Top 10 Greatest Browns Ever
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Who would be the Top 10 off all time not in the Hall of Fame??? I will take a shot of the top of my head
10. Brian Sipe
9. Chip Banks
8. Eric Turner
7. Jim Houston
6. Michael Dean Perry
5. Joe Thomas
4. Clay Matthews Jr
3. Dixon/ Minnefield
2. Gary Collins
1. Bernie Kosar
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Gone soft? lol... well someone has to argue...
I'll keep Hickerson, Newsome, Motley, Graham (duh), and Brown (double-duh).
I'll lose Lavelli, Willis, Kosar, Kelly and Groza, and substitute... in no particular order...
Jerry Sherk
Had it not been for injury, IMO Jerry would be widely considered the greatest D-lineman the Browns have ever had. I already consider him to be. For four years in the middle of his career he dominated the trenches like. no Brown, and few players on any team, I've seen.
Paul Warfield
Most gifted and graceful WR to ever suit up for us. Not his fault that we pissed him away to draft... ugh... Mike Phipps.
Clay Mathews, Jr.
Our impact player at LB for more years than any other player at any position. Prolly my biggest reach here, but I loved the guy, and his longevity is unparalleled. Also part of the best bloodline in NFL history.
Joe Thomas
Already a lock for first ballot induction, Joe belongs on the short list of elite LT's to ever play in the league, so he certainly belongs on this list.
Thom Darden
The career leader in interceptions (45) on a team with more than a few great DB's in their history. And one of the hardest hitting Safeties to ever play. I was tempted to opt for Hanford Dixon, but the INT's give Thom my nod.
You're out of your mind, respectfully, to put any of those guys but especially Joe Thomas over Kosar. Kosar was the only reason the browns had ANY success in my whole entire life. What impact has Joe Thomas made? None, because a LT is worthless without a quarterback to protect.
You're out of your mind, respectfully, to put any of those guys but especially Joe Thomas over Kosar. Kosar was the only reason the browns had ANY success in my whole entire life. What impact has Joe Thomas made? None, because a LT is worthless without a quarterback to protect.
I feel the respect...
It's probably owed more to my age than my wisdom since I clearly remember a Browns era with more success than you do.Make a list of beloved Browns and Bernie is a class by himself.
Make a list of position impact on a team, and QB is far a away #1.
But this is a list of "greatest" Browns.
When you are the best in the league at your postion in your era, or even a piece of your era, that is greatness. Joe is; Bernie never was.
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You're out of your mind, respectfully, to put any of those guys but especially Joe Thomas over Kosar. Kosar was the only reason the browns had ANY success in my whole entire life. What impact has Joe Thomas made? None, because a LT is worthless without a quarterback to protect.
I feel the respect...
It's probably owed more to my age than my wisdom since I clearly remember a Browns era with more success than you do.Make a list of beloved Browns and Bernie is a class by himself.
Make a list of position impact on a team, and QB is far a away #1.
But this is a list of "greatest" Browns.
When you are the best in the league at your postion in your era, or even a piece of your era, that is greatness. Joe is; Bernie never was.
I feel the respect...
It's probably owed more to my age than my wisdom since I clearly remember a Browns era with more success than you do.Make a list of beloved Browns and Bernie is a class by himself.
Make a list of position impact on a team, and QB is far a away #1.
But this is a list of "greatest" Browns.
When you are the best in the league at your postion in your era, or even a piece of your era, that is greatness. Joe is; Bernie never was.
excellent point. I hope we don't get booted off the board for this blasphemy...
WSS
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Is the greatest Brown then, solely dependant on hall of fame status? A hall of fame lineman can easily fail to be more worthwhile to a team than an above average quarterback who was not the best. I would trade Joe Thomas right this second to the Steelers even to have an updated version of Kosar and Slaughter neither of which are in the hall of fame.
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can't argue with anyone on your list. there are so many other great players and fan favorites that we could extend that list to at least 25.
can't argue with anyone on your list. there are so many other great players and fan favorites that we could extend that list to at least 25.
You could argue that Paul Warfield and Len Ford and Frank Gatski should be in the top 10....but the original list is still a good list.
Someday, one day it may be that JT should be on the list once his career is over....as he probably measures up to any offensive lineman the Browns have ever had.
