Inequality Video
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Plus I asked you what rates you think would make everybody happy.
And you immediately went to crank mode.
WSS
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Let's take a look at your friends in the Occupy Wall Street gang okay? I don't remember attending any of these protests. I do remember writing pieces that said they were upset at the wrong things are almost entirely useless as a political movement. But you lump me in with them because, well, we know why.
A good portion of them are younger college grads crying that they can't get a job with their new degrees. This doesn't have anything to do with Occupy Wall Street. You just pick them out to find a target you can hate.
Your solution? Have the government pay for more and more kids to take college classes. No, it's not.
Reduce the load put on them from taking those classes financially. I'll let you straighten out the grammar on this one.
First of all giving away college money drastically increase is the cost of college. That's a useless generalization.
We've seen that in spades. You don't seem to have a handle on what's driving college costs.
And sorry kids, you are not going to make 6 figures with a sociology degree.
Probably not with art history, women's studies or even liberal arts. Sure, you can. Happens all the time. But what you're saying is that some majors should expect to make less than others. That's hardly revolutionary, or controversial, so pointing it out doesn't get us anywhere. Because no one is saying that the problem is art history majors.
So really the problem lies within the ever increasing number of children that wash through the system without being able to read or write on a fifth grade level. That's actually not true. We've had measurable gains in achievement. So the numbers aren't increasing, they're going down.
Your solution? Get rid of standardized testing, eliminate charter schools add send more money to the teachers union. Hahaha. Yes, this is my solution, you moron.
Since teachers in all districts need to have basically the same education requirements it must be something else that makes kids at Hudson smarter than kids at JFK.
Education requirements are not a good way to measure a teacher's quality. And I don't know who is arguing that teachers' education level is the only factor in education, so this point is beyond dumb.
Do you suppose teachers in Hong Kong, Red China, South Korea, and India get paid lots more than US teachers? Do you suppose they have a sweeter benefits package?
Do you suppose that's why those kids are doing better?
Do you suppose children born to single parent households have a better or worse chance?
I realize that's a lot of supposing for you.
Gee, I never thought you'd get it back to your two opinions about education, which are "I don't like people in the inner cities" and "I don't like teachers unions."
Like I said, let's not.
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Steve, once again, you're arguing with someone who is not me, assuming you know my positions on these issues when you clearly don't. You just assume the cartoon and then get pissy about the cartoon. It's not interesting. I'd rather debate with my shoe.
At least you'd be on equal footing...
So if this is the 1 case in 1,000,000 that you are not completely in lockstep with the rhetorical and the campaign blather of the Democrat Party let's hear it.
It seems I recall you stating you wanted teachers salaries to double or at least be increased dramatically correct?
WSS
At least you'd be on equal footing...
So if this is the 1 case in 1,000,000 that you are not completely in lockstep with the rhetorical and the campaign blather of the Democrat Party let's hear it.
It seems I recall you stating you wanted teachers salaries to double or at least be increased dramatically correct?
WSS
Hahaha. No. No, I don't think teachers salaries should double or be increased dramatically.
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Plus I asked you what rates you think would make everybody happy.
And you immediately went to crank mode.
WSS
Plus I asked you what rates you think would make everybody happy.
And you immediately went to crank mode.
WSS
Because it's a stupid question.
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I'm going to move on with my day. I don't know what I expect of you. It never changes.
I'll ask you for the final time: try and get through a post without being a dick and maybe we can get somewhere. For a guy who fancies himself as a jolly type, you have a horrible habit of instantly reverting to a crank and an asshole who just wants to reduce the only person who bothers talking to you to a stereotype he can handle, because he obviously can't handle anything else.
Try ideas or an actual argument, instead of figuring out which groups of people you don't like. This is all you do. It's where you always get to. It never takes more than a sentence or two. Occupy Wall Street, teachers unions, Code Pink, Farrakhan, Sharpton, Obama - we get it. Those aren't opinions. Those are your old saws and your bugaboos. Try something else or I'm done.
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There was a discussion about paying teachers much more money so the schools could compete with other businesses and Professions.
You agreed with that, if you say you didn't I'll call you a liar.
Or suffering from non age related dementia.
WSS
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I'm going to move on with my day. I don't know what I expect of you. It never changes.
I'll ask you for the final time: try and get through a post without being a dick and maybe we can get somewhere. For a guy who fancies himself as a jolly type, you have a horrible habit of instantly reverting to a crank and an asshole who just wants to reduce the only person who bothers talking to you to a stereotype he can handle, because he obviously can't handle anything else.
Try ideas or an actual argument, instead of figuring out which groups of people you don't like. This is all you do. It's where you always get to. It never takes more than a sentence or two. Occupy Wall Street, teachers unions, Code Pink, Farrakhan, Sharpton, Obama - we get it. Those aren't opinions. Those are your old saws and your bugaboos. Try something else or I'm done.
I'm going to move on with my day. I don't know what I expect of you. It never changes.
