TRICH traded to colts
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I appreciate (sincerely) the insightful comments, even if I don't necessarily agree with each detail of them. I do, however, think that there is a little bit of self-soothing and possibly a little anti-Trent bias going on here. If this was a good trade for both sides, wouldn't some of that sentiment be showing up in the media? The vast majority of what I'm hearing and have heard are shock, disbelief, and confusion. I've heard plenty of non-Browns people say something to the effect of "What in the world are the Browns thinking?!" I've not heard a single report where someone said, "Man, the Browns really got a first round pick for Richardson? Score! They made out like bandits!" Response to this trade hasn't been even and, to me, that's one indication among others that it was not an even trade.
Now, are the experts always right? Nope. Is public opinion always right? Nope. COULD it work out in the Browns favor? Sure. But I wouldn't say that it's difficult to understand why some Browns fans (and not under-informed ones who just want their jersey money back) might not appreciate this as a "good trade" for the Browns.
The media "experts" are idiots.
I sincerely do understand the feeling of a lost season. I had Saban bail on us, Ricky retire on us, watched our management team pick Culpepper over Brees, and dealt with Sparano for a few years.
Things get better. Stuff happens (like, say, your arch-rival hiring Sparano as an offensive coordinator).
Hang tight.
The media "experts" are idiots.
I sincerely do understand the feeling of a lost season. I had Saban bail on us, Ricky retire on us, watched our management team pick Culpepper over Brees, and dealt with Sparano for a few years.
Things get better. Stuff happens (like, say, your arch-rival hiring Sparano as an offensive coordinator).
Hang tight.
dude that offensive coordinator now with the jets is going to beat you twice this year.
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Here's a question: Did the new management bring new scouts/evaluators with them? Because, to me, a HUGE part of the Browns' inability to draft properly, for YEARS now, has been an inability to properly identify talent. So, as I'm trying to look forward to this next draft now, I have to HOPE that the guys who are looking at the players to be picked are somehow HUGELY better than what we've had so far. (I do know that HCs and coordinators and management are a large part of the decision making, but there's gotta be someone at the more preliminary levels, right?)
Here's a question: Did the new management bring new scouts/evaluators with them? Because, to me, a HUGE part of the Browns' inability to draft properly, for YEARS now, has been an inability to properly identify talent. So, as I'm trying to look forward to this next draft now, I have to HOPE that the guys who are looking at the players to be picked are somehow HUGELY better than what we've had so far. (I do know that HCs and coordinators and management are a large part of the decision making, but there's gotta be someone at the more preliminary levels, right?)
Yes.
This last Draft was the last Scouted by the previous Regime's Scouts.
This FO is using all new Scouts at this point.
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I appreciate (sincerely) the insightful comments, even if I don't necessarily agree with each detail of them. I do, however, think that there is a little bit of self-soothing and possibly a little anti-Trent bias going on here. If this was a good trade for both sides, wouldn't some of that sentiment be showing up in the media? The vast majority of what I'm hearing and have heard are shock, disbelief, and confusion. I've heard plenty of non-Browns people say something to the effect of "What in the world are the Browns thinking?!" I've not heard a single report where someone said, "Man, the Browns really got a first round pick for Richardson? Score! They made out like bandits!" Response to this trade hasn't been even and, to me, that's one indication among others that it was not an even trade.
Now, are the experts always right? Nope. Is public opinion always right? Nope. COULD it work out in the Browns favor? Sure. But I wouldn't say that it's difficult to understand why some Browns fans (and not under-informed ones who just want their jersey money back) might not appreciate this as a "good trade" for the Browns.
I have seen posts elsewhere where Browns fans are shocked and delighted that we actually got a 1st round pick for Trent.
I've also seen the total shock and despair from this trade.
All I can say, is that out of 17 games he's played for us, I've never seen him break a really long one from scrimmage.
Who's fault is that, OL or Trent ?
I'd say the OL, but I've seen other RB's in similar circumstances break that occasional long one.
Just something to think about.
I have seen posts elsewhere where Browns fans are shocked and delighted that we actually got a 1st round pick for Trent.