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Per the PFR Career Average statistic...which is supposed to measure a player's overall production, the best Non Hall of Famers to play for the Browns are as follows. The number in front of their name represents their overall position as a Browns player (any gaps in the numbering means that a Hall of Fame player filled that gap):
#2 Clay Matthews
#5 Dick Shafrath
#7 Doug Dieken
#10 Walt Michaels
#12 Bob Gain
#14 Jim Houston
#15 Brian Sipe
#16 Clarence Scott
#17 Walter Johnson
#18 Vince Costello
#19 Hanford Dixon
#20 Galen Fiss
#21 Greg Pruitt
#22 Cody Risien
#23 Frank Ryan
#24 Don Colo
#25 Michael Dean Perry
#27 Jerry Sherk
#28 Paul Wiggin
#29 Milt Morin
#30 Ray Renfro
#31 Gary Collins
#32 Bernie Kosar
#33 Warren Lahr
#34 Jim Ray Smith
#35 Frank Minniefield
(the HOFers that fill the gaps are: Jim Brown, Groza, Hickerson, Ford, Newsome, Kelley, Graham, MacCormack, Gatski)
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Quick trivia. How many Browns are in the HOF vs. how many Steelers
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24-20 Browns take away Coaches and Owners it is 22-16 Browns
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the problem with this topic is are we talking stats or are we talking fan faves who people of certain ages watched and reverred them.
sipe, warfield, newsome, kelly and even dharden when i first started watching.
hoard, turner, byner, mack, kosar the kid from michagan DA, and that's just on offense.
of course this is from ,y mindset seeing them play.......
not to say there weren't 10 HOFs in front of these guys.
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Gone soft? lol... well someone has to argue...
I'll keep Hickerson, Newsome, Motley, Graham (duh), and Brown (double-duh).
I'll lose Lavelli, Willis, Kosar, Kelly and Groza, and substitute... in no particular order...
Jerry Sherk
Had it not been for injury, IMO Jerry would be widely considered the greatest D-lineman the Browns have ever had. I already consider him to be. For four years in the middle of his career he dominated the trenches like. no Brown, and few players on any team, I've seen.
Paul Warfield
Most gifted and graceful WR to ever suit up for us. Not his fault that we pissed him away to draft... ugh... Mike Phipps.
Clay Mathews, Jr.
Our impact player at LB for more years than any other player at any position. Prolly my biggest reach here, but I loved the guy, and his longevity is unparalleled. Also part of the best bloodline in NFL history.
Joe Thomas
Already a lock for first ballot induction, Joe belongs on the short list of elite LT's to ever play in the league, so he certainly belongs on this list.
Thom Darden
The career leader in interceptions (45) on a team with more than a few great DB's in their history. And one of the hardest hitting Safeties to ever play. I was tempted to opt for Hanford Dixon, but the INT's give Thom my nod.
You're out of your mind, respectfully, to put any of those guys but especially Joe Thomas over Kosar. Kosar was the only reason the browns had ANY success in my whole entire life. What impact has Joe Thomas made? None, because a LT is worthless without a quarterback to protect.
You're out of your mind, respectfully, to put any of those guys but especially Joe Thomas over Kosar. Kosar was the only reason the browns had ANY success in my whole entire life. What impact has Joe Thomas made? None, because a LT is worthless without a quarterback to protect.
Ask Tim Couch how worthless a LT is.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
You're out of your mind, respectfully, to put any of those guys but especially Joe Thomas over Kosar. Kosar was the only reason the browns had ANY success in my whole entire life. What impact has Joe Thomas made? None, because a LT is worthless without a quarterback to protect.
Ask Tim Couch how worthless a LT is.
Ask Tim Couch how worthless a LT is.
or how worthless his was and how important an Oline IS.
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You're out of your mind, respectfully, to put any of those guys but especially Joe Thomas over Kosar. Kosar was the only reason the browns had ANY success in my whole entire life. What impact has Joe Thomas made? None, because a LT is worthless without a quarterback to protect.
Ask Tim Couch how worthless a LT is.
Ask Tim Couch how worthless a LT is.
Ask The Browns fanbase how much if a difference our LT makes. Go ahead, ask. Because with a hof LT like Joe Thomas we should be in the playoffs right? Right?
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Quick trivia. How many Browns are in the HOF vs. how many Steelers
The PFHOF essentially divides HOFers into 3 statuses: Players, coaches/admin/owners, and "cup of coffee" guys.
The Steelers have more in both players and coaches/owners and the same in "cup of coffee guys"
Browns "Primary Players" total 15:
Jim Brown
Joe D.
Ford
Gatski
Otto
Groza
Hickerson
Kelley
McCormack
Mitchell
Motley
Ozzie
Warfield
Willis
Paul Brown is the only coach/admin/owner in the HOF for the Browns
Cuppa coffee guys:
Doug Atkins, Willie Davis, Len Dawson, Henry Jordan, Tommy McDonald
Steeler "Primary Players in HOF are 17:
Blount
Bradshaw
Jack Butler
D. Dawson
Bill Dudley
Greene
Ham
Franco
John Henry Johnson
Walt Keisling
Lambert
Bobby Layne
Stallworth
Stautner
Swann
Webster
Ron Woodson
Coaches/owners: Noll, Art Rooney, Dan Rooney
Cuppa Coffee guys: Bert Bell, Len Dawson, Cal Hubbard, Johnny Blood McNally, Marion Motley
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Figure this out: in the future one of the "Cleveland Browns" to be elected into the HOF will be Bill Belichick. Five years as Browns HC....4 of them losing seasons.
