Has Paul Kruger been a disappointment?
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I liked the pickup initially and I like the guy, but I haven't really seen the productivity out of him I thought we were going to get.
Thoughts?
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For his contract he has been a disappointment but I'm not calling bust yet. One of few things I agree with NFL coaches on is the simple fact that each player on each side of the ball is fairly reliant on their teammates for success.
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From watching him, he is always around where the ball is but just not quite getting tackles or sacks. He just a little lazy because he got a fat contract? Who knows..
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For the money, yes. While I see the guy collapsing the pocket all the time, the sacks just aren't there for him.
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I know a little bit about pass rushing since I used to play on the line. Obviously I never played near this guys level but I do notice technique, especially when I go to the games and get a good look at how our trench guys try to beat their man. From the very beginning of the season I wasn't seeing stellar stuff from kruger. I didn't really notice him when he played in Blt so I don't know what he was doing differently there if at all. But here his pass rush is anemic. He's an "awesome" bull rusher. The first couple games of the season he had all kinds of tackles pushed back into the qb. Problem was that the qb's were able to get rid of the ball way too quick. Ok, so you can say he sets the timer low...so the ability of the qb's to make completions in 2-3 seconds can't really be put on the pass rush..that's on our secondary and LB'ers. What I saw though was that when he tried to anything else other than bullrushing, he was "terrible". His edge rush was so bad at the beginning of the season that the tackles could just basically take that play off and lean on him right out off the edge. It didn't require alot of effort. By about the 4th or 5th game the O line coaches were on to Kruger and the tackles just stuck their butts out behind em and that stifled his bullrush. He absolutely cannot keep tackles honest on that now. They sit on the bullrush and if he goes outside it's with so little leverage that they're not worried about it. When Kruger does get around the edge now he went out too wide. He doesn't dig in "whatsoever". When I talk about digging in, I'm talking about what Matthews does out in GB. He's one of the best in the NFL at carving off the edge. He goes horizontal when he's coming around the corner, this reduces the angle to the qb. And Matthews is faster but smaller than Kruger so he should be the one taking the wider arcs to the QB. Not the 6'5 275lb monster. Kruger should be way better at that which would make his bullrush that much better. Matthews is one of the best bullrushing OLB'ers in the league because tackles have to respect his outside rush. I want Kruger to work out here but so far, I dunno. He's cleaned up his run support for sure, it will be interesting to see where he's rated at the end of the year when those rankings come out. I don't think I ever saw him get sealed inside the whole season but I could be wrong.
In the end though we didn't pay 8m for a guy just to stop the run. He needs to be "at least" a 10 sack guy for that money. Honestly he should be getting 15 sacks easy with his physical abilities. It is possible though that if our secondary gets better next year, which it should....that the qb's will have to hold the ball a split second longer and that allows our outside guys to get home. It would be interesting to compare tape with say, the KC pass rush. If the qb's take the same amount of time on average to get rid of the ball against KC as they do with Cleveland, than there really is no excuse for the fact that the 240lb undersized rookie is leading the LB'ers in sacks. When we played KC, their two outside guys combined had 20 sacks and our whole defense had 19. That was just ludicrous. I know that Hali and Houston have cooled off since then a bit....but still.
