Hoyer vs. Campbell
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Let's talk about football instead of each other. That's really shitty.
Anyway: Campbell is the first Browns QB to post back to back 100+ ratings since DA in 2007. I agree that those two late plays (4th and 1 to Bess, flip to Obie) were winning football plays, things great quarterbacks do to create victories.
Should we be surprised? Before his collarbone injury, Campbell seemed headed for an actual quality career with the Raiders. He was playing superb football and getting lots of spin as the next great "late bloomer." What he's doing right now is continuing that arc after a big interruption of healing and then not getting enough reps or opportunity. This is who he is now, a much better quarterback than he was for the first 5-6 years of his career (when he was a total Checkdown Charlie).
I agree with Zombo: Let's enjoy it this year... but be realistic about what it means long-term. He turns 32 soon if he hasn't already. Hoyer turns 29 and he's coming off major knee surgery and has 3 career starts. Neither is our long-term answer... but either could be the short-term mentor and starter.
Which? Right now, homer-ism aside, I don't see how you don't go with Campbell. He has more physical upside and better numbers. Both guys are plenty mobile but Campbell threatens more field than Hoyer can.
Conversely, and just to confuse the hell out of things, Campbell could have some decent trade value on draft day assuming we take a first-round QB, and we'd be fine with Hoyer mentoring the rook. How much would another team pay for a short-term starter to go with THEIR rookie? Say, whoever gets Mariota (I doubt we'll get to him if we win 7 or more games, even with trade assets)?
I'm thinking a high third round pick.
Let's talk about football instead of each other. That's really shitty.
Anyway: Campbell is the first Browns QB to post back to back 100+ ratings since DA in 2007. I agree that those two late plays (4th and 1 to Bess, flip to Obie) were winning football plays, things great quarterbacks do to create victories.
Should we be surprised? Before his collarbone injury, Campbell seemed headed for an actual quality career with the Raiders. He was playing superb football and getting lots of spin as the next great "late bloomer." What he's doing right now is continuing that arc after a big interruption of healing and then not getting enough reps or opportunity. This is who he is now, a much better quarterback than he was for the first 5-6 years of his career (when he was a total Checkdown Charlie).
I agree with Zombo: Let's enjoy it this year... but be realistic about what it means long-term. He turns 32 soon if he hasn't already. Hoyer turns 29 and he's coming off major knee surgery and has 3 career starts. Neither is our long-term answer... but either could be the short-term mentor and starter.
Which? Right now, homer-ism aside, I don't see how you don't go with Campbell. He has more physical upside and better numbers. Both guys are plenty mobile but Campbell threatens more field than Hoyer can.
Conversely, and just to confuse the hell out of things, Campbell could have some decent trade value on draft day assuming we take a first-round QB, and we'd be fine with Hoyer mentoring the rook. How much would another team pay for a short-term starter to go with THEIR rookie? Say, whoever gets Mariota (I doubt we'll get to him if we win 7 or more games, even with trade assets)?
I'm thinking a high third round pick.
Ouch, no trades- though if Campbell continues to post 100+ ratings, his trade value will go through the roof. Hell if he continues to win games, no reason not to let him start next year and let your hot-shot rookie sit and learn for a good part of the season.
As Green Bay just found out- that is an ideal situation- have a couple backup quarterbacks on the roster who can win games. Campbell would be the perfect long term mentor too, assuming he's willing to accept the role.
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Campbell has had better games against better teams than Hoyer. Oh yeah and he has thrown ZERO picks
Campbell has had better games against better teams than Hoyer. Oh yeah and he has thrown ZERO picks
waits for him to throw pick
Fantasy League Updates Weak SexStarted by Zombo, Today, 09:10 AM @slowburn said:okay, bazooka, you win. r u fucking happy now? u got the last word. btw, your avatar and board name really grate my nerves for some reason.. http://thumbpress.com/best-of-surprised-koala-bear-meme-25-pics/ -
Lol at the soju-esque meltdown on this Thread.
