Andy Levitre
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hell, yea, as long as he can be signed for a reasonable amount.
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Even with the cap space, you can't expect to go out and sign 3 plus good starters in one FA period. I know Lauvou is average at best and Pinkston had his whole blood clot in the lungs to deal with, but with Greco still under contract and playing good I don't see this guy as a top priority signing when we have holes at OLB, CB, and FS. Not to mention our question marks (yes at this point this is a question mark) at DE and MLB. I would love to sign Levitre, but how much money can we realistically keep throwing into the offensive line when other units suffer?
On top of that, what ever we pay this guy this year, we will have to pay Mack next year in order to keep him. His contract is up. I would actually prefer to get Mack under a contract extension now instead of signing Levitre as a FA, because if we do sign Levitre, it because too hard to re-sign Mack.
Even with the cap space, you can't expect to go out and sign 3 plus good starters in one FA period. I know Lauvou is average at best and Pinkston had his whole blood clot in the lungs to deal with, but with Greco still under contract and playing good I don't see this guy as a top priority signing when we have holes at OLB, CB, and FS. Not to mention our question marks (yes at this point this is a question mark) at DE and MLB. I would love to sign Levitre, but how much money can we realistically keep throwing into the offensive line when other units suffer?
On top of that, what ever we pay this guy this year, we will have to pay Mack next year in order to keep him. His contract is up. I would actually prefer to get Mack under a contract extension now instead of signing Levitre as a FA, because if we do sign Levitre, it because too hard to re-sign Mack.
I don't think anyone is realistically expecting to sign three big name FA's, but you can't rule yourself out just because it's an unlikely occurrence.
Signing Levitre has no effect whatsoever on other FA moves this season. In fact, one can even say it has a positive effect insofar as it shows the other FA's that we are looking to be a contender immediately.
If we have the cap space, which we do, there is no reason not to make him a solid offer.
Our OL as whole are near the middle of the league in total contract hits. Joe Thomas has a monster contract and Mack has a top 10 C contract, which they should, and that inflates the numbers a tad. But Pinkston, Cousins and Greco are all earning figures in the 600-800 thousand range this season, which is chump change. We can afford another mid to large sized contract on the OL.
This FA period is weak, and the draft is ripe with depth at every defensive position of need for us. Even if we strike out on every other FA, we can still realistically add a starting OLB and starting CB to our team through this upcoming draft.
As for your question marks at DE, I would like to hear the reasoning behind that. We have some of the best interior linemen in the league, and a 3-4 DE is nothing more than a 4-3 interior lineman. Rubin, Taylor, and even Winn could start for nearly every team that runs a 3-4. Winn is a natural 3-4 DE, and will be a solid player for us in this system.
D'Qwell Jackson has been near the top of the league in tackles in every season he's played and although he's naturally suited for the 4-3, he is more than talented enough to play Mike in the 3-4. Our other interior LB is a question mark, I'll agree. But with
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
i posted this earlier on a dying thread but i think it's relevant in this conversation, so:
i take this with a grain of salt because it came from the bleacher report BUT
they have us signing FAs
QB matt moore - from miami
LB cliff avril - from detroit
LB anthony spencer - from dallas
if they're right do we still go after LB with our number one pick? i guess it will depend on if, how and when these players of interest sign.
not for nothing those LBs would be a HUGE addition. HUGE!!!!!
i agree with HB that we have thrown a lot of resources and attention to the OL in recent years BUT our right side is still weak. it's fix it in FA or fix it in the draft. same on defense. do you go with a proven commodity that will cost you big or do you draft a rookie in hopes that he doesn't fizzle out like a wet candle.
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Even with the cap space, you can't expect to go out and sign 3 plus good starters in one FA period. I know Lauvou is average at best and Pinkston had his whole blood clot in the lungs to deal with, but with Greco still under contract and playing good I don't see this guy as a top priority signing when we have holes at OLB, CB, and FS. Not to mention our question marks (yes at this point this is a question mark) at DE and MLB. I would love to sign Levitre, but how much money can we realistically keep throwing into the offensive line when other units suffer?
On top of that, what ever we pay this guy this year, we will have to pay Mack next year in order to keep him. His contract is up. I would actually prefer to get Mack under a contract extension now instead of signing Levitre as a FA, because if we do sign Levitre, it because too hard to re-sign Mack.
I don't think anyone is realistically expecting to sign three big name FA's, but you can't rule yourself out just because it's an unlikely occurrence.
Signing Levitre has no effect whatsoever on other FA moves this season. In fact, one can even say it has a positive effect insofar as it shows the other FA's that we are looking to be a contender immediately.
If we have the cap space, which we do, there is no reason not to make him a solid offer.
Our OL as whole are near the middle of the league in total contract hits. Joe Thomas has a monster contract and Mack has a top 10 C contract, which they should, and that inflates the numbers a tad. But Pinkston, Cousins and Greco are all earning figures in the 600-800 thousand range this season, which is chump change. We can afford another mid to large sized contract on the OL.
This FA period is weak, and the draft is ripe with depth at every defensive position of need for us. Even if we strike out on every other FA, we can still realistically add a starting OLB and starting CB to our team through this upcoming draft.
As for your question marks at DE, I would like to hear the reasoning behind that. We have some of the best interior linemen in the league, and a 3-4 DE is nothing more than a 4-3 interior lineman. Rubin, Taylor, and even Winn could start for nearly every team that runs a 3-4. Winn is a natural 3-4 DE, and will be a solid player for us in this system.
