need to draft BETTER in the trenches on both sides after round 1 IMO.
Baltimore doesn't DO safe - they say "okay, we'll take this Ray Lewis that the first 25 teams shyed away from because of his disappointing 40 times. We WATCHED his film and his 1st step instincts and level of prep makes him the quickest guy on the field." Of course that was before they added Ed Reed. And another guy that ran disappointing 40 times that slid all the way down to the Rats was T Suggs. Rumored to be blazing quick because he played that way but many of the the WRONG scouts ENABLED him to slide to the Rat's doorstep. Shame on them for doing so. If you REFUSE to review game films of players to see HOW instinctive and smart a player is - then you're not in the right business judging personnel. Balt has also done the blue collar guys in round 1 too like Ngata-now Danyason and Jon Ogden. Two words: game film.
Even when they drafted Jamal Lewis at something like #4 overall - ALOT of scouts wondered the extent of Lewis' wear and tear from 2 seasons before the draft hinting Travis Henry got more carries and played better in his final season at UT. Balt didn't do safe - they saw a 240 pound kid bench pressing 450 pounds and running 4.2s and 4.3s straight ahead with the understandign that the next season would be season #2 post injury. Translation to them? Upside. Translation to a LBer corps led by Andra Davis? "UH-OH!" Lewis got 500 of his 2000 yards in 6 quarters of football against our freaking LBers. You know what the WORST part of that is? Andra Davis was STILL starting for us 4-5 freakin years later and I don't feel like saying FREAKIN. That's atrocious personnel evaluating.
- Tom F. (Obviously, I didn't need that 4th cup of coffee today)
And another guy that ran disappointing 40 times that slid all the way down to the Rats was T Suggs. Rumored to be blazing quick because he played that way but many of the the WRONG scouts ENABLED him to slide to the Rat's doorstep. Shame on them for doing so. If you REFUSE to review game films of players to see HOW instinctive and smart a player is - then you're not in the right business judging personnel.
You're right - Phil Savage was right to ignore T-Sizzle's poor 40 time (4.84) at his pro day.
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SteelerGhoolie said:
But Cleveland fans are fans of mediocrity. People here were vehement about shit like William Green, Trent Dilfer, Charlie Frye, Sewage and Crennel being SUPERSTARS. You could not get a word in edgewise but now? Now these same fans are mad?You know Ghoolie...I don't get on your case(this is the first time either one of us have talked to each other) because in many instances, I agree in part with what you say, the part I have quoted included.
I am not one of these fans who just places other fans in the shit can because they root for another team. I like other fans perspective because as fans we ALL....YOU INCLUDED....sometimes have a hard time being objective about the team for which we root and offer some legit comments about other teams....but...
All the other stuff you posted was crap and smack talk.
You have no clue what I said or felt about the players you mentioned, so if you are going to talk to me, do so in a reasonable way or just ignore my posts...I am not here to talk crap with you.
I think you are a pretty smart guy, but possibly a little insecure as you do tend to look for ways to agitate.
Part of the message board culture I suppose, but a part I choose not to engage.
So, you take it from there.
Good luck today...as I will be pulling for the Steelers...all the way now since the Titans are out...I am not anxious to see the Steelers lose so I can laugh at some guy on a message board.
You know Ghoolie...I don't get on your case(this is the first time either one of us have talked to each other) because in many instances, I agree in part with what you say, the part I have quoted included.
I am not one of these fans who just places other fans in the shit can because they root for another team. I like other fans perspective because as fans we ALL....YOU INCLUDED....sometimes have a hard time being objective about the team for which we root and offer some legit comments about other teams....but...
All the other stuff you posted was crap and smack talk.
You have no clue what I said or felt about the players you mentioned, so if you are going to talk to me, do so in a reasonable way or just ignore my posts...I am not here to talk crap with you.
I think you are a pretty smart guy, but possibly a little insecure as you do tend to look for ways to agitate.
Part of the message board culture I suppose, but a part I choose not to engage.
So, you take it from there.
Good luck today...as I will be pulling for the Steelers...all the way now since the Titans are out...I am not anxious to see the Steelers lose so I can laugh at some guy on a message board.
Ball Peen, you make good points. If you knew me you would realize I'm not insecure and I certainly am not a hateful guy. It's simply Lombardi mentality. SOme people just can't take it, usually they are democrats, you know, people without moral conviction or substance.