I've also seen the total shock and despair from this trade.
All I can say, is that out of 17 games he's played for us, I've never seen him break a really long one from scrimmage.
Who's fault is that, OL or Trent ?
I'd say the OL, but I've seen other RB's in similar circumstances break that occasional long one.
Just something to think about.
I never really expected him to break a really long run. He's not really that sort of back, is he?
I just saw Banner on television. He says he completely understands the criticism and skepticism for now. His hope is that it will eventually be proven wrong. I respect and appreciate that he made the statement, but my feeling is that you don't make that statement if you think everyone is on-board with it. So, there is an official acknowledgement that the trade may not look that great from the Browns end.
The idea, then, is "I realize that this looks a little shaky, but just trust me on this, I have an idea." Which is fine, except that I get tired of hearing it year after year. At some point, I'd like people to stop having new ideas and start finding ways to make the team work without starting over from scratch AGAIN (and then failing, AGAIN). I kind of feel like it's a maneuver to buy time instead of prioritizing the improvement of the team. "If I claim that NOTHING was right when I got here, then I can scrap at least one season and claim its not my fault." Instead, I'd like for once for someone to come in and say, "Okay, a lot of this is junk BUT, there's this and that and this... that I think I can work with if I add a few things."
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So. Greg Little for starting RB?
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What would you do if you inherited a 4-12 team and by the new season at 0-2 determined that your QB was nothing special and now badly injured, and your star RB was pretty average, slow to the hole, and often injured? It sounds pretty grim. So make some trades, pick up draft choices and start over. Sounds like a plan.
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It stings because he was such a wasted pick and we could have helped the team in another way as opposed to just having a guy for a little over a season.
In all honesty, where we drafted Trent aside (and the stupid trade that came with it), how often do you get a first round pick for a running back that averages less than 4 yards per carry and can't break 1000 yards rushing in a single 16 game season? I know everyone wants more, but you have to be realistic with his actual production in the NFL. I know he had ten touchdowns, but those weren't really any long runs, mostly just goal line touchdowns.
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What would you do if you inherited a 4-12 team and by the new season at 0-2 determined that your QB was nothing special and now badly injured, and your star RB was pretty average, slow to the hole, and often injured? It sounds pretty grim. So make some trades, pick up draft choices and start over. Sounds like a plan.
What would you do if you inherited a 4-12 team and by the new season at 0-2 determined that your QB was nothing special and now badly injured, and your star RB was pretty average, slow to the hole, and often injured? It sounds pretty grim. So make some trades, pick up draft choices and start over. Sounds like a plan.
I would be asking myself why, as a candidate to be a HC for a professional football team, I didn't realize that before I got there.
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I have seen posts elsewhere where Browns fans are shocked and delighted that we actually got a 1st round pick for Trent.
I've also seen the total shock and despair from this trade.
All I can say, is that out of 17 games he's played for us, I've never seen him break a really long one from scrimmage.
Who's fault is that, OL or Trent ?
I'd say the OL, but I've seen other RB's in similar circumstances break that occasional long one.
Just something to think about.
I never really expected him to break a really long run. He's not really that sort of back, is he?
I just saw Banner on television. He says he completely understands the criticism and skepticism for now. His hope is that it will eventually be proven wrong. I respect and appreciate that he made the statement, but my feeling is that you don't make that statement if you think everyone is on-board with it. So, there is an official acknowledgement that the trade may not look that great from the Browns end.
The idea, then, is "I realize that this looks a little shaky, but just trust me on this, I have an idea." Which is fine, except that I get tired of hearing it year after year. At some point, I'd like people to stop having new ideas and start finding ways to make the team work without starting over from scratch AGAIN (and then failing, AGAIN). I kind of feel like it's a maneuver to buy time instead of prioritizing the improvement of the team. "If I claim that NOTHING was right when I got here, then I can scrap at least one season and claim its not my fault." Instead, I'd like for once for someone to come in and say, "Okay, a lot of this is junk BUT, there's this and that and this... that I think I can work with if I add a few things."
I never really expected him to break a really long run. He's not really that sort of back, is he?
