Still celebrating Browns win over ratbirds
-
It all started, thanks to Canton Mike, that he and I went to
the Browns kickass over the ratbirds game.
What a great game to get to go to. That game was a huge sign of things
to come in the very near future.
After I finally got home about midnight - (his daughter and husband
drove us up to the game and back. We tailgated for 3 hrs)....
My Wifie and I headed out the next morning, at 5 AM, to go on a long
road trip.
Oh, btw, there were three ratbird fans across from us, next to the lake.
At one point, I walked over, and explained to them, that the classic
tradition for ratbird and squeeler fans, is that when we beat them,
the opposing fans are supposed to jump in the lake, and swim around to
the ladder...that isn't there.
I told them I didn't expect that, but I couldn't speak for all the other
Browns fans. Anyways, they were really good guys, we joked around,
Canton Mike came over...it was good natured fun. The ratbird fans
said they were in deep crap this year, and a swim might be a good possibility.
Sorry, but I'm rehashing this, because we just got in from Missouri
last night, at midnight.
So, I'm just trying to catch up before we start breakfast. Which,
I would have started already, but I can't find my Duck Dynasty recipe
for biscuits with 7-Up in them.
But what a great, great win. This team is about 3 players away from
stomping into a division title next year.
So, after all the excitement of watching the Browns win in great fashion,
I got 4 hrs sleep after doing a bit of small packing , we
took off for Kentucky, from Ohio. Went to Mammoth Cave and camped. Beautiful campground.
Set up our -tent-, she loves tent camping (the Proper Camping Protocol
for Women, "hot showers and clean, flush toilet bathrooms")...applies here.
So, Mammoth Cave is amazing. Went on a shorter tour, and got quite an
education about it. From down in the cave, the cave from that point
goes on for about 400 miles. No one person has ever explored all of it.
Sad part is, on the tour, at one point, some pervs scratched
their initials on the beautiful walls within reach. What the hell
is up with that? It's sickening. Like with Pilot Mnt. in NC this
past summer when we stayed with close friends - initials scatched
into rock walls, and coke cans tossed into a crevice next to
the trail.
I don't understand that. Does anybody understand that? It's sad,
sad commentary on the lack of respect for nature, the outdoors,
other people, and themselves, I figure.
It got down to 44 degrees overnight. I had built a campfire (male camping
protocol).. and we had sandwiches, watched the fire, took a walk,
and ended up walking next to a deer about 15 feet away..
We were fine - have all the right stuff and know-how to sleep and keep warm in
that weather. It was great - until my Wife had to take a middle of the night
trip to the bathroom about 35 yds away. I always make sure
I walk her. I just do - she's that precious to me. So, she has to wake
me up, and I jump up and we go. That's my rule.
Then, getting up about 3 AM, it's a cold walk. Really nice heated
bathrooms. Classy, beautiful campground. Young deer walking here
and there. I didn't have a shirt on, and my feet were naked.
Very cold, but hey, it was dark, and it's a matter of Love.
The next morning, we packed up, and hit the road again, putting
the Browns win road trip agenda into action once more. -
Camping and Browns football... What a thread!
-
Our next stop was Diamond Crater Mine, in Arkansas. I usually pronounce it
the way it is spelled, emphasizing "..sas". But I had to stop, because my wife
gave me the Wifie "That's enough, now" look.
We got in late, after dark. It rained right after we pitched our tent,
and had munchies around the campfire. So, we retired early. And it
rained very heavily off and on all night.
We took our old, smaller tent, because it it quick to put up, compared
to our new, fancy, big Jeep tent. But, after campouts and being in storage
for a few years..it wasn't waterproof anymore. did "ok", but stuff on the floor
got wet. Oh, we went to Walmart and bought a new inflatable mattress, double-high.
The old one leaked a bit, and although it was good for big laughs in morning,
that one night was the limit. The new double high is awesome.
So, we went to the diamond mine and went out to seek our fortune. It was
still drizzling rain, though. and was still a bit chilly. No longer dirt,
you dig up mud, carry it a ways to the slough, and pan for gems and pretty,
worthless rocks until your hands wrinkle, turn a weird looking pinkish white,
and you give it up, because you never found any diamonds, and your dexterity
is plummetting.
Being the man, it was my job to get the dirt to the slough. Remember, it's raining.
Sloshing through the mud, carrying a 3/4 bucket of muddy gravel is ridiculous.
