Reason For Uncertainty Involving Bw3
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I see Weeden getting a fair evaluation & chance from very qualified Coaches. I don't worry about EGO, whether it be Lombardi's or someone else's & here's why. Haslam is no "half-assed" Owner such as we've seen before. The man didn't build his current wealth by catering to someone else's ego & I trust that IF he saw a scenario like that starting, he would nip it in the bud. He has worked hard so far to get this train on a track to success & I just don't see Jimmy tolerating ANY part of the train jumping the tracks.
We'll see what happens, but I see him being involved in a very positive way.
Mike
IN DORSEY I TRUST -
By the way, I think it may have been Mel Kiper or McShay, or both who said that if BW3 were available in this year's draft, he would be the first QB taken, no doubt.
By the way, I think it may have been Mel Kiper or McShay, or both who said that if BW3 were available in this year's draft, he would be the first QB taken, no doubt.
Plus, he'd be eligible for SSI, so that would save some cap room.
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Depending on what team gets him, Geno Smith can have a very solid NFL career.
I think he can have Russell Wilson type success. He's an exceptional passer and makes good decisions, as evidenced by his TD: INT ratio. He is going to fly under the radar so to speak because his production slipped this season but I think when all is said and done, he'll be the most successful of any QB in this draft.
Watched him a little in 2011, but not so much this year his numbers are impressive but looking at some of the teams they have played the last couple years may have inflated his numbers some. But your not really going out on a limb calling him possibly the most successful qb in the draft.
Watched him a little in 2011, but not so much this year his numbers are impressive but looking at some of the teams they have played the last couple years may have inflated his numbers some. But your not really going out on a limb calling him possibly the most successful qb in the draft.
I never claimed it to be a bold prediction.
But I think Smith will do a lot better than most anticipate. The one thing he has that most of the QB's in this draft don't is the uncanny knack for extending plays.
Zac Dyset also seems to possess a proficiency for extending plays, but his skill set isn't that of Smith's.
Smith reminds me of Donovan McNabb. He's not the fastest QB or the most elusive but he's aware enough and just quick enough to elude defenders and make a play.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
I see Weeden getting a fair evaluation & chance from very qualified Coaches. I don't worry about EGO, whether it be Lombardi's or someone else's & here's why. Haslam is no "half-assed" Owner such as we've seen before. The man didn't build his current wealth by catering to someone else's ego & I trust that IF he saw a scenario like that starting, he would nip it in the bud. He has worked hard so far to get this train on a track to success & I just don't see Jimmy tolerating ANY part of the train jumping the tracks.
We'll see what happens, but I see him being involved in a very positive way.
Mike
I see Weeden getting a fair evaluation & chance from very qualified Coaches. I don't worry about EGO, whether it be Lombardi's or someone else's & here's why. Haslam is no "half-assed" Owner such as we've seen before. The man didn't build his current wealth by catering to someone else's ego & I trust that IF he saw a scenario like that starting, he would nip it in the bud. He has worked hard so far to get this train on a track to success & I just don't see Jimmy tolerating ANY part of the train jumping the tracks.
We'll see what happens, but I see him being involved in a very positive way.
Mike
I think...and hope that you are right, Mike. On the other hand I think JH is a guy who hires guys he thinks are professionals and allows them to do their job. If he believes in Lombardi and Lombardi wants to dump a QB that HE doesn't like, I suspect that JH will go along.
But, like I said, too many people in this town who are in a position to know DO NOT trust Lombardi to do anything but what makes Lombardi look good.
And I think many of them believe that Lombardi doing a mea culpa is NOT in his character makeup.
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We might have QUITE the QB controversy this offseason
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Watched him a little in 2011, but not so much this year his numbers are impressive but looking at some of the teams they have played the last couple years may have inflated his numbers some. But your not really going out on a limb calling him possibly the most successful qb in the draft.
I never claimed it to be a bold prediction.
But I think Smith will do a lot better than most anticipate. The one thing he has that most of the QB's in this draft don't is the uncanny knack for extending plays.
Zac Dyset also seems to possess a proficiency for extending plays, but his skill set isn't that of Smith's.
Smith reminds me of Donovan McNabb. He's not the fastest QB or the most elusive but he's aware enough and just quick enough to elude defenders and make a play.