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I know a little bit about pass rushing since I used to play on the line. Obviously I never played near this guys level but I do notice technique, especially when I go to the games and get a good look at how our trench guys try to beat their man. From the very beginning of the season I wasn't seeing stellar stuff from kruger. I didn't really notice him when he played in Blt so I don't know what he was doing differently there if at all. But here his pass rush is anemic. He's an "awesome" bull rusher. The first couple games of the season he had all kinds of tackles pushed back into the qb. Problem was that the qb's were able to get rid of the ball way too quick. Ok, so you can say he sets the timer low...so the ability of the qb's to make completions in 2-3 seconds can't really be put on the pass rush..that's on our secondary and LB'ers. What I saw though was that when he tried to anything else other than bullrushing, he was "terrible". His edge rush was so bad at the beginning of the season that the tackles could just basically take that play off and lean on him right out off the edge. It didn't require alot of effort. By about the 4th or 5th game the O line coaches were on to Kruger and the tackles just stuck their butts out behind em and that stifled his bullrush. He absolutely cannot keep tackles honest on that now. They sit on the bullrush and if he goes outside it's with so little leverage that they're not worried about it. When Kruger does get around the edge now he went out too wide. He doesn't dig in "whatsoever". When I talk about digging in, I'm talking about what Matthews does out in GB. He's one of the best in the NFL at carving off the edge. He goes horizontal when he's coming around the corner, this reduces the angle to the qb. And Matthews is faster but smaller than Kruger so he should be the one taking the wider arcs to the QB. Not the 6'5 275lb monster. Kruger should be way better at that which would make his bullrush that much better. Matthews is one of the best bullrushing OLB'ers in the league because tackles have to respect his outside rush. I want Kruger to work out here but so far, I dunno. He's cleaned up his run support for sure, it will be interesting to see where he's rated at the end of the year when those rankings come out. I don't think I ever saw him get sealed inside the whole season but I could be wrong.
In the end though we didn't pay 8m for a guy just to stop the run. He needs to be "at least" a 10 sack guy for that money. Honestly he should be getting 15 sacks easy with his physical abilities. It is possible though that if our secondary gets better next year, which it should....that the qb's will have to hold the ball a split second longer and that allows our outside guys to get home. It would be interesting to compare tape with say, the KC pass rush. If the qb's take the same amount of time on average to get rid of the ball against KC as they do with Cleveland, than there really is no excuse for the fact that the 240lb undersized rookie is leading the LB'ers in sacks. When we played KC, their two outside guys combined had 20 sacks and our whole defense had 19. That was just ludicrous. I know that Hali and Houston have cooled off since then a bit....but still.
I know a little bit about pass rushing since I used to play on the line. Obviously I never played near this guys level but I do notice technique, especially when I go to the games and get a good look at how our trench guys try to beat their man. From the very beginning of the season I wasn't seeing stellar stuff from kruger. I didn't really notice him when he played in Blt so I don't know what he was doing differently there if at all. But here his pass rush is anemic. He's an "awesome" bull rusher. The first couple games of the season he had all kinds of tackles pushed back into the qb. Problem was that the qb's were able to get rid of the ball way too quick. Ok, so you can say he sets the timer low...so the ability of the qb's to make completions in 2-3 seconds can't really be put on the pass rush..that's on our secondary and LB'ers. What I saw though was that when he tried to anything else other than bullrushing, he was "terrible". His edge rush was so bad at the beginning of the season that the tackles could just basically take that play off and lean on him right out off the edge. It didn't require alot of effort. By about the 4th or 5th game the O line coaches were on to Kruger and the tackles just stuck their butts out behind em and that stifled his bullrush. He absolutely cannot keep tackles honest on that now. They sit on the bullrush and if he goes outside it's with so little leverage that they're not worried about it. When Kruger does get around the edge now he went out too wide. He doesn't dig in "whatsoever". When I talk about digging in, I'm talking about what Matthews does out in GB. He's one of the best in the NFL at carving off the edge. He goes horizontal when he's coming around the corner, this reduces the angle to the qb. And Matthews is faster but smaller than Kruger so he should be the one taking the wider arcs to the QB. Not the 6'5 275lb monster. Kruger should be way better at that which would make his bullrush that much better. Matthews is one of the best bullrushing OLB'ers in the league because tackles have to respect his outside rush. I want Kruger to work out here but so far, I dunno. He's cleaned up his run support for sure, it will be interesting to see where he's rated at the end of the year when those rankings come out. I don't think I ever saw him get sealed inside the whole season but I could be wrong.