Nobody has ever said ANYTHING on a message board that has made me walk away being insulted, offended, mad or any other such thing. I just don't get that shit at all. Boo Hoo, someone marginalized me on a message board. Boo Hoo I AM SOMEBODY and I WILL NOT BE TALKED TO LIEK THAT. C mon man, this is football not some pussy-ass tea and crumpets show. Nobody deserves respect here and I sure as hell am not going to feel bad because some nincompoop gets offended here.
Go Steelers.
I OWULD love to see either the Steelers or Ravens in the SB again. It will drive home the nail even deeper about how bad Lerner ownership is.
Lerner needs to go.
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Fair comments.
This isn't about boo hoo'n....I save that for the important stuff like the death of a family member.
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I didn't say anything about not being happy, or knowing it takes steps, but again...
Anything less than a Super bowl win is a failed season.
Unless of course winning the super bowl isn't the goal you seek to achieve, and if it isn't, we need to make immediate changes.
Sorry...that is just the way it is.
We won our last championship in 64. Having met some of the posters on this board, there are only a few who actually remember doing that in a way that counts....like being old enough to read a sports section or older.
As sad as it is, our culture of losing is far greater than the culture of winning the organization likes to put front and forward....what is that...44 years...this next season will be 45 if we fail again.
Exactly how many seasons does it take to build a team that wins something??
I am not bashing the team. I have season tickets and live 600 miles out of town. I go to games, I watch games, I post on Browns message boards way to much, but I am not going to stick my head in the sand and hide from the facts. All those old success stories don't feel good to me anymore.
We need to win something.
I didn't say anything about not being happy, or knowing it takes steps, but again...
Anything less than a Super bowl win is a failed season.
Unless of course winning the super bowl isn't the goal you seek to achieve, and if it isn't, we need to make immediate changes.
Sorry...that is just the way it is.
We won our last championship in 64. Having met some of the posters on this board, there are only a few who actually remember doing that in a way that counts....like being old enough to read a sports section or older.
As sad as it is, our culture of losing is far greater than the culture of winning the organization likes to put front and forward....what is that...44 years...this next season will be 45 if we fail again.
Exactly how many seasons does it take to build a team that wins something??
I am not bashing the team. I have season tickets and live 600 miles out of town. I go to games, I watch games, I post on Browns message boards way to much, but I am not going to stick my head in the sand and hide from the facts. All those old success stories don't feel good to me anymore.
We need to win something.
Well your first post said, we didnt win a championship so we sucked, which is so far from the truth for alot of teams, now did we suck this year, of course, have we sucked for many years, of course, I have lived many of them and Im tired of sucking too, but honestly if we can consistently make it to the playoffs 4-6 years in a row and make the right moves to get further each year, then you cant count that down as a sucky season. Maybe failed, but not sucky...... you were talking about other teams doing it like Miami, and Atlanta and Arizona, and Arizona isnt going to win the Super Bowl this year, at least in my opinion..... You are saying they did it and at the same time if they dont win the Super Bowl you are saying they suck, so you are contradicting yourself
that was my point
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Fair enough.....but losing playoff games doesn't make me feel good. As a matter of fact, you end up feeling worse.
This way you know you are done by halftime of the second game of the season rather than think you can actually win the thing and don't.
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I think by being 'loyal' fans and still buying merchandise and selling out games we are endorsing their shittyness. I live in San Diego and hear it all the time when I criticize their fans as 'fair weather' ... But I'm starting to see the more I support a losing team, the more I'm hurting the cause.
When is enough, enough?
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@shepwrite said:
Browns fans are not fans of mediocrity. That makes no sense at all. Why would anybody be a fan of mediocrity? Do you think we chose the Browns, most of us?No, we were born into it. It's part of who we are, win or lose, just like long suffering Red Sox fans and Cubs fans. Browns fans are fans of the Browns, forever and ever and ever, amen. When I see someone in L.A. with a Browns cap or T-shirt, I instantly know their cool. They're loyal. They're proud to be a Browns fan and should be. It says WAY more about you than being a Cowboys or Yankees or Patriots fan, right?
I will not die sad if the Browns NEVER win a Super Bowl, which may or may not be the case. I enjoy being a Browns fan. It's a cool hobby, a way to connect with other people, something I really don't do all that often (as a writer AND an incurable misanthrope). I like the gear, the hats, the t-shirts, the coffee cups... the whole thing. I dig taking my sons to sit in great seats and stay in a nice hotel, visit the R&R Hall of Fame, maybe Cedar Point. I still imagine being semi-retired, writing only novels, living in Shaker Heights and taking the train to my great season tickets to the Browns AND Cavs.