I never claimed it to be a bold prediction.
But I think Smith will do a lot better than most anticipate. The one thing he has that most of the QB's in this draft don't is the uncanny knack for extending plays.
Zac Dyset also seems to possess a proficiency for extending plays, but his skill set isn't that of Smith's.
Smith reminds me of Donovan McNabb. He's not the fastest QB or the most elusive but he's aware enough and just quick enough to elude defenders and make a play.
Geno Smith was hot, hot, hot when the last college season began....a shoe in for the Heisman....and the sure fire first overall pick. Then he petered out and basically disappeared.
The guy does intrigue me because I saw him play lights out in those first few games....and he looked every bit as good as an RGIII.....but then he petered out.
So? What happened to him?
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I never claimed it to be a bold prediction.
But I think Smith will do a lot better than most anticipate. The one thing he has that most of the QB's in this draft don't is the uncanny knack for extending plays.
Zac Dyset also seems to possess a proficiency for extending plays, but his skill set isn't that of Smith's.
Smith reminds me of Donovan McNabb. He's not the fastest QB or the most elusive but he's aware enough and just quick enough to elude defenders and make a play.
Geno Smith was hot, hot, hot when the last college season began....a shoe in for the Heisman....and the sure fire first overall pick. Then he petered out and basically disappeared.
The guy does intrigue me because I saw him play lights out in those first few games....and he looked every bit as good as an RGIII.....but then he petered out.
So? What happened to him?
Geno Smith was hot, hot, hot when the last college season began....a shoe in for the Heisman....and the sure fire first overall pick. Then he petered out and basically disappeared.
The guy does intrigue me because I saw him play lights out in those first few games....and he looked every bit as good as an RGIII.....but then he petered out.
So? What happened to him?
The problem was two-fold.
First, Dana Holgorsen changed the offense. The Mountaineers rushed the ball nearly 50 more times in 2012 than they did in 2011. Their rushing attack was supposed to be more of a feature and less of a supplement to Smith.
Unfortunately, West Virginia's defense was awful. They were allowing opponents to score nearly 40 points per game. With sticking to the rush and their defense being a sieve, Smith had to play from behind for a majority of last season, and forced too many passes trying to overcompensate.
Honestly, with the way their defense played, it's amazing they won as many games as they did. If Maryland and Texas had viable starting QB's, they both would have beaten West Virginia.
When your offense feels like it has to make up for the ineffectiveness of your defense, things are bound to go wrong.
Geno Smith still threw for 42 TD's to 7 INT's with a 71.2 completion percentage...in a "bad" year with a bad team.
17 TDs and 4 INT's and 1,387 yards against top 25 teams last season. I'd take him.
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I see Weeden getting a fair evaluation & chance from very qualified Coaches. I don't worry about EGO, whether it be Lombardi's or someone else's & here's why. Haslam is no "half-assed" Owner such as we've seen before. The man didn't build his current wealth by catering to someone else's ego & I trust that IF he saw a scenario like that starting, he would nip it in the bud. He has worked hard so far to get this train on a track to success & I just don't see Jimmy tolerating ANY part of the train jumping the tracks.
We'll see what happens, but I see him being involved in a very positive way.
Mike
I think...and hope that you are right, Mike. On the other hand I think JH is a guy who hires guys he thinks are professionals and allows them to do their job. If he believes in Lombardi and Lombardi wants to dump a QB that HE doesn't like, I suspect that JH will go along.
But, like I said, too many people in this town who are in a position to know DO NOT trust Lombardi to do anything but what makes Lombardi look good.
And I think many of them believe that Lombardi doing a mea culpa is NOT in his character makeup.
I think...and hope that you are right, Mike. On the other hand I think JH is a guy who hires guys he thinks are professionals and allows them to do their job. If he believes in Lombardi and Lombardi wants to dump a QB that HE doesn't like, I suspect that JH will go along.
But, like I said, too many people in this town who are in a position to know DO NOT trust Lombardi to do anything but what makes Lombardi look good.
And I think many of them believe that Lombardi doing a mea culpa is NOT in his character makeup.