I guess the question is: should we rightfully claim him?
(my answer: only in the way we "claim" Len Dawson, Willie Davis, Henry Jordan etc.)
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Another, perhaps better question: Who is the next Cleveland Brown that should be in the HOF? Lets put Belichick aside and just go for a "true" Cleveland Brown.
Personally, I think that it should/could be Dick Shafrath. He actually had more Pro Bowls and other honors than did his running mate Gene Hickerson.
I would hate to think of the fact that the next Cleveland Brown would be Joe Thomas. I think he has about 10 more years in him, plus the 5 year wait. That would suck to have to wait that long.
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Another, perhaps better question: Who is the next Cleveland Brown that should be in the HOF? Lets put Belichick aside and just go for a "true" Cleveland Brown.
Personally, I think that it should/could be Dick Shafrath. He actually had more Pro Bowls and other honors than did his running mate Gene Hickerson.
I would hate to think of the fact that the next Cleveland Brown would be Joe Thomas. I think he has about 10 more years in him, plus the 5 year wait. That would suck to have to wait that long.
Another, perhaps better question: Who is the next Cleveland Brown that should be in the HOF? Lets put Belichick aside and just go for a "true" Cleveland Brown.
Personally, I think that it should/could be Dick Shafrath. He actually had more Pro Bowls and other honors than did his running mate Gene Hickerson.
I would hate to think of the fact that the next Cleveland Brown would be Joe Thomas. I think he has about 10 more years in him, plus the 5 year wait. That would suck to have to wait that long.
Claim Bill B.? No... he belongs to the Pats. Our claiming him would be worse than Putin stealing Kraft's SB ring. TBH not sure we should claim DeLamielleure since he was a Bill for 5 of his 6 Pro-Bowls and returned to Bills to retire as a Bill.
I well remember Dick Schafrath... damn good OT. But the Browns' sweep featured the Guards, and Hickerson was the man.
That said, I'd be happy for Schafrath should he be selected, but another inductee from 50 years ago would be bitter sweet at best.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Another, perhaps better question: Who is the next Cleveland Brown that should be in the HOF? Lets put Belichick aside and just go for a "true" Cleveland Brown.
Personally, I think that it should/could be Dick Shafrath. He actually had more Pro Bowls and other honors than did his running mate Gene Hickerson.
I would hate to think of the fact that the next Cleveland Brown would be Joe Thomas. I think he has about 10 more years in him, plus the 5 year wait. That would suck to have to wait that long.
Claim Bill B.? No... he belongs to the Pats. Our claiming him would be worse than Putin stealing Kraft's SB ring. TBH not sure we should claim DeLamielleure since he was a Bill for 5 of his 6 Pro-Bowls and returned to Bills to retire as a Bill.
I well remember Dick Schafrath... damn good OT. But the Browns' sweep featured the Guards, and Hickerson was the man.
That said, I'd be happy for Schafrath should he be selected, but another inductee from 50 years ago would be bitter sweet at best.
Claim Bill B.? No... he belongs to the Pats. Our claiming him would be worse than Putin stealing Kraft's SB ring. TBH not sure we should claim DeLamielleure since he was a Bill for 5 of his 6 Pro-Bowls and returned to Bills to retire as a Bill.
I well remember Dick Schafrath... damn good OT. But the Browns' sweep featured the Guards, and Hickerson was the man.
That said, I'd be happy for Schafrath should he be selected, but another inductee from 50 years ago would be bitter sweet at best.
I have no problem if a Browns player of 50 years ago is inducted. I mean, this guy was a winner. Hell, they just inducted a Steelers DB from the 50s...Jack Butler....and that team did nothing but lose.
The committee felt he was deserving, but hell, was he really better than a guy like Warren Lahr, his contemporary who played on Browns championship teams? We shall see.
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Jack Butler played 9 years...1951-1959. Had 52 ints. for 827 return yds and 4 TDs. Four Pro Bowl selections
His contemporaries on the Browns:
Warren Lahr: 11 years, 1949-1959. 44 Ints 562 return yds and 5 TDs. One Pro Bowl
Don Paul: 10 years 1950-1959. 34 ints, 598 return yds, 1 TD. 4 Pro Bowls.
The Browns had an outstanding defensive backfield. The Steelers didn't....but they had one outstanding guy. So he got in. So be it.
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