D'Qwell Jackson has been near the top of the league in tackles in every season he's played and although he's naturally suited for the 4-3, he is more than talented enough to play Mike in the 3-4. Our other interior LB is a question mark, I'll agree. But with
I don't think anyone is realistically expecting to sign three big name FA's, but you can't rule yourself out just because it's an unlikely occurrence.
Signing Levitre has no effect whatsoever on other FA moves this season. In fact, one can even say it has a positive effect insofar as it shows the other FA's that we are looking to be a contender immediately.
If we have the cap space, which we do, there is no reason not to make him a solid offer.
Our OL as whole are near the middle of the league in total contract hits. Joe Thomas has a monster contract and Mack has a top 10 C contract, which they should, and that inflates the numbers a tad. But Pinkston, Cousins and Greco are all earning figures in the 600-800 thousand range this season, which is chump change. We can afford another mid to large sized contract on the OL.
This FA period is weak, and the draft is ripe with depth at every defensive position of need for us. Even if we strike out on every other FA, we can still realistically add a starting OLB and starting CB to our team through this upcoming draft.
As for your question marks at DE, I would like to hear the reasoning behind that. We have some of the best interior linemen in the league, and a 3-4 DE is nothing more than a 4-3 interior lineman. Rubin, Taylor, and even Winn could start for nearly every team that runs a 3-4. Winn is a natural 3-4 DE, and will be a solid player for us in this system.
D'Qwell Jackson has been near the top of the league in tackles in every season he's played and although he's naturally suited for the 4-3, he is more than talented enough to play Mike in the 3-4. Our other interior LB is a question mark, I'll agree. But with
I can agree that a big name signing bring positive vibes to the team and helps bring in other guys, but we have the highest paid LT in football, a guy who is going to have to be paid in the top 5 by next year, and Schwart, while not expensive, is still taking over 1 million from the cap which will only rise until his contract is up. Now we want to bring in a guy who is going to demand top 5 G money. So by next year if we do manage to resign Mack and sign Levitre, we will be throwing a ton of money into the OL. At the point where we have the best LT, a top 5 C, and Schwart, who was considered the best tackle to be drafted last year after Kalil and a top 5 RT last season, we want to throw millions of dollars for next season at the guard spot. I'm fine with talking to him, I'm fine with even giving him an offer, but if he demands the type of money I think he is going to, I say let him walk and focus your attention else where.
We need to focus on signing a starting CB, a position that demands a lot of money even for average starters, and a rushing OLB. We need to throw money at those positions. Spencer from Dallas, while being better against the run, would fit in nicely and demand some serious money. Kruger which is more of a question mark will demand a high pay check as well. Not to mention we need to build depth, quality depth. We will not be able to rely entirely on the draft to build depth and in order to find quality depth we will need to sign guys early.
Now to mention DE and MLB, yes those spots are question marks. Can Taylor and Winn play 3-4 DE? I think they can, and I think they will do a great job. Do we know that? Nope. We are going to have to bring in a 3-4 DE with some experience. Not a high value guy, but someone demanding 2-3 million a year. MLB is a bigger question mark. We have a lot of young guys who who showed promise. JMJ did good when he got over his early season injury, Maivia did good when healthy in the old 3-4, and then you have Roberston, Fort, and Carder, who all showed us good things last year. Not to mention Acho who was put on IR, god only knows what they kid can do and if you will play ILB, OLB, or just get cut. At MLB our only true starter is a guy who has spent more time on the injury reserve the past 3 season than on the field. One full season of healthy play (not really healthy since he had to deal with a lot of smaller injuries during the season that limited his practice time) doesn't make me feel like he is going to go through this season without problems. Miavia most likely won't stay healthy through the whole season if he starts or even if he is a back up.
Notice I haven't even mentioned CB yet. Brown is gone and if not he shouldn't be a start. I don't even think he could be better than Young at safety by this point in his career. After that we have Skrine who just got shit on most of the season, and whats his name from Arizona who got shit on so hard the begining of the season that he didn't see the field past special teams most of the time. The only bright spot was Bademosi who has one good game played in the last few minutes of the 4th quarter. What can he do? Hell if me or anyone with actual indepth NFL football knowledge.
Just step back. We are switching defenses. We need to make cuts and fill the wholes. We don't have the picks to fill those holes and even if we did they would mostly still be untested late round picks. We are not going to see Banner praising his 7th round picks as future stars like Heckert did. Guard just isn't the priority right now.
And as I have said still wouldn't be mad if we picked up Levitre. I would only be mad it we did sign him and we didn't put the focus on more important positions.
i posted this earlier on a dying thread but i think it's relevant in this conversation, so:
i take this with a grain of salt because it came from the bleacher report BUT
they have us signing FAs
QB matt moore - from miami
LB cliff avril - from detroit
LB anthony spencer - from dallas
if they're right do we still go after LB with our number one pick? i guess it will depend on if, how and when these players of interest sign.
not for nothing those LBs would be a HUGE addition. HUGE!!!!!
i agree with HB that we have thrown a lot of resources and attention to the OL in recent years BUT our right side is still weak. it's fix it in FA or fix it in the draft. same on defense. do you go with a proven commodity that will cost you big or do you draft a rookie in hopes that he doesn't fizzle out like a wet candle.