I'll ask you for the final time: try and get through a post without being a dick and maybe we can get somewhere. For a guy who fancies himself as a jolly type, you have a horrible habit of instantly reverting to a crank and an asshole who just wants to reduce the only person who bothers talking to you to a stereotype he can handle, because he obviously can't handle anything else.
Try ideas or an actual argument, instead of figuring out which groups of people you don't like. This is all you do. It's where you always get to. It never takes more than a sentence or two. Occupy Wall Street, teachers unions, Code Pink, Farrakhan, Sharpton, Obama - we get it. Those aren't opinions. Those are your old saws and your bugaboos. Try something else or I'm done.
You're the guy that posted the inequality video.
You say education is the key. Fine.
Your own parties message seems counter productive.
It annoys you when I point that out. Still you don't deny it.
Now you could offer up an idea of your own and tell me what they could do better.
But I don't expect.
Nobody here does.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
There was a discussion about paying teachers much more money so the schools could compete with other businesses and Professions.
You agreed with that, if you say you didn't I'll call you a liar.
Or suffering from non age related dementia.
WSS
There was a discussion about paying teachers much more money so the schools could compete with other businesses and Professions.
You agreed with that, if you say you didn't I'll call you a liar.
Or suffering from non age related dementia.
WSS
Oooh, I just couldn't live with it if you called me a liar, Steve!
You just said I thought teacher pay should double or be "greatly increased." That's not what I think. Doubling teacher pay for, say, teachers here in California would mean paying them anywhere from $100,000-$180,000 a year. That'd be insane, and would bankrupt the state. So it's easy to laugh at you when you say that's my position.
Because you're a crank who doesn't know anything about the things he pretends to know about before getting to "I hate teachers unions" you don't know that discussions about merit pay usually involve small bonuses on the order of a few thousand dollars. Or you're talking about forgiving certain union requirements to attract STEM teachers, for instance. And that's what we're talking about. You're not going to make the teaching profession pay like the legal profession. You can only make it slightly more competitive. But yes, in some places that should be considered, because we know from the research that one of the things that does make a difference is teacher quality.
But again, you're back to trying to find some place where you can argue and be angry with me so you can avoid talking about anything interesting.
"I've found a small point where I think I'm right (even though I'm not) and maybe I can use that to call him a liar!"
It's not making for a good psychologically profile of you.
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I'm going to move on with my day. I don't know what I expect of you. It never changes.
I'll ask you for the final time: try and get through a post without being a dick and maybe we can get somewhere. For a guy who fancies himself as a jolly type, you have a horrible habit of instantly reverting to a crank and an asshole who just wants to reduce the only person who bothers talking to you to a stereotype he can handle, because he obviously can't handle anything else.
Try ideas or an actual argument, instead of figuring out which groups of people you don't like. This is all you do. It's where you always get to. It never takes more than a sentence or two. Occupy Wall Street, teachers unions, Code Pink, Farrakhan, Sharpton, Obama - we get it. Those aren't opinions. Those are your old saws and your bugaboos. Try something else or I'm done.
You're the guy that posted the inequality video.
You say education is the key. Fine.
Your own parties message seems counter productive.
It annoys you when I point that out. Still you don't deny it.
Now you could offer up an idea of your own and tell me what they could do better.
But I don't expect.
Nobody here does.
WSS
You're the guy that posted the inequality video.
You say education is the key. Fine.
Your own parties message seems counter productive.
It annoys you when I point that out. Still you don't deny it.
Now you could offer up an idea of your own and tell me what they could do better.
But I don't expect.
Nobody here does.
WSS
No, Steve, it annoys me when you don't know what the Democratic position is, and you never, ever do. You just have one or two sentences in bold that approximates them poorly.
Your "points" are the furthest thing from trenchant. Trust me.
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Here's part of the party's message right now: universal preschool. You want to talk about that? Do you know anything about it? I'm guessing not.
Something, something, teachers union.
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Feel free to enlighten me.
Enlighten us all.
Let me start off with 1 of my ideas.
And yes it's about your sacred cow the teachers union.
I think by and large people can teach high school with no more than an associates degree.
I say it's a talent based job not a degree based job.
It's a relatively easy job and doesn't require much of your time.
We could probably triple the amount of teachers in any system that, well, needs more teachers.
By hiring non union people who need a job that pays a lot less than a tenured teacher.
The sociological problems, that is United States versus other countries, I think will not be changed.
There isn't very much incentive for learning here.
WSS
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Universal preschool?
Well are we to assume it will be more effective then head start?
Would we be allowed to hire non union people to run these camps?
Basically it's babysitting but I figure it can't hurt.
WSS
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Feel free to enlighten me.
Enlighten us all.
Let me start off with 1 of my ideas.
And yes it's about your sacred cow the teachers union.
I think by and large people can teach high school with no more than an associates degree.
I say it's a talent based job not a degree based job.
