Smart vs Not so Smart
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I would say that some teams put more stock in it than others and some positions seem to be more cerebral than others. On the other hand, (if I recall correctly) Dan Marino had an abysmal Wonderlic and he did not do too badly.
I think that there are more important things to NFL teams than the Wonderlic. Truly, they should have some smarts in order to survive BUT I think that they place much more emphasis on background and personality checks (which are very detailed). They want to see what makes these guys tick. They want to know what they'll do under intense pressure and scrutiny. They also want to have some idea what the hell kinda person they're giving millions to.
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@yeahdaisafuturehofer... said:
I am not aware of any.Its usually a factor with QBs, Centers, Safetys, and play calling LBs becuase all those positions require brain power as opposed to punting the ball or trying to push a 300 pound dude out of your way to hit the QB.
Unfortunately even the players you've mentioned now should be able to read a play book. There has to be some sort of stats available for thede scouts to go by, there is a boatload of cash on the table. How did vince young test out? How did rumors form about how low his wonderlic scores were?
Unfortunately even the players you've mentioned now should be able to read a play book. There has to be some sort of stats available for thede scouts to go by, there is a boatload of cash on the table. How did vince young test out? How did rumors form about how low his wonderlic scores were?
I recently heard this story, which I'm repeating here.
Michael Turner and Jerious Norwood were filming a tv or commercial ad spot and Norwood kept screwing up. They were supposed to be adlibbing, but he was so bad that they had to read off the script instead. Guess what? He screwed that up too, until Turner told the people making the commercial "Norwood can't read, man".
How does a guy get through several years of college without being able to read???
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Well, that would help explain why a guy who was recruited by Florida ended up going to Mississippi State.
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I have always felt that a superior athlete with a low IQ would never be as good a performer as expected, but a good (but not great) athlete with superior intelligence could be an outstanding performer. Here is (IMHO) why. Understanding the game around you will improve your reaction time as you "anticipate" what will happen rather than having to stop & "think" about what may happen before reacting & moving. I believe that faster reaction time will offset faster physical "speed". Now, if you have superior athleticism AND superior intelligence, THAT is really special! In addition, the intelligent athlete will be far more receptive to coaching.
Just my opinion & observations.
Mike
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@yeahdaisafuturehofer... said:
I am not aware of any.Its usually a factor with QBs, Centers, Safetys, and play calling LBs becuase all those positions require brain power as opposed to punting the ball or trying to push a 300 pound dude out of your way to hit the QB.
Unfortunately even the players you've mentioned now should be able to read a play book. There has to be some sort of stats available for thede scouts to go by, there is a boatload of cash on the table. How did vince young test out? How did rumors form about how low his wonderlic scores were?
Unfortunately even the players you've mentioned now should be able to read a play book. There has to be some sort of stats available for thede scouts to go by, there is a boatload of cash on the table. How did vince young test out? How did rumors form about how low his wonderlic scores were?
For my two cents, it's not about smarts per se. The Wonderlic (which I've had the eye-opening experience of taking) tests decision-making. The idea is to make the "best" decision in the shortest amount of time. It's a bit like an abridged (and a bit simplified) LSAT in that regard. If your "gut" doesn't press you toward the best answer, you're not going to score well. It's not the kind of thing you can study for. It's meant to test the sum of your experience. You can practice, but you can't study.
That being said, it's been a fairly accurate tool for predicting longevity in the League if not "success". Although, as in all testing there are anomalies. Ben Roethlisberger scored unusually low for a quarterback, and I think it's fair to say, he's doing OK.
One thing to consider is that while the pressure some people place on themselves when faced with a standardized test can be substantial (and vary wildly from person to person), it is impossible to re-create the pressure of an NFL game. So, one could score very well on the Wonderlic, and really collapse under the pressure of a Sunday afternoon. Likewise, that pressure does bring out the best in some people. That's how you get those "feel" players... playground players like Roethlisberger (not to belabor an unpopular example).