In the end though we didn't pay 8m for a guy just to stop the run. He needs to be "at least" a 10 sack guy for that money. Honestly he should be getting 15 sacks easy with his physical abilities. It is possible though that if our secondary gets better next year, which it should....that the qb's will have to hold the ball a split second longer and that allows our outside guys to get home. It would be interesting to compare tape with say, the KC pass rush. If the qb's take the same amount of time on average to get rid of the ball against KC as they do with Cleveland, than there really is no excuse for the fact that the 240lb undersized rookie is leading the LB'ers in sacks. When we played KC, their two outside guys combined had 20 sacks and our whole defense had 19. That was just ludicrous. I know that Hali and Houston have cooled off since then a bit....but still.
Kruger played a fraction of the snaps there that he does here.
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If we just look at sack numbers, than yes, he has been a bit of a disappointment.
However, this is how I look at it...
He was a big name FA. I think almost anyone who had snagged him would have overpaid, it's what happens. But he's been a big reason on why our run stoppage has been so great all year.
I've read that Horton's system is fairly complicated so it may be a problem of Kruger, and the whole defense for that matter, to fully have it all sink in. Though, that should have happened by now.
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I think it might be with Ray system.... ? I would say that he is getting picked in the blocking scheme by the offense but that is not the case as the other guys would be getting pressure on the QB.
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He has only been a disappointment based on what your expectationsof him are.
What I've seen is a guy who consistently disrupts the pocket, and makes QBs have to get the ball out quicker. If you're looking for sack numbers... they won't be there b/c he is our only threat, outside of our front 3, to get to the QB. Sheard has played very pedestrian all season. I like him as a run-stopper and he plays the position well, but he does not get pressure from a 2-point stance. If we can stop the run with Mingo starting opposite Kruger, you'll see both of them get more sacks. Not to mention, DQJ is not a great pass-rusher from the ILB position, and Robertson has been very average this year as well. As they stand now, our entire front 7 is good, but they are not spectacular... So as I said, if Mingo can start full-time next year and we can get an ILB who is solid in coverage and has speed/strength to provide pressure, Kruger will continue to be a major piece of the puzzle and may get more sacks...
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That's the problem with free agency. If you want one you usually have to over pay. I would assume that lots of them haven't felt all that appreciated by the teams they're currently with so...
If, on the other hand, we had no idea how much any of the players are paid we'd think he was a damn good acquisition.
WSS
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I think it might be with Ray system.... ? I would say that he is getting picked in the blocking scheme by the offense but that is not the case as the other guys would be getting pressure on the QB.
I think it might be with Ray system.... ? I would say that he is getting picked in the blocking scheme by the offense but that is not the case as the other guys would be getting pressure on the QB.
no he hasn't, he's getting handled by the right tackles one on one. I've been watching for that and frankly none of our OLB'ers get chipped, it hasn't been necessary.
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He has only been a disappointment based on what your expectationsof him are.
What I've seen is a guy who consistently disrupts the pocket, and makes QBs have to get the ball out quicker. If you're looking for sack numbers... they won't be there b/c he is our only threat, outside of our front 3, to get to the QB. Sheard has played very pedestrian all season. I like him as a run-stopper and he plays the position well, but he does not get pressure from a 2-point stance. If we can stop the run with Mingo starting opposite Kruger, you'll see both of them get more sacks. Not to mention, DQJ is not a great pass-rusher from the ILB position, and Robertson has been very average this year as well. As they stand now, our entire front 7 is good, but they are not spectacular... So as I said, if Mingo can start full-time next year and we can get an ILB who is solid in coverage and has speed/strength to provide pressure, Kruger will continue to be a major piece of the puzzle and may get more sacks...
He has only been a disappointment based on what your expectationsof him are.
