Why Do Some People Hype Up Hoyer?
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I would have loved for Chud to say "We will rally around Brian Hoyer, and we will play good football"
Problem is with Weeden's injury he's not hopping on IR so Hoyer isn't really cemented as a starter right now.
It would have made more sense if it was about Willis McGahee, but RB's are meaningless.
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Yeah but these endorsements and anecdotes are only showing up after he won. What would have happened had he lost?
But I'll take these endorsements from analysts and others with a grain of salt. It's easy to talk big about a guy when he wins, let's see what they say when he loses. My bet is they go back to saying nothing.
Normally when someone says that a player has "it", they're really saying "well he's not all too talented, he's not really a physical specimen, he's not fast or strong etc. but there's just something about him".
I hope Hoyer is different. I hope that all he really needed was a scheme change and to go back home. I really, really, really do. I would rather him be "The One" than any QB we draft for the next ten years.
The prime example of the the big pump up was ESPN blowing RG III all off season, and the first couple games. Now that the Deadskins are 0-3 not so much, thankfully.
There has to be a reason Hoyer has bounced around, but there are plenty of other examples of teams that had gold dust right under their noses- and blew it big, or moderately big time. Johnny Unitas and Len Dawson immediately come to mind. And as I said elsewhere, if Atlanta knew what they had, they would never have traded Bret Farve to the Packers for just a second round pick.
The prime example of the the big pump up was ESPN blowing RG III all off season, and the first couple games. Now that the Deadskins are 0-3 not so much, thankfully.
There has to be a reason Hoyer has bounced around, but there are plenty of other examples of teams that had gold dust right under their noses- and blew it big, or moderately big time. Johnny Unitas and Len Dawson immediately come to mind. And as I said elsewhere, if Atlanta knew what they had, they would never have traded Bret Farve to the Packers for just a second round pick.
There are others as well:
Would the entire NFL have let Warren Moon go to Canada?
Fran Tarkenton was with the Vikes first, then traded to Giants, then back to Vikes, would the Giants, who had no success whatsoever during the 1970s have traded him back?
Steve Young went from Tampa to San Fran....and from starter to backup. Why let him go?
Kurt Warner should have never been allowed to leave the Rams after he had 2 SBs under his belt...only to get another elsewhere?
Ron Jaworski spent a couple of years with the Rams. Why let him go...since he went on to be a SB QB
Jim Plunkett....nothing in NE and SFO, then wins 2 Super Bowls with the Raiders
Bobby Layne spent one year with the Bears...who got rid of him. All he did was go on to win 3 titles with the Lions
And the Rams kinda blew another one: They let Frank Ryan go to the Browns. He would have probably done pretty good for them playing along with the Fearsome Foursome.
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Yeah but these endorsements and anecdotes are only showing up after he won. What would have happened had he lost?
But I'll take these endorsements from analysts and others with a grain of salt. It's easy to talk big about a guy when he wins, let's see what they say when he loses. My bet is they go back to saying nothing.
Normally when someone says that a player has "it", they're really saying "well he's not all too talented, he's not really a physical specimen, he's not fast or strong etc. but there's just something about him".
I hope Hoyer is different. I hope that all he really needed was a scheme change and to go back home. I really, really, really do. I would rather him be "The One" than any QB we draft for the next ten years.
The prime example of the the big pump up was ESPN blowing RG III all off season, and the first couple games. Now that the Deadskins are 0-3 not so much, thankfully.
There has to be a reason Hoyer has bounced around, but there are plenty of other examples of teams that had gold dust right under their noses- and blew it big, or moderately big time. Johnny Unitas and Len Dawson immediately come to mind. And as I said elsewhere, if Atlanta knew what they had, they would never have traded Bret Farve to the Packers for just a second round pick.
The prime example of the the big pump up was ESPN blowing RG III all off season, and the first couple games. Now that the Deadskins are 0-3 not so much, thankfully.
There has to be a reason Hoyer has bounced around, but there are plenty of other examples of teams that had gold dust right under their noses- and blew it big, or moderately big time. Johnny Unitas and Len Dawson immediately come to mind. And as I said elsewhere, if Atlanta knew what they had, they would never have traded Bret Farve to the Packers for just a second round pick.
