No Assault Weapons Ban
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Well that's a major problem with governing by polls.
Personally I have no problem with background checks.
Unfortunately if they are to have any effect whatsoever the process is going to have to be more invasive than any of the privacy Hawks are going to be able to accept.
And that's on the right and left.
I don't suppose the 90 percent have stopped to think about what an effective background check would have to entail.
Wss
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Well, let's point out the obvious. An extensive background check is supposed to keep the unqualified from buying a gun.
So, why now, is the "we have to keep the information.." necessary? It served it's ALLEGED purpose, so get RID of the request.
It would come up the next time. We have computers, you libs.
So, why require the gov KEEPING the info?
So it can be used, that's why. They want to know where the guns are, and who has them.
Any other reason I may have missed on background check records kept by the gov?
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Cal I guess you are probably right that there are plenty of people who would like to have that information close at hand.
1 reason that doesn't bother me is that most likely only the most horrendous reasons for disqualification are going to show up anyway.
If someone has been convicted of beating his wife or some other violent crime or actually been admitted to asylum sure great, let that information be public.
The vast majority of wackos who shouldn't own a gun arent even in the system so...
WSS
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I'm fine with background checks.
Just throw the info out after it's used.
There is no reason to keep it unless it's for a bad, very dangerous to our 2nd Amendment reason.
That's why they aren't keeping them now. By popular demand.
The same for ammo. A background check for ammo would clog the system, and give
anti gunners the information they would use to intimidate ammo buyers.
Like, if you buy more than a hundred rounds in a month, you end up on the no fly list or something.
Meanwhile, we happily finally found .22 mag ammo at our local outdoor store.
They have a 500 round limit on those, less with other rounds. The supply is starting to bounce back.
That was in the morninig, about 9:45 - 10 o'clock, though.
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I'm fine with background checks.
Just throw the info out after it's used.
There is no reason to keep it unless it's for a bad, very dangerous to our 2nd Amendment reason.
That's why they aren't keeping them now. By popular demand.
The same for ammo. A background check for ammo would clog the system, and give
anti gunners the information they would use to intimidate ammo buyers.
Like, if you buy more than a hundred rounds in a month, you end up on the no fly list or something.
Meanwhile, we happily finally found .22 mag ammo at our local outdoor store.
They have a 500 round limit on those, less with other rounds. The supply is starting to bounce back.
That was in the morninig, about 9:45 - 10 o'clock, though.
I'm fine with background checks.
Just throw the info out after it's used.
There is no reason to keep it unless it's for a bad, very dangerous to our 2nd Amendment reason.
That's why they aren't keeping them now. By popular demand.
The same for ammo. A background check for ammo would clog the system, and give
anti gunners the information they would use to intimidate ammo buyers.
Like, if you buy more than a hundred rounds in a month, you end up on the no fly list or something.
Meanwhile, we happily finally found .22 mag ammo at our local outdoor store.
They have a 500 round limit on those, less with other rounds. The supply is starting to bounce back.
That was in the morninig, about 9:45 - 10 o'clock, though.
Intimidate ammo buyers? I thought the point of being armed is so you feel safe and powerful. I think this is the root cause of the gun control opposition. That the largest part of the enthusiasts are easily intimidated. Your totem makes you feel safe, I get it. It's a totally false sense of security, but I get it. It's sort of like standing on a fifteen foot ladder with half your body in the drop ceiling. Because it looks like there's something solid around you it lulls you into not realizing you're fifteen feet off the floor and if you fell you'd go right through it.
Nunboy produced some number that said you have a better chance of winning the lottery or getting hit by lightning or something than being killed with a gun, so I ask this: if its so unlikely that we don't need to take any precautions to protect children at school; then why is it so important that YOU be armed?
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Again, if you want a background check system that works, you have to allow law enforcement to keep the data about the checks. Otherwise, the law can't be enforced.
As for Steve's point, yes and no. This information is already compiled and used for the background checks the FBI currently does for licensed gun dealers. The new law would require that every gun sale use the same system. So, that information you talk about "privacy hawks" freaking out about is already compiled in the FBI system. So you can throw that point out.
As to what else they might decide might disqualify you from buying a gun - mental health and the like - there might be some new criteria that involve privacy concerns, but no one is proposing that yet. They're only proposing that the current system be applied to all purchases.