I kept getting stuck here and there, my boots would get sucked into the ground,
so I finally ended up putting about 20 lbs of mud back out of the bucket.
After that, it only weighed about 80 lbs. No diamonds, had fun, happily
went back to camp. Of course, we had packed up everything and checked out of camp,
before going out to mine. It was still drizzling rain when we shed our rain gear,
tossed it onto our wet stuff in the back, and headed out.
Oh, one more thing. When we checked out, I had personally talked to that officeover the phone,days before,
and "Mean Judy" told me we'd be fine, to just pick a site that evening, tent camp,
and pay in the morning. Which, we did.
Tent camping is 8 bucks. Camping with a camper is 34. so, I went to pay
for our site. She asked which site we camped on, and I told her.
She said that would be 34 bucks. We were a bit stunned, but explained
that we were only tent camping. Mean Judy explained that we had chosen
one of the improved sites, with water, sewer and electric. We explained
that our tent doesn't have plumbing, and doesn't have wiring, either.
Mean Judy looked at us stupidly, and said "34 dollars, and you
didn't say you wanted a TENT campsite. We only have 6 of those, and
those are walk-in.
so, we said it was late, it was dark, and most of the campground was
EMPTY, and but she interrupted us, and said, "okay, I'll give you the senior
discount - 25%. That will be 27 bucks. So, we paid it, but please, if you
ever go there, tell Mean Judy she's a nasty, stupid warthog for me.
So, we headed for Louisiana. -
Only a few folks were camping ...@@, so the campgrounds were mostly empty. So,
although I was looking for Browns attire, that wasn't likely.
We ended up in West Munroe, Louisiana, after dark. It drizzled rain off and on
the entire way. And the drive there shows that a lot of poor folks live way, way,
way out in the boondocks of Ark., to avoid revenuers. So, with most of our stuff
damp, or worse...we opted to stay in a hotel for the night. Adventure is fun,
but discretion is the better part of valor, right?
So, we ended up staying at the Quality Inn. Real nice. Oh, we were on our
way to Texas to see the father-in-law, so we stopped over at West Munroe,
because we are big Duck Dynasty fans. Yes, seriously. We learned that the nice
lady behind the counter at the inn, her son was best friends with Willy Robertson,
of Duck Dynasty fame, and owned a locally famous deli. That's where "Uncle Si" rode
his "handicapped" scooter to for lunch, in a hilarious dispute with Willie.
Which, really happened. Her son was on TV on the show. And to this day, Si gets
his tea from that deli every single day. Really. And Si is the only one who has
no scripted lines in the show. He does all adlib.
I highly recommend this inn, it is nice, and the hot breakfast includes
scrambled and boiled eggs, sausage patties, and waffles. So, we loaded up,
and were having breakfast, when I decided to make a waffle, now that the waffle maker
was available. I was making my waffle, while watching Brad Paisley and Carrie Underwood
singing a satire country song, ridiculing Obamaocare, on the news on the TV.
All of a sudden, a few secs after I closed the filled waffle maker, it started
spewing steam out, and the warning beep went berserk, and stuff started oozing
and popping, and the really nice lady who works there at the kitchenette, came up
and the conversation went like this:
Lady: "Hon, how much did you put into it?"
Me: "Oh, I wasn't paying attention, didn't think it was too much..."
Lady: "What mix did you put in it?"
Me: "Just the usual, this stuff right here"
Lady: "Oh, honey, I'm sorry, but that's the sausage gravy for the biscuits".
Rest of folks at tables: "LOL"
dammit. So, the really sweet lady cleaned it up, after I tried, and couldn't
make much headway. She said not to feel bad, because it happens on a regular
basis. I think she lied to make me feel better.
After she fixed me a waffle, and I apologized for the third time, I sat down,
and naturally, my Wife stopped laughing, and said "I can't take you anywhere".
Well, I was hoping for some sports news, maybe on the Browns. Nope.
Oh, the night before, we went to the new "Willie's Duck Diner". It's run by
a friend of his. I had the Swamp Basket. Fried Shrimp, alligator, crawfish,
and duck strips. It was okay, next time I'd just go to Willie's friend's deli.
We went to the now famous Duck Commander factory, where they have a new little store.
which was part of their warehouse there...