And all of those happened in the last millennium. It's a little harder to miss on talent nowadays with the advances in scouting. It used to be that you ran your 40, threw some footballs and talked to some coaches and then you were scouted.
Where was Horton months ago when we picked up Hoyer? I don't recall him saying anything along the lines of "this guy is fantastic, he can be our starter". I don't recall Simms saying "Hoyer outperformed Brady in practice, he's starting caliber".
The point is, it's a hell of a lot easier to day "I told you so" than it is to actually go against the grain and say something. These guys weren't about to call Hoyer a starter three weeks ago and now everyone is all over his dick because it's a good story.
That's the media, bro. They're all a bunch of self serving assholes with no real opinions. They just say whatever it is they think the gen. Public will eat up...and most of us are falling for it hook,line, and sinker.
Of course I will be rooting on Hoyer on Sunday. Today's my birthday and I would like nothing more than for us to destroy Cincy at home with a hometown boy. But I'm not going to start clamoring over him until he wins a couple more games.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Yeah but these endorsements and anecdotes are only showing up after he won. What would have happened had he lost?I think people get understandably excited when guys like Phil Simms among many others say he's the best QB they've seen in practice that hasn't had a chance yet, and then all the anecdotes talking about how he had more accuracy than Tom Brady in camp and all this other stuff (like him beating out weeden and campbell on some drill I don't remember what it was).
We'll see, I hope he's the one.
The media is taking the story and running with it, as they should. It's a good story and it fills dead air.
But I'll take these endorsements from analysts and others with a grain of salt. It's easy to talk big about a guy when he wins, let's see what they say when he loses. My bet is they go back to saying nothing.
I'll never believe anything Belichick has to say about anything, I trust that guy about as far as I can throw Ghoolie's fat ass. Of course he'll talk up a player on his roster that he brought in as a UDFA, he's trying to puff out his chest and get some trade value for him.
Normally when someone says that a player has "it", they're really saying "well he's not all too talented, he's not really a physical specimen, he's not fast or strong etc. but there's just something about him".
In other words, "this guy sucks but for some reason he's sticking around".
I hope Hoyer is different. I hope that all he really needed was a scheme change and to go back home. I really, really, really do. I would rather him be "The One" than any QB we draft for the next ten years.
Having zero belief in Wheezy (or Campbell) at least for me Hoyer = Hope...
Maybe it was the Phipps/ Sipe comparison...
Maybe it was the impression Hoyer left in the preseason...
... but I eagerly awaited last week's game with more excitement than any other game in a long time.
And I'm even more excited this week...
Belichick ... (will)... talk up a player on his roster that he brought in as a UDFA, he's trying to puff out his chest and get some trade value for him.
First thought that occurred to me reading about back up QB's earlier in thread. Bill loves building up a back up and then getting great value for him, e.g., Matt Cassel.
Of course I will be rooting on Hoyer on Sunday. Today's my birthday and I would like nothing more than for us to destroy Cincy at home with a hometown boy.
Happy Birthday, TCLP... hope you get your wish.
Zombo said:
Maybe he'll crap his pants like Charlie Frye and we'll draft a new quarterback next May. We're prepared for that.
But maybe ... maybe ... just maybe ... something special happens to Browns fans.
Just made me think of Louis CK's "Of course, but maybe" bit from his most recent HBO special.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
My point, Couch, is that we've been hearing about The Cult of Hoyer for some time now, at least on various boards. A couple of our favorite draftnicks (Sobo and Alo) talked him up a lot, said there were a lot of people around the league who thought he could start. We know Lombardi always had wood for him.
Anyhoo, point is, we've been hearing a lot about him for a while. In fact, the season we signed Delhomme, that was the first year his name started getting tossed around. Think it would've been prior to his second season. Someone heard the new brass was high on him (Holmgren and Heckert).
Might've been a bigger deal on Barquing Harddd, but Hoyer's had a ton of play over the last 3-4 years.
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All I'm going to say about this matter is that Hoyer gave me something that I didn't get all season, which is the chance to watch an exciting game. Now one of those INT's was just getting hit when he threw, that happens. Two were terrible throws where he didn't read the defense.