You still go OLB with the first pick in the situation unless Millner is still there for us. Avril is a career 4-3 DE. No one knows if he can make the switch to OLB and he more than likely isn't going to want to switch positions. Spencer, while a quality starter, is a better run stopper than pass rusher. Now 10 sacks last year was good, but that was also with Ware on the other side. He would be good to sign, but just almost as much of a question mark as Sheard playing OLB. You can look at Kruger and other OLB as well and they have just as many question marks IMO. We are still going to bring that good pass rusher in from the draft and the only ones with the least question marks are where we pick in the first.
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I don't think anyone is realistically expecting to sign three big name FA's, but you can't rule yourself out just because it's an unlikely occurrence.
Signing Levitre has no effect whatsoever on other FA moves this season. In fact, one can even say it has a positive effect insofar as it shows the other FA's that we are looking to be a contender immediately.
If we have the cap space, which we do, there is no reason not to make him a solid offer.
Our OL as whole are near the middle of the league in total contract hits. Joe Thomas has a monster contract and Mack has a top 10 C contract, which they should, and that inflates the numbers a tad. But Pinkston, Cousins and Greco are all earning figures in the 600-800 thousand range this season, which is chump change. We can afford another mid to large sized contract on the OL.
This FA period is weak, and the draft is ripe with depth at every defensive position of need for us. Even if we strike out on every other FA, we can still realistically add a starting OLB and starting CB to our team through this upcoming draft.
As for your question marks at DE, I would like to hear the reasoning behind that. We have some of the best interior linemen in the league, and a 3-4 DE is nothing more than a 4-3 interior lineman. Rubin, Taylor, and even Winn could start for nearly every team that runs a 3-4. Winn is a natural 3-4 DE, and will be a solid player for us in this system.
D'Qwell Jackson has been near the top of the league in tackles in every season he's played and although he's naturally suited for the 4-3, he is more than talented enough to play Mike in the 3-4. Our other interior LB is a question mark, I'll agree. But with
I can agree that a big name signing bring positive vibes to the team and helps bring in other guys, but we have the highest paid LT in football, a guy who is going to have to be paid in the top 5 by next year, and Schwart, while not expensive, is still taking over 1 million from the cap which will only rise until his contract is up. Now we want to bring in a guy who is going to demand top 5 G money. So by next year if we do manage to resign Mack and sign Levitre, we will be throwing a ton of money into the OL. At the point where we have the best LT, a top 5 C, and Schwart, who was considered the best tackle to be drafted last year after Kalil and a top 5 RT last season, we want to throw millions of dollars for next season at the guard spot. I'm fine with talking to him, I'm fine with even giving him an offer, but if he demands the type of money I think he is going to, I say let him walk and focus your attention else where.
We need to focus on signing a starting CB, a position that demands a lot of money even for average starters, and a rushing OLB. We need to throw money at those positions. Spencer from Dallas, while being better against the run, would fit in nicely and demand some serious money. Kruger which is more of a question mark will demand a high pay check as well. Not to mention we need to build depth, quality depth. We will not be able to rely entirely on the draft to build depth and in order to find quality depth we will need to sign guys early.
Now to mention DE and MLB, yes those spots are question marks. Can Taylor and Winn play 3-4 DE? I think they can, and I think they will do a great job. Do we know that? Nope. We are going to have to bring in a 3-4 DE with some experience. Not a high value guy, but someone demanding 2-3 million a year. MLB is a bigger question mark. We have a lot of young guys who who showed promise. JMJ did good when he got over his early season injury, Maivia did good when healthy in the old 3-4, and then you have Roberston, Fort, and Carder, who all showed us good things last year. Not to mention Acho who was put on IR, god only knows what they kid can do and if you will play ILB, OLB, or just get cut. At MLB our only true starter is a guy who has spent more time on the injury reserve the past 3 season than on the field. One full season of healthy play (not really healthy since he had to deal with a lot of smaller injuries during the season that limited his practice time) doesn't make me feel like he is going to go through this season without problems. Miavia most likely won't stay healthy through the whole season if he starts or even if he is a back up.
Notice I haven't even mentioned CB yet. Brown is gone and if not he shouldn't be a start. I don't even think he could be better than Young at safety by this point in his career. After that we have Skrine who just got shit on most of the season, and whats his name from Arizona who got shit on so hard the begining of the season that he didn't see the field past special teams most of the time. The only bright spot was Bademosi who has one good game played in the last few minutes of the 4th quarter. What can he do? Hell if me or anyone with actual indepth NFL football knowledge.
Just step back. We are switching defenses. We need to make cuts and fill the wholes. We don't have the picks to fill those holes and even if we did they would mostly still be untested late round picks. We are not going to see Banner praising his 7th round picks as future stars like Heckert did. Guard just isn't the priority right now.
And as I have said still wouldn't be mad if we picked up Levitre. I would only be mad it we did sign him and we didn't put the focus on more important positions.
i posted this earlier on a dying thread but i think it's relevant in this conversation, so:
i take this with a grain of salt because it came from the bleacher report BUT
they have us signing FAs
QB matt moore - from miami
LB cliff avril - from detroit
LB anthony spencer - from dallas
if they're right do we still go after LB with our number one pick? i guess it will depend on if, how and when these players of interest sign.
not for nothing those LBs would be a HUGE addition. HUGE!!!!!
i agree with HB that we have thrown a lot of resources and attention to the OL in recent years BUT our right side is still weak. it's fix it in FA or fix it in the draft. same on defense. do you go with a proven commodity that will cost you big or do you draft a rookie in hopes that he doesn't fizzle out like a wet candle.