One thing for sure Gip. Haslam's no dummy, and knows there was plenty of bad karma letting Banner bring Lombardi back to Cleveland in the first place. He certainly listened to Lombardi's presser where Mike about told Tony Grossi to give him a chance. You can take it to the bank Grossi will blast Lombardi out of the water after his first screw up. So I'd say ML has about a one year trial period to show he's learned how to draft and run a personnel office. To my mind, it's going to depend on who has final say on the players- Chud or Mike.
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I think...and hope that you are right, Mike. On the other hand I think JH is a guy who hires guys he thinks are professionals and allows them to do their job. If he believes in Lombardi and Lombardi wants to dump a QB that HE doesn't like, I suspect that JH will go along.
But, like I said, too many people in this town who are in a position to know DO NOT trust Lombardi to do anything but what makes Lombardi look good.
And I think many of them believe that Lombardi doing a mea culpa is NOT in his character makeup.
One thing for sure Gip. Haslam's no dummy, and knows there was plenty of bad karma letting Banner bring Lombardi back to Cleveland in the first place. He certainly listened to Lombardi's presser where Mike about told Tony Grossi to give him a chance. You can take it to the bank Grossi will blast Lombardi out of the water after his first screw up. So I'd say ML has about a one year trial period to show he's learned how to draft and run a personnel office. To my mind, it's going to depend on who has final say on the players- Chud or Mike.
One thing for sure Gip. Haslam's no dummy, and knows there was plenty of bad karma letting Banner bring Lombardi back to Cleveland in the first place. He certainly listened to Lombardi's presser where Mike about told Tony Grossi to give him a chance. You can take it to the bank Grossi will blast Lombardi out of the water after his first screw up. So I'd say ML has about a one year trial period to show he's learned how to draft and run a personnel office. To my mind, it's going to depend on who has final say on the players- Chud or Mike.
From the fans stand point I don't think he has a year. He has until the upcoming FA period ends...and until the end of April...and particularly when the first part of Sept. rolls around and WE fans expect whatever he does to bear fruit right here, right now.
There is no honeymoon. There is no grace period. There is only winning or getting the fuck out.
-
I see Weeden getting a fair evaluation & chance from very qualified Coaches. I don't worry about EGO, whether it be Lombardi's or someone else's & here's why. Haslam is no "half-assed" Owner such as we've seen before. The man didn't build his current wealth by catering to someone else's ego & I trust that IF he saw a scenario like that starting, he would nip it in the bud. He has worked hard so far to get this train on a track to success & I just don't see Jimmy tolerating ANY part of the train jumping the tracks.
We'll see what happens, but I see him being involved in a very positive way.
Mike
Haslam is no "half-assed" Owner such as we've seen before
i hope the hire of banner doesn't come back to bite him in the ass. his hire (banner's) of lombardi was god awful IMO. i would have kept hecket. i don't see all this reasoning around cleaning house from top to bottom. if a guy has done a good, keep him on the staff. banner let his ego get in the way there, because of whatever tiff there was between he and heckert.
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This is a pretty big exaggeration/overreaction on the part of Browns' fans, and particularly Cleveland media. Lombardi is not the GM, and has never been told he was given final say on ANYTHING, let alone our first round draft pick. Let's look at the guys who will be involved in making player decisions this offseason:
Jimmy Haslam, Owner
Joe Banner, CEO
Lombardi
Rob Chudzinski, HC
Norv Turner, OC
Ray Horton, DC
Scott Tabor, STC
Jon Sandusky, Director of player personnel (has been doing it for years and was a Banner guy before coming over with Heckert)
John Spytek, Director of college scouting (was brought up as a scout with Banner, and was brought over by Heckert and has done an incredible job)
That is a pretty crowded room with a lot of veteran "football guys." I just don't see where Lombardi's "ego" can step in and convince all of these guys to make a foolish decision. That's just my opinion at least.