I just saw Banner on television. He says he completely understands the criticism and skepticism for now. His hope is that it will eventually be proven wrong. I respect and appreciate that he made the statement, but my feeling is that you don't make that statement if you think everyone is on-board with it. So, there is an official acknowledgement that the trade may not look that great from the Browns end.
The idea, then, is "I realize that this looks a little shaky, but just trust me on this, I have an idea." Which is fine, except that I get tired of hearing it year after year. At some point, I'd like people to stop having new ideas and start finding ways to make the team work without starting over from scratch AGAIN (and then failing, AGAIN). I kind of feel like it's a maneuver to buy time instead of prioritizing the improvement of the team. "If I claim that NOTHING was right when I got here, then I can scrap at least one season and claim its not my fault." Instead, I'd like for once for someone to come in and say, "Okay, a lot of this is junk BUT, there's this and that and this... that I think I can work with if I add a few things."
Oh, if he wasn't supposed to be able to break the long run, then he we definitely WAY over paid for him.
A #3 pick RB should be able to beat 7/8/9 in the box and bust through the Secondary.
Trent pretty much did this in College . . . but that was College, this is the NFL.
Shelf life for an NFL RB isn't all that long these days either with all the punishment deal/take.
I'm going to keep an eye on Trent out of curiosity more than anything else, but it should be interesting.
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What would you do if you inherited a 4-12 team and by the new season at 0-2 determined that your QB was nothing special and now badly injured, and your star RB was pretty average, slow to the hole, and often injured? It sounds pretty grim. So make some trades, pick up draft choices and start over. Sounds like a plan.
I would be asking myself why, as a candidate to be a HC for a professional football team, I didn't realize that before I got there.
I would be asking myself why, as a candidate to be a HC for a professional football team, I didn't realize that before I got there.
Chud wanted to come home and Coach his Hometown favorite Team - that's the biggie.
Until you actually get your hands in the nuts and bolts, it's not always easy to see what you've got.
I think that's probably a part of it too - he needed to see what he could salvage with the changes in schemes.
So far, it looks like the D is coming along well.
The O has turned into an unexpected nightmare though if you ask me.
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It stings because he was such a wasted pick and we could have helped the team in another way as opposed to just having a guy for a little over a season.
In all honesty, where we drafted Trent aside (and the stupid trade that came with it), how often do you get a first round pick for a running back that averages less than 4 yards per carry and can't break 1000 yards rushing in a single 16 game season? I know everyone wants more, but you have to be realistic with his actual production in the NFL. I know he had ten touchdowns, but those weren't really any long runs, mostly just goal line touchdowns.
It stings because he was such a wasted pick and we could have helped the team in another way as opposed to just having a guy for a little over a season.
In all honesty, where we drafted Trent aside (and the stupid trade that came with it), how often do you get a first round pick for a running back that averages less than 4 yards per carry and can't break 1000 yards rushing in a single 16 game season? I know everyone wants more, but you have to be realistic with his actual production in the NFL. I know he had ten touchdowns, but those weren't really any long runs, mostly just goal line touchdowns.
It's not that everyone WANTS more, though. You're making it sound like Browns fans WANT more simply because they are Browns fans and everyone always wants more. The TRUTH is that people outside of the situation, with no stake on the Browns side, think that it was an awfully low price for him.
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I appreciate (sincerely) the insightful comments, even if I don't necessarily agree with each detail of them. I do, however, think that there is a little bit of self-soothing and possibly a little anti-Trent bias going on here. If this was a good trade for both sides, wouldn't some of that sentiment be showing up in the media? The vast majority of what I'm hearing and have heard are shock, disbelief, and confusion. I've heard plenty of non-Browns people say something to the effect of "What in the world are the Browns thinking?!" I've not heard a single report where someone said, "Man, the Browns really got a first round pick for Richardson? Score! They made out like bandits!" Response to this trade hasn't been even and, to me, that's one indication among others that it was not an even trade.
Now, are the experts always right? Nope. Is public opinion always right? Nope. COULD it work out in the Browns favor? Sure. But I wouldn't say that it's difficult to understand why some Browns fans (and not under-informed ones who just want their jersey money back) might not appreciate this as a "good trade" for the Browns.