I do not know how much of his success was linked to Gordans return, the Vikings preparing for Cambell most of the week, and there being very little regular season tape on him for the Vikes to even look at.
I say go with the hot hand, but he needs to keep it rolling, which will be something hard to do against the Bungles, who host one of the best defenses in the NFL. If he doesn't at least match what he did last week, which is a 1:1 TD ratio, then I honestly want to see Weeden back in at QB with Gordan available.
Ruining threads since 1897. -
Thought the same thing about Gordon being back and also Chud making more aggressive play calls. Gordon was huge and Weeden has missed out on that.
But yeah, stick with the guy winning games and scoring touch downs. I had a great time watching the game too.
Hoyer definitely has a quicker release, is more accurate, and seems football smart. He's not BQ/Colt to Weeden's DA.
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The prime example of the the big pump up was ESPN blowing RG III all off season, and the first couple games. Now that the Deadskins are 0-3 not so much, thankfully.
There has to be a reason Hoyer has bounced around, but there are plenty of other examples of teams that had gold dust right under their noses- and blew it big, or moderately big time. Johnny Unitas and Len Dawson immediately come to mind. And as I said elsewhere, if Atlanta knew what they had, they would never have traded Bret Farve to the Packers for just a second round pick.
And all of those happened in the last millennium. It's a little harder to miss on talent nowadays with the advances in scouting. It used to be that you ran your 40, threw some footballs and talked to some coaches and then you were scouted.
Where was Horton months ago when we picked up Hoyer? I don't recall him saying anything along the lines of "this guy is fantastic, he can be our starter". I don't recall Simms saying "Hoyer outperformed Brady in practice, he's starting caliber".
The point is, it's a hell of a lot easier to day "I told you so" than it is to actually go against the grain and say something. These guys weren't about to call Hoyer a starter three weeks ago and now everyone is all over his dick because it's a good story.
That's the media, bro. They're all a bunch of self serving assholes with no real opinions. They just say whatever it is they think the gen. Public will eat up...and most of us are falling for it hook,line, and sinker.
Of course I will be rooting on Hoyer on Sunday. Today's my birthday and I would like nothing more than for us to destroy Cincy at home with a hometown boy. But I'm not going to start clamoring over him until he wins a couple more games.
And all of those happened in the last millennium. It's a little harder to miss on talent nowadays with the advances in scouting. It used to be that you ran your 40, threw some footballs and talked to some coaches and then you were scouted.
Where was Horton months ago when we picked up Hoyer? I don't recall him saying anything along the lines of "this guy is fantastic, he can be our starter". I don't recall Simms saying "Hoyer outperformed Brady in practice, he's starting caliber".
The point is, it's a hell of a lot easier to day "I told you so" than it is to actually go against the grain and say something. These guys weren't about to call Hoyer a starter three weeks ago and now everyone is all over his dick because it's a good story.
That's the media, bro. They're all a bunch of self serving assholes with no real opinions. They just say whatever it is they think the gen. Public will eat up...and most of us are falling for it hook,line, and sinker.
Of course I will be rooting on Hoyer on Sunday. Today's my birthday and I would like nothing more than for us to destroy Cincy at home with a hometown boy. But I'm not going to start clamoring over him until he wins a couple more games.
A little harder to miss on talent? Not really.
Shall we take a little trip down memory lane (I just did) on the monumental QB busts since the Browns return in 1999? And I didn't even count 1\2 busts like Couch.
Ring a bell here? Akilli Smith, Cade McNoun, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman, JP Losman, Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Jafattus Russell (tops the list),Brady Queen, Mark Sanchez (only good move by the Browns), Josh Freeman, Tim freaking TeBag.
That's just first round my friend.
Time will tell if we can add Gabbert, Ponder, and We-don't to the list. Think Drew Brees would have gone top five, if not first overall in his draft if we could rewind the clock? Geee..... he's too short. Guess the Seahags thought about that when they drafted Russell Wilson in the third?...... -
lombardner will fuck it up no matter what.
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Having zero belief in Wheezy (or Campbell) at least for me Hoyer = Hope...
