Senior Bowl
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some people don't trust chung because they think he's too small. he's listed at 5'11" and 207 and people wonder if he can hold up in the NFL and if he'll be able to cover the larger TEs in the league.
any slight deficiency, especially for a guy whose position requires that he have excellent size and speed and be a hybrid LB/CB who can stuff the run, rush the passer and cover, is going to drop a guy's draft stock.
which is good news for the team that gets him. chung's a gamer and possibly the best prospect in this class, though it seems like delmas is closing in on him.
some people don't trust chung because they think he's too small. he's listed at 5'11" and 207 and people wonder if he can hold up in the NFL and if he'll be able to cover the larger TEs in the league.
any slight deficiency, especially for a guy whose position requires that he have excellent size and speed and be a hybrid LB/CB who can stuff the run, rush the passer and cover, is going to drop a guy's draft stock.
which is good news for the team that gets him. chung's a gamer and possibly the best prospect in this class, though it seems like delmas is closing in on him.
Like I said, he is Polamalu's size. Polly is 5'10" and 207 now...so Chung is taller and can still fill out a bit. Anyway, I have been on his bandwagon (along with Lucky at RB) for a while. Hope we snag him in Rd 2.
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some people don't trust chung because they think he's too small. he's listed at 5'11" and 207 and people wonder if he can hold up in the NFL and if he'll be able to cover the larger TEs in the league.
any slight deficiency, especially for a guy whose position requires that he have excellent size and speed and be a hybrid LB/CB who can stuff the run, rush the passer and cover, is going to drop a guy's draft stock.
which is good news for the team that gets him. chung's a gamer and possibly the best prospect in this class, though it seems like delmas is closing in on him.
some people don't trust chung because they think he's too small. he's listed at 5'11" and 207 and people wonder if he can hold up in the NFL and if he'll be able to cover the larger TEs in the league.
any slight deficiency, especially for a guy whose position requires that he have excellent size and speed and be a hybrid LB/CB who can stuff the run, rush the passer and cover, is going to drop a guy's draft stock.
which is good news for the team that gets him. chung's a gamer and possibly the best prospect in this class, though it seems like delmas is closing in on him.
5'11" and 207 and pretty close to average for an NFL FS....Beathea, Reed, Nelson, Wilson, Dawkins, Rolle, Griffin.
All these Guys are in the 5'10" to 6' range and are around 200 lbs.
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Chung's more of a strong safety. He was used as a rover at Oregon - more of a fourth linebacker, not a deep cover guy.
I wonder if our scouts are looking at free safeties as well. If we lose Sean Jones, Brodney Pool could move to the strong safety spot - IIRC, he played pretty well there when Jones was hurt.
If so, Delmas could be a guy we consider. He plays FS, and he's a Taylor Mays-like headhunter in the secondary (though he's not Mays' size, leading to questions about his durability).
EDIT: I guess Moore is considered a FS, but his deficiencies in coverage likely will lead to him playing at the other spot (if not at linebacker).
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Aloysius.....Do you ever worry about all these college DE's making a smooth transition to the OLB spot in the 3-4?
It does worry me. Seeing what happened to Vernon Gholston last year makes me wonder sometimes if some of these guys are simply not made to play an OLB spot, even with the fact that the NFL seems to be more and more demanding that they do.
If I had the perfect situation, I'd rather pick a true OLB to play play that postion rather than a converted DE.
The thing I like about Moore is his pure speed. The kid is really fast for a player that size. Could play either safety position.
I like him a lot but there is always the injury issue. At one time he was a mid first rounder. Is he still?
P.S. Do you realize that your username is the first name of Mr. Snufflupagas on Sesame street? Just some lighted heartedness here...lol!
Is there a story behind you using this old German name?
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Ha. My username is a reference to Sebastian Flyte's teddy bear in Brideshead Revisited (one of my favorite novels). I didn't know about the snuffleupagus thing until after I'd registered here.
As for converting DE to OLB: there always is some risk there. Maybe I'm just a little less worried because 1) I didn't think Gholston was a good fit; and 2) it's still possible that he could succeed. Part of the reason he didn't get any sacks is that he had two good OLB's, Calvin Pace and Bryan Thomas, playing ahead of him.
Still, I'm worried about the two top conversion prospects in this year's draft: Orakpo because I think he's physically more a 4-3 DE and Brown because I think his style of play doesn't augur a smooth transition.