Walked around, saw stuff, and a guy who worked there came up and asked where
we were from. He talked to us for a while, and then confided to us, that if
we were such big fans, we could hang around for 40 minutes, and Phil Robertson
himself would be there to personally make his one millionth duck call..that year.
So, we did, and had a front line ..stand, 15 feet away from Phil, so I have that
on my little camcorder. Very cool to see him in person. They say he gets 300 to
400 requests for personal appearances...every single day. Incredible. Phil
and Kay can't go to the store or anything anymore, unless it's closed and in
secret. And they had to put up a fancy fence to stop traffic driving up
their long drivway to the old original house that they still live in.
Amazing story - btw, Phil, Willie and his Wife, and Si have all written
books. they are great, and I highly recommend them as Christmas presents.
I refrained from buying one of their expensive version duck calls, ggg,
and we hit the road that after noon, for Texas.
And point of information - the lonely roads between West Munroe,
to Texas? Telephone pole company, high speed lumber semis,
and woods. And zero ATT service. I would never drive that stretch
at night. Just sayin. -
Oh, and another rec from me:
Being big Duck Dynasty fans, we went to Walmart and bought their Christmas CD, the deluxe version
with stickers, etc, and words and other fun stuff with it. The album is professionally done.
And some songs are very funny. And several are very beautiful. This ranks right up at the very top
of any Christmas music I've ever heard, right alongside the old Alabama Christmas CD.
So, Texas was again boring. The usual. I don't like Texas. Red ants, too much traffic... cockroaches.
So, on we went to our finally vacation stop - Branson, MO. Branson had Veterans week there, and in different states,
it was really great to see veterans being asked if they were vets, and then thanked for their service.
That is a good thing about Texas. Went to the giant Pro Bass hq in Springfield Mo., near Branson. That is an awesome
place to go, I think it's about 3-4 times the size of Cabela's in WV. Still no Browns fans.
We also went to the Branson Veterans Day parade. I wonder why more folks don't have those. It was great.
We missed Ollie North, who appeared at a book signing at Pro Bass, and also at the parade. He was late
getting in on the plane, and we didn't have all day.
We did see the Canadian Rockies Express movie at the IMAX. I got in free because I'm a veteran.
Veterans came from all over to Branson for this week. I never knew that. It was an honor to be around
all these older WWII veterans. They were everywhere. Anyways, that movie is awesome.
The other notable thing was, seeing the Armed Forces museum. It was pretty cool, and the different rooms
had the names of all those American soldiers who died in different wars. The room for WWII, was the only place
in the world where all those Americans who died in WWII are listed. The deep, long room has 10' high walls.
And on all three sides of actual wall. all those names are listed from ceiling to floor edging.
That's in about size 16 font, friends. It's stunning, and somber. I saw two very senior men walk out
of the museum as we walked in. They had WWII veterans caps and jackets on. They were wiping tears
from their eyes. When we got to the WWII section...we knew why.
Wrong time of year for football jerseys - we did watch the Cowboys play in Branson, but
fell asleep before the 4th quarter..
In closing, it's going on Thanksgiving, so THANK YOU to all veterans everywhere.
And, btw, Here's a book Christmas present tip:
Any book by the Duck Dyansty folks is funny, but also very serious about where they came from,
and how they struggled in the early years.
But we finished Phil Robertson's more serious one, on the way to Arkansas, and sent to two
other options. My Wife loves for me to read them while she drives.
One was Billy Crystal's book "Still foolin em", a story about his life. it sucked. Fbombs right and left, and weird, perverted
references to his sexual parts right and left and it wasn't funny. I quit after one paragraph, and skimmed
through it an eighth of an inch at a time, and kept trying to find anything different. Nope. More fbombs
and weird, sick references to his parts. I'm either going to throw it in the garbage, or sell it on Ebay.
I don't know what commission I'd pay on a quarter it would probably go for. Billy Crystal can be funny/quirky. But his
book is garbage.
The other book was Tim Conway's book "What's So Funny", a story about his life. I sprained my face, and literally had
trouble reading this book, because it isn't just funny, it's FUNNY. I nearly choked on a hamburger while reading to
myself for a few minutes, when I started to lol, This happened every page, several times. Finally, I had to take a break
because I think I sprained my face from trying to not laugh so I could read. And that was page 28. So, I had
to pace myself after that. My Wife was laughing so much while driving I had to offer up the box of tissues.