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Campbell has had better games against better teams than Hoyer. Oh yeah and he has thrown ZERO picks
waits for him to throw pick
waits for him to throw pick
Of course he'll throw a pick some time. Quite possibly against Cincinnati. But the point is, he's come in and not been flustered, been composed, even in pain and under pressure, and that's a good thing, something completely alien to Weeden.
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That's my point, Hoorta: We only need ONE guy to start while the rook watches for a little while. Either Campbell or Hoyer. Two is kind of overkill. One of those two would be neither the present nor the future and I can't fathom either being okay with that (even if they both stay quiet publicly).
Campbell could make it academic by playing his ass off the rest of the year. But you know the fans want Hoyer. It's a soap opera waiting to happen... after we draft Johnny Football (for Mark O's benefit).
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Honestly I do think it is splitting hairs. Honestly I think they would both have done equally as well if both got to start the entire season. I attribute the fact that Hoyer's stats are worse to the fact that he started his 2nd and 3rd NFL game while Campbell has started too many to count.
It honestly comes down to age for me. Would you had rather seen the 27 year old who you don't know much about start for the season or the journeyman veteran where you mostly know what you are going to get (and I don't say that as a slight since I think Campbell has performed well for most of his career).
Now the real question is who do you start next season, Campbell, Hoyer, or incoming rookie? Hopefully the answer next season is actually the best performer in training camp and not the one who you don't know anything about just to see what you got, aka Weeden.
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I remember him not accounting for the LBs and not doing it again... but I'm just a glass half full kinda guy.
Homerism, shmomerism...
For a starter, I just like the guy who brings energy over the guy who looks like he needs to be checked for a pulse.
But, agree, it is a good choice to have...
Mostly the how... That slo-mo "slide" Jason unveiled was laughable.
How hard could it be for Chud to get Terry Francona on the phone? Or Tito for that matter...
I don't care if our QB has no pulse as long as he doesn't throw interceptions.
I don't care if our QB has no pulse as long as he doesn't throw interceptions.
2-0 QB with 3 INTs vs. 1-1 QB w/ 0 INTs... Hmmmmmm...
Let's talk about football instead of each other. That's really shitty.
Here, here...
And Jason had a couple very strong early years. His YPA is up in two starts for us, but sample size is small as yet.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Campbell never got a very fair shake IMO.
Never had an oline that gave him as much time as ours does, didn't have any real play making receivers that drew coverage to free other guys, etc.
He played great in Oakland for 6 games, however.
He doesn't flail under presser and looks to multiple receiving options on each play (not automatically checking down like he was known for in the past).
As far as hoyer or Campbell, I think both deserve a shot at starting, if Campbell keeps up the performance.
Playing against cincy on the road will be his biggest game yet.
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I don't care if our QB has no pulse as long as he doesn't throw interceptions.
2-0 QB with 3 INTs vs. 1-1 QB w/ 0 INTs... Hmmmmmm...
Let's talk about football instead of each other. That's really shitty.
Here, here...
And Jason had a couple very strong early years. His YPA is up in two starts for us, but sample size is small as yet.
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After seeing how they both played against a common opponent, any who picked Campbell want to change their mind?
:neutral_face: -
After seeing how they both played against a common opponent, any who picked Campbell want to change their mind?
After seeing how they both played against a common opponent, any who picked Campbell want to change their mind?
No, because even with that game, Campbell still has a higher QB rating than Hoyer in games they've started.
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Campbell had a bad game. Hoyer's next game (if not injured) could have been a bad game.
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After seeing how they both played against a common opponent, any who picked Campbell want to change their mind?
After seeing how they both played against a common opponent, any who picked Campbell want to change their mind?
No takers yet?
As easy (and tempting) as it would be to ressurect my "Campbell is shot" argument, he's shown enough to lay that to rest. Plus, as I just posted in another thread, I saw no evidence that he was simply not seeing open receivers all afternoon. The receivers, and the scheme we were running, did not get the job done.
But what I will raise again is the spark that Hoyer brings to the Offense. Campbell seemed detached yesterday. Cool under fire is one thing... but damn near catatonic??? That's no way to lead a team.
The halftime conversation in the Tavern II centered on how many Monster Energies they were feeding him.