Yes. That's right. I imagine semi-retiring in Cleveland. How about that?
No regrets, much joy... even the "suffering" is kind of fun, knocking around scenarios for improvement. The season may belong the the victors, but the OFF season belongs to us!
Run along, Ghoolie, you're a non-fan and always have been. You don't really even understand what it's all about. Generally speaking, you're an annoying, bitchy little kunt.
Buh-bye. You're on ignore. I have you a chance to be interesting and you failed miserably.
this is exactly what i was telling a fellow Browns fan when we were at the Titans game, We are not fans because our team is winning, how can we be, there is no such thing as a fair weather fan in Cleveland because there hasnt been any fair weather in a long long time, lol, at least when someone tells you they are a Browns fan, at least you know they are a TRUE fan
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@shepwrite said:
Browns fans are not fans of mediocrity. That makes no sense at all. Why would anybody be a fan of mediocrity? Do you think we chose the Browns, most of us?No, we were born into it. It's part of who we are, win or lose, just like long suffering Red Sox fans and Cubs fans. Browns fans are fans of the Browns, forever and ever and ever, amen. When I see someone in L.A. with a Browns cap or T-shirt, I instantly know their cool. They're loyal. They're proud to be a Browns fan and should be. It says WAY more about you than being a Cowboys or Yankees or Patriots fan, right?
I will not die sad if the Browns NEVER win a Super Bowl, which may or may not be the case. I enjoy being a Browns fan. It's a cool hobby, a way to connect with other people, something I really don't do all that often (as a writer AND an incurable misanthrope). I like the gear, the hats, the t-shirts, the coffee cups... the whole thing. I dig taking my sons to sit in great seats and stay in a nice hotel, visit the R&R Hall of Fame, maybe Cedar Point. I still imagine being semi-retired, writing only novels, living in Shaker Heights and taking the train to my great season tickets to the Browns AND Cavs.
Yes. That's right. I imagine semi-retiring in Cleveland. How about that?
No regrets, much joy... even the "suffering" is kind of fun, knocking around scenarios for improvement. The season may belong the the victors, but the OFF season belongs to us!
Run along, Ghoolie, you're a non-fan and always have been. You don't really even understand what it's all about. Generally speaking, you're an annoying, bitchy little kunt.
Buh-bye. You're on ignore. I have you a chance to be interesting and you failed miserably.
GREAT post!
Agendas change fast when you're trying to ruin a message board. We're about 2 weeks away from a massive pout session if this follows the same route it always has. I read Ghoolie's first kinder, gentler version of wanting to see how everyone is doing - took the bait. And here we are. Gee, he's a Steelers fan THIS week.
Never been any honor in quitting. Go down swinging so you can rest in peace some day. Nobody wants "I was a Coward" written on their tombstone anymore than they want a lifespan of 40 years summed up with "Yeah but I almost got One for the Thumb" on the gravestone. I'm sure Mike Webster's kid would rather have dad around for his 16th birthday. What would I know? I guess I'll just read Sports Illustrated's next body count of dead Steelers that cheated. I think I feel worse for them than Steeler fans. I know I do.
I thought Lyle Alzado, Russ Verba and Ryan Tucker were emotional hindrances to success here. Teammates thought 2 of the 3 were complete assholes while the other one went AWOL. I GET that Ben Johnson kicked everyone's ass in the Olympics - if he resided in Pittsburgh, they'd still count the Gold and remind everyone else they have it. Trouble is you'd have to explain right and wrong to a different breed of people incapable of getting it. Even their team physician had excessive supplies of HGH for his unethical lockerroom practices. See Bambi fall, see Bambi break wheel, see Bambi sprinting 2 weeks later (and all the way to Detroit in January). Go figure...
- Tom F. (Different strokes for different folks.)
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I'd be happy with steady progress. If we go 6-10 next year and 8-8 the year after i would be somewhat happy.
It took Parcells awhile to turn the Giants around.
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I'd be happy with steady progress. If we go 6-10 next year and 8-8 the year after i would be somewhat happy.
It took Parcells awhile to turn the Giants around.
I'd be happy with steady progress. If we go 6-10 next year and 8-8 the year after i would be somewhat happy.
It took Parcells awhile to turn the Giants around.
Not me...9-10 wins and playoffs is the minimum to make me somewhat happy.
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