It's a relatively easy job and doesn't require much of your time.
We could probably triple the amount of teachers in any system that, well, needs more teachers.
By hiring non union people who need a job that pays a lot less than a tenured teacher.
The sociological problems, that is United States versus other countries, I think will not be changed.
There isn't very much incentive for learning here.
WSS
Feel free to enlighten me.
Enlighten us all.
Let me start off with 1 of my ideas.
And yes it's about your sacred cow the teachers union.
I think by and large people can teach high school with no more than an associates degree.
I say it's a talent based job not a degree based job.
It's a relatively easy job and doesn't require much of your time.
We could probably triple the amount of teachers in any system that, well, needs more teachers.
By hiring non union people who need a job that pays a lot less than a tenured teacher.
The sociological problems, that is United States versus other countries, I think will not be changed.
There isn't very much incentive for learning here.
WSS
I think that's a really, really bad idea. Based on a fundamentally flawed argument - that just about anyone can teach. This is exactly what we're trying to move away from, not toward. Teacher quality matters, sometimes greatly. And the worse off the district, the more teachers matter.
It is not an easy job, nor does it require little of your time when school is in session. Those are both wildly off the mark. My wife, for instance, is a really good teacher. How did she become a good teacher? Sure, she has some natural talent for it. She also spent four year studying education as an undergrad, and then got her masters in education, then got qualified as a reading specialist, and then went back to school after that to learn how to teach younger children than the ones she studied in grad school. Because kids learn differently depending on their age. Brains development is different. And these are the skills and knowledge that make her a great teacher. She knows her profession. She knows theory. She knows child psychology.
You don't get that walking in off the street and making $20,000 a year.
And your idea that you could triple the amount of teachers by doing away with unions and paying them "a lot less" is ridiculous. You've got teachers in many areas making 30-40K. This is just an idea pulled out of your ass, and it's counterproductive.
You'd get lower teacher quality for sure, with greater turnover, with more people leaving the profession each year for jobs that paid better. Teaching would no longer be a career, with knowledge and experience gained over time. It'd become a low wage job that very few people would want, especially the type we want to attract.
Oh, this is just an awful idea, based on your assumption that just about anyone can teach. It's nonsense. Nothing of what we know about educational outcomes suggest you're right, and everything we do know suggests this would be a miserable failure.
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Universal preschool?
Well are we to assume it will be more effective then head start?
Would we be allowed to hire non union people to run these camps?
Basically it's babysitting but I figure it can't hurt.
WSS
Universal preschool?
Well are we to assume it will be more effective then head start?
Would we be allowed to hire non union people to run these camps?
Basically it's babysitting but I figure it can't hurt.
WSS
It needs to be more effective than Head Start, because Head Start isn't very effective. And if you want babysitting, spend money on day care. This isn't day care.
Lots of people work really, really hard trying to figure these problems out. It's proven to be really hard to boost scores, mostly because school is only a portion of a kid's day. So then you've often got to look beyond the school, too. Even stuff like lead abatement might be a better way to spend money than universal preschool. It's all very complicated. Frustrating even.
Which isn't to say you do nothing, but universal preschool might be too late at age four, and like Head Start it might not translate to any long term gains. In Head Start, the gains kids make - and they do make them - often get erased by the time the kid is 8 or 10. Some research suggests that the problem isn't Head Start but the school that comes after that, and that the kids don't maintain the gains they made in Head Start. But the sad reality remains that we spend $8 billion a year on Head Start programs and have little gains to show for them.
We know preschool makes a difference. The question is whether you can scale it out to the entire country, or if it's just going to make a difference in pockets where programs are really well run, and the teachers are exceptional.
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As for taxes, the current wealth distribution makes me unlikely to want to push for tax breaks that overwhelmingly - or exclusively - benefit the wealthy unless you can show that they're so inefficient or counterproductive that the taxes outweigh the benefits of the increased revenue/smaller deficits.
I don't believe that flat taxes or national sales taxes are more "fair" simply everyone would pay the same rate. That's one definition of fairness. Another would be that in a nation whose bills are larger than what it brings in, and with that spread expect to increase, the best places to raise revenue are likely at the top of the income spectrum where the changes to their way of life will be minimal, especially when compared to the lower ends of the spectrum.
Additionally, our lack of economic mobility is a real issue. There should be more American dream in our dream. Right now, we've been eclipsed by many other nations, where being born poor is less of an impediment to success than it is here.
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stop spending to meet revenue?
Spend less?
The tax more crap is stupid. Really, honestly stupid.
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If we are going to start tweaking the tax code, it needs to start with redefining taxable income. A lot of the "wealth" measured in the video/graph is untaxed. Moving the taxable income percentages around like we currently do just stirs up a blue or red hornets nest depending on which way the scale slides.
We all know the Warren Buffet & secretary story. There's the problem. Start there. Bush's tax cuts vs. Clinton's tax rates don't make a shit except for political posturing. Fix the problem.
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