Does Starting Over With New Coach Next Year = Another Losing Season?
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I only ask this question because it's such a convenient excuse for the new future coaching staff. Think about it. We WILL be getting a new coach who will hire his own Offense and Defensive Coordinators. That means our guys are going to have to scrap this "West Coast" offense and learn a whole new scheme on both sides of the ball.
If this is the case, I can just picture another 4-12, 5-11 record next year while we feel the new system out. I don't know about you guys but next year was pegged as our time and playoff-ready. I don't have it in these weak, feeble bones to go another losing season.
Please God, no.
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I only ask this question because it's such a convenient excuse for the new future coaching staff. Think about it. We WILL be getting a new coach who will hire his own Offense and Defensive Coordinators. That means our guys are going to have to scrap this "West Coast" offense and learn a whole new scheme on both sides of the ball.
If this is the case, I can just picture another 4-12, 5-11 record next year while we feel the new system out. I don't know about you guys but next year was pegged as our time and playoff-ready. I don't have it in these weak, feeble bones to go another losing season.
Please God, no.
I only ask this question because it's such a convenient excuse for the new future coaching staff. Think about it. We WILL be getting a new coach who will hire his own Offense and Defensive Coordinators. That means our guys are going to have to scrap this "West Coast" offense and learn a whole new scheme on both sides of the ball.
If this is the case, I can just picture another 4-12, 5-11 record next year while we feel the new system out. I don't know about you guys but next year was pegged as our time and playoff-ready. I don't have it in these weak, feeble bones to go another losing season.
Please God, no.
It didn't hurt the 49ers to start over again with a new coach. What were they last year in Jim Harbaugh's first year?
Just because you hire a new coach does NOT mean the team has to wait forever to be good.
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My 2 cents may not hold much worth as a non-Browns fan but hitting the reset button every couple of years in the NFL is not the best way to build. I look at what Cincy has done and while it may not be perfect they did have the foresight to keep Marvin Lewis and company in place. Even when their roster seemed to implode with their exodus of players they didn't miss a beat and kept on chugging.
The Harbaugh example is good, and with a new Browns owner who seems to truly care more than his predecessor the winds of change may take place in a positive way.
However, I am a Kent State alumni and big fan. I can tell you first hand that a new coach who knows his stuff and is FIRERY and PASSIONATE makes a big difference. The 49ers Harbaugh is and so is Kent State's new coach Darrell Hazell. Shurmer may know football but teams need coaches with personality to "motivate the troops"...I guess Belicheck is the rare exception but that man is a genius.
Both Harbaughs = passionate = winning
Tomlin = passionate = winning
McCarthy passionate = winning (sure he may have the best team in the league but even Jerry Rice could have bombed out of the league without proper coaching)
My post in a nutshell: Never underestimate passion and showing emotion on the sidelines.
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Shurmur... and Holmgren, have instilled a culture of blaming and inability to take personal responsibility.
Did anyone else watch Shurmur's press conference after the game? WTF was that. I woke up today excited b/c I thought he would be fired TODAY so Childress or Jauron would have the bye week to work with this team.
We have talent, young talent, and these guys need motivators who will take ownership of the sidelines, and will instill a culture throughout the team that EVERYBODY is responsible to do their job play-in and play-out. Shurmur refuses to take blame for bad playcalling, and players refuse to take blame for individual efforts falling short. They are doing nothing but talking about how they COULD HAVE or SHOULD HAVE... that shit don't work. These guys need to do their job regardless of whether or not they had a couple good plays earlier in the game. They need to be responsible for EVERY play.
Look at guys like Bellichick, Harbaugh, Tomlin, Coughlin, Reid, and yes even Shanahan, these guys accept blame and emphasize guys doing their job.
There is no way that firing Shurmur will set this team back. We need to get a motivated coach who will focus on the little things that win and lose football games. Individual effort is key. 11 guys in each phase of the game performing well on every play. That's how you win games. And, coaches need to put those players in favorable positions, not just run THEIR schemes. Browns need to go back to the basics and get a coach that is willing to do that in order to protect the football and get victories.
That's my rant, 24 hours later...
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Yes. We will still suck until we get better players and some consistency at coaching.