I appreciate (sincerely) the insightful comments, even if I don't necessarily agree with each detail of them. I do, however, think that there is a little bit of self-soothing and possibly a little anti-Trent bias going on here. If this was a good trade for both sides, wouldn't some of that sentiment be showing up in the media? The vast majority of what I'm hearing and have heard are shock, disbelief, and confusion. I've heard plenty of non-Browns people say something to the effect of "What in the world are the Browns thinking?!" I've not heard a single report where someone said, "Man, the Browns really got a first round pick for Richardson? Score! They made out like bandits!" Response to this trade hasn't been even and, to me, that's one indication among others that it was not an even trade.
Now, are the experts always right? Nope. Is public opinion always right? Nope. COULD it work out in the Browns favor? Sure. But I wouldn't say that it's difficult to understand why some Browns fans (and not under-informed ones who just want their jersey money back) might not appreciate this as a "good trade" for the Browns.
I was against the Trent acquisition from the get-go, but I also have him in my fantasy league and I believe he is a good man as well as a good player.
If we had taken him later in the draft, I would have been ecstatic. I thought taking him at 4 was a bit too high and trading up to 3 was definitely not the best move.
In this league, you can find dynamic backs outside of the first round (see: Alfred Morris, DeMarco Murray, LeSean McCoy, Arian Foster, Jamaal Charles, etc.)
Trent put up solid numbers for us (3.5 YPC, 1100+ Yds, 11 TDs), but he wasn't a true playmaker. He could grind out the tough yards and he had some fantastic runs, don't get me wrong. I mostly enjoyed watching him play. But I never got the feeling that I was watching someone truly special whenever he touched the ball like I get with AP, Megatron, Rodgers, et al, and his stats back that up. Trent's good, not great.
To be taken that early, you have to take the league by storm. He just didn't do it, and that's behind a better line than he'll be behind in Indy.
If the Browns take that pick and get a dynamic, playmaking WR, CB or QB and then pick up a RB in rounds 2-4 that puts up numbers similar to Trent's...this will be a big win for our FO.
More often than not, the schemes and supporting cast make the player. There have been countless players that have fizzled out and never amounted to anything because they were with the wrong team at the wrong time. Take Shady McCoy and put him in Arizona, he won't be nearly as effective. Take Alfred Morris and put him in New Orleans, he doesn't have the same effect. Take anybody from New England and put them anywhere else, they won't be nearly as good. Trent just was put into the wrong situation in Cleveland.
There are some players that transcend that. Megatron in Jacksonville is still Megatron. AP in Dallas is still AP. Barry Sanders in Cleveland is still Barry Sanders. A RB taken with the third overall pick should be grouped with the latter, not the former, but Trent finds himself on the wrong list (in my opinion).
A 4th round RB in the right system for his talents is just as effective as a 1st round RB in the wrong system.
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I am stunned....listening to Mary Kay Cabot mention that no one not brought in by Banner is safe...not Thomas...no one
I work second shift so I am just getting up to speed....and am stunned
The year is fucking over and it is not even October yet...
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What would you do if you inherited a 4-12 team and by the new season at 0-2 determined that your QB was nothing special and now badly injured, and your star RB was pretty average, slow to the hole, and often injured? It sounds pretty grim. So make some trades, pick up draft choices and start over. Sounds like a plan.
I would be asking myself why, as a candidate to be a HC for a professional football team, I didn't realize that before I got there.
I would be asking myself why, as a candidate to be a HC for a professional football team, I didn't realize that before I got there.
yea but by your estimation it seems like 20/20 hindsight
I dont mind Chud making this evaluation and pulling the trigger...
He (indirectly) did that a few years back as o coodinator when Frye was traded - DA started and well., got our hopes up again for a while at least?
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Hoyer -Rainey- Bess
Let's do this.
Score 24 points per week and we are in the playoffs with this defense.
One Time Baby
Z
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Fuckin factory of sadness.
Some of you ppl are either blinded by bias or are complete morons.