Seriously - I often laughed so hard I couldn't read anymore for a while. And this book would
be a great gift for anyone, young or old.
Tim Conway's book for Christmas. Trust me. He is surely the funniest crazy person on our planet.
And, it was the Browns bye week, so I didn't even miss the game. Can't wait til Sunday. The End.
-
So? Cal, were you born a poor black child? Since we get to hear the story of your life?
-
Maybe someday. After I finish my years-in-the-writing adventure novel, that is still
only up to 87 percent finished.
BTW, I forgot one part in the middle. So, I think this will be called an addendum, maybe.
We had traveled about 1300 miles camping and adventuring. Remember I always man up
and walk my wonderful Wife to the bathroom in the middle of the morning?
Well, one night, at 3 AM, she hurriedly shook me awake, and asked me if I could
go for a walk with her to the bathroom. I had been fast asleep, and said "Always, Hon"...and quickly sat up
to throw my clothes on and escort her.
The next split second, she bear-hugged me, and pulled me back into our covers,
laughing in my ear, kissing me on my face, laughing, laughing laughing.
Yes, she had set her alarm for 3 AM, to wake me up...in our hotel room.
It isn't the first time I've thought to ask her if she is secretly kin to Tim Conway.
Oh yeah, and I tipped the really nice lady 5 bucks because I scrapped out the waffle maker...
-
Maybe someday. After I finish my years-in-the-writing adventure novel, that is still
only up to 87 percent finished.
BTW, I forgot one part in the middle. So, I think this will be called an addendum, maybe.
We had traveled about 1300 miles camping and adventuring. Remember I always man up
and walk my wonderful Wife to the bathroom in the middle of the morning?
Well, one night, at 3 AM, she hurriedly shook me awake, and asked me if I could
go for a walk with her to the bathroom. I had been fast asleep, and said "Always, Hon"...and quickly sat up
to throw my clothes on and escort her.
The next split second, she bear-hugged me, and pulled me back into our covers,
laughing in my ear, kissing me on my face, laughing, laughing laughing.
Yes, she had set her alarm for 3 AM, to wake me up...in our hotel room.
It isn't the first time I've thought to ask her if she is secretly kin to Tim Conway.
Oh yeah, and I tipped the really nice lady 5 bucks because I scrapped out the waffle maker...
Maybe someday. After I finish my years-in-the-writing adventure novel, that is still
only up to 87 percent finished.
BTW, I forgot one part in the middle. So, I think this will be called an addendum, maybe.
We had traveled about 1300 miles camping and adventuring. Remember I always man up
and walk my wonderful Wife to the bathroom in the middle of the morning?
Well, one night, at 3 AM, she hurriedly shook me awake, and asked me if I could
go for a walk with her to the bathroom. I had been fast asleep, and said "Always, Hon"...and quickly sat up
to throw my clothes on and escort her.
The next split second, she bear-hugged me, and pulled me back into our covers,
laughing in my ear, kissing me on my face, laughing, laughing laughing.
Yes, she had set her alarm for 3 AM, to wake me up...in our hotel room.
It isn't the first time I've thought to ask her if she is secretly kin to Tim Conway.
Well? Did she then jump your bones? (Otherwise what would have been the point, eh?)
-
At Cal's age, that was enough excitement.
-
Loose lips sink ships. Discretion is the better part of valor,
a stitch in time saves nine, and .... I forget the others....
-
So? Cal, were you born a poor black child? Since we get to hear the story of your life?
So? Cal, were you born a poor black child? Since we get to hear the story of your life?
THE JERK!
"HE HATES THESE CANS!!!!! GET AWAY FROM THE CANS!!!"
-
Maybe someday. After I finish my years-in-the-writing adventure novel, that is still
only up to 87 percent finished.
BTW, I forgot one part in the middle. So, I think this will be called an addendum, maybe.
We had traveled about 1300 miles camping and adventuring. Remember I always man up
and walk my wonderful Wife to the bathroom in the middle of the morning?
Well, one night, at 3 AM, she hurriedly shook me awake, and asked me if I could
go for a walk with her to the bathroom. I had been fast asleep, and said "Always, Hon"...and quickly sat up
to throw my clothes on and escort her.
The next split second, she bear-hugged me, and pulled me back into our covers,
laughing in my ear, kissing me on my face, laughing, laughing laughing.
Yes, she had set her alarm for 3 AM, to wake me up...in our hotel room.
