The O-Line Continued Failure at Opening Up Running Lanes

Sheepdog

I didn't watch the whole game, as I'm only concerned with the starters and 2nd stringers, but I felt that the RBs performed pretty well. We did go up against one of the better D-lines in the league and Richardson ran 6 times for 33 yards while Lewis ran 5 times for 33 yards before breaking his leg. You can practice a new scheme all day long but you won't be able to actually implement it until you play against someone else besides your own defense.

I do expect a lot more from the Browns O-line and RBs next week against the Colts which have a significantly weaker D-line compared to the Lions.

miktoxic

@soju said:

This has been a problem for as long as I can remember. Is this something that has to do with schemes, personel, or what?

I routinely see other NFL teams create lanes and open up spaces for their running backs but we just can't seem to do this.

What's the deal?

i agree, when it comes to running between the tackles. when they got outside and the line pulled to one side or the other the RBs faired much better.

i don't think we've had a legit up the middle runner since hillis.

remember the days of mack and byner? the browns lived on running the ball between the tackles. i don't know if it's the scheme or weak guard play. prob the latter.

DieHardBrownsFan

It can' be the Oline fault. Remember, Olineman are a dime a dozen.

calfoxwc

Defenses are used to the Browns not having a consistent passing attack. So, they

have been going all in to stop the run, and the Browns' offense was done.

And Detroit's defense is mean business, with both Fairley and Suh playing like

they were playing against a hated rival in the superbowl. And they still lost big. I believe

I saw Fairly in there after the rest of the starters were out.

But, it's only preseason, and both sides of the ball won't show much until later.

The injuries are terrible. Weeden was great, and he is the starter. Campbell didn't have

much zip, and he had trouble making decisions - it on was his second look to Lewis when

he finally threw the ball to him, I think Lewis got hurt on that play.

Bad things always happen when parts of the oline is overmatched. I don't know how Greco got

completely run over, but that's a tough play - Pinkston got hurt. dammit.

thenew23

It takes time to develop a "between the tackles" running game as the game develops. Opposing defenses KNOW we are going to run a couple up the middle early in the game and will be prepared to stop it. TRich did exactly what you need to do by bouncing a couple outside and making nice gains out of nothing. Once he makes a couple nice runs, and you hit a couple nice throws, it softens up the D and you take advantage of power running later in the game. Remember watching Hardesty play well in the 3rd quarter of games last year...

In my opinion, going up against such a strong front 4 was a great test and you saw our guys get a push throughout the first 4 drives (even after Pinkston went down). I saw no problem with run blocking...

Soju

@thenew23 said:

It takes time to develop a "between the tackles" running game as the game develops. Opposing defenses KNOW we are going to run a couple up the middle early in the game and will be prepared to stop it. TRich did exactly what you need to do by bouncing a couple outside and making nice gains out of nothing. Once he makes a couple nice runs, and you hit a couple nice throws, it softens up the D and you take advantage of power running later in the game. Remember watching Hardesty play well in the 3rd quarter of games last year...

In my opinion, going up against such a strong front 4 was a great test and you saw our guys get a push throughout the first 4 drives (even after Pinkston went down). I saw no problem with run blocking...

so you subscribe to the passing to set up the running game. I do too.

thenew23

@soju said:
so you subscribe to the passing to set up the running game. I do too.

That depends on the defense's game planning. The Lions showed us that they wanted to stop the run and pressure the QB and would give up the intermediate passing game in order to do so. In that case, you take what you're given and it gives you more options. If a D gameplans to stop the passing game, then you have to "run to set up the pass." You got to have balance and take what the D gives you... then adjust

Either way, no matter who is running or blocking, you can't expect to line up and run the ball right up the middle and be successful without having some viable threats in the passing game.

listercat

You can never...ever have enough quality depth at o-line

never....really concerned about the line at this point

VaporTrail

Exactly. I have no idea who the next man up is now. Our backup OLine, outside of Gilkey, looked like shit.

thenew23

Pinkston could be back for the opener. Lauvao should only miss 2 games. Gilkey did fine when he was in, let's just hope he can stay healthy...

nickers

well..I dont want to lessen the importance of the running game...but really...how many teams out there are really good "between the tackle rushing teams" when its become a QB driven league...Running the ball is almost becomming an after thought in todays offenses..

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@nickers said:
well..I dont want to lessen the importance of the running game...but really...how many teams out there are really good "between the tackle rushing teams" when its become a QB driven league...Running the ball is almost becomming an after thought in todays offenses..

Check the run/pass ratio of the two Super Bowl teams and then get back to me.

Vagitron

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:
Check the run/pass ratio of the two Super Bowl teams and then get back to me.