You still go OLB with the first pick in the situation unless Millner is still there for us. Avril is a career 4-3 DE. No one knows if he can make the switch to OLB and he more than likely isn't going to want to switch positions. Spencer, while a quality starter, is a better run stopper than pass rusher. Now 10 sacks last year was good, but that was also with Ware on the other side. He would be good to sign, but just almost as much of a question mark as Sheard playing OLB. You can look at Kruger and other OLB as well and they have just as many question marks IMO. We are still going to bring that good pass rusher in from the draft and the only ones with the least question marks are where we pick in the first.
I can agree that a big name signing bring positive vibes to the team and helps bring in other guys, but we have the highest paid LT in football, a guy who is going to have to be paid in the top 5 by next year, and Schwart, while not expensive, is still taking over 1 million from the cap which will only rise until his contract is up. Now we want to bring in a guy who is going to demand top 5 G money. So by next year if we do manage to resign Mack and sign Levitre, we will be throwing a ton of money into the OL. At the point where we have the best LT, a top 5 C, and Schwart, who was considered the best tackle to be drafted last year after Kalil and a top 5 RT last season, we want to throw millions of dollars for next season at the guard spot. I'm fine with talking to him, I'm fine with even giving him an offer, but if he demands the type of money I think he is going to, I say let him walk and focus your attention else where.
We need to focus on signing a starting CB, a position that demands a lot of money even for average starters, and a rushing OLB. We need to throw money at those positions. Spencer from Dallas, while being better against the run, would fit in nicely and demand some serious money. Kruger which is more of a question mark will demand a high pay check as well. Not to mention we need to build depth, quality depth. We will not be able to rely entirely on the draft to build depth and in order to find quality depth we will need to sign guys early.
Now to mention DE and MLB, yes those spots are question marks. Can Taylor and Winn play 3-4 DE? I think they can, and I think they will do a great job. Do we know that? Nope. We are going to have to bring in a 3-4 DE with some experience. Not a high value guy, but someone demanding 2-3 million a year. MLB is a bigger question mark. We have a lot of young guys who who showed promise. JMJ did good when he got over his early season injury, Maivia did good when healthy in the old 3-4, and then you have Roberston, Fort, and Carder, who all showed us good things last year. Not to mention Acho who was put on IR, god only knows what they kid can do and if you will play ILB, OLB, or just get cut. At MLB our only true starter is a guy who has spent more time on the injury reserve the past 3 season than on the field. One full season of healthy play (not really healthy since he had to deal with a lot of smaller injuries during the season that limited his practice time) doesn't make me feel like he is going to go through this season without problems. Miavia most likely won't stay healthy through the whole season if he starts or even if he is a back up.
Notice I haven't even mentioned CB yet. Brown is gone and if not he shouldn't be a start. I don't even think he could be better than Young at safety by this point in his career. After that we have Skrine who just got shit on most of the season, and whats his name from Arizona who got shit on so hard the begining of the season that he didn't see the field past special teams most of the time. The only bright spot was Bademosi who has one good game played in the last few minutes of the 4th quarter. What can he do? Hell if me or anyone with actual indepth NFL football knowledge.
Just step back. We are switching defenses. We need to make cuts and fill the wholes. We don't have the picks to fill those holes and even if we did they would mostly still be untested late round picks. We are not going to see Banner praising his 7th round picks as future stars like Heckert did. Guard just isn't the priority right now.
And as I have said still wouldn't be mad if we picked up Levitre. I would only be mad it we did sign him and we didn't put the focus on more important positions.
You still go OLB with the first pick in the situation unless Millner is still there for us. Avril is a career 4-3 DE. No one knows if he can make the switch to OLB and he more than likely isn't going to want to switch positions. Spencer, while a quality starter, is a better run stopper than pass rusher. Now 10 sacks last year was good, but that was also with Ware on the other side. He would be good to sign, but just almost as much of a question mark as Sheard playing OLB. You can look at Kruger and other OLB as well and they have just as many question marks IMO. We are still going to bring that good pass rusher in from the draft and the only ones with the least question marks are where we pick in the first.
The beauty of the NFL contracts lies in the fact that they are backloaded and staggered. Levitre will count for somewhere 900k-1 mil against the cap next season, probably with that figure increasing by a rate of around 30-50% per year for, lets say, five years. That's going to put him at around 5 mil against the cap in his final season, which would be right around the midpoint of Mack's extension and the beginning of Thomas' final contract.
If done right, their contracts won't hit peaks at the same time, keeping us well under the cap and with plenty if maneuverability.
It's at least worthy of a shot., especially if we plan on keeping T. Rich healthy.
As for the DE's, Winn is a natural 3-4 DE. He played it a Boise State, and was projected as a top 3-4 DE in the draft. Taylor is untested, but the primary function of a 3-4 DE is not unlike that of a 4-3 Tackle. He is there to eat up double teams and occupy blockers.
I'm strapped for time, I'll address more later.