Maybe it was the Phipps/ Sipe comparison...
Maybe it was the impression Hoyer left in the preseason...
... but I eagerly awaited last week's game with more excitement than any other game in a long time.
And I'm even more excited this week...
Belichick ... (will)... talk up a player on his roster that he brought in as a UDFA, he's trying to puff out his chest and get some trade value for him.
First thought that occurred to me reading about back up QB's earlier in thread. Bill loves building up a back up and then getting great value for him, e.g., Matt Cassel.
Of course I will be rooting on Hoyer on Sunday. Today's my birthday and I would like nothing more than for us to destroy Cincy at home with a hometown boy.
Happy Birthday, TCLP... hope you get your wish.
Zombo said:
Maybe he'll crap his pants like Charlie Frye and we'll draft a new quarterback next May. We're prepared for that.
But maybe ... maybe ... just maybe ... something special happens to Browns fans.
Just made me think of Louis CK's "Of course, but maybe" bit from his most recent HBO special.
Louis CK is my favorite comic and his "of course, by maybe" bit is my most favorite bit. The stuff he says is absolutely hilarious, but is also just absolutely true for the common man. About 90% of the stuff he says or references is stuff nice either thought about or done in my life, which is the mark of a good comic.Having zero belief in Wheezy (or Campbell) at least for me Hoyer = Hope...
Maybe it was the Phipps/ Sipe comparison...
Maybe it was the impression Hoyer left in the preseason...
... but I eagerly awaited last week's game with more excitement than any other game in a long time.
And I'm even more excited this week...
First thought that occurred to me reading about back up QB's earlier in thread. Bill loves building up a back up and then getting great value for him, e.g., Matt Cassel.
Happy Birthday, TCLP... hope you get your wish.
Just made me think of Louis CK's "Of course, but maybe" bit from his most recent HBO special.
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The prime example of the the big pump up was ESPN blowing RG III all off season, and the first couple games. Now that the Deadskins are 0-3 not so much, thankfully.
There has to be a reason Hoyer has bounced around, but there are plenty of other examples of teams that had gold dust right under their noses- and blew it big, or moderately big time. Johnny Unitas and Len Dawson immediately come to mind. And as I said elsewhere, if Atlanta knew what they had, they would never have traded Bret Farve to the Packers for just a second round pick.
And all of those happened in the last millennium. It's a little harder to miss on talent nowadays with the advances in scouting. It used to be that you ran your 40, threw some footballs and talked to some coaches and then you were scouted.
Where was Horton months ago when we picked up Hoyer? I don't recall him saying anything along the lines of "this guy is fantastic, he can be our starter". I don't recall Simms saying "Hoyer outperformed Brady in practice, he's starting caliber".
The point is, it's a hell of a lot easier to day "I told you so" than it is to actually go against the grain and say something. These guys weren't about to call Hoyer a starter three weeks ago and now everyone is all over his dick because it's a good story.
That's the media, bro. They're all a bunch of self serving assholes with no real opinions. They just say whatever it is they think the gen. Public will eat up...and most of us are falling for it hook,line, and sinker.
Of course I will be rooting on Hoyer on Sunday. Today's my birthday and I would like nothing more than for us to destroy Cincy at home with a hometown boy. But I'm not going to start clamoring over him until he wins a couple more games.
Where was Horton months ago when we picked up Hoyer? I don't recall him saying anything along the lines of "this guy is fantastic, he can be our starter".
Sorry to cherry pick part of your post, but I think it will help me make a larger point-
Horton probably said some things that remained in-house, but I can't fathom him running to the media about "we have a kid that's better than our starting QB" on his first day of work. Especially in Cleveland, where QB controversies just appear from the ether.
I'm obviously speculating, but I think it's a pretty likely scenario and maybe part of the reason we didnt make a huge FA splash trying to go after Mallet, etc.. (using Lombardi & Horton's input on Hoyer).
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Where was Horton months ago when we picked up Hoyer? I don't recall him saying anything along the lines of "this guy is fantastic, he can be our starter".
Sorry to cherry pick part of your post, but I think it will help me make a larger point-
Horton probably said some things that remained in-house, but I can't fathom him running to the media about "we have a kid that's better than our starting QB" on his first day of work. Especially in Cleveland, where QB controversies just appear from the ether.