Only the Browns used a top 5 draft pick when they selected Richardson. Weeden is still a unproven commodity. If the Browns are going to win games they're going to need Richardson to run the rock. Although who knows if this regime would have even drafted Richardson if they could go back and draft at that spot.

nickers

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:
Check the run/pass ratio of the two Super Bowl teams and then get back to me.

I dont need to...its pretty simple

Aaron Rodgers

Terry Bradshaw

Joe Montana

Tom Brady

Peyton and Eli Manning...

Get the picture?..whats Adrian Peterson done but get hurt every year...

nickers

@vagitron said:

Only the Browns used a top 5 draft pick when they selected Richardson. Weeden is still a unproven commodity. If the Browns are going to win games they're going to need Richardson to run the rock. Although who knows if this regime would have even drafted Richardson if they could go back and draft at that spot.

So whats your point Jr...as if you ever made one here..

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@nickers said:

I dont need to...its pretty simple

Aaron Rodgers

Terry Bradshaw

Joe Montana

Tom Brady

Peyton and Eli Manning...

Get the picture?..whats Adrian Peterson done but get hurt every year...

And yet you still haven't looked up the ratios.

I get it. Because once you do, you'll have no argument. You'll just continue to mutter "buh Tom Brady Peyton manning" until someone agrees with you.

Keep on being an ignorant asshole, it suits you very well.

Tour2ma

TCPO, do you have any clue as to how to have a discussion?

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On Gilkey... let's not get delusional... at best he played like a small college rookie making the leap to the NFL... especially at right guard. Prolly graded out a "C-" on that side where he did mostly face Suh. But seeing as how Suh blew up nearly everyone he played across from in the game, including Pinky and Joe Thomas, it could have been a lot worse. Once he moved to left guard, Gilkey looked much more comfy... even made a nice adjustment pulling on a trap play. Of course that was against second team D.

Had to say "Suh blew up nearly everyone" above because of one O-lineman... Alex Mack. Mack played a great game and came very close to "handling" both Suh and Fairly. It mattered not who was a cross from him. There's a rock in the middle of our line.

@soju said:
This has been a problem for as long as I can remember. Is this something that has to do with schemes, personnel, or what?

I've been a little puzzled here as well. "Schemes" seems to be the operative word. Week 1 we looked like a pure zone blocking team; week 2 we looked to take a classic, pull and trap, power approach. It may be Norv and company are trying to see which suits us. It seemed to me like the latter... which sprang a couple nice runs (TR's sweep left and Lewis' off tackle left).

@vaportrail said:
Exactly. I have no idea who the next man up is now. Our backup OLine, outside of Gilkey, looked like shit.

Not true... Hauptmann played decent and Butler had another good game. Cave and Shaw... not so much.

Tour2ma

Oh... and on the TR sweep I mentioned... Little threw a great crackback block...

I just wish Thomas (who pulled and led) would have looked inside and seen Suh coming. Might have been a decleater...

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@tour2ma said:

TCPO, do you have any clue as to how to have a discussion?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Gilkey... let's not get delusional... at best he played like a small college rookie making the leap to the NFL... especially at right guard. Prolly graded out a "C-" on that side where he did mostly face Suh. But seeing as how Suh blew up nearly everyone he played across from in the game, including Pinky and Joe Thomas, it could have been a lot worse. Once he moved to left guard, Gilkey looked much more comfy... even made a nice adjustment pulling on a trap play. Of course that was against second team D.

Had to say "Suh blew up nearly everyone" above because of one O-lineman... Alex Mack. Mack played a great game and came very close to "handling" both Suh and Fairly. It mattered not who was a cross from him. There's a rock in the middle of our line.

I've been a little puzzled here as well. "Schemes" seems to be the operative word. Week 1 we looked like a pure zone blocking team; week 2 we looked to take a classic, pull and trap, power approach. It may be Norv and company are trying to see which suits us. It seemed to me like the latter... which sprang a couple nice runs (TR's sweep left and Lewis' off tackle left).

Not true... Hauptmann played decent and Butler had another good game. Cave and Shaw... not so much.

After being on this forum for the past couple of years, there's only a few people I give the benefit of the doubt to as far as being able to hold rational conversation.

He's not one of them.

At this point, I just jump straight to the insults and skip the five-ten posts of facts that he'll callously disregard.

Vagitron

@nickers said:

I dont need to...its pretty simple

Aaron Rodgers

Terry Bradshaw

Joe Montana

Tom Brady

Peyton and Eli Manning...

Get the picture?..whats Adrian Peterson done but get hurt every year...

Besides carry the Vikings? Oh absolutely nothing. I'm convinced you don't even watch football. My point above was also pretty clear. The Browns either run the football and run it well or lose even more games. You don't invest a top 5 draft pick in a running back to not run the ball effecitvely, so you better hope those running lanes open up. HOWEVER when it all boils down it's the preseason AND my friends the Preseason means jack for what's in store when the regular season begins.