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I'll bite, Tour, and change my mind... although I didn't actually vote because I didn't have a strong opinion either way yet and wanted to see more Campbell before deciding.
I give Campbell a little slack because he admitted after the game that he was "protecting himself" a little and the ribs weren't healed, as he'd claimed during the week (right thing to say). But he looked like Bad Jason, the Charlie Checkdown guy who misses throws downfield a lot.
I'd definitely lean into Hoyer, though. Interesting to read that no fewer than three HC candidates brought up Hoyer when asked what they'd do at the QB position. What I would do, and what the Browns will do, is get their guy near the top of the draft and pray for Hoyer's health.
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If there was any doubt that the Browns were going to draft a QB in the first round, I think that was removed yesterday.
I, too, am giving Campbell slack for yesterday because of the ribs and because Marvin Lewis and Mike Zimmer know a thing or two about football.
The Bengals secondary played well and took our wide receivers out of the game, and their pass rush was relentless.
But Campbell just didn't seem "awake" in the first half, and it was one of those games that, before you figured things out, it was too late.
Again ... bad weather, bad ribs, and good coaching scheme by Bungles, so I'm not going to jump on JC's shit this week ... but ... bleh.
Zombo
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I'll bite, Tour, and change my mind... although I didn't actually vote because I didn't have a strong opinion either way yet and wanted to see more Campbell before deciding.
I give Campbell a little slack because he admitted after the game that he was "protecting himself" a little and the ribs weren't healed, as he'd claimed during the week (right thing to say). But he looked like Bad Jason, the Charlie Checkdown guy who misses throws downfield a lot.
I'd definitely lean into Hoyer, though. Interesting to read that no fewer than three HC candidates brought up Hoyer when asked what they'd do at the QB position. What I would do, and what the Browns will do, is get their guy near the top of the draft and pray for Hoyer's health.
I'd definitely lean into Hoyer, though. Interesting to read that no fewer than three HC candidates brought up Hoyer when asked what they'd do at the QB position. What I would do, and what the Browns will do, is get their guy near the top of the draft and pray for Hoyer's health.
Agree, as long as they DON'T trade up shipping a bunch of draft picks to do so. We still need help in other areas, like O-line & I'm not sold on TJ Ward as a good Safety...he gets lost in pass coverage and doesn't tackle well at all.
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If there was any doubt that the Browns were going to draft a QB in the first round, I think that was removed yesterday.
I, too, am giving Campbell slack for yesterday because of the ribs and because Marvin Lewis and Mike Zimmer know a thing or two about football.
The Bengals secondary played well and took our wide receivers out of the game, and their pass rush was relentless.
But Campbell just didn't seem "awake" in the first half, and it was one of those games that, before you figured things out, it was too late.
Again ... bad weather, bad ribs, and good coaching scheme by Bungles, so I'm not going to jump on JC's shit this week ... but ... bleh.
Zombo
Zombo said:
If there was any doubt that the Browns were going to draft a QB in the first round, I think that was removed yesterday.
I, too, am giving Campbell slack for yesterday because of the ribs and because Marvin Lewis and Mike Zimmer know a thing or two about football.
The Bengals secondary played well and took our wide receivers out of the game, and their pass rush was relentless.
But Campbell just didn't seem "awake" in the first half, and it was one of those games that, before you figured things out, it was too late.
Again ... bad weather, bad ribs, and good coaching scheme by Bungles, so I'm not going to jump on JC's shit this week ... but ... bleh.
Zombo
You forgot a couple of "bads": bad luck....for all the turnovers and blocked punts......or is that: bad special teams coaching or bad execution, and bad decision making/execution by Campbell to get picked off so much.
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It was just a bad game, from every aspect besides the defense.
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QB is the main reason the Browns accumulated all those picks, guys. We have 10... and we won't be trading them all to move up! But that's why we have them. Not because we wanna trade up to get a guard. Let's be real here.
Again, we'll obviously be doing other things, but we clearly have the draft picks to move up and get the guy we want. Pretty sure we'll also add a WR and RB and probably a RG.
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