#Justsayin' -
This is a pretty big exaggeration/overreaction on the part of Browns' fans, and particularly Cleveland media. Lombardi is not the GM, and has never been told he was given final say on ANYTHING, let alone our first round draft pick. Let's look at the guys who will be involved in making player decisions this offseason:
Jimmy Haslam, Owner
Joe Banner, CEO
Lombardi
Rob Chudzinski, HC
Norv Turner, OC
Ray Horton, DC
Scott Tabor, STC
Jon Sandusky, Director of player personnel (has been doing it for years and was a Banner guy before coming over with Heckert)
John Spytek, Director of college scouting (was brought up as a scout with Banner, and was brought over by Heckert and has done an incredible job)
That is a pretty crowded room with a lot of veteran "football guys." I just don't see where Lombardi's "ego" can step in and convince all of these guys to make a foolish decision. That's just my opinion at least.
This is a pretty big exaggeration/overreaction on the part of Browns' fans, and particularly Cleveland media. Lombardi is not the GM, and has never been told he was given final say on ANYTHING, let alone our first round draft pick. Let's look at the guys who will be involved in making player decisions this offseason:
Jimmy Haslam, Owner
Joe Banner, CEO
Lombardi
Rob Chudzinski, HC
Norv Turner, OC
Ray Horton, DC
Scott Tabor, STC
Jon Sandusky, Director of player personnel (has been doing it for years and was a Banner guy before coming over with Heckert)
John Spytek, Director of college scouting (was brought up as a scout with Banner, and was brought over by Heckert and has done an incredible job)
That is a pretty crowded room with a lot of veteran "football guys." I just don't see where Lombardi's "ego" can step in and convince all of these guys to make a foolish decision. That's just my opinion at least.
Pretty much my point earlier. This is a totally different "scheme" in Cleveland & I also believe no ONE guy will be able to gum up the works. I'm excited to see what happens.
Mike
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This is a pretty big exaggeration/overreaction on the part of Browns' fans, and particularly Cleveland media. Lombardi is not the GM, and has never been told he was given final say on ANYTHING, let alone our first round draft pick. Let's look at the guys who will be involved in making player decisions this offseason:
Jimmy Haslam, Owner
Joe Banner, CEO
Lombardi
Rob Chudzinski, HC
Norv Turner, OC
Ray Horton, DC
Scott Tabor, STC
Jon Sandusky, Director of player personnel (has been doing it for years and was a Banner guy before coming over with Heckert)
John Spytek, Director of college scouting (was brought up as a scout with Banner, and was brought over by Heckert and has done an incredible job)
That is a pretty crowded room with a lot of veteran "football guys." I just don't see where Lombardi's "ego" can step in and convince all of these guys to make a foolish decision. That's just my opinion at least.
This is a pretty big exaggeration/overreaction on the part of Browns' fans, and particularly Cleveland media. Lombardi is not the GM, and has never been told he was given final say on ANYTHING, let alone our first round draft pick. Let's look at the guys who will be involved in making player decisions this offseason:
Jimmy Haslam, Owner
Joe Banner, CEO
Lombardi
Rob Chudzinski, HC
Norv Turner, OC
Ray Horton, DC
Scott Tabor, STC
Jon Sandusky, Director of player personnel (has been doing it for years and was a Banner guy before coming over with Heckert)
John Spytek, Director of college scouting (was brought up as a scout with Banner, and was brought over by Heckert and has done an incredible job)
That is a pretty crowded room with a lot of veteran "football guys." I just don't see where Lombardi's "ego" can step in and convince all of these guys to make a foolish decision. That's just my opinion at least.
Well, let's hope you are right. But, the fact is there IS a lot of "My Guy" mentality in the NFL.
Sometimes that works good, like Jim Harbaugh going with Kaepernick over Smith. But as often as not the ego pull of putting "my guy" in place doesn't work out so well.
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Haslam is no "half-assed" Owner such as we've seen before
i hope the hire of banner doesn't come back to bite him in the ass. his hire (banner's) of lombardi was god awful IMO. i would have kept hecket. i don't see all this reasoning around cleaning house from top to bottom. if a guy has done a good, keep him on the staff. banner let his ego get in the way there, because of whatever tiff there was between he and heckert.
i hope the hire of banner doesn't come back to bite him in the ass. his hire (banner's) of lombardi was god awful IMO. i would have kept hecket. i don't see all this reasoning around cleaning house from top to bottom. if a guy has done a good, keep him on the staff. banner let his ego get in the way there, because of whatever tiff there was between he and heckert.