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I can agree that a big name signing bring positive vibes to the team and helps bring in other guys, but we have the highest paid LT in football, a guy who is going to have to be paid in the top 5 by next year, and Schwart, while not expensive, is still taking over 1 million from the cap which will only rise until his contract is up. Now we want to bring in a guy who is going to demand top 5 G money. So by next year if we do manage to resign Mack and sign Levitre, we will be throwing a ton of money into the OL. At the point where we have the best LT, a top 5 C, and Schwart, who was considered the best tackle to be drafted last year after Kalil and a top 5 RT last season, we want to throw millions of dollars for next season at the guard spot. I'm fine with talking to him, I'm fine with even giving him an offer, but if he demands the type of money I think he is going to, I say let him walk and focus your attention else where.
We need to focus on signing a starting CB, a position that demands a lot of money even for average starters, and a rushing OLB. We need to throw money at those positions. Spencer from Dallas, while being better against the run, would fit in nicely and demand some serious money. Kruger which is more of a question mark will demand a high pay check as well. Not to mention we need to build depth, quality depth. We will not be able to rely entirely on the draft to build depth and in order to find quality depth we will need to sign guys early.
Now to mention DE and MLB, yes those spots are question marks. Can Taylor and Winn play 3-4 DE? I think they can, and I think they will do a great job. Do we know that? Nope. We are going to have to bring in a 3-4 DE with some experience. Not a high value guy, but someone demanding 2-3 million a year. MLB is a bigger question mark. We have a lot of young guys who who showed promise. JMJ did good when he got over his early season injury, Maivia did good when healthy in the old 3-4, and then you have Roberston, Fort, and Carder, who all showed us good things last year. Not to mention Acho who was put on IR, god only knows what they kid can do and if you will play ILB, OLB, or just get cut. At MLB our only true starter is a guy who has spent more time on the injury reserve the past 3 season than on the field. One full season of healthy play (not really healthy since he had to deal with a lot of smaller injuries during the season that limited his practice time) doesn't make me feel like he is going to go through this season without problems. Miavia most likely won't stay healthy through the whole season if he starts or even if he is a back up.
Notice I haven't even mentioned CB yet. Brown is gone and if not he shouldn't be a start. I don't even think he could be better than Young at safety by this point in his career. After that we have Skrine who just got shit on most of the season, and whats his name from Arizona who got shit on so hard the begining of the season that he didn't see the field past special teams most of the time. The only bright spot was Bademosi who has one good game played in the last few minutes of the 4th quarter. What can he do? Hell if me or anyone with actual indepth NFL football knowledge.
Just step back. We are switching defenses. We need to make cuts and fill the wholes. We don't have the picks to fill those holes and even if we did they would mostly still be untested late round picks. We are not going to see Banner praising his 7th round picks as future stars like Heckert did. Guard just isn't the priority right now.
And as I have said still wouldn't be mad if we picked up Levitre. I would only be mad it we did sign him and we didn't put the focus on more important positions.
You still go OLB with the first pick in the situation unless Millner is still there for us. Avril is a career 4-3 DE. No one knows if he can make the switch to OLB and he more than likely isn't going to want to switch positions. Spencer, while a quality starter, is a better run stopper than pass rusher. Now 10 sacks last year was good, but that was also with Ware on the other side. He would be good to sign, but just almost as much of a question mark as Sheard playing OLB. You can look at Kruger and other OLB as well and they have just as many question marks IMO. We are still going to bring that good pass rusher in from the draft and the only ones with the least question marks are where we pick in the first.
The beauty of the NFL contracts lies in the fact that they are backloaded and staggered. Levitre will count for somewhere 900k-1 mil against the cap next season, probably with that figure increasing by a rate of around 30-50% per year for, lets say, five years. That's going to put him at around 5 mil against the cap in his final season, which would be right around the midpoint of Mack's extension and the beginning of Thomas' final contract.
If done right, their contracts won't hit peaks at the same time, keeping us well under the cap and with plenty if maneuverability.
It's at least worthy of a shot., especially if we plan on keeping T. Rich healthy.
As for the DE's, Winn is a natural 3-4 DE. He played it a Boise State, and was projected as a top 3-4 DE in the draft. Taylor is untested, but the primary function of a 3-4 DE is not unlike that of a 4-3 Tackle. He is there to eat up double teams and occupy blockers.
I'm strapped for time, I'll address more later.
The beauty of the NFL contracts lies in the fact that they are backloaded and staggered. Levitre will count for somewhere 900k-1 mil against the cap next season, probably with that figure increasing by a rate of around 30-50% per year for, lets say, five years. That's going to put him at around 5 mil against the cap in his final season, which would be right around the midpoint of Mack's extension and the beginning of Thomas' final contract.
If done right, their contracts won't hit peaks at the same time, keeping us well under the cap and with plenty if maneuverability.
It's at least worthy of a shot., especially if we plan on keeping T. Rich healthy.
As for the DE's, Winn is a natural 3-4 DE. He played it a Boise State, and was projected as a top 3-4 DE in the draft. Taylor is untested, but the primary function of a 3-4 DE is not unlike that of a 4-3 Tackle. He is there to eat up double teams and occupy blockers.
I'm strapped for time, I'll address more later.
If we could get him for 1 million against the cap at anytime during his contract then yes go for it. We won't get him for that kind of money though. In order to get him for that kind of money against the cap we would need to offer him large amounts of guaranteed money. Even at the end of his contract, if he is making 5 mill a year, he would still have to have a guaranteed bonus of around the 2 mill mark, which is a lot at that point in his career. Remember this guy is one of the best guards in the NFL, he will command a large contract.