It isn't the first time I've thought to ask her if she is secretly kin to Tim Conway.
Oh yeah, and I tipped the really nice lady 5 bucks because I scrapped out the waffle maker...
-
Ah...I loved that stupid movie. Steve Martin in the Jerk. Yeah, I caught the "poor black child" ref. lol
And, Mr. Hoorta, we would have walked over to the Brownsboard
tailgate, but we were on the west side of the stadium, next to the lake, and you guys
are in the muni lot, which I think is about 10 miles away......
I would like to do that in 2014. Maybe a helicopter pickup there and back...
Canton Mike and I will figure it out....
-
Ah...I loved that stupid movie. Steve Martin in the Jerk. Yeah, I caught the "poor black child" ref. lol
And, Mr. Hoorta, we would have walked over to the Brownsboard
tailgate, but we were on the west side of the stadium, next to the lake, and you guys
are in the muni lot, which I think is about 10 miles away......
I would like to do that in 2014. Maybe a helicopter pickup there and back...
Canton Mike and I will figure it out....
Ah...I loved that stupid movie. Steve Martin in the Jerk. Yeah, I caught the "poor black child" ref. lol
And, Mr. Hoorta, we would have walked over to the Brownsboard
tailgate, but we were on the west side of the stadium, next to the lake, and you guys
are in the muni lot, which I think is about 10 miles away......
I would like to do that in 2014. Maybe a helicopter pickup there and back...
Canton Mike and I will figure it out....
No, the Browns Board tailgate is also on the west side, under the Detroit Superior bridge.
-
No, the Browns Board tailgate is also on the west side, under the Detroit Superior bridge. Gip
********************************************
Crap. I didn't know that. Learn somethin every day....
-
No, the Browns Board tailgate is also on the west side, under the Detroit Superior bridge. Gip
********************************************
Crap. I didn't know that. Learn somethin every day....
No, the Browns Board tailgate is also on the west side, under the Detroit Superior bridge. Gip
********************************************
Crap. I didn't know that. Learn somethin every day....
you and wifey can always invest in a roto scooter and have them customized and done up with brown colors and have like a big dawg head for a rain cover.
sounds like a great trip. i wouldn't go camping anywhere nowadays unless i was packing. drove through missouri many times, the only stop i had was late 1980 ft. leonardwood for basic training. yes it was winter and it was friggin colder than growing up on lake erie.
last time i went camping, i got the obligatory BJ on the picnic table, drank a 12 of busch beer (blech...trying to fit in with the yokels) and had a thunder and lightning storm in the middle of the night which scared my dog sooo much that she shit all over my girlfriend.
all the dogs we've ever had run to her and love her to death. either it's the peanut butter or the fact that i'm a mean miserable prick.
at least i don't get shit on.
-peace!
-
No, the Browns Board tailgate is also on the west side, under the Detroit Superior bridge. Gip
********************************************
Crap. I didn't know that. Learn somethin every day....
you and wifey can always invest in a roto scooter and have them customized and done up with brown colors and have like a big dawg head for a rain cover.
sounds like a great trip. i wouldn't go camping anywhere nowadays unless i was packing. drove through missouri many times, the only stop i had was late 1980 ft. leonardwood for basic training. yes it was winter and it was friggin colder than growing up on lake erie.
last time i went camping, i got the obligatory BJ on the picnic table, drank a 12 of busch beer (blech...trying to fit in with the yokels) and had a thunder and lightning storm in the middle of the night which scared my dog sooo much that she shit all over my girlfriend.
all the dogs we've ever had run to her and love her to death. either it's the peanut butter or the fact that i'm a mean miserable prick.
at least i don't get shit on.
-peace!
you and wifey can always invest in a roto scooter and have them customized and done up with brown colors and have like a big dawg head for a rain cover.
sounds like a great trip. i wouldn't go camping anywhere nowadays unless i was packing. drove through missouri many times, the only stop i had was late 1980 ft. leonardwood for basic training. yes it was winter and it was friggin colder than growing up on lake erie.
last time i went camping, i got the obligatory BJ on the picnic table, drank a 12 of busch beer (blech...trying to fit in with the yokels) and had a thunder and lightning storm in the middle of the night which scared my dog sooo much that she shit all over my girlfriend.
all the dogs we've ever had run to her and love her to death. either it's the peanut butter or the fact that i'm a mean miserable prick.
at least i don't get shit on.