I tend to agrre with you Mik. Banner is (was) highly regarded around the NFL though. Can't see how Lombardi's track record in any way was superior to Heckert's? I sure hope the other poster is right that Lombardi will only have one voice out of 8 when it comes to personnel decisions and the draft.
From the fans stand point I don't think he has a year. He has until the upcoming FA period ends...and until the end of April...and particularly when the first part of Sept. rolls around and WE fans expect whatever he does to bear fruit right here, right now.
There is no honeymoon. There is no grace period. There is only winning or getting the fuck out.
Amen to that Gipper. Banner was on record he put his ass on the line bringing in ML, and if Mike screws up, Joe's going to be out of work too.
Though I want to see what happens in FA and the draft before I start the run Lombardi out of town chant. Another good indicator of Haslam's intentions will come when the Love (extortion) Letter from Berea comes sometime in March as to how much the 2013 season tickets will cost.
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Geno Smith was hot, hot, hot when the last college season began....a shoe in for the Heisman....and the sure fire first overall pick. Then he petered out and basically disappeared.
The guy does intrigue me because I saw him play lights out in those first few games....and he looked every bit as good as an RGIII.....but then he petered out.
So? What happened to him?
The problem was two-fold.
First, Dana Holgorsen changed the offense. The Mountaineers rushed the ball nearly 50 more times in 2012 than they did in 2011. Their rushing attack was supposed to be more of a feature and less of a supplement to Smith.
Unfortunately, West Virginia's defense was awful. They were allowing opponents to score nearly 40 points per game. With sticking to the rush and their defense being a sieve, Smith had to play from behind for a majority of last season, and forced too many passes trying to overcompensate.
Honestly, with the way their defense played, it's amazing they won as many games as they did. If Maryland and Texas had viable starting QB's, they both would have beaten West Virginia.
When your offense feels like it has to make up for the ineffectiveness of your defense, things are bound to go wrong.
Geno Smith still threw for 42 TD's to 7 INT's with a 71.2 completion percentage...in a "bad" year with a bad team.
17 TDs and 4 INT's and 1,387 yards against top 25 teams last season. I'd take him.
The problem was two-fold.
First, Dana Holgorsen changed the offense. The Mountaineers rushed the ball nearly 50 more times in 2012 than they did in 2011. Their rushing attack was supposed to be more of a feature and less of a supplement to Smith.
Unfortunately, West Virginia's defense was awful. They were allowing opponents to score nearly 40 points per game. With sticking to the rush and their defense being a sieve, Smith had to play from behind for a majority of last season, and forced too many passes trying to overcompensate.
Honestly, with the way their defense played, it's amazing they won as many games as they did. If Maryland and Texas had viable starting QB's, they both would have beaten West Virginia.
When your offense feels like it has to make up for the ineffectiveness of your defense, things are bound to go wrong.
Geno Smith still threw for 42 TD's to 7 INT's with a 71.2 completion percentage...in a "bad" year with a bad team.
17 TDs and 4 INT's and 1,387 yards against top 25 teams last season. I'd take him.
You could even say that West Virginia's defense was god-awful.
The other major factor in Smith's fall-off was the fact that other than Smith, Tavon Austin, and Stedman Baily, the
rest of the talent on offense was pretty unimpressive. Shawn Alston started the season as a wrecking ball at RB but
suffered a deep thigh bruise against James Madison in the second (3rd?) game and his effectiveness was ended for the
season. Throw in an unimpressive offensive line and the die was cast for the rest of the season.
I just don't know about Geno Smith. When he's going good, man, he can be lights out. When things aren't going his way
though (watch the bowl game with Syracuse) it's not a pretty sight. On Dana Holgerson's strong suggestion he ran a lot
less this season and tried to stay in the pocket more. But he can be very effective at avoiding the rush, extending the play
and running for positive yardage with deceptive speed. He looks sort-of uncoordinated and slow when he runs but he definitely
gets the job done. He's very intelligent--his film study habits at WVU are legendary. His durability is a question with me, however. Like RGIII, he is slow to get up after a hit, in a way that makes you hold your breath.
I wouldn't be upset to see Smith wearing the Brown & Orange, just not at the expense of a first round #6.
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