I would counter that if Winn was projected as a top 3-4 DE he would have been picked soon than the 6th round by a team that ran the 4-3, as for Taylor I think he has great athleticism for a big guy, but he has never played the position. I am agreeing that they both have a good shot to be good at the positions, but that isn't anything we can know. Along with that, who do we have behind them who can play the positions? Hughes at NT then who else? I'm sure we'll pick up someone in the draft, but where? You can't even trust players to be decent back ups in this league after the 3rd round.
And remember, I'm not running around all doom and gloom because I think that everyone on our roster can't fit into the 3-4, but not every will fit and we have a lot of depth to fill. This time next year we could see Taylor traded off to another team or Winn cut because he isn't effective. We don't know.
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The beauty of the NFL contracts lies in the fact that they are backloaded and staggered. Levitre will count for somewhere 900k-1 mil against the cap next season, probably with that figure increasing by a rate of around 30-50% per year for, lets say, five years. That's going to put him at around 5 mil against the cap in his final season, which would be right around the midpoint of Mack's extension and the beginning of Thomas' final contract.
If done right, their contracts won't hit peaks at the same time, keeping us well under the cap and with plenty if maneuverability.
It's at least worthy of a shot., especially if we plan on keeping T. Rich healthy.
As for the DE's, Winn is a natural 3-4 DE. He played it a Boise State, and was projected as a top 3-4 DE in the draft. Taylor is untested, but the primary function of a 3-4 DE is not unlike that of a 4-3 Tackle. He is there to eat up double teams and occupy blockers.
I'm strapped for time, I'll address more later.
If we could get him for 1 million against the cap at anytime during his contract then yes go for it. We won't get him for that kind of money though. In order to get him for that kind of money against the cap we would need to offer him large amounts of guaranteed money. Even at the end of his contract, if he is making 5 mill a year, he would still have to have a guaranteed bonus of around the 2 mill mark, which is a lot at that point in his career. Remember this guy is one of the best guards in the NFL, he will command a large contract.
I would counter that if Winn was projected as a top 3-4 DE he would have been picked soon than the 6th round by a team that ran the 4-3, as for Taylor I think he has great athleticism for a big guy, but he has never played the position. I am agreeing that they both have a good shot to be good at the positions, but that isn't anything we can know. Along with that, who do we have behind them who can play the positions? Hughes at NT then who else? I'm sure we'll pick up someone in the draft, but where? You can't even trust players to be decent back ups in this league after the 3rd round.
And remember, I'm not running around all doom and gloom because I think that everyone on our roster can't fit into the 3-4, but not every will fit and we have a lot of depth to fill. This time next year we could see Taylor traded off to another team or Winn cut because he isn't effective. We don't know.
If we could get him for 1 million against the cap at anytime during his contract then yes go for it. We won't get him for that kind of money though. In order to get him for that kind of money against the cap we would need to offer him large amounts of guaranteed money. Even at the end of his contract, if he is making 5 mill a year, he would still have to have a guaranteed bonus of around the 2 mill mark, which is a lot at that point in his career. Remember this guy is one of the best guards in the NFL, he will command a large contract.
I would counter that if Winn was projected as a top 3-4 DE he would have been picked soon than the 6th round by a team that ran the 4-3, as for Taylor I think he has great athleticism for a big guy, but he has never played the position. I am agreeing that they both have a good shot to be good at the positions, but that isn't anything we can know. Along with that, who do we have behind them who can play the positions? Hughes at NT then who else? I'm sure we'll pick up someone in the draft, but where? You can't even trust players to be decent back ups in this league after the 3rd round.
And remember, I'm not running around all doom and gloom because I think that everyone on our roster can't fit into the 3-4, but not every will fit and we have a lot of depth to fill. This time next year we could see Taylor traded off to another team or Winn cut because he isn't effective. We don't know.
At no point in his career has he commanded 1 million a season against the cap. He's been a 6 figure player his entire career this far. No matter what he wants to get, he won't go from making 900k to making 3 million in the matter of one season. No teams will offer that drastic of an increase.
As for Winn, it's not a stat I made up, Kiper ranked him high as a 3-4 prospect. His knock was that he played for a team that many considered gimmicky, and that his production wasn't where they expected it to be in his senior season.
At this point, Id rather have us land a handful of great players that have no backups than have a roster filled of second string "depth" talent. I understand the importance, but I am drunk and don't care right now.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
If we could get him for 1 million against the cap at anytime during his contract then yes go for it. We won't get him for that kind of money though. In order to get him for that kind of money against the cap we would need to offer him large amounts of guaranteed money. Even at the end of his contract, if he is making 5 mill a year, he would still have to have a guaranteed bonus of around the 2 mill mark, which is a lot at that point in his career. Remember this guy is one of the best guards in the NFL, he will command a large contract.
I would counter that if Winn was projected as a top 3-4 DE he would have been picked soon than the 6th round by a team that ran the 4-3, as for Taylor I think he has great athleticism for a big guy, but he has never played the position. I am agreeing that they both have a good shot to be good at the positions, but that isn't anything we can know. Along with that, who do we have behind them who can play the positions? Hughes at NT then who else? I'm sure we'll pick up someone in the draft, but where? You can't even trust players to be decent back ups in this league after the 3rd round.
