Official Browns QB Prospect Discussion!
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If he were "amazing" I'd casually hear more people fawn over him than you. And I listen to sports talk radio just about all day.
Mariota's the top pick for the Heisman right now. It's impossible for him to get any more fawning.
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That's funny, because yesterday on Sportscenter Jameis Winston was the frontrunner.
Top 10 Heisman Poll according to ESPN Experts via College Gameday's twitter this afternoon:
1) Mariota
2) Winston
3) Manziel
4) Petty
5) Gordon
6) McCarron
7) Carey
Mannion9) Seastrunk
10) Boyd
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I can't remember where it was, but someone described Mettenburger as 'being big enough to take a hit and having the strongest arm in the class' - well, we've already got a guy like that. He's shit. Gonna need more than that to convince me.
I can't remember where it was, but someone described Mettenburger as 'being big enough to take a hit and having the strongest arm in the class' - well, we've already got a guy like that. He's shit. Gonna need more than that to convince me.
What color is Met's hair?
Does RG even have it? Or did he make it look like he did cause he can buy himself time with his wheels?
1. No
2. Yes
I'm only 24 and I'm calling people kids, fuck.
Tempus fugit...
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That's funny, because yesterday on Sportscenter Jameis Winston was the frontrunner.
Top 10 Heisman Poll according to ESPN Experts via College Gameday's twitter this afternoon:
1) Mariota
2) Winston
3) Manziel
4) Petty
5) Gordon
6) McCarron
7) Carey
Mannion9) Seastrunk
10) Boyd
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Heisman seems like more of a jinx in the pro's then anything else.
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That's funny, because yesterday on Sportscenter Jameis Winston was the frontrunner.
Top 10 Heisman Poll according to ESPN Experts via College Gameday's twitter this afternoon:
1) Mariota
2) Winston
3) Manziel
4) Petty
5) Gordon
6) McCarron
7) Carey
Mannion9) Seastrunk
10) Boyd
Top 10 Heisman Poll according to ESPN Experts via College Gameday's twitter this afternoon:
1) Mariota
2) Winston
3) Manziel
4) Petty
5) Gordon
6) McCarron
7) Carey
Mannion9) Seastrunk
10) Boyd
Where is Braxton Miller? I guess missing a couple of games hurt him.
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Where is Braxton Miller? I guess missing a couple of games hurt him.
He's also just not that good. I can admit it.
He's a better thrower than Pryor, but he's nowhere near the physical specimen Pryor was nor is he as mobile or as much of a playmaker.
With that said, he still may be able to find success in the NFL.
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I like MIller... and not just because he's a Buckeye. But Braxton is already damaged goods. What's his concussion count now? Three? Missing games kinda keeps you off of the Heisman list.
To my eye when he has been on the field, Miller's been an upgrade over Pryor, who I just never "got". Guiton as well for that matter, although Guiton is much in the mold of Pryor.
That said, Pryor protects himself much better on the run than Miller. To say I have been amazed at his success with the Raiders is an understatement.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
If he were "amazing" I'd casually hear more people fawn over him than you. And I listen to sports talk radio just about all day.
Mariota's the top pick for the Heisman right now. It's impossible for him to get any more fawning.
Mariota's the top pick for the Heisman right now. It's impossible for him to get any more fawning.
Didn't Tim Tebow win the Heisman? Last I checked the Heisman ultimately means jack shit. It's not even the award for the 'best' player.
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Didn't Tim Tebow win the Heisman? Last I checked the Heisman ultimately means jack shit. It's not even the award for the 'best' player.
The Heisman is the most important trophy awarded in American sports. So I am not sure where you are coming of that it means jack shit.
It may not mean that the guy that wins it is the best professional football prospect. But that is not what it is supposed to mean.
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The Heisman is the award for the MVP of the NCAA of the given year.
It is an important award but it really needs to stop being used as this great positive about incoming NFL prospects. They should get recognized that they won the award (though some say it is based more on popularity now) but it should really not factor in on a prospect's chances of how well he will do in the NFL.
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The Heisman is the award for the MVP of the NCAA of the given year.