TR was a workhorse back that is easily a top 15 back. He doesn't have break out speed, but how many backs do? He has been running behind LITERALLY THE WORST Oline in the league. Who in the league could run much better than 3.5yds/carry behind the likes of Cousins, Greco, and Schwartz? ****birds chirping****
So we trade a serviceable back that would be a great tandom with Lewis when healthy, for a wild card mid to late 1st rd pick.
What prospects are out there that were targeting? I don't see this is a great draft. Our pick (likely top 3) WILL NOT have the franchise QB we're looking for. Bridgewater, Boyd, Manziel....these guys aren't the answer for us IMO. So......we're going to take another QB that's not the right fit and gamble on a late 1st rd WR/RB/OL etc.
We only needed a QB, another WR for little, at least 1 more OG, and another CB. now we need another workhorse back to compliment Lewis.
I don't like this trade, not going try to spin it positive. It's bullshit wishful thinking, at best.
Frustrated.
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JAFBF brought up an interesting point regarding scheme versus personnel. Perhaps that's part of the problem I'm having here. I've never been a fan of the philosophy "To hell with the players we have, I'm running the scheme that _I_ like the best!" That seems to me like it results in exactly what we see with the Browns - a lot of turnover and starting over, with no realized success. "No good WRs? Who cares! I think 5 WR sets look cool, so that's what I'm running. Get those talented Tight Ends off my team! I don't use them!"
What's wrong with using what's already there and improving it instead of scrapping it all and starting over? That's part of why the Patriots organization is so great, I think. For a long time there, they didn't throw to their TEs like crazy. But then when they found some great TEs, they did. They didn't kick them off the team and say, "They're not really right for our scheme!" They changed their passing game to fit their personnel.
I know a lot of you don't agree with it, and obviously Chud doesn't either, but (the specific Trent example aside) I am just wearing of all the "starting over from scratch", and I would like to see someone inherit a team, look at what they already have, then improve on that. That's just me though, and not at all specific to this Trent situation. In the Trent situation, I would have been okay with them trading him if they would have just gotten more for him (or even a greater number of picks at a later round and then used them well).
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It stings because he was such a wasted pick and we could have helped the team in another way as opposed to just having a guy for a little over a season.
In all honesty, where we drafted Trent aside (and the stupid trade that came with it), how often do you get a first round pick for a running back that averages less than 4 yards per carry and can't break 1000 yards rushing in a single 16 game season? I know everyone wants more, but you have to be realistic with his actual production in the NFL. I know he had ten touchdowns, but those weren't really any long runs, mostly just goal line touchdowns.
It's not that everyone WANTS more, though. You're making it sound like Browns fans WANT more simply because they are Browns fans and everyone always wants more. The TRUTH is that people outside of the situation, with no stake on the Browns side, think that it was an awfully low price for him.
It's not that everyone WANTS more, though. You're making it sound like Browns fans WANT more simply because they are Browns fans and everyone always wants more. The TRUTH is that people outside of the situation, with no stake on the Browns side, think that it was an awfully low price for him.
That's not what I was saying I was just pointing out everyone for some reason thinks we should have gotten more, including the people outside of the situation, when really we got a fair return for a below average (statistically) running back in a passing league.
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It's not that everyone WANTS more, though. You're making it sound like Browns fans WANT more simply because they are Browns fans and everyone always wants more. The TRUTH is that people outside of the situation, with no stake on the Browns side, think that it was an awfully low price for him.
That's not what I was saying I was just pointing out everyone for some reason thinks we should have gotten more, including the people outside of the situation, when really we got a fair return for a below average (statistically) running back in a passing league.
That's not what I was saying I was just pointing out everyone for some reason thinks we should have gotten more, including the people outside of the situation, when really we got a fair return for a below average (statistically) running back in a passing league.
Does one statistic make it "statistically"? I'm assuming you're talking about YPC, because his other rushing stats were above average. 9th in rushing in a 32 team league is not statistically below average.
The "passing league" thing I keep hearing over and over is interesting. Anyone know where Flacco finished in the passing yardage or attempts last year? Seems I heard somewhere that his team had a pretty decent year...
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