I'm obviously speculating, but I think it's a pretty likely scenario and maybe part of the reason we didnt make a huge FA splash trying to go after Mallet, etc.. (using Lombardi & Horton's input on Hoyer).
Sorry to cherry pick part of your post, but I think it will help me make a larger point-
Horton probably said some things that remained in-house, but I can't fathom him running to the media about "we have a kid that's better than our starting QB" on his first day of work. Especially in Cleveland, where QB controversies just appear from the ether.
I'm obviously speculating, but I think it's a pretty likely scenario and maybe part of the reason we didnt make a huge FA splash trying to go after Mallet, etc.. (using Lombardi & Horton's input on Hoyer).
Hopefully Lombardi going nuts over someone doesn't count for much if he's on his own, but if backed up by one of Norv or Horton (and to a degree Chud) you'd like to think there's something there.
That being said, Horton's a D player, D coordinator, he's probably not going to be right on QBs 100% of the time.
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All I'm going to say about this matter is that Hoyer gave me something that I didn't get all season, which is the chance to watch an exciting game. Now one of those INT's was just getting hit when he threw, that happens. Two were terrible throws where he didn't read the defense.
I do not know how much of his success was linked to Gordans return, the Vikings preparing for Cambell most of the week, and there being very little regular season tape on him for the Vikes to even look at.
I say go with the hot hand, but he needs to keep it rolling, which will be something hard to do against the Bungles, who host one of the best defenses in the NFL. If he doesn't at least match what he did last week, which is a 1:1 TD ratio, then I honestly want to see Weeden back in at QB with Gordan available.
All I'm going to say about this matter is that Hoyer gave me something that I didn't get all season, which is the chance to watch an exciting game. Now one of those INT's was just getting hit when he threw, that happens. Two were terrible throws where he didn't read the defense.
I do not know how much of his success was linked to Gordans return, the Vikings preparing for Cambell most of the week, and there being very little regular season tape on him for the Vikes to even look at.
I thought even the two "terrible throws" were an improvement as they were made by rangy LBs underneath the routes. Yes, you have to account for LBs if you want to start in this league, but...
At least we did not see seemingly desperate throws into double coverage just because the throw was intended for the primary receiver.
Struck me as progress anyway...
A little harder to miss on talent? Not really.
Ring a bell here? Akilli Smith, Cade McNoun, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman, JP Losman, Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Jafattus Russell (tops the list),Brady Queen, Mark Sanchez (only good move by the Browns), Josh Freeman, Tim freaking TeBag.
That's just first round my friend.
Time will tell if we can add Gabbert, Ponder, and We-don't to the list. Think Drew Brees would have gone top five, if not first overall in his draft if we could rewind the clock? Geee..... he's too short. Guess the Seahags thought about that when they drafted Russell Wilson in the third?...Some of the "missed talent" (or lack of talent) results may be attributed to pressing unready QB's into service too early. Certainly was my impression with Carr.
Like Couch, Carr was pressed into service day one behind a terrible line on an expansion team. Carr was abused like no other QB I've ever watched for years including 76 sacks his rookie year with around that number of knock downs to boot.
I thought the kid was really promising, but he never had a chance...
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Couch got the Archie Manning treatment, only worse, maybe. The Browns would have
been far better off drafting a LT and finding a good veteran qb to step in and make as much
sense of things as possible.
Ya don't see any squeeler trolls around here bragging on Big Stupid and Ugly Ben anymore.
All the pieces aren't in place, and they very well may go 0-4. I hope Lauvao is back in there on Sunday.
Should be a great football game.
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Bottom line on Couch: stupid. Good old-fashioned stupid. I wanted so badly for him to be good but he just didn't have it between the ears. The shoulder was almost merciful.
I'm a big believer in a quarterback with presence, a guy who at least SEEMS smart. Obviously Brady, Manning, Brees, and Rodgers all seem like the smartest guys in the room and I think other players want that. Freeman's super smart but also comes off "soft" and disengaged. RG3 is smart AND a fiery competitor. Russell Wilson seems like he's just about to teach an AP Econ class and I think his teammates probably dig that. Ryan Tannehill had like a 3.7 and a 33 on the Wonderlic, has a casual confidence but is becoming more assertive (or so I've read).