It is an important award but it really needs to stop being used as this great positive about incoming NFL prospects. They should get recognized that they won the award (though some say it is based more on popularity now) but it should really not factor in on a prospect's chances of how well he will do in the NFL.
The Heisman is the award for the MVP of the NCAA of the given year.
That may be a good way to describe it "MVP" of the NCAA. In theory, and in definition it is supposed to be "best player", but it seldom is. But MVP makes more sense.
It is an important award but it really needs to stop being used as this great positive about incoming NFL prospects. They should get recognized that they won the award (though some say it is based more on popularity now) but it should really not factor in on a prospect's chances of how well he will do in the NFL.
In fact, it is almost antithetical to that now given these winners in which it can be demonstrated that far more Heisman winners are NOT NFL caliber players:
Ingram
Tebow
Troy Smith
Leinert
Jason White
Crouch
Wuerffel
Salaam
Charlie Ward
Torretta
Detmer
Ware
In the last 20 years only these winners can be said to have had decent NfL careers:
Eddie George
Charles Woodson
Ricky Williams
Carson Palmer
Sam Bradford
Cam Newton
RGIII...maybe
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That was NOT the case in the dozen or so years before Andre Ware. You had about an 80% quality player rate among Heisman winners:
Tony Dorsett#
Earl Campbell#
Billy Sims
Charles White
George Rogers
Marcus Allen#
Mike Rozier
Doug Flutie
Bo Jackson
Vinny Testaverde
Tim Brown
Barry Sanders#
Only White was somewhat of a bust. Imagine what Herschel would have done if he didn't go to the USFL..or actually, in evaluating him....we should consider his USFL accomplishments. And Bo with baseball? Potential HOF without that and the injury.
And the fact is, it was pure NFL hubris that disallowed Flutie to come to the NFL initially....and hell, he is in the CFL HOF.
Rogers and Sims were good quality NFL RBs, if not HOF caliber
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The Heisman is the award for the MVP of the NCAA of the given year.
It is an important award but it really needs to stop being used as this great positive about incoming NFL prospects. They should get recognized that they won the award (though some say it is based more on popularity now) but it should really not factor in on a prospect's chances of how well he will do in the NFL.
The Heisman is the award for the MVP of the NCAA of the given year.
It is an important award but it really needs to stop being used as this great positive about incoming NFL prospects. They should get recognized that they won the award (though some say it is based more on popularity now) but it should really not factor in on a prospect's chances of how well he will do in the NFL.
My understanding is that the Heisman is given to "most outstanding" player and that character is an important factor in the award. The award for actual best player in the NCAA is the Maxwell trophy or something.
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On the radio today I heard some Scout, analyst or something (of whom I forget his name) saying that he believes strongly that the front office is going to be very aggressive in obtaining one of the top QBs.
I think he said he has worked for the Eagles and the Ravens and perhaps a short time for the Browns.
His take was that Mariota is the most complete package but Bridgewater was right there.
He also confirmed with the ESPN analyst who said, like I've been saying for a while, just because the draft is deep doesn't mean it's a great draft.
I would really hate to see a couple first round picks and something else for Mariota or Bridgewater.
Thereby neglecting our needs that I believe would put us over the top sooner.
Especially if Hoyer and Campbell play like they have played for the short time they've been on the field.
If Hoorta is correct I suppose I could live with AJ McCarron sitting on the bench behind those guys for a while...
WSS
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I like MIller... and not just because he's a Buckeye. But Braxton is already damaged goods. What's his concussion count now? Three? Missing games kinda keeps you off of the Heisman list.
To my eye when he has been on the field, Miller's been an upgrade over Pryor, who I just never "got". Guiton as well for that matter, although Guiton is much in the mold of Pryor.
That said, Pryor protects himself much better on the run than Miller. To say I have been amazed at his success with the Raiders is an understatement.
I like MIller... and not just because he's a Buckeye. But Braxton is already damaged goods. What's his concussion count now? Three? Missing games kinda keeps you off of the Heisman list.
To my eye when he has been on the field, Miller's been an upgrade over Pryor, who I just never "got". Guiton as well for that matter, although Guiton is much in the mold of Pryor.