From what I've been able to tell, "skill" players rely much less on guile and decision-making especially early in their careers. So, perhaps it's less important for a RB, WR, or CB who's careers are notoriously short (in the case of RB's and CB's), or notoriously hit and miss anyway... like high draft pick WR's. But throughout the rest of the defense, and all across the offensive line, and generally under center, your best bet is usually going to be the sharpest decision-maker.
However, if you're not going to play man-to-man down in and down out... you may be willing to trade 5 tenths of a second in the 40 at cornerback for a 25 on the Wonderlic.
And the league is full of exceptions. You want to play weakside OLB in a zone-blitz 3-4? OK, I'll take 250 lbs at 4.5, and let you sign your checks with an "X". But I'm going to need a SS that can render decimals to 11 places, and a Mike backer that can process information faster than a Compaq Presario.
You want to play a press 4-3, you can give me a grizzly bear to play the 3 technique on the strong side, I'll throw him a live fish after a 3 yard loss... but I'm going to want a guy who was debating whether or not to go to medical school to play the Free Safety spot.
Offensively, you can count the Wonderlic-deficient successful quarterbacks on one hand... and most of them won in Pittsburgh... I don't know what that indicates, it just happens to be the case. And linemen... sheesh... forget it. You might be able to hide a brain-dead-man-mountain at strong side guard and it may only cost your quarterback a kidney (Hey, he's got two). But, outside of that, it's better, smarter, stronger, faster in that order.
You can get some value out of a dim-witted WR or Punt Returner. Let's face it, Reggie Wayne nearly scored low enough to warrant an EEG... and Torry Holt was even lower. But, the position may be a matter of a lower bar... Where a 25 or 26 may be a decent number for a quarterback, 18 or 19 seems to be enough for an NFL receiver. Incidentally, 18 or 19 would probably get your red bib-thing revoked at Target... or at least get you off the register... just for the sake of comparison.
A "Feature Back," well, the decision demands are limited. But third-down backs make their bones between the ears and outside the tackles.
So can you use a knucklehead? Sure. But, while it's no substitute for physical ability, decision-making can be the difference between a 10 year vet and a one year flash in the proverbial pan.
-jj
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Great stuff, JJ.
If I could clone you (so I could have one of you around whenever I have a football Q), I would.
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If you are running a complex offense then it is wise to draft a guy who scored high on the Wonderlic test.
as a note most of those steelers championships were not because of great QB play but from a great defense.
If you are running a complex offense then it is wise to draft a guy who scored high on the Wonderlic test.
as a note most of those steelers championships were not because of great QB play but from a great defense.
Bradshaw and Ben had a lot to do with our five rings. No, we don't ask them to complete 40+ passes a game, we ask them to do enough to win. Bradshaw won us the most SBs out of any qb in history. (Actually he is tied for most with another pretty good qb) Bens arm won us the three away playoff games aginst the three top seeds in the AFC to get us to SB XL. Ben's arm got us 5 4th quarter or overtime comebacks this season. If he makes one mistake that cuases us to lose any one of those games we are a wildcard team. If we lose two of those games we potentially miss the playoffs depending on the teams we lost to. We thanks Ben's arm this SB season also.
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I'll take the guy with brains any day, but it's certainly not the end all be all.
Matter of fact, I don't necessarily think that the Wonderlic equates solely to intelligence. Also, if a guy does score better, what if he doesn't have as good of grades as the guy who scores lower? Does this mean he's lazy and doesn't work as hard?
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Wonderlic test scores aren't a measure of intelligence as much as how fast you can make an intelligent decision.
Wonderlic test scores aren't a measure of intelligence as much as how fast you can make an intelligent decision.
Exactly...it measures how fast your mind can process information.
All QBs see the same things, some just see it a little faster and process what to do a little faster...that is the difference between the average qbs and the good qbs.
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