-peace!
Hehe- last summer may well have been my last big time camping trip. The Nephew wanted to see the mountains- and Uncle Larry obliged. So I took him up Middle Teton. Without going into too many details- yeah, It's damn spectacular- but I seriously paid for the 17 hour round trip ordeal to get back to the car. Landing a 300 pound boulder on my foot was just the start of it.
And if you're interested- that's at the top of the SW Coulior of Middle Teton- One of the few routes in the Tetons you don't need to bring out the climbing hardware- that adds another 30 pounds of stuff you need to haul up there. The summit is only about another 100 feet or so. I wasn't about to stand on the summit block- its a 45 degree slab of granite, and should you fall the wrong way, it's about 2,000' airmail down to Lupine Meadows. Iceflow Lake is about is 3,000' below in the background, and that haze is damn forest fires that were burning everywhere last summer.
-
Still, awesome Hoorta.
-
sounds like a great trip. i wouldn't go camping anywhere nowadays unless i was packing. Mik
*****************************************
I was, Mik. On advice from a few folks, we stopped in Mo. on the way back,
locked it in it's case stored in the back, and drove straight through Illinois.
Fed law, you know. Otherwise, I was good the whole trip, cept in Texas of all places,
but locking it up anywhere is okay. You can't carry outside your car, unless it's just
to take it into your house/room/etc. And a tent is considered a place of residence,
at least in Ohio.
Interesting side note: When we went to the movie, I actually called the manager
and asked him about cc, noting that I never saw any "no guns" signs in Mo....
axplained I was from Ohio...
he said as long as it is concealed, it was fine. Cool.
Yeah, camping this time of year is a good bit...un-crowded.
And Mr. Hoorta, that is awesome ! Though, I can't see myself doing that hike, even
after
I get my new knee next year...maybe. But if I did, I'd do a bit of prospecting...
-
sounds like a great trip. i wouldn't go camping anywhere nowadays unless i was packing. Mik
*****************************************
I was, Mik. On advice from a few folks, we stopped in Mo. on the way back,
locked it in it's case stored in the back, and drove straight through Illinois.
Fed law, you know. Otherwise, I was good the whole trip, cept in Texas of all places,
but locking it up anywhere is okay. You can't carry outside your car, unless it's just
to take it into your house/room/etc. And a tent is considered a place of residence,
at least in Ohio.
Interesting side note: When we went to the movie, I actually called the manager
and asked him about cc, noting that I never saw any "no guns" signs in Mo....
axplained I was from Ohio...
he said as long as it is concealed, it was fine. Cool.
Yeah, camping this time of year is a good bit...un-crowded.
And Mr. Hoorta, that is awesome ! Though, I can't see myself doing that hike, even
after
I get my new knee next year...maybe. But if I did, I'd do a bit of prospecting...
And Mr. Hoorta, that is awesome ! Though, I can't see myself doing that hike, even
after
I get my new knee next year...maybe. But if I did, I'd do a bit of prospecting...
If you want to do prospecting, I'd recommend the Black Hills. There really is still some gold in them thar hills. We did Harney Peak there as a warmup hike, and lots of glittery stuff on the trail. There's a thing called the Highpointers Club, (top of all 50 states) and Harney is the high point of South Dakota. Knocked another one off, but I'm never going to get all 50, and plenty of people have.
It ranges from the Elbright Azimuth in Delaware
to Mount McKinley, this one is out of my reach.
The highpoint of North America. (incidentally in this picture McKinley is over 20 miles away) I've been on McKinley a couple of times, and buzzed base camp in a Cessna. For those that have been to Colorado Springs, Denali (geez I hate to use McKinley) from there is double the size of Pikes Peak from outside of town. If you want to make the attempt, you can seriously die up there- and as the Ranger Station in Talkeetna says, you get in trouble up top, we won't necessarily be able to save your ass. It's one of the most hostile environments on the planet. The Arctic Research Institute put a weather station at high camp one year (17,000'), and the warmest it got was 17 degrees, Wind chills in a storm can easily reach -50 or colder. I was at the Sheldon Cabin @ the balmy 5,000' level the first day of summer, and it snowed.
PS you can ride a bike to the top of Indiana- Hoosier Hill, I'd hesitate to call it that, and Campbell Hill here in Ohio.
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