That said, Pryor protects himself much better on the run than Miller. To say I have been amazed at his success with the Raiders is an understatement.
I've never felt as comfortable with Miller as I did with Pryor. The game came easier to Pryor than it seems to with Miller.
They are fundamentally different QB's: Pryor is an athlete put at the QB position, Miller is a thrower put at QB. Neither are true QB's, in my opinion. They just have different qualities that they rely on to make then successful.
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That was NOT the case in the dozen or so years before Andre Ware. You had about an 80% quality player rate among Heisman winners:
Tony Dorsett#
Earl Campbell#
Billy Sims
Charles White
George Rogers
Marcus Allen#
Mike Rozier
Doug Flutie
Bo Jackson
Vinny Testaverde
Tim Brown
Barry Sanders#
Only White was somewhat of a bust. Imagine what Herschel would have done if he didn't go to the USFL..or actually, in evaluating him....we should consider his USFL accomplishments. And Bo with baseball? Potential HOF without that and the injury.
And the fact is, it was pure NFL hubris that disallowed Flutie to come to the NFL initially....and hell, he is in the CFL HOF.
Rogers and Sims were good quality NFL RBs, if not HOF caliber
In the last 20 years only these winners can be said to have had decent NfL careers:
Eddie George Charles Woodson Ricky Williams
Carson Palmer Sam Bradford Cam Newton RGIII...maybe
Kind of a toss up between a RB and a DB for best NFL career... Hmmmmm....
That was NOT the case in the dozen or so years before Andre Ware. You had about an 80% quality player rate among Heisman winners:
RB: Tony Dorsett# Earl Campbell# Billy Sims Charles White George Rogers Marcus Allen# Mike Rozier Bo Jackson Barry Sanders#
WR: Tim Brown
QB: Doug Flutie Vinny Testaverde
Only White was somewhat of a bust.
White had his off-field demons as we know all too well, Gip. He did show some flashes.
But more to the point...
As your lists have pointed out Gip, the chances of a Heisman winner continuing his success at the NFL level has nosedived since it has become a QB competition.
And that is what it is now... a QB competition.
I've never felt as comfortable with Miller as I did with Pryor. The game came easier to Pryor than it seems to with Miller.
They are fundamentally different QB's: Pryor is an athlete put at the QB position, Miller is a thrower put at QB. Neither are true QB's, in my opinion. They just have different qualities that they rely on to make then successful.
Agree, they are very different...
One of the reasons I was always cool towards Pryor was that I thought he was one of those gifted athletes who never had to work at their "craft"... the Poster boy for this feeling being JaMarkus Russell.
In Miller's case I have gotten the feeling that he works pretty hard... but it's just a feeling.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
In the last 20 years only these winners can be said to have had decent NfL careers:
Eddie George Charles Woodson Ricky Williams
Carson Palmer Sam Bradford Cam Newton RGIII...maybe
Kind of a toss up between a RB and a DB for best NFL career... Hmmmmm....
That was NOT the case in the dozen or so years before Andre Ware. You had about an 80% quality player rate among Heisman winners:
RB: Tony Dorsett# Earl Campbell# Billy Sims Charles White George Rogers Marcus Allen# Mike Rozier Bo Jackson Barry Sanders#
WR: Tim Brown
QB: Doug Flutie Vinny Testaverde
Only White was somewhat of a bust.
White had his off-field demons as we know all too well, Gip. He did show some flashes.
But more to the point...
As your lists have pointed out Gip, the chances of a Heisman winner continuing his success at the NFL level has nosedived since it has become a QB competition.
And that is what it is now... a QB competition.
I've never felt as comfortable with Miller as I did with Pryor. The game came easier to Pryor than it seems to with Miller.
They are fundamentally different QB's: Pryor is an athlete put at the QB position, Miller is a thrower put at QB. Neither are true QB's, in my opinion. They just have different qualities that they rely on to make then successful.
Agree, they are very different...
One of the reasons I was always cool towards Pryor was that I thought he was one of those gifted athletes who never had to work at their "craft"... the Poster boy for this feeling being JaMarkus Russell.