The stumbling block here is the notion that I'm sure Cal raised, where gun rights people imagine that this is the way the government is going to come steal your guns. This isn't the only concern, but this will be the crux of the NRA's push - that these are legal guns and they don't want to be in a government database just because they own them. Of course, they already are in a database because they own something legal (a car) but that's not going to stop them.
I'm sure you could write the law in such a way that accommodates their fears about gun confiscation, but I doubt that's going to change any votes. This is going to be a fight.
And one I suspect the NRA will win. And if not in the vote, they'll win it in the rule writing stage.
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I have no problem with strict backgrounds checks. I have had High Clearance level and have been background checked to near death.
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Again, if you want a background check system that works, you have to allow law enforcement to keep the data about the checks. Otherwise, the law can't be enforced. Heck
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I honestly don't understand why you say this. The enforcing of the law, is that prevention of purchase by unauthorized individuals is
the whole point of background checks.Law enforcement keeps the data.....why? To prevent any purchase of a gun by unauthorized....
wait, that is the purpose of the background check.
So, what does the "keeping of the info" accomplish? Nothing pertaining to the reason for background checks.
So...the uses of the data kept is.......to use it...how? Backdoor registration/location/names/addresses/confiscation.
A little legit reason for "keeping the data" ...please?
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My personal info was on a laptop that was stolen from a careless NASA employee that had the laptop in their car.
Now I have to monitor my shit for a while. Huge nuisance. All because I worked where I needed access to a NASA facility and other silly "clearances". My "data" should have been destroyed upon completion of the project (over 6 years ago)
Dumb fucking dickbags
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It's pretty simple. If you don't require a record to be kept there's no way to check if the check was ever done. The seller can simply say that he performed the check. No one has a record that you did or that you didn't.
Ex: Seller sells a gun to someone with a criminal record. Let's say he doesn't run a check because he wants the business. (Think liquor stores who don't check ID for the same reason.) Or say he did run a check but wants the business, so he still sells him the gun. Or he runs the check but it's a guy he knows, so he doesn't care. Now the goes out and shoots someone. Cops trace gun to seller's store, and ask the seller if he ran a background check. He says, "I sure did." End of story. There's no way for anyone to know.
Late word from the Hill is that Schumer and Manchin are trying to reach a deal with Coburn that allows for records of the checks to be kept on all commercial sales, but that all private sales will not be required to keep them.
Here's a way I hope they bridge the gap: make it so that there's a record of each check done kept in the FBI files. Also write the law so that the FBI can not run a check on those files for any other reason than a crime related to the specific gun in question, and after receiving approval from a judge. In other words, they've got to have "sufficient reason" or some other legal standard in order to access your file.
This way, if a crime is committed with a gun, the FBI can determine when the gun was bought and whether or not the seller performed their duty as required by law. If they did, and the check came up clean, then they performed their duty. If not, and the seller was not supposed to sell that gun, they should be face criminal penalties as well.
The whole point is to keep guns out of the hands of people who are not legally allowed to own a gun. Would universal background checks without record keeping be better than what we have now? Of course it would. Would it be the best system we could devise? Far from it. We'd be taking out the enforcement part.
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So, Heck, I believe you probably want this to make a difference, correct?
Do you believe the criteria as it stands right now is sufficient to make a background check meaningful?
The way I see it only convicted felons add those who have been actually committed to mental institutes would be left out.
That's not very reassuring.
I would imagine that every 1 of us here knows someone who we don't think should have a gun, am I wrong?
I'd imagine that almost none of them have a felony conviction or a commitment on the record.
If it were up to you what additional infringement do you think I should be in the search?
And I'm really not just baiting you here but if someone has committed a felony served their time and free is it constitutional to deny them any particular right?
WSS
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It's pretty simple. If you don't require a record to be kept there's no way to check if the check was ever done. The seller can simply say that he performed the check. No one has a record that you did or that you didn't. Heck
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A simple review of a gun dealer's records would show sales, and the number of gun sales would have to match
an accumulated number of background checks. See, accumulating the number of background checks is no future threat of
intimidation by the media (see NY Times), and is no threat to individuals by anti gun local or national politicians who openly..
and covertly, want to ban them. They do not need to keep the names, addresses, type of gun, etc to fix that problem, Heck.
The numbers don't match up, somebody gets their butts kicked. The problem with that is a corrupt gov (see Obamao's and Holder's INjustice Dept)...
could make the numbers not match on their side, and send all dealers relying on their attorneys to keep them out of jail.
Registration = direct threat of confiscation. And keeping record of individual background checks = registration.
Make private sales require a background check? See "prohibition".
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