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NO, Rex Ryan went to the AFC Championship game with a rookie QB, Harbaugh in SF, John Fox took Denver to the playoffs, Whisenhunt had the cardinals 8-8 after a 5-11 season, took them to SB in 2nd season. This team with a good coach could easily be over .500 this season. haslam brings in the right guy and a few FA/good draft and this team might make the playoffs next year.
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The WCO is prevalent enough that a HC change doesn't necessarily mean scraping all that's been invested in the past two years. Not all "WCO's" are identical, but the similarities are many.
For example... and again, this is not my wish, simply my premonition... when Andy Reid, another WCO disciple, comes to Cleveland to be our next HC.
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You never know, look at how Harbaugh flipped the 9ers around without really adding anybody last season. Took them from a 6-10 team to a 3-13 team
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You never know, look at how Harbaugh flipped the 9ers around without really adding anybody last season. Took them from a 6-10 team to a 3-13 team
You never know, look at how Harbaugh flipped the 9ers around without really adding anybody last season. Took them from a 6-10 team to a 3-13 team
you guys are missing the point. if harbaugh came into the browns situation let's say 2-3 years from now that could be comparable. but not now. they they had the RB that's played and proved himself. a QB rookie (not comparable as far as when picked but still like a rookie because of the # of diff coor and offenses he had to learn) a decent defense with some stars in previously years but studs added the year before . the players also learned from a one year hard nosed no BS taking coach that was there before him. no way comparable to us.
we might have a couple of the same resources harbaugh had before taking over the nigers but he sure had a better base to build upon.
so in short, yes it will mean another losing season and another QB pick in 2014.
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NO, Rex Ryan went to the AFC Championship game with a rookie QB, Harbaugh in SF, John Fox took Denver to the playoffs, Whisenhunt had the cardinals 8-8 after a 5-11 season, took them to SB in 2nd season. This team with a good coach could easily be over .500 this season. haslam brings in the right guy and a few FA/good draft and this team might make the playoffs next year.
NO, Rex Ryan went to the AFC Championship game with a rookie QB, Harbaugh in SF, John Fox took Denver to the playoffs, Whisenhunt had the cardinals 8-8 after a 5-11 season, took them to SB in 2nd season. This team with a good coach could easily be over .500 this season. haslam brings in the right guy and a few FA/good draft and this team might make the playoffs next year.
I agree. WIth a good head coach and some young and hungry assistants,(no more old exheadcoaches) we can turn it around quickly
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The west coast offense sucks. I hate it. Hopefully its gone after this year. It has no business in the AFC north
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This is why I want Chip Kelly...
He takes calculated risks to win. I have watched close to every Oregon game in the past two years and the plays that he converts on 4th and 1-6 yard(s) are well thought out and are plays with a high success rate. I want a coach who emphasizes conditioning, playing fast, and playing aggressive. With Trent, Gordon, Little, and Benjamin there is a lot of multi-dimensional talent on this team, and they need a coach who will use them for what they are for.
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The west coast offense sucks. I hate it. Hopefully its gone after this year. It has no business in the AFC north
The west coast offense sucks. I hate it. Hopefully its gone after this year. It has no business in the AFC north
I honestly think it can work it in the NFL, just not with Pat Shurmur at the helm. He runs it by the book and has not brought any modern playcalling into the scheme. He's predictable, quite possibly the most predictable coach of the decade.
The thing I hate most about Shurmur and it is painfully obvious, he coaches like he has something to lose..he coaches NOT TO LOSE, which is very different than coaching to win.
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This is why I want Chip Kelly...
He takes calculated risks to win. I have watched close to every Oregon game in the past two years and the plays that he converts on 4th and 1-6 yard(s) are well thought out and are plays with a high success rate. I want a coach who emphasizes conditioning, playing fast, and playing aggressive. With Trent, Gordon, Little, and Benjamin there is a lot of multi-dimensional talent on this team, and they need a coach who will use them for what they are for.
This is why I want Chip Kelly...
He takes calculated risks to win. I have watched close to every Oregon game in the past two years and the plays that he converts on 4th and 1-6 yard(s) are well thought out and are plays with a high success rate. I want a coach who emphasizes conditioning, playing fast, and playing aggressive. With Trent, Gordon, Little, and Benjamin there is a lot of multi-dimensional talent on this team, and they need a coach who will use them for what they are for.
to kinda piggyback off your line of thinking.