In Miller's case I have gotten the feeling that he works pretty hard... but it's just a feeling.
Kind of a toss up between a RB and a DB for best NFL career... Hmmmmm....
White had his off-field demons as we know all too well, Gip. He did show some flashes.
But more to the point...
As your lists have pointed out Gip, the chances of a Heisman winner continuing his success at the NFL level has nosedived since it has become a QB competition.
And that is what it is now... a QB competition.
Agree, they are very different...
One of the reasons I was always cool towards Pryor was that I thought he was one of those gifted athletes who never had to work at their "craft"... the Poster boy for this feeling being JaMarkus Russell.
In Miller's case I have gotten the feeling that he works pretty hard... but it's just a feeling.
I never was a Pryor fan...he wasted more talent than Miller ever had & I can't stand lazy players. Pryor was a classic under achiever at OSU.
Mike
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On the radio today I heard some Scout, analyst or something (of whom I forget his name) saying that he believes strongly that the front office is going to be very aggressive in obtaining one of the top QBs.
I think he said he has worked for the Eagles and the Ravens and perhaps a short time for the Browns.
His take was that Mariota is the most complete package but Bridgewater was right there.
He also confirmed with the ESPN analyst who said, like I've been saying for a while, just because the draft is deep doesn't mean it's a great draft.
I would really hate to see a couple first round picks and something else for Mariota or Bridgewater.
Thereby neglecting our needs that I believe would put us over the top sooner.
Especially if Hoyer and Campbell play like they have played for the short time they've been on the field.
If Hoorta is correct I suppose I could live with AJ McCarron sitting on the bench behind those guys for a while...
WSS
On the radio today I heard some Scout, analyst or something (of whom I forget his name) saying that he believes strongly that the front office is going to be very aggressive in obtaining one of the top QBs.
I think he said he has worked for the Eagles and the Ravens and perhaps a short time for the Browns.
His take was that Mariota is the most complete package but Bridgewater was right there.
He also confirmed with the ESPN analyst who said, like I've been saying for a while, just because the draft is deep doesn't mean it's a great draft.
I would really hate to see a couple first round picks and something else for Mariota or Bridgewater.
Thereby neglecting our needs that I believe would put us over the top sooner.
Especially if Hoyer and Campbell play like they have played for the short time they've been on the field.
If Hoorta is correct I suppose I could live with AJ McCarron sitting on the bench behind those guys for a while...
WSS
Here's the thing, Steve: You have your cake and eat it, too, because we have 10 picks and 30 mill. That's why we traded for that other first round pick in the first place.
Say we sign four significant free agents. We pretty much have to. It's year three of the CBA and we have to meet some four year average, something like that. So let's say we sign another TE to go with Cameron, a serious WR, a corner with size, and a right-side blocker (not that the line is playing bad).
We go into the draft with two obvious needs (quarterback and, much later, RB) and a chance to create competition at safety and ILB. That's basically it. We have TEN FREAKING PICKS!!!
So if you use both firsts and a third to get Mariota... assuming you love the hell out of him and think he's special (everybody does)... then you still have picks in rounds 2 and 3, two in 4, and one in every other round. You can take your RB in 2 or 3 to go with Obie and Dion Lewis. You can take a safety in the other of those two rounds. You can get ILB depth in round 4 (remember, Danny Trevathan was a 6th rounder, they aren't premium). Hell, you can even add another WR in round 5!
See my point? We have more assets than needs... and most of those "needs" aren't first round material. With our youth at receiver and TE, I'd prefer a couple young-ish vets to go with Gordon and Cameron.
This team would be headed for the playoffs with even a "good" quarterback like Hoyer. A serious talent like Mariota? The rest is easy-peasy.
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By the way, a lot of people are starting to believe Derek Carr will be the third QB off the board and go in the top 10. Big arm, mobile, playmaking ability, creative on his release point like Stafford. Some big long-time scout said mark it down, after the Senior Bowl and workouts, Carr is a lock top 10 pick.
Interesting. That might make him a Brown. Sure as hell sick numbers and plenty of starts. Also 6'3" and 215 and normal draft age (!). Much quicker and more mobile than Weeden.
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