In a way, I'm more comfortable with some of the lower ranked prospects: guys like Larry English and Cody Brown. Cody needs to get a little bigger (he's 6'2", 242 lbs.), but he looks plenty athletic for playing LB.
And we're going to get a lot more info about all of these guys this week & at the Combine. That should help eliminate some of the risk.
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On NFL Network right now: Parcells and Belichick sitting next to each other at the Senior Bowl. That's pretty cool.
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A Phil Savage interview!
Highlights:
- Likes Pat White as a player & team leader, but doesn't think he's "there yet" as a QB.
- Thinks the 3rd QB spot will shift from being reserved for a 3rd QB to one given to a WildDawg QB-WR hybrid like White.
- Talked about the evolution of the college game. Said that the spread offense made looking for 3-4 prospects more difficult because defenses are getting smaller to counteract the speed of the spread.
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TE Shawn Nelson just buried Rey Maualuga in a pass rush drill.
Savage called Clay Matthews "a phenomenal riser", labeled him a fringe 1st Round pick
Also, Savage said Brian Cushing could fit either a 4-3 or a 3-4 & "has the physique of an NFL player. As soon as he walks into your building, you'll say 'There's a #1 pick.'"
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Nelson beat Maualuga again.
Savage said Maualuga getting beat isn't a big deal because the drill simulates rushing from an on the line position, and Rey's more of a blitzer from the inside.
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Savage said most people see Rashad Johnson as a nickel/6th defensive back who can help on special teams.
I don't think Mayock is one of them - he has Johnson ranked as his #1 safety prospect.
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Said Alphonso Smith is a 1st Rounder, but his marginal size will hurt him when facing guys like Randy Moss.
Talked about Mike Wallace, a receiver from Ole Miss. Said that he visited Ole Miss midseason & the coaching staff was a little down on him, but he put up huge numbers in the last four games of the year.
Said West Virginia CB Ellis Lankster's 40 time will be key in determining his draft stock.
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Chung's more of a strong safety. He was used as a rover at Oregon - more of a fourth linebacker, not a deep cover guy.
I wonder if our scouts are looking at free safeties as well. If we lose Sean Jones, Brodney Pool could move to the strong safety spot - IIRC, he played pretty well there when Jones was hurt.
If so, Delmas could be a guy we consider. He plays FS, and he's a Taylor Mays-like headhunter in the secondary (though he's not Mays' size, leading to questions about his durability).
EDIT: I guess Moore is considered a FS, but his deficiencies in coverage likely will lead to him playing at the other spot (if not at linebacker).
Aloysius said:
Chung's more of a strong safety. He was used as a rover at Oregon - more of a fourth linebacker, not a deep cover guy.But teams that run the Tampa two.....It really doesn't matter too much, does it?
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I think it matters less, but there's still a difference:
Tampa 2 description
The two safeties are responsible for covering their respective halves of the field from 20 yards out and more. The safeties in the system are expected to be above-average cover men with the ability to break up passes, but each safety also is expected to have additional specific skills. The strong safeties, while not expected to be great tacklers, are expected to be hard hitters. The hard hitting strong safety protects the middle of the field from being exploited by small, fast receivers, and running backs on wheel routes, by intimidating them to not run their routes in that direction. The free safety will be called upon to do one of two things in certain situations, either blitz the quarterback, requiring him to have the skills necessary to beat a blocking halfback or fullback, or to assume the coverage zone left by a blitzing cornerback.
And if it's a Tampa 2 team, Chung will have a lot to prove as far as his coverage ability, which is very important in that system. From what I've heard thus far, Chung has looked solid in coverage.
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Some more notes:
- Alabama center Antoine Caldwell (a favorite of Heck's) did a great job against Georgia DT Corvey Irvin. But when Caldwell slid over to guard, he was unable to deal with USC DE Kyle Moore's speed.
- USC DT Fili Moala overpowered and outquicked Auburn OG Tyronne Green on successive plays. Moala also split two battles with Eric Wood, a center the Browns' scouts have been looking at.
- Hawaii DE David Veikune used his quickness to get past Ole Miss OT Michael Oher on successive plays. Oher also struggled at times with Tennessee DE Robert Ayers yesterday; he may be getting exposed a little at these practices.
EDIT: Oher later adjusted and dominated Veikune.