What I've seen is a guy who consistently disrupts the pocket, and makes QBs have to get the ball out quicker. If you're looking for sack numbers... they won't be there b/c he is our only threat, outside of our front 3, to get to the QB. Sheard has played very pedestrian all season. I like him as a run-stopper and he plays the position well, but he does not get pressure from a 2-point stance. If we can stop the run with Mingo starting opposite Kruger, you'll see both of them get more sacks. Not to mention, DQJ is not a great pass-rusher from the ILB position, and Robertson has been very average this year as well. As they stand now, our entire front 7 is good, but they are not spectacular... So as I said, if Mingo can start full-time next year and we can get an ILB who is solid in coverage and has speed/strength to provide pressure, Kruger will continue to be a major piece of the puzzle and may get more sacks...
Kruger and Sheard have the same amount of sacks so I don't know where you think Kruger has been far and away a better pass rusher. Just eyeballing the two of them Sheard absolutely has the better pass rushing skillset to beat tackles. He can bullrush pretty well, not quite as good as kruger, but all his outside and inside moves are quite obviously better than Krugers. Sheard is a polished pass rusher, you can see it in the hands and in his leverage. SImply put both would have more sacks if we could cover people past 2.5 seconds. But neither has required the offenses to use a RB to chip them.
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I know a little bit about pass rushing since I used to play on the line. Obviously I never played near this guys level but I do notice technique, especially when I go to the games and get a good look at how our trench guys try to beat their man. From the very beginning of the season I wasn't seeing stellar stuff from kruger. I didn't really notice him when he played in Blt so I don't know what he was doing differently there if at all. But here his pass rush is anemic. He's an "awesome" bull rusher. The first couple games of the season he had all kinds of tackles pushed back into the qb. Problem was that the qb's were able to get rid of the ball way too quick. Ok, so you can say he sets the timer low...so the ability of the qb's to make completions in 2-3 seconds can't really be put on the pass rush..that's on our secondary and LB'ers. What I saw though was that when he tried to anything else other than bullrushing, he was "terrible". His edge rush was so bad at the beginning of the season that the tackles could just basically take that play off and lean on him right out off the edge. It didn't require alot of effort. By about the 4th or 5th game the O line coaches were on to Kruger and the tackles just stuck their butts out behind em and that stifled his bullrush. He absolutely cannot keep tackles honest on that now. They sit on the bullrush and if he goes outside it's with so little leverage that they're not worried about it. When Kruger does get around the edge now he went out too wide. He doesn't dig in "whatsoever". When I talk about digging in, I'm talking about what Matthews does out in GB. He's one of the best in the NFL at carving off the edge. He goes horizontal when he's coming around the corner, this reduces the angle to the qb. And Matthews is faster but smaller than Kruger so he should be the one taking the wider arcs to the QB. Not the 6'5 275lb monster. Kruger should be way better at that which would make his bullrush that much better. Matthews is one of the best bullrushing OLB'ers in the league because tackles have to respect his outside rush. I want Kruger to work out here but so far, I dunno. He's cleaned up his run support for sure, it will be interesting to see where he's rated at the end of the year when those rankings come out. I don't think I ever saw him get sealed inside the whole season but I could be wrong.
In the end though we didn't pay 8m for a guy just to stop the run. He needs to be "at least" a 10 sack guy for that money. Honestly he should be getting 15 sacks easy with his physical abilities. It is possible though that if our secondary gets better next year, which it should....that the qb's will have to hold the ball a split second longer and that allows our outside guys to get home. It would be interesting to compare tape with say, the KC pass rush. If the qb's take the same amount of time on average to get rid of the ball against KC as they do with Cleveland, than there really is no excuse for the fact that the 240lb undersized rookie is leading the LB'ers in sacks. When we played KC, their two outside guys combined had 20 sacks and our whole defense had 19. That was just ludicrous. I know that Hali and Houston have cooled off since then a bit....but still.
Kruger played a fraction of the snaps there that he does here.
I have stated before that I think veteran presence is a chunk of Kruger's value... much like Scott Fujita brought to our prior 3-4.
Kruger played a fraction of the snaps there that he does here.
I think Krug also benefited from significant inside pressure generated by the BLT blitz and Mr Ngata. Big Phil has his pass rush moments, but not that many.
He has only been a disappointment based on what your expectationsof him are.
