Who we are?
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mz. said:
Or we have become a nation of 80 IQ chimpanzees who personify the lowest common denominator.No! we have become a nation of men raised by women.
that explains all the fairies.
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I really don't think that there was ever such a thing as an American spirit. We are world leaders purely because of our size and natural resources, which allowed us to become the wealthiest nation. If we were truly the greatest nation like the idea of the american spirit, then how come our GDP per capita isn't the highest in the world? How come our education system is lacking? How come our voter turnout is always so low? How come we don't produce more top-level athletes, musicians, scientists and other academics, considering how large our country is in terms of population?
I am not saying that our country isn't great, because it is. I just don't think there is some mystical American spirit that throws us ahead of all other countries. We simply were fortunate enough to have plentiful natural resources and lots of land.
Oh yeah, and immigrants built the country.
Oh yeah, and immigrants built the country.
Exactly. I remember hearing from a foreign policy specialist that our military dominance isn't really contested. We spend so much on defense and are so far ahead of everyone else technologically that we could stop a country like China from even entering into competition with us.
What worried him instead was that the post-9/11 restrictions & regulations on student visas would prevent the brightest foreign students from coming to the US, thereby denying our higher-level science and R&D the next Bill Gates or Jonas Salk. If we lose those minds, we'll fall behind economically, making our military/entitlements combo even more unsustainable.
The fp specialist cited an amazing statistic: there are more Western European science PhD's working in the United States than there are working in all of Western Europe. If that reverses itself, we're screwed.
And if I remember correctly, Thomas Friedman makes a similar case in The World is Flat about the developing world, arguing that globalization makes the genius in Bangalore starting his business at home more likely.
But even if this "flattening" is inevitable, we shouldn't be scaring brilliant minds away by imposing long visa waiting periods and Lou Dobbsifying our politics. That just hurts us even more.
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Oh yeah, and immigrants built the country.
Exactly. I remember hearing from a foreign policy specialist that our military dominance isn't really contested. We spend so much on defense and are so far ahead of everyone else technologically that we could stop a country like China from even entering into competition with us.
What worried him instead was that the post-9/11 restrictions & regulations on student visas would prevent the brightest foreign students from coming to the US, thereby denying our higher-level science and R&D the next Bill Gates or Jonas Salk. If we lose those minds, we'll fall behind economically, making our military/entitlements combo even more unsustainable.
The fp specialist cited an amazing statistic: there are more Western European science PhD's working in the United States than there are working in all of Western Europe. If that reverses itself, we're screwed.
And if I remember correctly, Thomas Friedman makes a similar case in The World is Flat about the developing world, arguing that globalization makes the genius in Bangalore starting his business at home more likely.
But even if this "flattening" is inevitable, we shouldn't be scaring brilliant minds away by imposing long visa waiting periods and Lou Dobbsifying our politics. That just hurts us even more.
Aloysius said:
Exactly. I remember hearing from a foreign policy specialist that our military dominance isn't really contested. We spend so much on defense and are so far ahead of everyone else technologically that we could stop a country like China from even entering into competition with us.But even if this "flattening" is inevitable, we shouldn't be scaring brilliant minds away by imposing long visa waiting periods and Lou Dobbsifying our politics. That just hurts us even more.
I doubt the idea is to scare off the best and brightest from around the world.
If the left is so concerned that wages go down when millions of unskilled laborers flood in illegally keep in mind doctors and engineers need to earn a living too,
WSS
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I honestly don't understand what your point is.
Let's keep it a little more simple. Just tell me:
- whether you agreed with my post
- how I'm being a hypocrite
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Aloysius said:
Exactly. I remember hearing from a foreign policy specialist that our military dominance isn't really contested. We spend so much on defense and are so far ahead of everyone else technologically that we could stop a country like China from even entering into competition with us.But even if this "flattening" is inevitable, we shouldn't be scaring brilliant minds away by imposing long visa waiting periods and Lou Dobbsifying our politics. That just hurts us even more.
I doubt the idea is to scare off the best and brightest from around the world.
If the left is so concerned that wages go down when millions of unskilled laborers flood in illegally keep in mind doctors and engineers need to earn a living too,
WSS
Alo: I honestly don't understand what your point is.
Let's keep it a little more simple. Just tell me:
whether you agreed with my post
You just being contrary or you really didn't understand?
OK your post was to "immigrants built this country."
Fine yes indeed.
So then you seem to complain that post 9?11 restrictions make it harder for "students" to come to the US.
Probably so.
(my though is that some decidedly politically incorrect profiling would be good but..)
But shall I repeat that it isn't the best and brightest we're trying to keep out.
how I'm being a hypocrite
If I thought you were count on me to say it point blank,
I say the bulk of the immigrants who "built this country" were the poor people who worked cheaper that the ones before them.
So apples and oranges.