HC- Mike McCoy. he has shown that he can adapt his offense to fit the style of players that he has.. Guy changed his offense a 1/4 of the way thru the season last year to accomodate Tebow. he could work wonders with this trio
OC- Mark Helfrich- He has been OC for the Ducks for 3 years now and BB talked to Urban and adjusted his offense to have some of the college spread to it. A little outside the box thinking but him and McCoy could build one exciting offense.
DC- Gill Byrd- he is secondary coach in Chicago, another young coach to that comes from a very good defense. He also comes from a 4-3/tampa 2 scheme so they wouldn't be switching back to 3-4.
all these guys are young and could bring some fire to this team. well fire away
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The Browns will lose if next year if you didn't draft your talent correctly, regardless of who your coach is. Weeden is your franchise QB, and the Browns will lose for several more seasons (at least) if Weeden isn't a competent QB (unless you get lucky and find the next Tom Brady in next year's 5th round or so). You gave up Julio Jones for Weeden, and from this point in time that doesn't appear to be a good trade-off.
As to whether or not you change the coach, the owner has to ask. Is Shurmur the guy Haslam wants calling the shots (my guess is NO)? Does Shurmur have sound play-calling (my guess is from fan reaction here in this forum, that the answer is NO)? Does Shurmur have a strong vision for the franchise and does he appear to be building a foundation for the future (from what little I've seen of the Browns, I'd say NO)?
If you want to win immediately, you need a specific kind of coach. That would be one of the Bill Cowher/Marty Schottenhiemer school. Even then you may not win immediately, but you do appear to have a good O-line and a potential star at running back, so there are pieces in place to win. Until you know what you have in a QB and/or even if Weeden turns out to be a loser, you need the kind of coach who can design a team around weak QB play. I don't think your going to win in the short term unless you get a coach with a physical (smash-mouth) offensive/defensive attitude (run the ball/stop the run).
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The Browns will lose if next year if you didn't draft your talent correctly, regardless of who your coach is. Weeden is your franchise QB, and the Browns will lose for several more seasons (at least) if Weeden isn't a competent QB (unless you get lucky and find the next Tom Brady in next year's 5th round or so). You gave up Julio Jones for Weeden, and from this point in time that doesn't appear to be a good trade-off.
As to whether or not you change the coach, the owner has to ask. Is Shurmur the guy Haslam wants calling the shots (my guess is NO)? Does Shurmur have sound play-calling (my guess is from fan reaction here in this forum, that the answer is NO)? Does Shurmur have a strong vision for the franchise and does he appear to be building a foundation for the future (from what little I've seen of the Browns, I'd say NO)?
If you want to win immediately, you need a specific kind of coach. That would be one of the Bill Cowher/Marty Schottenhiemer school. Even then you may not win immediately, but you do appear to have a good O-line and a potential star at running back, so there are pieces in place to win. Until you know what you have in a QB and/or even if Weeden turns out to be a loser, you need the kind of coach who can design a team around weak QB play. I don't think your going to win in the short term unless you get a coach with a physical (smash-mouth) offensive/defensive attitude (run the ball/stop the run).
Endymion said:
You gave up Julio Jones for Weeden, and from this point in time that doesn't appear to be a good trade-off.
We gave up Julio Jones for Phil Taylor, Greg Little, Ownen Marecic, Brandon Weeden and James Michael Johnson ... dickface.
4 starters, including a franchise QB.
Zombo
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yeah. we'll all find ourselves here next year around this time rehashing this same bullshit.
fanchise QB. franchise RB. why did we pick this guy or that guy, why does this coach suck, why does the play calling suck?
i think it would be a terrible mistake to blow up the whole coaching staff. keep those who have done their jobs and those who haven't bye bye.
haslam looks like the type of guy that will put everybody in a room and MAKE them work together, or else.
tell you what though, if pictures are worth a thousand words then banner looks like a thousand time over jew rat bastard. don't trust him.
BYE THE WAY THANKS OHIO! (for not blowing another prews. election like you did when you were the deciding vote on bush. embarrassing).
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