What I've seen is a guy who consistently disrupts the pocket, and makes QBs have to get the ball out quicker.
Axiomatic... yet I agree.
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I have stated before that I think veteran presence is a chunk of Kruger's value... much like Scott Fujita brought to our prior 3-4.
Kruger played a fraction of the snaps there that he does here.
I think Krug also benefited from significant inside pressure generated by the BLT blitz and Mr Ngata. Big Phil has his pass rush moments, but not that many.
He has only been a disappointment based on what your expectationsof him are.
What I've seen is a guy who consistently disrupts the pocket, and makes QBs have to get the ball out quicker.
Axiomatic... yet I agree.
I have stated before that I think veteran presence is a chunk of Kruger's value... much like Scott Fujita brought to our prior 3-4.
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The games I've been to I sit about 6 rows up right behind the bench, if there's one guy who seems to be the one rallying the defense around it's Phil. I don't think Kruger has much pull with the guys, at least from what I see on the sidelines. The one guy who's usually talking to Kruger is Horton.
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36 total tackles ranks 385th
4.5 sacks ranks 65th
-13 sack yards ranks 183rd
6 QB Hurries ranks 60th
Not to bad for $13 million
Jabaal Sheard leads the team in QB hurries with 10 despite missing 3 games and generally sharing his spot with Mingo. Hell even Mingo has more QB hurries than Kruger.
Lucky for Kruger he got to face a crap RT in Svitek last week or his stats would be absolute crap. IMO he hasn't been a disappointment though because he wasn't that good to begin with. Like I said when we signed him he had half of a good season in four years and a good part of it was against crap teams with rookies and nobodies at RT.
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36 total tackles ranks 385th
4.5 sacks ranks 65th
-13 sack yards ranks 183rd
6 QB Hurries ranks 60th
Not to bad for $13 million
Jabaal Sheard leads the team in QB hurries with 10 despite missing 3 games and generally sharing his spot with Mingo. Hell even Mingo has more QB hurries than Kruger.
Lucky for Kruger he got to face a crap RT in Svitek last week or his stats would be absolute crap. IMO he hasn't been a disappointment though because he wasn't that good to begin with. Like I said when we signed him he had half of a good season in four years and a good part of it was against crap teams with rookies and nobodies at RT.
36 total tackles ranks 385th
4.5 sacks ranks 65th
-13 sack yards ranks 183rd
6 QB Hurries ranks 60th
Not to bad for $13 million
Jabaal Sheard leads the team in QB hurries with 10 despite missing 3 games and generally sharing his spot with Mingo. Hell even Mingo has more QB hurries than Kruger.
Lucky for Kruger he got to face a crap RT in Svitek last week or his stats would be absolute crap. IMO he hasn't been a disappointment though because he wasn't that good to begin with. Like I said when we signed him he had half of a good season in four years and a good part of it was against crap teams with rookies and nobodies at RT.
oh that's right I forgot he was up against the 2nd stringer for NE. I was thinking to myself watching the game that we seem to be getting to Brady pretty good, especially on that right side which is where Kruger's usually coming from. Wow, so we're paying 8m a year for a guy who gets home pretty good against the 2nd string. Not a bad investment eh?
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Kruger does things that are incalcuable but very helpful. He pushes the pocket with his bull rush. He's not as bad in pass coverage as people make him out to be, but he still isn't good. He's a lesser tier starter, in that regard. He's around every play, he's just not quite making them.
I said from the beginning he wouldn't be the exceptional pass rusher we where led to believe. If he was, Ozzie wouldn't have let him go.
We have a rotational crew, each with their own strengths and weaknesses. They're all talented enough to play for most teams in the league, though.
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The Browns need to find a way to field these guys at the same time:
Rubin
Taylor
Clowney
Sheard
Jackson
Mingo
Kruger
That is an all-star cast that WILL destroy an offense. Add in Ward, Haden, Skrine, and a stellar FS and we're Golden on Defense.
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