WSS
I doubt the idea is to scare off the best and brightest from around the world.
If the left is so concerned that wages go down when millions of unskilled laborers flood in illegally keep in mind doctors and engineers need to earn a living too,
WSS
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Okay. In my book, it doesn't matter whether the intent is to keep PhD candidates out of the country. That's the effect of the policy.
There may be security benefits resulting from the policy, but I bet there's a more efficient way to achieve the same results.
And about immigrants driving down wages...I guess? That certainly was the anti-immigration argument in the 1920's, and it's one that's used today. Not sure I've seen empirical evidence to back it up, but it could be true.
But I don't really see what the point is. That wage effect was likely insignificant relative to what they contributed to this country.
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Okay. In my book, it doesn't matter whether the intent is to keep PhD candidates out of the country. That's the effect of the policy.
There may be security benefits resulting from the policy, but I bet there's a more efficient way to achieve the same results.
And about immigrants driving down wages...I guess? That certainly was the anti-immigration argument in the 1920's, and it's one that's used today. Not sure I've seen empirical evidence to back it up, but it could be true.
But I don't really see what the point is. That wage effect was likely insignificant relative to what they contributed to this country.
Aloysius said:
Okay. In my book, it doesn't matter whether the intent is to keep PhD candidates out of the country. That's the effect of the policy.There may be security benefits resulting from the policy, but I bet there's a more efficient way to achieve the same results.
Like I said so do I but it's not politically correct.
And about immigrants driving down wages...I guess? That certainly was the anti-immigration argument in the 1920's, and it's one that's used today. Not sure I've seen empirical evidence to back it up, but it could be true.
Been that way as long as there have been people who did shitty jobs cheap.
But I don't really see what the point is. That wage effect was likely insignificant relative to what they contributed to this country.
It isn't particularly my take but it's the take of the unions.
I don't think college kids will pick lettuce during spring break for any money.....
Or the kids of the migrants once they're citizens.
WSS
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Why complain about freakin restrictions to visas because of preventing terrorism ... WITH NO SOLUTION ?
What the hell IS the point? The brightest minds aren't being kept out on purpose, unless they are TERRORISTS...
But what is the SOLUTION ? Where is the freakin logic ?
If restrictions are a problem, figure out why they are, and solve that problem. I mean, whining about
restrictions...
what do you want? No restrictions and terrorism, dammit?
I wouldn't think so, at least now that Bush is no longer in the White House...
so, you have to control who comes into this country. I know that takes time to get a visa, and
a lot of folks don't get their visas, only so many can come into this terrible country with a terrible economy
and a terrible government and a terrible way of life... @@
if the point is, to double our screening and processing efforts to expedite the issuing of deserved visas
for those folks to come here, that is a great thing. But it's a big world, and terrorism is all over it.
my friend from India didn't have a problem, but others he met never did get a chance for a visa, and they were
far more accomplished and just as terrific a person as he is, but... they just didn't get approved, or it took
forever and twenty thousand Sundays...
It isn't restrictions or no restrictions. That is simply an emotionist, elitist perspective of the associated problem of
a bad side of the current restrictions. If you have restrictions that restrict those who shouldn't be restricted, or you have
no restrictions, there are big problems, ya?
Then analyze the shortcomings and resolve them. Look at the details of the big picture that are the problem, Al.
Do liberals sell a great car because an ashtray fell out and spilled ashes on the rear floor carpet?
Blow the car up, buy another car, sue the auto manufacturer, yell for a car bailout ?... or... maybe FIX THE FREAKIN ASHTRAY AND CLEAN THE CARPET...
Does anybody else think keeping "the brightest minds" out of our country is a deliberate conspiracy or a reason
to not have restrictions?
I haven't had breakfast yet, but I have done a great job on the garage til the phone rang twice...
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I do have a gripe, myself, though...
far too many green cards are going to people from around the world, like India...
to work here because the money is great.
But, they are leaving work cultures where work is their entire life... they work
14-18 hrs a day most of the time.
That's why my friend from India loves it here.
But, I know for a FACT, personally witnessed, that a good number of those folks
will come here and work 12 hours a day, because that is what they do, and they will do it
for a lot less money, because that's still a lot more than they could make back home.
And, on salary, why would an employer hire an American with the exact same skills?
Because we live here, and have families, and lives outside of work.
I have known folks from India, who all lived in one sponsored house (rented/owned by their consultant co.),
who have no family here, obviously in a very different culture...
and Americans end up going out of work, and can't compete. I won't even attribute the anti-family trend in corporate
America to liberalism, but rather, greed by upper and middle management.
THAT is a serious problem, and needs to have restrictions on it's occurence.
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we need to close the borders and Americans need to get off there lazy butts and go to work instead of crying and wanting welfare for all.
like my dad used to say, if you dont do your chores, you dont eat.
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