And remember, I'm not running around all doom and gloom because I think that everyone on our roster can't fit into the 3-4, but not every will fit and we have a lot of depth to fill. This time next year we could see Taylor traded off to another team or Winn cut because he isn't effective. We don't know.
At no point in his career has he commanded 1 million a season against the cap. He's been a 6 figure player his entire career this far. No matter what he wants to get, he won't go from making 900k to making 3 million in the matter of one season. No teams will offer that drastic of an increase.
As for Winn, it's not a stat I made up, Kiper ranked him high as a 3-4 prospect. His knock was that he played for a team that many considered gimmicky, and that his production wasn't where they expected it to be in his senior season.
At this point, Id rather have us land a handful of great players that have no backups than have a roster filled of second string "depth" talent. I understand the importance, but I am drunk and don't care right now.
At this point, Id rather have us land a handful of great players that have no backups than have a roster filled of second string "depth" talent.
that would be a change wouldn't it?
i think heckert has set us up nicely with second string talent. lol. considering we don't have a lot of picks in the draft and no second rounder, this FA period is key for the browns.
say we do sign this OL, who else would you target in FA and how would that change your strategy in the draft? if we add a LB in FA do we trade down from the 6 spot to get a second rounder? what if jones or milner is there @ 6?
big decisions.
edit: btw has FA started? when can teams start signing players (or making bids)?
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If we could get him for 1 million against the cap at anytime during his contract then yes go for it. We won't get him for that kind of money though. In order to get him for that kind of money against the cap we would need to offer him large amounts of guaranteed money. Even at the end of his contract, if he is making 5 mill a year, he would still have to have a guaranteed bonus of around the 2 mill mark, which is a lot at that point in his career. Remember this guy is one of the best guards in the NFL, he will command a large contract.
I would counter that if Winn was projected as a top 3-4 DE he would have been picked soon than the 6th round by a team that ran the 4-3, as for Taylor I think he has great athleticism for a big guy, but he has never played the position. I am agreeing that they both have a good shot to be good at the positions, but that isn't anything we can know. Along with that, who do we have behind them who can play the positions? Hughes at NT then who else? I'm sure we'll pick up someone in the draft, but where? You can't even trust players to be decent back ups in this league after the 3rd round.
And remember, I'm not running around all doom and gloom because I think that everyone on our roster can't fit into the 3-4, but not every will fit and we have a lot of depth to fill. This time next year we could see Taylor traded off to another team or Winn cut because he isn't effective. We don't know.
At no point in his career has he commanded 1 million a season against the cap. He's been a 6 figure player his entire career this far. No matter what he wants to get, he won't go from making 900k to making 3 million in the matter of one season. No teams will offer that drastic of an increase.
As for Winn, it's not a stat I made up, Kiper ranked him high as a 3-4 prospect. His knock was that he played for a team that many considered gimmicky, and that his production wasn't where they expected it to be in his senior season.
At this point, Id rather have us land a handful of great players that have no backups than have a roster filled of second string "depth" talent. I understand the importance, but I am drunk and don't care right now.
At no point in his career has he commanded 1 million a season against the cap. He's been a 6 figure player his entire career this far. No matter what he wants to get, he won't go from making 900k to making 3 million in the matter of one season. No teams will offer that drastic of an increase.
As for Winn, it's not a stat I made up, Kiper ranked him high as a 3-4 prospect. His knock was that he played for a team that many considered gimmicky, and that his production wasn't where they expected it to be in his senior season.
At this point, Id rather have us land a handful of great players that have no backups than have a roster filled of second string "depth" talent. I understand the importance, but I am drunk and don't care right now.
that would be a change wouldn't it?
i think heckert has set us up nicely with second string talent. lol. considering we don't have a lot of picks in the draft and no second rounder, this FA period is key for the browns.
say we do sign this OL, who else would you target in FA and how would that change your strategy in the draft? if we add a LB in FA do we trade down from the 6 spot to get a second rounder? what if jones or milner is there @ 6?
big decisions.
edit: btw has FA started? when can teams start signing players (or making bids)?
First off you already win with the drunk comment
Now I'm not saying that we have to bring in second string talent to start, I'm saying we are going to need to bring in second string talent to play second string. Huge difference.
Also he has only counted for 6 figures against the cap thus far because he has been on his rookie contract. That is why he is going into FA, cause his rookie contract is up. How much did Joe Thomas start counting for against the cap after his rookie contract? Millions. Good players who are the best at their position command big contracts when they get their first post rookie contract. Even guards. He will demand more than 1 million against the cap, he is going to be paid as a top 5 guard.
And FA is only open for players who have been cut by their teams. That is why we brought in Breaston this week, cause he was cut by the Chiefs. Players who have expiring contracts can't be signed until March 12th and their agents can't talk to other teams until the 9th I believe. That isn't to same teams are being hush hush and talking to players anyway. Cribbs opened his stupid mouth and said his agent was in contact with a handful of teams already and they already told him what they would be willing to offer. That is illegal and I am sure the league is going to look into it.
Another point that I haven't mentioned. We are going to be signing another QB and probably another WR as well. Depending on the WR we sign they could command a lot against the cap as well.
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At no point in his career has he commanded 1 million a season against the cap. He's been a 6 figure player his entire career this far. No matter what he wants to get, he won't go from making 900k to making 3 million in the matter of one season. No teams will offer that drastic of an increase.