Best comparison: E.J. V. Geno. Geno has a lot of trouble expressing himself. E.J. has the bearings of a 30-year-old man, an alpha confidence that blew people away in interviews and made him the top quarterback in the draft (which nobody could have predicted five months earlier).
Yeah, that's one of my problems with Weeds. He comes off as a gee-shucks "slinger," as he calls himself. Not hyper-focused or intense, the Anti-Manning. Anybody envision him going off like Tom Brady does, let alone Marino or Unitas? Or Sipe?
I don't know enough about Hoyer yet but Gordon said he's way more intense.
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Bottom line on Couch: stupid. Good old-fashioned stupid. I wanted so badly for him to be good but he just didn't have it between the ears. The shoulder was almost merciful.
I'm a big believer in a quarterback with presence, a guy who at least SEEMS smart. Obviously Brady, Manning, Brees, and Rodgers all seem like the smartest guys in the room and I think other players want that. Freeman's super smart but also comes off "soft" and disengaged. RG3 is smart AND a fiery competitor. Russell Wilson seems like he's just about to teach an AP Econ class and I think his teammates probably dig that. Ryan Tannehill had like a 3.7 and a 33 on the Wonderlic, has a casual confidence but is becoming more assertive (or so I've read).
Best comparison: E.J. V. Geno. Geno has a lot of trouble expressing himself. E.J. has the bearings of a 30-year-old man, an alpha confidence that blew people away in interviews and made him the top quarterback in the draft (which nobody could have predicted five months earlier).
Yeah, that's one of my problems with Weeds. He comes off as a gee-shucks "slinger," as he calls himself. Not hyper-focused or intense, the Anti-Manning. Anybody envision him going off like Tom Brady does, let alone Marino or Unitas? Or Sipe?
I don't know enough about Hoyer yet but Gordon said he's way more intense.
Bottom line on Couch: stupid. Good old-fashioned stupid. I wanted so badly for him to be good but he just didn't have it between the ears. The shoulder was almost merciful.
I'm a big believer in a quarterback with presence, a guy who at least SEEMS smart. Obviously Brady, Manning, Brees, and Rodgers all seem like the smartest guys in the room and I think other players want that. Freeman's super smart but also comes off "soft" and disengaged. RG3 is smart AND a fiery competitor. Russell Wilson seems like he's just about to teach an AP Econ class and I think his teammates probably dig that. Ryan Tannehill had like a 3.7 and a 33 on the Wonderlic, has a casual confidence but is becoming more assertive (or so I've read).
Best comparison: E.J. V. Geno. Geno has a lot of trouble expressing himself. E.J. has the bearings of a 30-year-old man, an alpha confidence that blew people away in interviews and made him the top quarterback in the draft (which nobody could have predicted five months earlier).
Yeah, that's one of my problems with Weeds. He comes off as a gee-shucks "slinger," as he calls himself. Not hyper-focused or intense, the Anti-Manning. Anybody envision him going off like Tom Brady does, let alone Marino or Unitas? Or Sipe?
I don't know enough about Hoyer yet but Gordon said he's way more intense.
Something that caught my eye about Hoyer: after the ravens loss there was the typical shots of the players milling around and there was Hoyer, the then 3rd string qb standing there chatting up Flacco the super bowl MVP and I thought "this guy is the leader", because Weeden was not in sight. Hoyer seems more confident, more poised and passes the eye test. He seems to command more respect in the huddle and ill take that in the interim. I'm excited to watch a good game Sunday win or lose.
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Even of they get beat down Sunday I don't want to see Weeden ever again. I've seen enough Weeden for a lifetime.
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Even of they get beat down Sunday I don't want to see Weeden ever again. I've seen enough Weeden for a lifetime.
Even of they get beat down Sunday I don't want to see Weeden ever again. I've seen enough Weeden for a lifetime.
yessir! I agree.
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This administration is over Weeden. I don't give a shit how much Chud or anybody else tries to deny it.
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