- Ole Miss DT Peria Jerry looked solid, beating LSU's Herman Johnson with speed and Louisville's Eric Wood with power.
- Everybody was able to overpower Arkansas center Jonathan Luigs. He won't be able to contain 3-4 NT's.
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The Georgia DT is Corvey Irvin.
A few more practice notes:
- WLB Clay Matthews bit on a reverse, resulting in a big play.
- TE Shawn Nelson made a nice catch over the middle and absorbed a hit by the safety without getting knocked down
- LT Michael Oher got out of his stance a little too quick on at least one play. In a game, he would've been flagged for a false start.
- WLB Brian Cushing delivered a hard hit on a running back. However, he also looked a little lost on a screen play, not spotting the running back until it was too late.
- RE Kyle Moore got what would've been a sack, quickly getting inside LT Troy Kopog's right shoulder
- C Eric Wood locked up Rey Maualuga on an Arian Foster run, resulting in a big gain. On a big run by Andre Brown LT Troy Kopog was also able to keep Maualuga out of the play (though that one wasn't really Maualuga's fault).
- DT Corvey Irvin beat Eric Wood for a sack (and an actual hit on the quarterback). When Wood gave up the sack, he was lining up at right guard. On the next play, Irvin penetrated the A gap and got to the running back.
- DT Peria Jerry beat Caldwell (at center) and Jon Luigs (at right guard) for a sack. Caldwell doesn't seem to be getting out from under the snap quickly, resulting in him not being able to help out the man next to him.
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Here's a list of guys Scott Wright says our scouts talked to today. I put asterisks next to the guys our scouts already spoke to on Monday:
- Patrick Chung, SS, Oregon *
- Chip Vaughn, SS, Wake Forest
- Michael Hamlin, SS, Clemson
- Louis Delmas, FS, Western Michigan
- Derek Pegues, FS, Mississippi
- Rashad Johnson, FS, Alabama
- Tyrone McKenzie, LB, USF
- Marcus Freeman, LB, Ohio State
- Zack Follett, LB, Cal *
- Peria Jerry, DT, Ole Miss
- Tim Jamison, DE, Michigan
- William Beatty, OT, Connecticut
- Xavier Fulton, OT, Illinois
- Troy Kropog, OT, Tulane
- Tyronne Green, OG, Auburn
- Herman Johnson, OG, LSU
- Brian Robiskie, WR, Ohio State
- Arian Foster, RB, Tennessee
- Mark Estermyer, LS, Pitt
A little confused by the LB/DL list. The only guy who's a possible 3-4 scheme fit is Zack Follett, and even he's a bit of a project.
The OT scouting is interesting. Perhaps Shaffer's job isn't too safe...
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Aloysius said:
Chung's more of a strong safety. He was used as a rover at Oregon - more of a fourth linebacker, not a deep cover guy.But teams that run the Tampa two.....It really doesn't matter too much, does it?
oldcow1945 said:
But teams that run the Tampa two.....It really doesn't matter too much, does it?Mangini runs a zone and most of the time a cover 2, Chung would be a very nice pickup at SS. If you are concerned about his size then Chip Vaughn has the size and is a big hitter, but you sacrifice some coverage skills. Then again, Jones sucks at coverage and both guys are bigger hitters then him and better in coverage. Plus Jones wants a hugh contract for 4 years.
Any wonder we are taking a hard look at safeties their.
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The OT scouting is interesting. Perhaps Shaffer's job isn't too safe...
That and we are thin at the position...Tucker is really the back-up, and that is becoming less and less a option.
I know I said it before, but if Andre Smith is there when we draft, I think there is a good chance we will take him.
Schaffer is then the back-up at RT or starter at RT if Smith had to cover Thomas' position.
I also think Schaffer might be able to spell at guard.
O-line isn't a area of strength....so....sure, we probably aren't going O-line in the 1st, but we need a center, guard, and better RT....sooner or later we need to start drafting some guys who can fill those areas.
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Larry English continues to impress:
• Northern Illinois's Larry English is separating himself from another undersized defensive end/outside linebacker prospect -- Connecticut's Cody Brown -- and working his way into the first day of the draft. English is playing with more of an edge and showing better upper body than Brown as a run defender. He has also been a step quicker around the corner than Brown has been in rushing the passer.
Sounds like a solid guy to watch.
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