As for Winn, it's not a stat I made up, Kiper ranked him high as a 3-4 prospect. His knock was that he played for a team that many considered gimmicky, and that his production wasn't where they expected it to be in his senior season.
At this point, Id rather have us land a handful of great players that have no backups than have a roster filled of second string "depth" talent. I understand the importance, but I am drunk and don't care right now.
that would be a change wouldn't it?
i think heckert has set us up nicely with second string talent. lol. considering we don't have a lot of picks in the draft and no second rounder, this FA period is key for the browns.
say we do sign this OL, who else would you target in FA and how would that change your strategy in the draft? if we add a LB in FA do we trade down from the 6 spot to get a second rounder? what if jones or milner is there @ 6?
big decisions.
edit: btw has FA started? when can teams start signing players (or making bids)?
First off you already win with the drunk comment
Now I'm not saying that we have to bring in second string talent to start, I'm saying we are going to need to bring in second string talent to play second string. Huge difference.
Also he has only counted for 6 figures against the cap thus far because he has been on his rookie contract. That is why he is going into FA, cause his rookie contract is up. How much did Joe Thomas start counting for against the cap after his rookie contract? Millions. Good players who are the best at their position command big contracts when they get their first post rookie contract. Even guards. He will demand more than 1 million against the cap, he is going to be paid as a top 5 guard.
And FA is only open for players who have been cut by their teams. That is why we brought in Breaston this week, cause he was cut by the Chiefs. Players who have expiring contracts can't be signed until March 12th and their agents can't talk to other teams until the 9th I believe. That isn't to same teams are being hush hush and talking to players anyway. Cribbs opened his stupid mouth and said his agent was in contact with a handful of teams already and they already told him what they would be willing to offer. That is illegal and I am sure the league is going to look into it.
Another point that I haven't mentioned. We are going to be signing another QB and probably another WR as well. Depending on the WR we sign they could command a lot against the cap as well.
First off you already win with the drunk comment
Now I'm not saying that we have to bring in second string talent to start, I'm saying we are going to need to bring in second string talent to play second string. Huge difference.
Also he has only counted for 6 figures against the cap thus far because he has been on his rookie contract. That is why he is going into FA, cause his rookie contract is up. How much did Joe Thomas start counting for against the cap after his rookie contract? Millions. Good players who are the best at their position command big contracts when they get their first post rookie contract. Even guards. He will demand more than 1 million against the cap, he is going to be paid as a top 5 guard.
And FA is only open for players who have been cut by their teams. That is why we brought in Breaston this week, cause he was cut by the Chiefs. Players who have expiring contracts can't be signed until March 12th and their agents can't talk to other teams until the 9th I believe. That isn't to same teams are being hush hush and talking to players anyway. Cribbs opened his stupid mouth and said his agent was in contact with a handful of teams already and they already told him what they would be willing to offer. That is illegal and I am sure the league is going to look into it.
Another point that I haven't mentioned. We are going to be signing another QB and probably another WR as well. Depending on the WR we sign they could command a lot against the cap as well.
First off you already win with the drunk comment
Now I'm not saying that we have to bring in second string talent to start, I'm saying we are going to need to bring in second string talent to play second string. Huge difference.
Also he has only counted for 6 figures against the cap thus far because he has been on his rookie contract. That is why he is going into FA, cause his rookie contract is up. How much did Joe Thomas start counting for against the cap after his rookie contract? Millions. Good players who are the best at their position command big contracts when they get their first post rookie contract. Even guards. He will demand more than 1 million against the cap, he is going to be paid as a top 5 guard.
And FA is only open for players who have been cut by their teams. That is why we brought in Breaston this week, cause he was cut by the Chiefs. Players who have expiring contracts can't be signed until March 12th and their agents can't talk to other teams until the 9th I believe. That isn't to same teams are being hush hush and talking to players anyway. Cribbs opened his stupid mouth and said his agent was in contact with a handful of teams already and they already told him what they would be willing to offer. That is illegal and I am sure the league is going to look into it.
Another point that I haven't mentioned. We are going to be signing another QB and probably another WR as well. Depending on the WR we sign they could command a lot against the cap as well.
But you are forgetting to factor in the pay scale by position. Joe Thomas' rookie contract was almost identical to the contract signed by Carl Nicks last season which made him the NFL's highest paid guard.
A top 5 contract for a G is still a decently pedestrian contract in relation. Nicks' contract was 5 years-45 million, and he is the best guard in the game. Levitre's contract will not exceed that; it will most likely be in the 7 years-50 million range.
He will command more than a million off the cap, for sure. But if Banner is any sort of GM, CEO, whatever he is, he'll structure the contract in a way to protect the Browns from having to make any significant cuts in the future. I would predict a cap hit of 2 million next season, escalating up to 12 by the final year of his contract. Stagger that with Mack's contract, Thomas' contract, Richardson's contract and Haden's contract and we have all of our main pieces locked up.
We're going to have to spend a lot of money this offseason regardless. I just hope we spend it on quality players who can make us better instead of system guys and old buddies.
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Him or womack is a must have this year. The Brown's have to sow u the O-line this year. IMO this should be priority #1. Two 1st rounders last year that could benefit from this move.
Personally i would trade back and get Chance & more much needed draft picks. There is not a big enough gap in third round talent as first round talent in pass rushers. U take Chance and u get the best player in draft.
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